DU lacing in lead casing in titanium casing: you get half the effects of titanium bone lacing, every serious wound you take has a chance of unleashing heavy metal into your blood, and your mass triples.
Sounds worse than a cortex bomb.
Full Version: What stats would you give depleted uranium lacing
wasn't NATO trying to shut down the use of DU shells for a little while because of the the radioactive dust it left around on battlefields afterwards? when a DU shell or bullet hits its target it actually causes a radioactive burn through the target, leaving minute amounts of radioactive ash. large amounts of bullets or shells left on the battlefield led to cancer in civilians after they reinhabited the areas. or am i pulling all this out of my ass?
The lead has to contact you,... once again seals/shielding. DU with a layer of lead (for shielding) coated in a layer of non-pourous plastic (for a seal) covered in a thin layer of kevlar (to protect the plastic) would work. Sorts of like coaxial cable.
On ceramic lacing,..
On ceramic lacing,..
| QUOTE |
| Simple. Take a CAT scan of the bones and create a mold from that. |
We're talking lacing, not plating. Plating requires removal of all meat/senew from the bones, lacing doesn't. Read what bone lacing is. Then come back, bye.
Raptor from what I read there was no burns from the properties of the DU itself been rather the dust was superheated from the arterilly, as would any material durable enough to withstand the heat for a short period of time. Think of it like sparks except hella lot smaller and hotter. As far as radioactivity I've heard of none, just the media hoping on the enviromentalist's bandwagon. If you ask people in Greepeace they'll tell you Army is firing ground core-rods to purposefully drive muslims from the region.
This has been a hot debate way before the rounds were ever used in combat. The usmil has declared them "safe" which I feel has done a little more testing then the naysayers in the media.
Am I going to run out and get DU fillings? No, but I think with proper usage it could be helpful. And I think its hella safer then getting guns in your eyes, mouth, finger and palm.
You don't get radiation burns from DU, you get contact burns. The stuff heats up. And again, it's the toxin level that really is so dangerous. The radiation is a factor, though not an intense one... the radiation is enough to cause damage if it gets past your skin, but at that point you'll die by the toxin before the radiation does very much. Still, there IS radiation from DU, and the effects are there, especially if some of the dust gets into your lungs, where you're not nearly as well shielded. I would hardly call the Military's judgement that DU rounds are safe a good proof... these are the same guys that proved the safety of agent orange, and denied the existance of gulf war syndrome. You don't trust the cigarette industry to give you statistics on cigarettes and cancer, do you? Then why would you trust the military, and the weapons industry, to give you statistics on DU? You need to trust third party sources that won't profit by one answer or the other, and most of those have stated that DU is poisonous to the landscape, and has nasty side effects.
Greenpeace, by the way, has claimed no such thing... while they, like the military, are biased, they profit less from the findings... it doesn't benefit them to go after people who are not doing actual damage. They're a slightly better source for information, but certainly not the best.
If you want Ceramic Lacing, I would assume it would be done via nanotechnology, with small nanomachines placing the ceramics in appropriate places. Somehow, you'd have to get the stuff into the body... but that's just as much an issue with titanium, isn't it? Really, I can't think of a way of getting titanium laced into the bones that wouldn't work, with some modifications, for advanced ceramics. And the most important thing is that once there, the ceramics would likely work better.
JaronK
Greenpeace, by the way, has claimed no such thing... while they, like the military, are biased, they profit less from the findings... it doesn't benefit them to go after people who are not doing actual damage. They're a slightly better source for information, but certainly not the best.
If you want Ceramic Lacing, I would assume it would be done via nanotechnology, with small nanomachines placing the ceramics in appropriate places. Somehow, you'd have to get the stuff into the body... but that's just as much an issue with titanium, isn't it? Really, I can't think of a way of getting titanium laced into the bones that wouldn't work, with some modifications, for advanced ceramics. And the most important thing is that once there, the ceramics would likely work better.
JaronK
Going back to one of the slightly more biologically (if not financially) feasable options, what effects would lacing bones with orichalcum have? As my copy of MitS is currently AWOL I can't remember he actual properties of the stuff, but I'd be inclined to treat it as not causing magic loss and perhaps even giving the charracter a Potency level (if s/he wasn't a magical threat, adding to the existing Potency if s/he was).
