Full Version: Dumpshock... What happened?
I have an intact 1st Edition SR core book... Which impresses the hell out of me as I own several 3rd edition core books because they fall apart.
QUOTE (Smash @ Dec 16 2014, 03:33 AM) 
Here, the most vocal are determined to make any conversation about 5th Ed a war.
Seriously, where is this edition war everybody keeps talking about? I must have missed it...
QUOTE (Sengir @ Dec 16 2014, 11:26 AM)
Seriously, where is this edition war everybody keeps talking about? I must have missed it...
More of a Police Action, really...
QUOTE (Cain @ Dec 16 2014, 04:48 AM)
I'm going to repeat this suggestion in the other thread, but here's an idea: RPG.net has the + or - system for thread titles. If you want to just discuss the positive aspects of something, put a [+] in the thread title. Everyone knows that's what you want, and any negative discussion is a derail. On the flip side, a [-] thread is to discuss problems, and trying to say that there aren't any is a derail for that thread.
Honestly, I think all that might end up doing is having glurge and rant threads that further divide the community.
Though with the state of SR and cyberpunk in general these days, it might be a moot point.
QUOTE (tisoz @ Dec 16 2014, 02:31 AM)
I think I agree with most of what you said, but this kind of leaped out at me. Has any Edition had good binding? My 1st Ed softcover had a few pages coming loose, even though I probably only had it a month or 2 before 2nd Ed came out. I forget what 2nd Ed were notorious for bad binding, but the core softcover had pages coming loose, but maybe just because it got heavy use.
You have a point, but at the same time, the list price of the book has also gone up substantially.
Even in relation to other products, Sr5 is spendy. D&D 5e's core books go for $50, Pathfinder stuff runs between $40-50, and some are a lot less. Savage Worlds Explorer Edition is a full color core book, and goes for $10. I'm sitting in my FLGS as we speak, and a quick search of the shelves reveals only one game in the $60 range, other than Shadowrun.
Now $60 isn't unheard of, but it is at the high end, and people typically expect more from a more expensive product. FASA glue in an expensive book is not acceptable. I mean, I know some people shelled out for the leatherbound special editions, how would they feel if pages started falling out?
More tellingly, the SR5 core's up on Amazon from resellers at as low as $35 already. Rather suggests it isn't moving any kind of volume.
http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Fifth-Jaso...rds=shadowrun+5
http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Fifth-Jaso...rds=shadowrun+5
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Dec 16 2014, 06:09 PM)
More tellingly, the SR5 core's up on Amazon from resellers at as low as $35 already. Rather suggests it isn't moving any kind of volume.
http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Fifth-Jaso...rds=shadowrun+5
http://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-Fifth-Jaso...rds=shadowrun+5
By that logic D&D 5th must be a spectacular failure since its on Amazon for 40% off.
Yeah, that's a pretty normal discount for Amazon.
I think Bertramn probably came the closest to putting his finger on what is causing Dumpshock to slow down. New users have another forum competing for their attention, and old users have already hashed out most of their old arguments (and can't muster up much enthusiasm for the new edition). It might be a bit soon to write Dumpshock off, though. The forum has gone through periods of time where the posting is slow as molasses, then picked up again later.
I think Bertramn probably came the closest to putting his finger on what is causing Dumpshock to slow down. New users have another forum competing for their attention, and old users have already hashed out most of their old arguments (and can't muster up much enthusiasm for the new edition). It might be a bit soon to write Dumpshock off, though. The forum has gone through periods of time where the posting is slow as molasses, then picked up again later.
Wait for the next splat book to be released. I'm sure there'll be some pickup in posting 'round here. But then we're likely to see the same styled trash talking with the last two.
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Dec 16 2014, 09:17 PM)
Wait for the next splat book to be released. I'm sure there'll be some pickup in posting 'round here. But then we're likely to see the same styled trash talking with the last two.
