The point still stands: you need to suspect him first. Then you need to ID him. Then you need to target him. Then you need to hit.

Too many variables, especially concerning the way he is played. Theoretically possible, but not likely concerning the actual character in question.

can't believe nobody said it yet:
Astral Hazing:
What all magic groups put their new members through to prove they are worthy of being allowed into their Fraternity.

Yep - And it sucks royally.

If I was using a biological agent to call in coordinates for a Thor shot on an infected that can co-opt others I would be more concerned about said biological being compromised and sending the shot astray.

Which is why you should always say it with Drones if push comes to shove.

Although sometimes it's better to find a mutually beneficial arrangement for both sides and avoid those costly fights.

Always beware Divination. A really good diviner has already fore-seen your "unseen" Intelligence Agent.

Has he forseen all contingencies? I doubt it...

Do not doubt. He has foreseen all contingencies that will adversely affect him severely.

I'm inclined to believe that while you may not leave a consistent trail of a Rating 4 'Astral Haze' Domain of 'eff you awakened' everywhere you go, unless you're constantly scrubbing your astral you're going to leave something behind as you go, and more so when you stop moving. Astral Hazing is a negative quality, through and through.

think of it this way:
4 is only one point more than, if even that, what you will get on a good rock concert.
rating 1 will be found everywhere in every last single point of any city on the planet.
and probably outside of the cities as well.
if it isn't cleansed on a regular basis at least.
rating 2 will be created by murder, rating 3 by a particularly gruesome one for example.
but things like that are not all that creates bgc. hope,love,, happyness, SEX all do it too.
if the emotions are strong enough/often enough repeated/shared by enough people.
technically, almost no awakened activity can be found in the seattle subway system.
because most awakened don't have the full magic attribute, but only 2 to 4 points in it.
and the BGC is strong enough anywhere to hamper them and strong enough very often to completely shut them down.

now, ask yourself one question:
how often have we seen this in game, used by a GM?
if you say "not at all, because that'd be mean to all these awakened snobs being played", then that's probably true for about 80to 90% of the people playing.
and in the same sentence, everybody complains about how there's electronic surveilance out to get every last weapon and piece of cyberware on any non awakaned character.

No. The Hazing itself looks like that but there is absolutely nothing about leaving a trail, otherwise there would be some sort of rule for a gradual BC ebbing while you're moving.

Besides a wonderfully emphatic no, how else are you supporting that? And if we're going on what it doesn't say in RC, what else does Astral Hazing's domain not do? There's a lot that isn't mentioned there.

I'm assuming you're expecting something akin to the cyberzombie astral hazing entry to support 'ebbing'. There's at least one option that you haven't covered if so. That it does not ebb.

And here is where it gets fun because they came up with a bad ass 'power', granted a bit of a negative one, but didn't really follow through on its effects in the long term.

If you stay in the area for a few hours that BC you are generating expands by 1 meter in all directions (pg 116 Runner Comp) so when you leave that said area it doesn't specify how fast that extra zone you created outside of your aura dissipates at if at all. So again we have RAW not following through. I would just let it fade at the same rate it built at so after a few hours it would reduce by 1 meter again and so on until it clears, but I suppose one could argue it might always have a minimal BC, but this will quickly lead to all sorts of headaches and added bookkeeping tracking who went where and for how long.

OFTEN... SO Often, in fact, that I routinely build Awakwened characters to be able to deal with a Rating 2 BGC as a matter of course.

Background count and the everpresent surveillance society are both things that, if over-emphasized, make the game all but unplayable.

Looking at the sidebar on page 121 of Street Magic, even a rating: 1 background count should be either a significant act of high emotion (mass shooting, tragic love affair, etc.) or regular magical or spiritual significance. Rating: 2 was the rock concert example, but it was a sold-out concert of a legendary artist - in other words, Woodstock, not the latest Miley Cyrus concert.

i said a good rock concert for a reason <.<

Well, considering that there are absolutely not rules supporting the fact that you leave a massive trail of astral debris behind you, I'd say that pretty much answers it. In a game of rules you are only allowed to do what it explicitly tells you, and tracking someone from an astral trail of destruction from Astral Hazing is not one of those things. It also actually goes against the rules: it specifically states that the Hazing extends a certain distance from the origin. There is absolutely no mention of a blur, stain, or streak. If it is around me and I move 500 feet north then the Hazing is now 500 feet north and no longer where I was previously, with no rules whatsoever to state that somehow there would be some smear on the astral landscape.

EDIT: The best analogy I'd have is a windstorm. Your character is in the heart of a windstorm. Any structures weak enough to be destroyed (wards, Anchored spells, spirits) would be destroyed by your passing, but when you pass the surrounding environment shows no permanent stain of its passage. You can infer its passage through a debris field, but not because of any inherent change it makes to the environment (as would an oil spill).

I see it the same way. Of course the GM can abstact the detachment of areas of BC if he wants to, but the GM can do what he want anyway. So what?^^

Really? You have never seen passing damage to the environment from a windstorm, easy enough to track if you had the skillset? Odd, I see it all the time here in Denver. *shrug*

Cough.

Of course, the wind itself isn't there any more, but something happened...

Yes, but only since every blade of grass and every tree is the equivalent of a ward or anchored spell.

Try tracking a windstorm on tarmac.

Street Magic, p. 55, under the Cleansing metamagic (emphasis added):

"An area’s natural background count will reassert itself (minus temporary traces) after (Initiate grade) hours. For cleansing of background count to be permanent, the cause or phenomenon behind it must first be removed. Cleansing the astral space in a toxic waste dump is futile until the waste itself is removed. Cleansing also proves ineffective on well-established and powerful background counts (such as those at Hiroshima, Stonehenge, or even an old community church). Whether a particular background can be cleansed or not is left to the individual gamemaster."