Any thoughts? Of coursethis is all entirely hypothetical (scheme, scheme, scheme...)
-JH.
Any thoughts? Of coursethis is all entirely hypothetical (scheme, scheme, scheme...)
-JH.
I'm not sure I'd trust orichalum in my body very much either, considering it has mercury in it.
Long story short, bone lacing isn't any good if your body can't handle the material being used. Just how do you lose essence from dermal plating, bone lacing and non-retractable cyber-weapons anyway?
| QUOTE (simonw2000) |
| Long story short, bone lacing isn't any good if your body can't handle the material being used. Just how do you lose essence from dermal plating, bone lacing and non-retractable cyber-weapons anyway? |
That would be game balance, then?
It's true - people I know with artificial hips have great difficulty in adjusting to the world and anyone approaching them automatically knows that they've got cyberware inside them and treats them differently...
Look at it this way - is there anybody who thinks that Kevin Warwick isn't a complete p*ick?
| QUOTE (cutter07) |
| Depleted uranium is depleted of radiation, hence the name. It can hold a very small amount but less then your TV/CRT gives off. Even then it could be shielded. |
The radiation from DU is a bare-skin threat, as you noted. Without even skin to shield the DU, your bone marrow and nearby muscles will be exposed to that radiation. Shielding it is going to take lacing fairly thick, at least for something that should be conformal with the bones.
| QUOTE |
| While you armchair radiologists are at it figure out you can ceramic lacing put on your bones considering its neither flexiable and requires intese heat from a kiln to make. |
1) Look into "fiberglass," or "Saffil." You can get alumina (sapphire) fibers that are as soft as down. The key to making ceramic flexible is to making it in fine fibers, or lacing.
2) No, you don't need a kiln to make ceramic. There's a variety of aquaeous and chemical deposition methods suitable for laying down ceramic coatings or fibers. Heck, bare aluminum metal forms a sheathing of sapphire and aluminum hydroxides just on exposure to room temperature air.
| QUOTE |
| once again seals/shielding. DU with a layer of lead (for shielding) coated in a layer of non-pourous plastic (for a seal) covered in a thin layer of kevlar (to protect the plastic) would work. Sorts of like coaxial cable. |
And then what do you have? A soft metal, only about on par with iron, who's claim to fame is density.
Why aren't you trying to recommend tungsten bonelacing, Cutter? It's denser than uranium, much harder, much stronger, and is non-radioactive. It probably has a heavy metal toxin risk, but a light plastic sealant will deal with that.
| QUOTE |
| wasn't NATO trying to shut down the use of DU shells for a little while because of the the radioactive dust it left around on battlefields afterwards? |
No, NATO was trying to avoid DU because of bad publicity. The dust wasn't a significant threat unless you're snorting it when it's formed. DU is primarily a problem when it gets into the body and stays there.
That's where comes in... rubber bone lacing.
You are attractive to kids when you play with them, you are perfect in bed, you can squeeze in small holes and bullets ricochet from you and you do not sink
Ehem. Now thread, RIP.
You are attractive to kids when you play with them, you are perfect in bed, you can squeeze in small holes and bullets ricochet from you and you do not sink
Ehem. Now thread, RIP.
| QUOTE (Cray74) |
| Why aren't you trying to recommend tungsten bonelacing, Cutter? It's denser than uranium, much harder, much stronger, and is non-radioactive. It probably has a heavy metal toxin risk, but a light plastic sealant will deal with that. |
I think it's because I came up with that idea early in this thread, and I cannot possibly have any idea what I'm talking about.
speaking of orichalcum, what happenes when it get into space? does it break down into its constituents? or is there barely enough mana in space for it to stay the way it is? just cause i'm mean, i'd say it breaks down, the metals seperate, and any enchantments on it are lost.
Magic is only required to manufacture orichalcum, and that's only because it contains mercury. Once created, the alloy is stable and non-magical.
| QUOTE (cutter07) |
| Its all about refinement. You wouldn't trust homemade Penicillin or single pass distilled alcohol either ( I hope). But whatever. People will talk out of thier asses all day about subjects they don't know without taking the time to read. |
I'd trust alcohol that's only been distilled once. Distillation removes water, and I could always use more of that.
