Hi Folks,
i wonder if there has ever been a final solution of how it works. We already had the topic and acc. to the RAW it only influences awakened if they are IN the field of BC. But the part "This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character" (Runners Companion, page 116) confused me a lot. It implements, that it also hinders magic, if you try to influence something within the field from the outside. Unfortunetely it is not further specified and also the explanation in Arsenal about Cyborgs and Cyberzombies uses the same words.
So maybe a dev mentioned some clarification in an unofficial or official errata, or in a other dicussion?
Please give me a short overview what is canon right at the moment.
Thank you.
Full Version: Astral Hazing - final statement
If you are inside casting at all, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something inside, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something outside, and BC is between you, it does not affect you.
Any other questions?
If you are outside, targeting something inside, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something outside, and BC is between you, it does not affect you.
Any other questions?
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 21 2014, 11:34 PM) 
If you are outside, targeting something outside, and BC is between you, it does not affect you.
What if you are using a flamethrower spell at force 4 or less and it is reduced to 0 by the field does it still come out the other side?
QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Apr 21 2014, 07:35 AM)
What if you are using a flamethrower spell at force 4 or less and it is reduced to 0 by the field does it still come out the other side?
Depends. You could say "Yes" and still scare the beejeezus out of your players with it, or you can say "no" if you want to have the astral hazing be an obvious effect.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 21 2014, 07:34 AM)
If you are inside casting at all, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something inside, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something outside, and BC is between you, it does not affect you.
Any other questions?
If you are outside, targeting something inside, it affects you.
If you are outside, targeting something outside, and BC is between you, it does not affect you.
Any other questions?
This seems odd. Haven't spells always been described as traveling through astral space directly to the target - thus, passing through the BC? What if this BC was enough to reduce Force to zero, would the spell continue out through the other side and bounce back to full strength?
The game doesn't care about traversing BC at all. It cares about affects being cast inside of it, whether that means the caster is inside or the effect will be inside.
If you want a fluff example, however:
Indirect Combat spells create a real effect through magic. The fire from the Flamethrower is real fire, and real fire is not affected by Hazing. All other magic deals with the manafield at the target point of the spell, so you're not dealing with any mana from the BC anyways.
If you want a fluff example, however:
Indirect Combat spells create a real effect through magic. The fire from the Flamethrower is real fire, and real fire is not affected by Hazing. All other magic deals with the manafield at the target point of the spell, so you're not dealing with any mana from the BC anyways.
Per the rules, Combat spells are unaffected by BGC.
EDIT: Or what Neraph said - Confounded Ninja.
EDIT: Or what Neraph said - Confounded Ninja.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 21 2014, 10:18 AM)
The game doesn't care about traversing BC at all. It cares about affects being cast inside of it, whether that means the caster is inside or the effect will be inside.
If you want a fluff example, however:
Indirect Combat spells create a real effect through magic. The fire from the Flamethrower is real fire, and real fire is not affected by Hazing. All other magic deals with the manafield at the target point of the spell, so you're not dealing with any mana from the BC anyways.
If you want a fluff example, however:
Indirect Combat spells create a real effect through magic. The fire from the Flamethrower is real fire, and real fire is not affected by Hazing. All other magic deals with the manafield at the target point of the spell, so you're not dealing with any mana from the BC anyways.
Which makes you wonder how a spell can be intercepted by astral combat. The fact you can 'get in the way of' a spell with a held action seems to imply the spell must pass between the caster and the target.
QUOTE (Bigity @ Apr 21 2014, 07:37 AM)
Which makes you wonder how a spell can be intercepted by astral combat. The fact you can 'get in the way of' a spell with a held action seems to imply the spell must pass between the caster and the target.
Where is that rule? I don't recall seeing that in 4th edition, though I do recall being able to pull off such shenanigans in previous editions.
May not exist in 4th.
"This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character" is the key, because the previous rules dealt with background counts that were within areas rather than centered on an individual. Casting a spell at a cyberzombie is the same as casting a spell at someone within an area with a background count. The only difference is that with astral hazing, sometimes you can zap the person right next to the one with astral hazing without suffering the effects of background count.