So, not the most obvious of places to have rules about background counts, but it works to establish fundamental metaphysics that would cover such a situation as the source of the Hazing having moved.

No, because that's dealing with reducing the BC of a specific area, not the BC of an area fading over time or even if it does fade over time. This would only be appropriate if someone tried to Cleanse the Astral Hazing directly - it has nothing to do with someone with Astral Hazing taking a taxi across the city.

Which adds another question - can someone attempt to cleanse your astral hazing? Would it even work?

I don't see how it DOESN'T apply; it indicates the natural process of an area to re-align its own background count.

Now, granted, you may consider the Astral Hazing to be an area aligned to Toxic traditions. So, you could choose Astral Hazing and a Toxic Shaman to benefit from the harmful BC. This also means you've got a default bounty on your head (courtesy of the Draco Foundation), and just because somebody else is ALSO a Toxic Shaman doesn't mean they're Toxic in a complimentary way. They'd be just as likely to kill you as to hire you, and you're just going to be using each other at that point. Frankly, I wouldn't allow that for player characters, and might implement it as a special-case NPC adversary.

Even if we do take that line under Cleansing to be the mechanics on the process of an area realigning to its natural BC, then all it takes is 0 hours to realign to the natural BC since there is no Cleansing involved and thus no initiate or initiate grade and thus it is a moot point.

Ok then, what's the Initate Grade of an ambient BC? That's why it doesn't apply - the mechanic you quoted requires the Initiate Grade of the mage who starts the process in order to function.

4 hours, is my opinion... Imposed Rating 4 BGC realigning at 1 point per Hour, assuming that you move outside the area of corruption, of course. Maybe a House Rule, but a good one in my opinion. It is a NEGATIVE quality after all.

It is classified as something called a Negative Quality. It does not really have to be negative.

Fundamental Difference in Philosophy, Toturi, so we are not likely to agree on that.

BTW, I think that there is a more convincing precedent for your case. But evidently you are not using that line of argument.

Then put it out there. Mayhaps I already thought about it but it has gotten lost in the posts that I HAVE responded to. I am always willing to see a good argument. Because if there is Precedent, you omitting it is tantamount to misdirection.

Great House Rule. Just make sure you know you don't have any RAW to back you up on it.

That remains to be seen - Toturi, Self-Proclaimed Bookninja RAW-FU Master, says there is precedent to my interpretation... Though he has yet to provide it. In the absence of such, that is how we run it, to my memory. We RARELY have anyone take it anymore unless it is strictly for RP purposes/reasons, since it is so harsh.

I am not sure, but i think Toturi might be getting BGC and Spell After Effects mixed up . .
A Spell of Force 4 leaves an Astral Footprint that holds for Force Hours and slowly dissipates by one force per hour.

I see absolutely No Difference in effect between Astral Hazing and the Spell Aspected Mana Static.

...

You mean you don't notice the difference between a spell, which is listed in one particular part of the rulebook, and backround count, which is listed in a very different part of a rulebook, and which was introduced in a splatbook and not included in the core rulebook?

There really is no helping you then.

EDIT: Much less a spell that doesn't exist in print, to my knowledge?

I think Aspected Mana Static was published by the Germans.


If you want to quote my signature, please have the courtesy to do so accurately.

Mana static. You accuse me of misdirection in one post but mention a closely related spell in another post less than half an hour later. I am unsure if you are deliberately being insulting or not.

He had an extra word in there...

Mana Static (Environmental, Area)

This area-effect spell creates a background count of 1 for
every hit scored by the caster. As with normal background
count, the mana static impedes magical activities (see p. 117).
Once the spell is made permanent, the background count
from this spell recedes at a rate of 1 point per hour. Mana
Static affects everyone, including the caster.

Ah, right, i actually forgot about the mana static spells . .

You would be wrong. I have the spell in my Hardback copy of Street Magic.
AS for the Differences, there are none. You have Astral Corruption from both, they impact you heavily (though if you are Aspected to the Spell you get a boost - isn't that what you are arguing for?). And the effects are Almost Identical, since, you know, the spell gives you a BGC. shrug*

No, the spell does not give YOU a background count.
It creates one at a place of your choice.
Of course, in the case of the aspected one, it'd be stupid to create it somewhere away from your position . .

Not deliberately so, no. I have brought up the Mana Static Spells in the past, and you ignored their similarities to Astral Hazing. They are the basis for our current handling of Astral Hazing.

AS for your Signature - Was not available when I posted (I looked) and I did not take the time to copy/paste it after the fact. Sorry. It got the gist across though.

Are you in the Astral Hazing? They you are impacted, and sadly, you cannot even get out of it, since it is YOU, and not the area.
SO, HOW are you Geomancing YOURSELF with Astral Hazing if that Metamagic only deals with Areas, and not Things?

By the way...




Last I checked, Astral Hazing wasn't "ambient."

Bam.

Because the rules don't actually state that it deals with physical locations, just areas of BC. Even then, your physical body is by definition a physical location - one that can change geographical location.


If you're going to hinge your whole argument on the word "ambient" you truly are desperate.

A Person is NOT an Area.

Deja Vu...

What if your Mama is so big she has her own zip code?

That might mean she exudes her own personal manasphere, which means if you kept her alive in outer space magicians might be able to cast spells around her.

Just sayin'.

Heh, course with my luck she also has a ongoing flatulence problem or as they like to call it Gastral Hazing which is trapped around her thanks to the gravity she generates.


Your Mama so big, spacecraft pilots say "That's no Moon, It's your Mama!"

I've based arguments on less.

"His" actually.