Hey, we might not! It might be well edited and not introduce more unplaytested rule systems that someone here will break within fifteen minutes!
I for one will gladly accept to have been wrong if that comes to be true, binarywraith. Hope you'll pardon that I don't wait with bated breath for us to find out.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 16 2014, 06:28 PM)
Yeah, that's a pretty normal discount for Amazon.
I think Bertramn probably came the closest to putting his finger on what is causing Dumpshock to slow down. New users have another forum competing for their attention, and old users have already hashed out most of their old arguments (and can't muster up much enthusiasm for the new edition). It might be a bit soon to write Dumpshock off, though. The forum has gone through periods of time where the posting is slow as molasses, then picked up again later.
I think Bertramn probably came the closest to putting his finger on what is causing Dumpshock to slow down. New users have another forum competing for their attention, and old users have already hashed out most of their old arguments (and can't muster up much enthusiasm for the new edition). It might be a bit soon to write Dumpshock off, though. The forum has gone through periods of time where the posting is slow as molasses, then picked up again later.
Multiple forums, actually. In addition to the official one, there's the subreddit, and then there's a bunch of general RPG sites that also cover Shadowrun.
That's why I think we need to focus on what we do best: be the fan resource for Shadowrun. That's how Dumpshock got so big in the first place. We were never the official Shadowrun forums, but for most of 2e, all of 3e, and well into 4.5, we were the "unofficial official" forum. Heck, we're even listed as a resource in several books. Fans who went onto become freelancers started here, and even used Dumpshock posters as name drops. (I'm a shadowtalker in Target: Matrix, as are a few other Dumpshockers.)
So, maybe we can start up a new archive. Send out the word, we're collecting stories and ideas for all editions of Shadowrun, from across the net. I'll even try to resurrect the CLUE files, there's a ton of stories out there. My HTML skills aren't up to date, so I can't do much for a webpage, but I can read and edit still.
So, mods... would you be willing to host fan pages, and let them use the dumpshock domain name?
It really would be nice.
I've found the Shadowrun Supplemental a nice ressource to the game, by the way.
I've found the Shadowrun Supplemental a nice ressource to the game, by the way.
The community is too old. What's to talk about? Are we going to have the same argument about SINs or how society works in the 6th world? We all talked about that a million times several years ago. Are we going to talk about rules? Most of us don't give a flying fuck about 5th edition and those that do are on the other forums.
Dumpshock is a bunch of old married couples sitting around staring at each other in awkward silence after all the children have moved out and they realize they have nothing in common anymore until time finally pulls the plug.
Dumpshock is a bunch of old married couples sitting around staring at each other in awkward silence after all the children have moved out and they realize they have nothing in common anymore until time finally pulls the plug.
I only come to DS when I want something nitpicked apart and I have my longcoat FFBA full milspec armor w/ Chem Seal & Fire Resist 6 on.
When my friends ask for SR forum suggestions I always mention DS, but I always have to give them a disclaimer. You folks are smart cookies and often have great to excellent ideas, but you're merciless. It feels actively hostile when I come here, because it seems like my entire SR outlook is anathema and will be destroyed appropriately. So I carefully pick my battles, as it were. More often, I just don't post.
Yes, there's some hyperbole there. But when I don't feel like I have my A game, I don't come here. It's not worth it.
Not to pick on apple here, but:
This pretty much highlights what I mean. In one simple sentence, everyone who likes SR5 has been generally insulted, along with the freelancers working on it.* I prefer to think that apple is expressing a personal dislike of SR5 here, but the phrasing leaves doubt and other similar posts by others are more of the same. This... is not welcoming. Just insulting. The near-Godwin doesn't help. Honestly apple, I really hope that wasn't your intent.
* - Don't get me wrong, SR5 has some serious flaws, but dude!
What keeps me coming back is between the crap and insults, you lot are brilliant both individually and collectively. That's a resource I'm not going to forsake or steer people away from. If nothing else, the arguments help settle SR questions that I have floating around and haven't quite come to a decision on.