Spells do not fizzle in a background count, but the mage still suffers the usual dual-whammy for using spells in a background count - Magic is reduced, and spell Force is increased for Drain purposes, both at the rating of the background count. A mage with magic: 5 casting a Force: 5 manabolt at a changeling with astral hazing would be -4 dice for the spellcasting roll, and would resist Drain as if it were a Force: 9 spell. It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
Pre-exising spells and foci would not be affected unless the mage entered the range of the astral hazing, likewise adepts and spirits. Most changeling PCs with this ability tend to be fractional-Essence street samurai, so you are usually okay unless you touch them. I am unsure how to deal with physical effects such as critical strike - the adept could lose that power, or have it reduced, but it would be right at the point of impact, which might be too late for the astral hazing to really affect it. This would be another GM call.
Spells do not fizzle in a background count, but the mage still suffers the usual dual-whammy for using spells in a background count - Magic is reduced, and spell Force is increased for Drain purposes, both at the rating of the background count. A mage with magic: 5 casting a Force: 5 manabolt at a changeling with astral hazing would be -4 dice for the spellcasting roll, and would resist Drain as if it were a Force: 9 spell. It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
Pre-exising spells and foci would not be affected unless the mage entered the range of the astral hazing, likewise adepts and spirits. Most changeling PCs with this ability tend to be fractional-Essence street samurai, so you are usually okay unless you touch them. I am unsure how to deal with physical effects such as critical strike - the adept could lose that power, or have it reduced, but it would be right at the point of impact, which might be too late for the astral hazing to really affect it. This would be another GM call.
Is that your houserule or an official solution for the bad description?
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 21 2014, 07:26 PM)
Magic is reduced, and spell Force is increased for Drain purposes
It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
It's not a GM call, you just typed out the rule in exact words that are very clear cut. I have underlined them.
QUOTE (Bigity @ Apr 21 2014, 03:39 PM)
May not exist in 4th.
Does not.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 21 2014, 07:26 PM)
"This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character" is the key, because the previous rules dealt with background counts that were within areas rather than centered on an individual. Casting a spell at a cyberzombie is the same as casting a spell at someone within an area with a background count. The only difference is that with astral hazing, sometimes you can zap the person right next to the one with astral hazing without suffering the effects of background count.
Spells do not fizzle in a background count, but the mage still suffers the usual dual-whammy for using spells in a background count - Magic is reduced, and spell Force is increased for Drain purposes, both at the rating of the background count. A mage with magic: 5 casting a Force: 5 manabolt at a changeling with astral hazing would be -4 dice for the spellcasting roll, and would resist Drain as if it were a Force: 9 spell. It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
Pre-exising spells and foci would not be affected unless the mage entered the range of the astral hazing, likewise adepts and spirits. Most changeling PCs with this ability tend to be fractional-Essence street samurai, so you are usually okay unless you touch them. I am unsure how to deal with physical effects such as critical strike - the adept could lose that power, or have it reduced, but it would be right at the point of impact, which might be too late for the astral hazing to really affect it. This would be another GM call.
Spells do not fizzle in a background count, but the mage still suffers the usual dual-whammy for using spells in a background count - Magic is reduced, and spell Force is increased for Drain purposes, both at the rating of the background count. A mage with magic: 5 casting a Force: 5 manabolt at a changeling with astral hazing would be -4 dice for the spellcasting roll, and would resist Drain as if it were a Force: 9 spell. It is unclear what happens if this would result in a spell being higher Force than the mage could normally overcast. I would assume that the spell would still go off, since the spell Force is only increased for the purposes of determining Drain. It's a GM call.
Pre-exising spells and foci would not be affected unless the mage entered the range of the astral hazing, likewise adepts and spirits. Most changeling PCs with this ability tend to be fractional-Essence street samurai, so you are usually okay unless you touch them. I am unsure how to deal with physical effects such as critical strike - the adept could lose that power, or have it reduced, but it would be right at the point of impact, which might be too late for the astral hazing to really affect it. This would be another GM call.