Sorry, I know it's totally unrelated to the thread, but since I brew wine and have been wanting to set up my own still for a while, I had to comment.
| QUOTE (Traks) |
| That's where comes in... rubber bone lacing. You are attractive to kids when you play with them, you are perfect in bed, you can squeeze in small holes and bullets ricochet from you and you do not sink |
You forgot the most important part! Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!
It only sticks to you if you've got glue lacing.
JaronK
JaronK
| QUOTE (cutter07) |
| The lead has to contact you,... once again seals/shielding. DU with a layer of lead (for shielding) coated in a layer of non-pourous plastic (for a seal) covered in a thin layer of kevlar (to protect the plastic) would work. Sorts of like coaxial cable. and palm. |
Which leads to this question:
What's the point? Why do something this overly complicated and next-to-impossible?
So ummm... no one has any ideas for any other materials that could be used as lacing? Ones that are actually fesable?
How about Carbon fibre or bucky-tubes? those are several hundred times stronger than steel, incredibly flexible and would have minimal impact on out body.
[DELETED]
Ceramic Lacing => Lightwieght, strong, immune to MAD scanners, difficult to insert
Carbon Fiber Lacing => Lightweight, flexible, immune to MAD scanners
Graphite Lacing => ?
Titanium Nickle Alloy Lacing => Lighter than Titanium but not as strong, has object memory and would thus help with healing, flexible
Nanocrystaline Titanium => Extreamly strong, similar to titanium in most respects but up to GM thoughts as to other properties, extreamly expensive
All those would work, I should think.
JaronK
Carbon Fiber Lacing => Lightweight, flexible, immune to MAD scanners
Graphite Lacing => ?
Titanium Nickle Alloy Lacing => Lighter than Titanium but not as strong, has object memory and would thus help with healing, flexible
Nanocrystaline Titanium => Extreamly strong, similar to titanium in most respects but up to GM thoughts as to other properties, extreamly expensive
All those would work, I should think.
JaronK
| QUOTE (Nikoli @ May 20 2004, 08:00 PM) |
| How about Carbon fibre or bucky-tubes? those are several hundred times stronger than steel, incredibly flexible and would have minimal impact on out body. |
Several hundreds times is an exaggeration.
The strongest carbon fibers have a tensile strength of about 1 million psi; the best *commercial* steels have a yield strength of about 350000psi; experimental steels have reached half a million psi. Nanotubes can theoretically reach strengths of about 3 million psi, or somewhat less than ten times as strong as the best available steels.
The reason I haven't suggested nanotubes and carbon fibers is because I don't think they'd do much.
Sure, they're strong in tension, but carbon fibers and nanotubes are not particularly hard (they're basically graphitic carbon). Much weaker steel scissors will cut them effortlessly; I used normal scissors to slice and dice carbon fiber cloth as an undergrad lab monkey, and there was no appreciable wear on the scissors' edge.
Further, that lovely tensile strength doesn't translate into compressional strength. When compressing a fibrous composite (bone+fibers in this case), the matrix of the composite (bone) takes the burden of the load; the fibers just want to buckle.
If a troll put you in an arm lock and tried to snap a carbon fiber-reinforced bone, the fibers would resist the bending of the bone admirably and help there. But if someone hit you with a club, slashed you with a sword, or shot you with a gun, the carbon fibers wouldn't add much.
I'd treat carbon fiber or nanotube bonelacing as a lighter plastic bonelacing (2-3kg).
| QUOTE |
| Ceramic Lacing |
Covered in Man & Machine, isn't it?
| QUOTE |
| Nanocrystaline Titanium => Extreamly strong |
Probably about on par with high strength steels, on a strength-for-weight basis. Titanium would just be useful for its biocompatibility. (Titanium has an overblown reputation. It's a good metal, but it thrives on a good Hollywood PR machine. There's equal and better steels out there.)
And, since the titanium of bonelacing is laid down by nanites, you could argue that titanium bonelacing already demonstrates a nanocrystalline structure.