At the same time, I don't consider DS friendly anymore. I did once upon a time; long before I officially joined and when I still lurked anonymously.
-Temperance
When my friends ask for SR forum suggestions I always mention DS, but I always have to give them a disclaimer. You folks are smart cookies and often have great to excellent ideas, but you're merciless. It feels actively hostile when I come here, because it seems like my entire SR outlook is anathema and will be destroyed appropriately. So I carefully pick my battles, as it were. More often, I just don't post.
Yes, there's some hyperbole there. But when I don't feel like I have my A game, I don't come here. It's not worth it.
Not to pick on apple here, but:
QUOTE (apple @ Dec 13 2014, 02:06 PM)
"Arbeit macht frei"-Authors and SR5 happened, thats all. We are all sad to see SR going down the toilet.
This pretty much highlights what I mean. In one simple sentence, everyone who likes SR5 has been generally insulted, along with the freelancers working on it.* I prefer to think that apple is expressing a personal dislike of SR5 here, but the phrasing leaves doubt and other similar posts by others are more of the same. This... is not welcoming. Just insulting. The near-Godwin doesn't help. Honestly apple, I really hope that wasn't your intent.
* - Don't get me wrong, SR5 has some serious flaws, but dude!
What keeps me coming back is between the crap and insults, you lot are brilliant both individually and collectively. That's a resource I'm not going to forsake or steer people away from. If nothing else, the arguments help settle SR questions that I have floating around and haven't quite come to a decision on.
At the same time, I don't consider DS friendly anymore. I did once upon a time; long before I officially joined and when I still lurked anonymously.
-Temperance
QUOTE (Temperance @ Dec 18 2014, 09:27 PM)
. In one simple sentence, everyone who likes SR5 has been generally insulted, along with the freelancers working on it.
People are not required to like what you like, and it is not an insult to believe that a product put out by a company and intended for purchase is subpar.
QUOTE (Temperance @ Dec 18 2014, 07:27 PM)
This pretty much highlights what I mean. In one simple sentence, everyone who likes SR5 has been generally insulted, along with the freelancers working on it.* I prefer to think that apple is expressing a personal dislike of SR5 here, but the phrasing leaves doubt and other similar posts by others are more of the same. This... is not welcoming. Just insulting. The near-Godwin doesn't help. Honestly apple, I really hope that wasn't your intent.
* - Don't get me wrong, SR5 has some serious flaws, but dude!
* - Don't get me wrong, SR5 has some serious flaws, but dude!
No, really. They published that. They put it out there as a product that we were intended to buy and play. Godwin isn't a defense when they literally want you to send PCs to slaughter dead Jews again.
Frank's quote on the matter pretty much sums it up : "One of the adventure seeds involves running around murdering the ghosts of Jews who were murdered in the holocaust so that you can get to the bottom of the dungeon and get your hands on magic Nazi items that the Jews won't let you have."
Even better, here is what they actually published :
QUOTE
WORK BRINGS FREEDOM
Oświęcim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years.
Oświęcim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known
of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust,
1.1 million people died within its walls. is led it to become one
of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and
sizes dwelled within, frightening out or murdering all residents of
Oświęcim. Because of the sheer magnitude of the haunting, a great
number of other things found home there.
For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a
treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year,
an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers,
charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer,
one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts.
With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate
to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove
to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation
to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.
The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town
inhabited by the angry and hungry dead. ey don’t take kindly
to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Many
are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless
villagers. The real problem comes from the concentration camps
proper. The three main campuses are surrounded by about
fifty smaller camps. Each of the smaller camps is a hotbed of
supernatural activity, but nothing compared to the magnitude of
the central collective.