Actually, you don't lose dice for the Spellcasting Test - your Magic is affected. So in your example the mage would be at Magic 1, only able to Overcast to Force 2 spells, and the effective Force of a F2 spell is F6 for Drain Value.
As for the Adept: their Magic is reduced as well, reducing the Powers they have available. Whether the GM decides which are lost or the Player does will decide on the table and GM.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 22 2014, 10:11 AM)
Does not.
You can't attack spells in astral space anymore? Gah I'm glad I never played SR4/A. It takes away alot of my favorite moves.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 22 2014, 09:11 AM)
Actually, you don't lose dice for the Spellcasting Test - your Magic is affected. So in your example the mage would be at Magic 1, only able to Overcast to Force 2 spells, and the effective Force of a F2 spell is F6 for Drain Value.
Magic is part of the spellcasting test. A Magic reduced from 5 to 1 means 4 less dice to roll.
Which is great. ^^ I asked Patrick Goodman for his view on the problem and whatever he tells me, will be our house-rule. If it is not positive enough, i will skip astral hazing once and for all.
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 23 2014, 03:48 AM)
If it is not positive enough, i will skip astral hazing once and for all.
You know Astral Hazing is a FLAW, right?
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 23 2014, 03:09 AM)
Magic is part of the spellcasting test. A Magic reduced from 5 to 1 means 4 less dice to roll.
Right, but a Magic being reduced from a 5 to a 1 means it redefines the Force of spells able to be cast, in addition to reducing dice on the Test.
EDIT:
Street Magic, page 118, Backround Count and Magic, first paragraph, first sentence
QUOTE
Whether positive or negative, in game terms backround count reduces a character's Magic attribute by its absolute value.
Emphasis mine.
Any Magician/Mystic Adept/Adept I built in SR4A was built with the Expectation of a Rating 2 Background Count. Do it that way and you will never be surprised. Build the character to be able to function/survive in a Background count and you will never be useless. 
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 23 2014, 02:08 PM)
You know Astral Hazing is a FLAW, right?
Depends from which side of the medal you look at it. Of course it is a flaw, because you hinder your teammates massively, you destroy wards wherever you roam and i also donīt think that it stays undetected if you pass one (this would be arguable). If you are awakened, you massively hinder yourself...all this speaks for a flaw. But on the other side, you are quite good protected from spells (arguable), you are definitely protected from spirits and if you have the balls, you are the close-combat-horror for every awakened oponent. So I would say, i pay the price and take the best out of it.
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 23 2014, 07:43 AM)
Depends from which side of the medal you look at it. Of course it is a flaw, because you hinder your teammates massively, you destroy wards wherever you roam and i also donīt think that it stays undetected if you pass one (this would be arguable). If you are awakened, you massively hinder yourself...all this speaks for a flaw. But on the other side, you are quite good protected from spells (arguable), you are definitely protected from spirits and if you have the balls, you are the close-combat-horror for every awakened oponent. So I would say, i pay the price and take the best out of it.
And don't forget that you leave a path of astral corruption wherever you roam, and if you actually rest, you pollute the astral around you in an ever widening sphere. You are likely hunted, on the one hand to end your existence due to the astral pollution you leave behind, and on the other because you could potentially be a source of interesting research. AND, you are likely a beacon for every Twisted and Corrupt Spirit out there, many of whom might want to use you for their own ends. It is not a Flaw for the faint of heart.
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 23 2014, 08:43 AM)
Depends from which side of the medal you look at it.
I look at it from the side of "It's listed under Negative Qualities."
Ah, that is too easy. I look at it from the side "how can i get the highest benefit out of stuff that everybody else sees as a drawback". ^^ So the GM will grant me the flaw because he thinks i willingly f**ck myself (so that he doesnīt have to) and then he realizes that i actually f**ed him instead. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA....!!!
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 23 2014, 08:09 AM)
I look at it from the side of "It's listed under Negative Qualities."
There is NO DOUBT that Astral Hazing is a Negative Quality. But sometimes, even the darkest cloud has a silver lining.