If not, I might raise the barrier rating for nanocrystalline titanium BL slightly by a point or two, but I wouldn't increasing punching effects or armor rating. Alternately, you could get normal titanium BL effects at, say, 7-10kg rather than 15.
| QUOTE |
| So ummm... no one has any ideas for any other materials that could be used as lacing? Ones that are actually fesable? |
The problem is, the current bonelacings (SR3 plus Man & Machine) tend to cover very broad categories: "plastic" (what kind of plastic?), "titanium" (what alloy? nanocrystalline or amorphous? something else?), "ceramic" (what kind of ceramic?"), "aluminum" (same Q's as titanium), etc.
Since the changes between different lacing materials (compare plastic to titanium) are only on the order of +1 to +2 effects, most alternate materials only have a very "coarse" resolution to work with. You need dramatic effects to be notable, and it's hard to find a dramatically different ceramic, plastic, or metal from what's already covered.
Hmm... other bone lacing types?
Paper (for those ganger campaigns)
Tupperware
Fisher Price (those little fisher price people are darn near indestructable!)
Those plastic wrappers they sell CDs in that you can't open with knives
Cement
K'nex
All sorts of useful things : )
Paper (for those ganger campaigns)
Tupperware
Fisher Price (those little fisher price people are darn near indestructable!)
Those plastic wrappers they sell CDs in that you can't open with knives
Cement
K'nex
All sorts of useful things : )
That Rubbermaid trashcan material.
OR Lee's Dungaree fabric. Can't bust it.
OR Lee's Dungaree fabric. Can't bust it.
| QUOTE |
| So ummm... no one has any ideas for any other materials that could be used as lacing? |
Nanomachine lacing. Amorphous layers of nanomachines bonded to the bone. They would function like bullet resistant glass in that the first layer would feel a bullet passing an tell the lower layers to stiffen while the outerlayers flexed. It would give bonuses to Ballistic and Impact while doing nothing for Damage and adding very little weight.
| QUOTE |
| We're talking lacing, not plating. Plating requires removal of all meat/senew from the bones, lacing doesn't. |
Oh yeah, that's right. :thumbs up:
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) | ||
Nanomachine lacing. Amorphous layers of nanomachines bonded to the bone. They would function like bullet resistant glass in that the first layer would feel a bullet passing an tell the lower layers to stiffen while the outerlayers flexed. It would give bonuses to Ballistic and Impact while doing nothing for Damage and adding very little weight. |
What would be the game system for something like that? What kind of bonus to armor are you thinking?
I vote it could also repair broken bones.
| QUOTE |
| What would be the game system for something like that? What kind of bonus to armor are you thinking? |
I was thinking of someone telling me it was impossible, but:
Essence : 0.75
Cost : 25,000¥
Legality : 6P-Q
Street Index : 1.5
(STR)M Stun
+0 Body
+2 Ballistic
+1 Impact
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| I vote it could also repair broken bones. |
That's called nanosymbiotes. The response time is not rapid. Well, it's faster than natural healing, but...
| QUOTE |
| I was thinking of someone telling me it was impossible, but: |
I only check the website 2-3 times an hour, gimme a sec.
| QUOTE |
| Nanomachine lacing. Amorphous layers of nanomachines bonded to the bone. They would function like bullet resistant glass in that the first layer would feel a bullet passing an tell the lower layers to stiffen while the outerlayers flexed |
So...are nanomachines made out of very strong materials? It's all well and good to tell mini-bots, "Stiffen up, bullet coming your way!" but if they're made of silicon and proteins, they're just going to squish out of the way like an inert mix of silicon and proteins.
Rather than getting complicated with nanobots, why not just lace the bones with a passive material demonstrating a stress-stiffening response, like that liquid-enhanced armor that was posted here recently? The kevlar with the shear thickening fluid impregnated in it? That could be what the Kevlar Bonelacing of M&M has to differentiate it from normal plastic bonelacing.
The problem with that, as far as I can figure, is that it blows up into several times the volume when it hardens. And it can only do it once, then it's stuck in the hardened/enlarged status. Perhaps by the 2060s you could design it such that it wouldn't grow significantly larger in volume, and would soften back up soon after the stress.
On another note, how about this: network-bonded carbon lacing?
"Yes, that's right folks! Now you can actually DIKOTE your bones!"
"Yes, that's right folks! Now you can actually DIKOTE your bones!"