In particular, Auschwitz II is remarkable. It was the source
of the vast majority of deaths—it’s what most people think of
when referencing Auschwitz. It’s nightmare made flesh, almost a
living organism unto itself. e halls audibly scream and cry, the
ghosts beg for release so much that most people couldn’t even hear
themselves speak. For your average runner, Auschwitz II is suicide.
Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip. But such a
trip can result in great rewards (see the Flesh finder, below).
Oświęcim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years.
Oświęcim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known
of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust,
1.1 million people died within its walls. is led it to become one
of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and
sizes dwelled within, frightening out or murdering all residents of
Oświęcim. Because of the sheer magnitude of the haunting, a great
number of other things found home there.
For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a
treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year,
an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers,
charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer,
one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts.
With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate
to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove
to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation
to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.
The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town
inhabited by the angry and hungry dead. ey don’t take kindly
to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Many
are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless
villagers. The real problem comes from the concentration camps
proper. The three main campuses are surrounded by about
fifty smaller camps. Each of the smaller camps is a hotbed of
supernatural activity, but nothing compared to the magnitude of
the central collective.
In particular, Auschwitz II is remarkable. It was the source
of the vast majority of deaths—it’s what most people think of
when referencing Auschwitz. It’s nightmare made flesh, almost a
living organism unto itself. e halls audibly scream and cry, the
ghosts beg for release so much that most people couldn’t even hear
themselves speak. For your average runner, Auschwitz II is suicide.
Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip. But such a
trip can result in great rewards (see the Flesh finder, below).
Oh, but it gets even better, here's the item!
QUOTE
THE FLESHFINDER
Deep within the bowels of Auschwitz II during WWII,
Dr. Eduard Wirths conducted and supervised thousands of
odd experiments on the human body. He tested mustard gas on
innocents. He mutilated twins. He held people in tanks of ice
water for hours or until dead. He exposed prisoners to malaria. He
forced them to drink seawater. One particular implement from his
experiments, a rusted old scalpel, was left in the labs. Over many
years, it was energized by the various ghosts passing by it, feeding
on their death energies. At this point, it’s taken on a life of its own.
The rusty old scalpel craves death. It only finds itself at home
when flush with warm blood. Although this makes it a remarkably
e ffective weapon, anyone holding it is subject to the sounds of its
past victims. As a function of this, when the weapon is in hand,
the character is considered distracted and suffers a –4 dice pool
modi fier to all Perception Tests. If she attempts to Observe in
Detail as a Simple Action, she only su ffers a –2 dice pool modi fier.
Reach: 0, Damage: (Str/2+4)P, AP: –2, Availability: N/A
(unique item), Market Value: 10,000¥
Deep within the bowels of Auschwitz II during WWII,
Dr. Eduard Wirths conducted and supervised thousands of
odd experiments on the human body. He tested mustard gas on
innocents. He mutilated twins. He held people in tanks of ice
water for hours or until dead. He exposed prisoners to malaria. He
forced them to drink seawater. One particular implement from his
experiments, a rusted old scalpel, was left in the labs. Over many
years, it was energized by the various ghosts passing by it, feeding
on their death energies. At this point, it’s taken on a life of its own.
The rusty old scalpel craves death. It only finds itself at home
when flush with warm blood. Although this makes it a remarkably
e ffective weapon, anyone holding it is subject to the sounds of its
past victims. As a function of this, when the weapon is in hand,
the character is considered distracted and suffers a –4 dice pool
modi fier to all Perception Tests. If she attempts to Observe in
Detail as a Simple Action, she only su ffers a –2 dice pool modi fier.
Reach: 0, Damage: (Str/2+4)P, AP: –2, Availability: N/A
(unique item), Market Value: 10,000¥
Note that absolutely nothing about how magic works in Shadowrun would even make this item possible. It's not a weapon focus. It just somehow apparently picked up a bunch of random magic from ghosts and is implied to have an intelligence of its own.
Seriously, SR's current trends get a lot of flack here, but it is for very, very good reasons when they publish this sort of dreck.