It really is no Different than a Mage casting Mana Static (or Aspected Mana Static) and then using it against their enemies.
Correctly...and you donīt even have to sustain it. ^^
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 23 2014, 09:05 AM)
Correctly...and you donīt even have to sustain it. ^^
Problem is that you cannot Turn [Astral Hazing] Off either.
Yeah...donīt tell it to my GM. 
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 23 2014, 05:11 AM)
Right, but a Magic being reduced from a 5 to a 1 means it redefines the Force of spells able to be cast, in addition to reducing dice on the Test.
Yeah, that's the part where I am a bit fuzzy on how background count on an individual works. Because the mage, not standing in background count to start with, assuming a Magic of 5 as in my first example, will, for example, pick a spell of Force: 5 to cast. So what happens when he aims it at someone with astral hazing? Does it fizzle out completely, because a Force: 5 spell is not possible? Does the mage get to pick a new force of 1 or 2 for the spell, to account for his reduced Magic rating? Or does the Force: 5 spell go off, just with a -4 penalty and the Drain of a Force: 9 spell? I guess the first or second options are closer to RAW.
My group decided that if the mage is NOT in any background count himself, he casts as normal, and the force of the spell is reduced by 4. Same as if the mage had summoned a spirit and thrown the spirit at the guy.
For some kinds of spells (e.g. Flamethrower) this has no effect.
Anyway, that was us and not supported by RAW.
For some kinds of spells (e.g. Flamethrower) this has no effect.
Anyway, that was us and not supported by RAW.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 23 2014, 08:49 AM)
And don't forget that you leave a path of astral corruption wherever you roam,
This is not supported in the rules.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 23 2014, 08:44 PM)
Yeah, that's the part where I am a bit fuzzy on how background count on an individual works. Because the mage, not standing in background count to start with, assuming a Magic of 5 as in my first example, will, for example, pick a spell of Force: 5 to cast. So what happens when he aims it at someone with astral hazing? Does it fizzle out completely, because a Force: 5 spell is not possible? Does the mage get to pick a new force of 1 or 2 for the spell, to account for his reduced Magic rating? Or does the Force: 5 spell go off, just with a -4 penalty and the Drain of a Force: 9 spell? I guess the first or second options are closer to RAW.
He can't choose Force 5 because while he's in BC his Magic is now a 1. Shooting into it you deal with the effects on the spell and not on his Magic rating since he was never in the BC, only the spell effect was (which would mean the Force is reduced but increased for Drain - in the F5 example it would hit as a F1 but Drain as a F9).
As an aside: I know how to make Astral Hazing a not-negative quality, and I know how to operate with it and still pull off a Magic rating higher than most characters regardless. But Such Things are usually not mentioned.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 24 2014, 11:32 AM)
This is not supported in the rules.
He can't choose Force 5 because while he's in BC his Magic is now a 1. Shooting into it you deal with the effects on the spell and not on his Magic rating since he was never in the BC, only the spell effect was (which would mean the Force is reduced but increased for Drain - in the F5 example it would hit as a F1 but Drain as a F9).
As an aside: I know how to make Astral Hazing a not-negative quality, and I know how to operate with it and still pull off a Magic rating higher than most characters regardless. But Such Things are usually not mentioned.
He can't choose Force 5 because while he's in BC his Magic is now a 1. Shooting into it you deal with the effects on the spell and not on his Magic rating since he was never in the BC, only the spell effect was (which would mean the Force is reduced but increased for Drain - in the F5 example it would hit as a F1 but Drain as a F9).
As an aside: I know how to make Astral Hazing a not-negative quality, and I know how to operate with it and still pull off a Magic rating higher than most characters regardless. But Such Things are usually not mentioned.
It is not explicitly stated in the RAW. But the Background Count rule read as a whole do imply that the trail of astral corruption can happen.
Now, you'll leave a trail of broken wards, but if the BC extends Essence Meters from me and I move then the BC is no longer where I once was - it is now treated as a BC 0 location.