A dikote by any other name...
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| The problem with that, as far as I can figure, is that it blows up into several times the volume when it hardens. And it can only do it once, then it's stuck in the hardened/enlarged status. Perhaps by the 2060s you could design it such that it wouldn't grow significantly larger in volume, and would soften back up soon after the stress. |
I'm not sure I follow. Are you talking about the "liquid armor" that was posted recently?
That just impregnated some ballistic fibers with a shear-thickening liquid, at least as I read the descriptions. It won't "balloon" anymore than normal ballistic fiber armor.
| QUOTE |
| "Yes, that's right folks! Now you can actually DIKOTE your bones!" |
See: Ceramic Bonelacing. Ceramic bonelacing ain't made out of porcelain, it's made of ceramics that give diamond a good run for its money.
I was thinking the nanites would be made of ceramic and plastic or similar. The advantage over normal ceramic is the outside layer is absorbing the energy with spring action so that the bullet is stopped by the layers that behave just like ceramic. Not sure it's possible.
| QUOTE |
| Rather than getting complicated with nanobots, why not just lace the bones with a passive material demonstrating a stress-stiffening response, like that liquid-enhanced armor that was posted here recently? The kevlar with the shear thickening fluid impregnated in it? That could be what the Kevlar Bonelacing of M&M has to differentiate it from normal plastic bonelacing. |
But nanites are so much cooler! Let us suppose that the difference between plastic and Kevlar is actually just that Kevlar is a weave and the plasitic is not. Then we can add liquid hardening to the Kevlar, and get:
Essence : 1.5
Cost : 40,000¥
Legality : 6P-Q
Street Index : 1.75
(STR)M Stun
+1 Body
+1 Ballistic
+1 Impact
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| I was thinking the nanites would be made of ceramic and plastic or similar. The advantage over normal ceramic is the outside layer is absorbing the energy with spring action so that the bullet is stopped by the layers that behave just like ceramic. Not sure it's possible. |
Sure. Use plastic for the outer layer and ceramic for the inner. Nanites are cooler, but wouldn't do much extra.
| QUOTE |
| Let us suppose that the difference between plastic and Kevlar is actually just that Kevlar is a weave and the plasitic is not. Then we can add liquid hardening to the Kevlar, and get |
Sure, as you like for your home game.
I guess you're right. It's just that the only pictures about the stuff look like the material has gotten thicker, but that's just a trick of the perspective. In that case, I guess that could be the difference, although that stuff will be antique in 60 years. That would require a separate sealing layer, though, wouldn't it? If just to keep the STL from escaping into blood circulation.
http://www.uni.edu/ihsmun/archive/sc2003/S...d%20Uranium.htm
On April 15, 1999, the RAND organization, a non-profit NGO, issued a report stating that DU has no significant long-term effects on those who handled it.
know what your talking about or stfu, thanks la~
And Austere,
On April 15, 1999, the RAND organization, a non-profit NGO, issued a report stating that DU has no significant long-term effects on those who handled it.
know what your talking about or stfu, thanks la~
And Austere,
| QUOTE |
| I think it's because I came up with that idea early in this thread, and I cannot possibly have any idea what I'm talking about. |
Not sure what thats supposed to mean, considering I was supporting your idea in that post, but ok.
Cutter, you do realize that handling and having inside the body are totally different things, right?
| QUOTE |
| In sufficient amounts, DU can be harmful because of its chemical toxicity. Like mercury, cadmium, and other heavy-metal ions, excess uranyl ions depress renal function. High concentrations in the kidney can cause damage and in extreme cases renal failure. Furthermore, since DU is mildly radioactive, once inside the body it irradiates the organs. The main dose to the body organs will arise from the energy deposited in them from the emissions of the alpha particles. It is known that high doses of radiation can cause cancer. It is generally assumed for radiological protection purposes, that low doses of radiation can also cause cancer, but the lower the dose, the smaller the risk. |
Just for fun:
Depleted Uranium Bone Lacing
Essence : 2.5
Cost : 100,000¥
Legality : 6-R
Street Index : 1.5
(STR)S Stun
+2 Body
+1 Ballistic
+1 Impact
Depleted Uranium Bone Lacing
Essence : 2.5
Cost : 100,000¥
Legality : 6-R
Street Index : 1.5
(STR)S Stun
+2 Body
+1 Ballistic
+1 Impact
Cutter... you're quoting RAND as an unbiased source of information on the use of military technology? As in RAND, the conservative think tank that sponsers research as a method of forwarding the goals of it's sponsers? As in RAND, which has on its board of trusties representitives from the defense industry, as well as most other big buisiness interests? As in RAND, the group that does 2/3 of its research on defense issues, primarily for lobby interests? As in RAND, the group that has been repeatedly found to get all its data from industry sources only, never verifying this data through any independent researchers? As in RAND, the group that was created originally by the United States Air Force? Kind of like asking the Mafia about organized crime, don't you think?