QUOTE (Shev @ Dec 18 2014, 07:59 PM)
People are not required to like what you like, and it is not an insult to believe that a product put out by a company and intended for purchase is subpar.
No, but I see his point. Bring critical is not a crime, but if you do so, at least give good reasons for it.
For example, I don't like the writing quality of some of the current freelancers. But I'm not going to bash anyone in particular, since I don't know who wrote what. If anyone is interested in my critique, I'll give it; but otherwise, we can just call it dissatisfaction.
QUOTE (Cain @ Dec 19 2014, 02:40 AM)
No, but I see his point. Bring critical is not a crime, but if you do so, at least give good reasons for it.
For example, I don't like the writing quality of some of the current freelancers. But I'm not going to bash anyone in particular, since I don't know who wrote what. If anyone is interested in my critique, I'll give it; but otherwise, we can just call it dissatisfaction.
For example, I don't like the writing quality of some of the current freelancers. But I'm not going to bash anyone in particular, since I don't know who wrote what. If anyone is interested in my critique, I'll give it; but otherwise, we can just call it dissatisfaction.
I haven't really seen any DSers that are shy about telling why they don't like something.
Has there been a lot of ire directed at specific freelancers for stuff that can't be attributed to them? I could have missed that, I suppose, but I haven't seen anything of that nature around.
QUOTE (Shev @ Dec 18 2014, 11:04 PM)
I haven't really seen any DSers that are shy about telling why they don't like something.
In the part you quoted, apple didn't list any reason for why he didn't like SR5. Now, the quote may be out of context, but the point is that if you want to criticize, you should give a reason for it.
I haven't directly gone after any freelancers, although I have been overly broad in some of my criticisms. As a writer, I personally would be extremely embarrassed to turn in any work with as many typos and errors as we find in some of the published works. Yes, we proofreaders are supposed to help with that, as are the editors. But proofreaders have been ignored a lot recently, and frankly, proofreaders are supposed to be a final line of defense against typos, not the first to make corrections.
I know that stance will piss off a lot of proofreaders, but I'm not making an unsubstantiated claim. Thanks to a comedy of errors, we all get to see what their rough work looks like.
I did not know about that Auschwitz adventure.
What in all holy hell...
What in all holy hell...
And then they were too afraid to actually use the name Mengele and instead made the scalpell belong to somebody who was a clerk.
It should have been a ink pen or something, that would have made more sense and also have offered more hooks to play around with.
If you want to play by killing dead jews in auschwitz again.
Oh, and don't forget about poisoning gypsi wells that they published as well . .
It should have been a ink pen or something, that would have made more sense and also have offered more hooks to play around with.
If you want to play by killing dead jews in auschwitz again.
Oh, and don't forget about poisoning gypsi wells that they published as well . .
QUOTE (Temperance @ Dec 18 2014, 08:27 PM)
In one simple sentence, everyone who likes SR5 has been generally insulted, along with the freelancers working on it.* I prefer to think that apple is expressing a personal dislike of SR5 here, but the phrasing leaves doubt and other similar posts by others are more of the same. This... is not welcoming. Just insulting. The near-Godwin doesn't help. Honestly apple, I really hope that wasn't your intent.
You do realize that the current SR5 crew (at least Jason Hardy) brought out WAR! in SR4, where there was an adventure called "Work brings freedom" which had Ausschwitz as a target?
You do realize that "Work brings freedom" is English for the German "Arbeit macht frei" which was the entrance moto of the Ausschwitz concentration camp?
You do realize that one of the goals was to find the necromantic scalpels of the Nazi tortures/scientists there?
So I am terribly not sorry to disappoint you: it was my full intention to call Jason Hardy and the responsible SR4/5 authors "Arbeit macht frei"-Authors because that is the clusterfuck they wrote!