If you can track BC through BC 0 areas then you should be equally able to track any Awakened creature simply by virtue of its passing (without the Search power, that is) or there should be specific tracking rules listed in order to account for that (similar to the Search power, for example).
If you can track BC through BC 0 areas then you should be equally able to track any Awakened creature simply by virtue of its passing (without the Search power, that is) or there should be specific tracking rules listed in order to account for that (similar to the Search power, for example).
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 24 2014, 11:39 AM)
Now, you'll leave a trail of broken wards, but if the BC extends Essence Meters from me and I move then the BC is no longer where I once was - it is now treated as a BC 0 location.
If you can track BC through BC 0 areas then you should be equally able to track any Awakened creature simply by virtue of its passing (without the Search power, that is) or there should be specific tracking rules listed in order to account for that (similar to the Search power, for example).
If you can track BC through BC 0 areas then you should be equally able to track any Awakened creature simply by virtue of its passing (without the Search power, that is) or there should be specific tracking rules listed in order to account for that (similar to the Search power, for example).
IIRC (because I am AFB) areas with Background Count can spawn breakaway pieces of Background Count, although the implication was that such new BC is temporary and/or lower in intensity.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 23 2014, 08:32 PM)
He can't choose Force 5 because while he's in BC his Magic is now a 1. Shooting into it you deal with the effects on the spell and not on his Magic rating since he was never in the BC, only the spell effect was (which would mean the Force is reduced but increased for Drain - in the F5 example it would hit as a F1 but Drain as a F9).
As an aside: I know how to make Astral Hazing a not-negative quality, and I know how to operate with it and still pull off a Magic rating higher than most characters regardless. But Such Things are usually not mentioned.
As an aside: I know how to make Astral Hazing a not-negative quality, and I know how to operate with it and still pull off a Magic rating higher than most characters regardless. But Such Things are usually not mentioned.
Put your Infected out of its Misery, Neraph. The world will be a better place (because he cannot infect anyone else).
Is here somebody into infected? I hope the cool ones, not the sparkeling...somethings...bah.
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 24 2014, 09:07 AM)
Is here somebody into infected? I hope the cool ones, not the sparkeling...somethings...bah.
Shadowrun Vampires are sparkly. Just cast Alleviate Allergy. Tada.
I thought Nosferatur were sparkly. Just forget casting Alleviate Allergy...poof.^^
4A, I built a ballet dancer with the infected quality twice, because it was supported, to some degree, by the descriptions of the infected qualities and fluff (nobody can be immune to all 3 strains, I had 2). She hated augmentation, but due to her infection and the meddling of jealous coworkers, she was infected and, as a procedure, was given a cyberarm with a nano-hive and immune boosting nanites. She had a high body score (physically fit and ate well) and a decent edge score.
She was intended as an assassin of sorts; sort of the classical Black Widow archetype (and NOTHING to do with the Marvel Superheroes).
She was intended as an assassin of sorts; sort of the classical Black Widow archetype (and NOTHING to do with the Marvel Superheroes).
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 24 2014, 09:02 AM)
Put your Infected out of its Misery, Neraph. The world will be a better place (because he cannot infect anyone else).
What do you mean he can't infect anyone else? He's not Infertile Infected.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 24 2014, 11:00 AM)
What do you mean he can't infect anyone else? He's not Infertile Infected.
Can't infect something when he is dead...
That's funny.
The part where you think you could kill him, I mean.
The part where you think you could kill him, I mean.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 24 2014, 01:05 PM)
That's funny.
The part where you think you could kill him, I mean.
The part where you think you could kill him, I mean.
Everything is killable - Thor shot ought to do it with no reservations. No soaking for the Thor Shot, Just Dead.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 24 2014, 03:53 PM)
Everything is killable - Thor shot ought to do it with no reservations. So soaking for the Thor Shot, Just Dead.
True.
Gotta target him first though. Which means you have to ID him. Which means you have to be within Influence/Compulsion range. Which means "who, me? Nah, we're cool, brah."