DU is dangerous, slightly more so than lead. Putting it in your system is deadly. If you believe all this crap you're spewing out, why don't you take a nice DU lined shell, shave off a bit of it, and breathe in the shavings? Surely it's harmless...
JaronK
DU is dangerous, slightly more so than lead. Putting it in your system is deadly. If you believe all this crap you're spewing out, why don't you take a nice DU lined shell, shave off a bit of it, and breathe in the shavings? Surely it's harmless...
JaronK
How about cyanoacrylate bone lacing? Bonds instantly! No Body, armor, or unarmed damage bonuses, but any damage is immediately healed one box due to bone and tissue getting Krazy-glued back together. The one drawback: Anything that bounces off the guy with the rubber bone lacing sticks to you.
JaronK drop the conspiracy theories ok. BTW this is an article by UNI. Are colleges being sponsored by the NSA as well? Last I checked they're about the last unbiased source you can find. Better not reply, the men in dark suits might come for you.
I agree DU is dangerous. So is nutmeg if you inject it into you body, doesn’t mean it’s a biowarfare agent. I think you, like many here, jump on the bandwagon without the facts. I’ve handled DU .50 rounds with no ill effects, certainly not “contact burns” or anything else. In fact no one has, certainly not the m1 tank loaders that handle DU tank rounds in nothing but fatigues. You have no proof and a bunch of hearsay vs thousands of GIs that handle this stuff day in day out. Don’t believe me, ask these guys http://www.rblm1a2tanker.com/yabbse/index.php 19Kilo for life suckas. YHBT
As for handling and having inside why would it make a difference. You can get lead poisoning just touching lead. You can get cancer from asbestos other ways then from breathing it. Same for just about any toxic substance. Like I said, if its sealed/shielded it doesn’t matter anyway. Not sure why its so hard for you all to understand it. If you have cyberware you probably already have lead in you anyway.
The point of this post wasn’t “wow, wouldn’t this be the coolest” it was “prove why this can’t be done”. Which, at this point, no one has. Personally I think diakoted graphite would be sweeter. Its just funny to watch people lie and make crap up about subjects they bearly can understand in attempts to appear knowledgeable. Not saying people here are idiots, just very willing to spout off whether they know the subject or not. In the end beats bullsh*ters.
I agree DU is dangerous. So is nutmeg if you inject it into you body, doesn’t mean it’s a biowarfare agent. I think you, like many here, jump on the bandwagon without the facts. I’ve handled DU .50 rounds with no ill effects, certainly not “contact burns” or anything else. In fact no one has, certainly not the m1 tank loaders that handle DU tank rounds in nothing but fatigues. You have no proof and a bunch of hearsay vs thousands of GIs that handle this stuff day in day out. Don’t believe me, ask these guys http://www.rblm1a2tanker.com/yabbse/index.php 19Kilo for life suckas. YHBT
As for handling and having inside why would it make a difference. You can get lead poisoning just touching lead. You can get cancer from asbestos other ways then from breathing it. Same for just about any toxic substance. Like I said, if its sealed/shielded it doesn’t matter anyway. Not sure why its so hard for you all to understand it. If you have cyberware you probably already have lead in you anyway.