SYL
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Dec 19 2014, 01:38 AM)
Note that absolutely nothing about how magic works in Shadowrun would even make this item possible. It's not a weapon focus. It just somehow apparently picked up a bunch of random magic from ghosts and is implied to have an intelligence of its own.
Seriously, SR's current trends get a lot of flack here, but it is for very, very good reasons when they publish this sort of dreck.
It was interesting the route they went with the scalpel as it basically was a Pattern Item in Earthdawn terms, which raises even more grey areas as does this mean as the mana continues to rise will there be a SR edition that will have ED style mojo as a regular thing?Seriously, SR's current trends get a lot of flack here, but it is for very, very good reasons when they publish this sort of dreck.
QUOTE (Cain @ Dec 19 2014, 02:54 AM)
In the part you quoted, apple didn't list any reason for why he didn't like SR5. Now, the quote may be out of context, but the point is that if you want to criticize, you should give a reason for it.
Because WAR! and the Ausschwitz adventure park presented there was already discussed to the death in different forums. I assumed that it was well known to what I referred.
And yes, it was this book and this "adventure seed" which, in my opinion, divided Shadowrun and the community forever.
During the presentation of SR5 i often listed what I don´t like on SR5. If you do not want to check my post history (or my post history on German forums), here are the main points: quality of proofreading, artwork, wifi online bonuses, going retro without thinking it through, cyberware/matrix prices, priority creation system, breaking of trolls and TMs, unbalancing mundate/magic, inconsistent copy/paste from SR4 (like giving ghots a physical perception skills while stating that they can only use astral sight), "only one attack action" without defining how are "attack" goes, loopholes like "use 2000 RFID Tags to conceal yourself in the matrix spam as being the best method to avoid matrix detection", the pregnancy rules (which for me personally go into the same direction and the WAR! Ausschwitz adventure park), all megacorps surrender their own security and nets to the new super-net without any backdoor or resistance, payment rules, payment suggestions, general skill level description .. just to name some major points. There are a lot other, but then again I have lots of negative points for SR234 and 4.5 as well.
You are not a stupid man, you know the arguments and the counter arguments and the counter-counter-arguments very well so there is no need to debate it further.
But yes, there are good things as well in SR5: mentor spirits for adepts working, 12 skill rating, (strength) base damage for melee and not (strength/2), the removal of the dreaded extended tests ...
SYL
QUOTE (apple @ Dec 19 2014, 03:31 PM)
And yes, it was this book and this "adventure seed" which, in my opinion, divided Shadowrun forever.
Divided where? A tiny few hopeless fanboys aside, the abhorrent failure of WAR is one of the few things the community (several freelancers included) agrees on.
Sure, but what happened after that? SR5 was in development and from this book on I feel there was a large schism in the Community, between people extremely sceptical and people waiting for new products (because they didn´t know or didnt care).
SYL
SYL
come to think of it
I agree with Apple
War! was the Book that started the divide between the Shadowrun Community
with an agreeing Dance
Medicineman
I agree with Apple
War! was the Book that started the divide between the Shadowrun Community
with an agreeing Dance
Medicineman
Yeah, SR4 i did not like, but Bogota! was the straw thar broke the camels back i guess . .
QUOTE (apple @ Dec 19 2014, 09:23 AM)
Sure, but what happened after that? SR5 was in development and from this book on I feel there was a large schism in the Community, between people extremely sceptical and people waiting for new products (because they didn´t know or didnt care).
It's true. Bogota!'s terrible flop primed people to be critical of SR5... and then SR5 fulfilled that promise by being shoddily edited and having a lot of elements of the same sort of poor consideration of consequences that led to Bogota! going to publication with that section in. This is, at the end of the day, why I lay the whole issue at Hardy's feet. He's the Line Developer. At the end of the day, this stuff is his responsibility.
And it could have been averted as well . .
The Previews? Yeah? Produce them and then release them and then use reactions to them AS ERRATA BEFORE RELEASING THE BOOK!
You do NOT make a Book like that and send it off to the Printers with that boat load of stupid in it!