EDIT: You know what? I'll give it to you. If you can ID him as Infected, and if you're able to retain your sanity and free will after ID-ing him, and if you're able to get targeting data for him, and if you're able to hit him with a Thor shot through multiple magical protections that he normally has up then yes, he'd die by virtue of the "if it hits target is dead" weapon.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 24 2014, 09:44 PM)
True.
Gotta target him first though. Which means you have to ID him. Which means you have to be within Influence/Compulsion range. Which means "who, me? Nah, we're cool, brah."
EDIT: You know what? I'll give it to you. If you can ID him as Infected, and if you're able to retain your sanity and free will after ID-ing him, and if you're able to get targeting data for him, and if you're able to hit him with a Thor shot through multiple magical protections that he normally has up then yes, he'd die by virtue of the "if it hits target is dead" weapon.
Gotta target him first though. Which means you have to ID him. Which means you have to be within Influence/Compulsion range. Which means "who, me? Nah, we're cool, brah."
EDIT: You know what? I'll give it to you. If you can ID him as Infected, and if you're able to retain your sanity and free will after ID-ing him, and if you're able to get targeting data for him, and if you're able to hit him with a Thor shot through multiple magical protections that he normally has up then yes, he'd die by virtue of the "if it hits target is dead" weapon.
Didn't you know? Sam the Thor Shot Operator is also a technomancer, and can do all of that from the safety of nowhere near you? That's why we're not allowed to have him as a contact, TJ!!
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 25 2014, 10:44 AM)
True.
Gotta target him first though. Which means you have to ID him. Which means you have to be within Influence/Compulsion range. Which means "who, me? Nah, we're cool, brah."
EDIT: You know what? I'll give it to you. If you can ID him as Infected, and if you're able to retain your sanity and free will after ID-ing him, and if you're able to get targeting data for him, and if you're able to hit him with a Thor shot through multiple magical protections that he normally has up then yes, he'd die by virtue of the "if it hits target is dead" weapon.
Gotta target him first though. Which means you have to ID him. Which means you have to be within Influence/Compulsion range. Which means "who, me? Nah, we're cool, brah."
EDIT: You know what? I'll give it to you. If you can ID him as Infected, and if you're able to retain your sanity and free will after ID-ing him, and if you're able to get targeting data for him, and if you're able to hit him with a Thor shot through multiple magical protections that he normally has up then yes, he'd die by virtue of the "if it hits target is dead" weapon.
If he is Awakened, it may be possible to have the Divination metamagic.
"Hmmm, my vampire balls hurt. It means a Thor shot is incoming to this location. Time to go."
QUOTE (Rubic @ Apr 24 2014, 08:20 PM)
Didn't you know? Sam the Thor Shot Operator is also a technomancer, and can do all of that from the safety of nowhere near you? That's why we're not allowed to have him as a contact, TJ!!
That sucks... got any other suggestions for a Technomancer contact?
QUOTE (toturi @ Apr 24 2014, 10:56 PM)
"Hmmm, my vampire balls hurt. It means a Thor shot is incoming to this location. Time to go."
I have to admit reading the second line first and momentarily wondering why they were quoting from a Vamp Porno Trid.
QUOTE (Rubic @ Apr 24 2014, 09:20 PM)
Didn't you know? Sam the Thor Shot Operator is also a technomancer, and can do all of that from the safety of nowhere near you? That's why we're not allowed to have him as a contact, TJ!!
Thor shot operator still needs a target, which means someone, somewhere still needs to positively ID the target. That's my point. The character I made is so covert that he has not been ID'd except by what the team he 'runs with has inferred, and they wouldn't try to pull one over on them because they see what he does to their opposition and they know he's restrained when he does even that.
Fear goes a long ways towards keeping people on your side.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 25 2014, 10:08 AM)
Thor shot operator still needs a target, which means someone, somewhere still needs to positively ID the target. That's my point. The character I made is so covert that he has not been ID'd except by what the team he 'runs with has inferred, and they wouldn't try to pull one over on them because they see what he does to their opposition and they know he's restrained when he does even that.
Fear goes a long ways towards keeping people on your side.
Fear goes a long ways towards keeping people on your side.
Always beware the unseen Intelligence Agent. He will generally have your number.
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