The point of this post wasn’t “wow, wouldn’t this be the coolest” it was “prove why this can’t be done”. Which, at this point, no one has. Personally I think diakoted graphite would be sweeter. Its just funny to watch people lie and make crap up about subjects they bearly can understand in attempts to appear knowledgeable. Not saying people here are idiots, just very willing to spout off whether they know the subject or not. In the end
beats bullsh*ters.
| QUOTE |
| Not saying people here are idiots, just very willing to spout off whether they know the subject or not. In the end [proof] beats bullsh*ters. |
If only that were true...
And if you read anything on the subject you'd know why "inside the body" is different than "outside the body." Skin helps block the weak radiation of DU, and unless it becomes powder or is otherwise taken internally, it will do pretty much nothing, just like everyone has been saying. If you go back, read, and think about what everyone has said I would hope you could even understand that.
Sure, one could shield it. Sure, one could lace it onto a metahuman. The question is would it be any better than anything else?
[edit]And the whole fucking point of asking of forum is to have people's opinions whether you like them of not. If you can't handle that, too bad.
From what I understand: You can't get lead poisoning just by touching lead. I handled a lead Civil War bullet personally, spent shell, and that's not saying much I agree. But lead doesn't hurt you until it gets in your system, such as touching your eyes, mouth, nose, and cuts. Which is why it's not a good idea to regularly handle lead.
Putting stock in evolution, we are creatures who live on a planet orbiting a ball of nuclear fire and radiation. Our outer layers have evolved to take a degree of solar, and even nuclear, radiation. A DEGREE mind you. It's why you don't get sunburned 20 seconds walking outside, or get cooked by the ambient background radiation emanating from the earth. So handling DU and having DU in your system is totally different, because your internal organs depend on your skin's resistance, the organs have no resistance to it themselves. Does this clear it up?
Putting stock in evolution, we are creatures who live on a planet orbiting a ball of nuclear fire and radiation. Our outer layers have evolved to take a degree of solar, and even nuclear, radiation. A DEGREE mind you. It's why you don't get sunburned 20 seconds walking outside, or get cooked by the ambient background radiation emanating from the earth. So handling DU and having DU in your system is totally different, because your internal organs depend on your skin's resistance, the organs have no resistance to it themselves. Does this clear it up?
You think I'm dreaming up conspiracy theories because I know the funding for RAND? It's a conservative think tank! This isn't a conspiracy, it's common knowledge, just like we know Greenpeace is a Liberal Environmentalist Lobby group. Yeesh, you'd think I said RAND was run by aliens or something. If you don't believe me about what RAND is, try looking at it's board of directors... and what their other jobs are. Or look at it's history. Or look at the many complaints that group has gotten, regarding their rather sloppy fact-checking, and their sources. This isn't Elvis-is-taking-over-the-world stuff, it's just standard political reality. Think tanks exist, and they're funded by whoever wants them lobbying in their favor.
The contact burns I was refering to are the ones you get right after the round is fired... not while you're just hanging out with the stuff. It heats up with friction, that's all. Nothing special there.
You clearly don't understand how lead effects the system. Try research, I'd recommend it. You know, Lead Poisoning. Maybe use google or something? Trust me, Lead Poisoning is not a vast liberal conspiracy. Depleted Uranium is more toxic. But just like lead, you can handle it. It's if it gets past your skin, into your body, that it gets really nasty. And that's what we've all been saying... if you had DU in your body, you'd be dead very shortly... and it's true. Again, if you don't believe this, inhale some lead chips or powedered DU (you keep talking like you've handled the stuff, so I assume you have some access). See what happens. Darwin effect at work there, eh?
Now, I think we've all shown why it would be a terrible idea. DU is a mildly radioactive highly toxic heavy metal, which is extreamly deadly in the body, and the amount required to lace someone's bones with the stuff would be leathal, causing brain damage and then death. That's just what it does, when in the body. While it's still outside your skin, you're okay, if you breathe it in, you're in trouble.
JaronK
The contact burns I was refering to are the ones you get right after the round is fired... not while you're just hanging out with the stuff. It heats up with friction, that's all. Nothing special there.
You clearly don't understand how lead effects the system. Try research, I'd recommend it. You know, Lead Poisoning. Maybe use google or something? Trust me, Lead Poisoning is not a vast liberal conspiracy. Depleted Uranium is more toxic. But just like lead, you can handle it. It's if it gets past your skin, into your body, that it gets really nasty. And that's what we've all been saying... if you had DU in your body, you'd be dead very shortly... and it's true. Again, if you don't believe this, inhale some lead chips or powedered DU (you keep talking like you've handled the stuff, so I assume you have some access). See what happens. Darwin effect at work there, eh?