The Previews? Yeah? Produce them and then release them and then use reactions to them AS ERRATA BEFORE RELEASING THE BOOK!
You do NOT make a Book like that and send it off to the Printers with that boat load of stupid in it!
Especially since, as you know, SR has a strong following in Germany. Pegasus couldn't even legally publish Bogota! there with that dreck in.
That's why I didn't know about that...
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Dec 19 2014, 02:57 PM)
Especially since, as you know, SR has a strong following in Germany. Pegasus couldn't even legally publish Bogota! there with that dreck in.
neither legally nor morally
And its a good thing that they erased those two "Adventure Seeds"
Hough!
Medicineman
QUOTE (Bertramn @ Dec 19 2014, 07:58 PM)
That's why I didn't know about that...
Yeah, quite a lot of Bulldrek does not make it across the Pond.
Why do you think so many people from the german boards are on this board here as well?
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 12:21 PM)
Why do you think so many people from the german boards are on this board here as well?
I always chalked it up to German Efficiency.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 08:21 PM)
Yeah, quite a lot of Bulldrek does not make it across the Pond.
Why do you think so many people from the german boards are on this board here as well?
Why do you think so many people from the german boards are on this board here as well?
Because this forum is were the action was. Now you tell me why quite a few posters are active here but not on German forums
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 03:21 PM)
Why do you think so many people from the german boards are on this board here as well?
Because I can
and because I like to have different perspectives on certain subjects/topics
QUOTE
I always chalked it up to German Efficiency.
or, maybe, curiosity ?
QUOTE
Now you tell me why quite a few posters are active here but not on German forums wink.gif
Because you don't have too many alternatives in Germany.
Oh ,btw, the SR-Nexus is active again
(The SR-Nexus is a German Shadowrun Forum , one of the longest existing and independant Forums....in a way the German counterpart to the Dumpschock forum)
He who dances in many a forum
Medicineman
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Dec 19 2014, 01:23 PM)
or, maybe, curiosity ?
He who dances in many a forum
Medicineman
He who dances in many a forum
Medicineman
You mean like a Cat? Isn't that Dangerous?
I'm not going in Hot ,
so it's less of a Prob
with a cold Dance
Medicineman
so it's less of a Prob
with a cold Dance
Medicineman
QUOTE (Ryu @ Dec 19 2014, 09:08 PM)
Because this forum is were the action was. Now you tell me why quite a few posters are active here but not on German forums
Because Germans learn english in school but english speaking countries don't learn german in school because we lost last century.
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein(i still hate having to type your name btw...)
A Cat has no natural enemies aside from other cats usually.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 09:57 PM)
Because Germans learn english in school but english speaking countries don't learn german in school because we lost last century.
Dem lack of commas is killing me softly!
Get back on topic, folks.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 01:57 PM)
Because Germans learn english in school but english speaking countries don't learn german in school because we lost last century.
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein(i still hate having to type your name btw...)
A Cat has no natural enemies aside from other cats usually.
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein(i still hate having to type your name btw...)
A Cat has no natural enemies aside from other cats usually.
German is hard... I cannot wrap my tongue around all those hard consonants and really, really long combination words.
TJ is fine.
Well, I guess that is true.
EDIT: Sorry Grinder, simultaneous postings.
So... What happened? I do think that more topics leads to more conversations and more traffic. sadly, there is not a dearth of SR5 stuff out yet, and I had all my SR3 stuff stolen, so I am only really able to comment knowledgeably on SR4/4A. In a year or two, that should be remedied, as CGL products (or fanmade stuff here on Dumpshock) make their way out into the general public. And while I am not a huge fan of SR5, it does have some interesting ideas in some places. So...
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 19 2014, 03:57 PM)
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein(i still hate having to type your name btw...)
He does answer to TJ or additionally Mr K during Office Hours. QUOTE (Sendaz @ Dec 19 2014, 05:08 PM)
He does answer to TJ or additionally Mr K during Office Hours.
But only if you have an Appointment.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Dec 19 2014, 10:44 AM)
It's true. Bogota!'s terrible flop primed people to be critical of SR5... and then SR5 fulfilled that promise by being shoddily edited and having a lot of elements of the same sort of poor consideration of consequences that led to Bogota! going to publication with that section in. This is, at the end of the day, why I lay the whole issue at Hardy's feet. He's the Line Developer. At the end of the day, this stuff is his responsibility.
To be honest, I don't think I was primed to dislike SR5. I really, really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, it wasn't just poor editing, it was the very premise of the rules, "everything has a price", which meant that they raised the overall power level, but then nerfed it with penalties that made the game frustrating and unfun. It's a shame - there are parts of the game, like Edge or the description for the regeneration power, where they cleaned up and clarified the old rules, making them a lot better. Unfortunately, there are also old exploitable rules ambiguities that have been left as they were (machine sprites, analyze device), and rules that have become unclear due to partial cut-and-paste jobs that leave important bits out. And there is a lot of stuff, like wireless bonuses and limits, that could have been exciting if they had been implemented better.
QUOTE
I really, really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, it wasn't just poor editing, it was the very premise of the rules, "everything has a price", which meant that they raised the overall power level, but then nerfed it with penalties that made the game frustrating and unfun
thats oh so much the same with me !
How much I was looking Forward to 5th Ed and how deep was the disappointment !!
But Grinder said Back to Topic ! OK
Even though I'm registered for quite a long Time, I've been active only a couple of Years.
It didn't catch my Eye that it's become "quiet" in the Dumpschock forum
with a loud Dance
Medicineman
I noticed the quiet, days passing where there were only a handful of posts. Honestly I had figured that there'd been enough rules talk about SR5 that there was next to nothing to talk about anymore. I recall an explosion of activity when the edition hit, but with the apparent winding pace of splat books and other game related material that isn't fiction, it seemed that there was less and less to question and talk about, again because it had already been covered to death.
I'm usually lurking around the SR5 threads because whatever games I run and the fiction I'm writing is all based in the early 2070's of SR4.
I'm usually lurking around the SR5 threads because whatever games I run and the fiction I'm writing is all based in the early 2070's of SR4.
Periods of infrequency are pretty common over the long term. I see trends here especially around holidays of everything going quiet. Usually in the summer time as well, which makes me hopeful that some of us lazy bastards are getting out and getting some sun. I'll pop into the mods forum and mention that we haven't had any arguments lately, and so on. This had been a little longer dry spell than usual. As has been pointed out it's a general lack of new topics.
For myself, my interest is in the metaplot and the expanding of the SR world. But we run our games with more or less continuity from one game to the next, and since I've played since ... shit 96 and we keep whatever other characters did as our setting, the plot has diverged a lot from the SR Standard. So it's hard for me to chime in. Most of the things I read I mentally compare to my game and immediately do a keep/dump. I'd expect most of us do that and I often wonder just how far off the "main story" most people are.
I mostly miss old familiar handles and wonder not so much the "where" people have gone as the "why". I expect most of it is simply life and changing priorities, but I wonder because of the other factors we can do something about here. We're discussing your thoughts behind the curtain.
For myself, my interest is in the metaplot and the expanding of the SR world. But we run our games with more or less continuity from one game to the next, and since I've played since ... shit 96 and we keep whatever other characters did as our setting, the plot has diverged a lot from the SR Standard. So it's hard for me to chime in. Most of the things I read I mentally compare to my game and immediately do a keep/dump. I'd expect most of us do that and I often wonder just how far off the "main story" most people are.
I mostly miss old familiar handles and wonder not so much the "where" people have gone as the "why". I expect most of it is simply life and changing priorities, but I wonder because of the other factors we can do something about here. We're discussing your thoughts behind the curtain.
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