Now, I think we've all shown why it would be a terrible idea. DU is a mildly radioactive highly toxic heavy metal, which is extreamly deadly in the body, and the amount required to lace someone's bones with the stuff would be leathal, causing brain damage and then death. That's just what it does, when in the body. While it's still outside your skin, you're okay, if you breathe it in, you're in trouble.
JaronK
| QUOTE |
| Skin helps block the weak radiation of DU, and unless it becomes powder or is otherwise taken internally, it will do pretty much nothing, just like everyone has been saying. If you go back, read, and think about what everyone has said I would hope you could even understand that. |
Skin blocks radiation about as well as toliet paper blocks rounds from a .45. Not that even that much protection would be needed for this material. I have read, and read and still you got no point. You talking about a material marginally more harmful to your body then anything else foriegn you can stick in it. If your interal cyberware gets rust then your just as screwed. "But its stainless or alloy" you say? Then the maker took precautions, just as mildly shielding for the DU would be a precaution. I wouldn't put DU directly inside unshielded/sealed, but the that has nothing with DU. I would do the same thing with any material that might poison the body. Even a mineral as mild as zinc might kill you if had a huge unsealed chuck in you.
But what do you know, two pages ago you and everyone else thought DU was as dangerous as ignited themite or ebola. Fine, don't use DU in your game, thats not the point. Its the point that most of the "facts" presented have no proof or would be overcame for the same reason that any cyberware would be of surgical quality.
And I can handle opinions, just not snake-oil salesman quoting "facts". Don't take it personal, I just know when to shut up when I'm out of my league, some people don't. DU is something I did alot of research on before I decided to touch it.
I got to say some of the other materials listed though could make for some decent lacing.
And JaronK I didn't really think your nuts man, chill. Yes I know RAND, they even admit they are government funded. >> http://www.rand.org/giving/ But as far as being some kind of coverup the goverment has enough to coverup as it is without sweating the small stuff (like the anti sex-drive powder in the army's mash potatos). There may be a linked between GWS and DU but they'll never admit it. But the fact is people have been handling this stuff for a long time.
Cutter... have you ever taken physics? Skin DOES block many types of radiation. It wouldn't stop Gamma rays, but it will certainly stop the Radiation that Uranium releases. So does your gut, by the way, which is why it's actually safe to eat a small chunk of Plutonium... it'll pass right through your system safely.
Now, speaking as someone who's grandfather invented multiple types of cybernetics (don't go nuts here, I'm refering to a few kinds of replacement hips!), I can tell you very plainly that there are many materials that are safe to put in the body. As long as the material cannot in any way be processed by the human body, it simply won't do anything other than take up space. Steel is one such metal, titanium is another. Most plastics are also safe, as are most ceramics. I don't know about Aluminum. This is why artificial hips work, and why you can have a pacemaker inserted safely. Lead, DU, and many other materials will interact with the body's functions, disrupting them and causing damage and death.
Now I never said DU was as dangerous as Ebola. I said it's highly toxic when placed in the body in any significant amount. So in that respect, it's about as dangerous as Arsenic... you can handle small amounts without too much danger, but after a threshold (a rather low one I might add) things go downhill fast.
I'm not sure what reseach you actually did about Depleted Uranium, but your last post proves you're talking out your [censored!]. Skin stops radiation like a piece of paper stops a .45... honestly. I think I learned enough to know better than that watching an old kids program... I certainly got information on Alpha, Beta, and Gamma radiation in High School Physics. And I got plenty more when I took College Level Physics... just finished a course on waves (including electromagnetic). I am not a snake-oil salesman. So... let's see if you really do "know when to shut up when I'm out of my league" shall we?
JaronK
Now, speaking as someone who's grandfather invented multiple types of cybernetics (don't go nuts here, I'm refering to a few kinds of replacement hips!), I can tell you very plainly that there are many materials that are safe to put in the body. As long as the material cannot in any way be processed by the human body, it simply won't do anything other than take up space. Steel is one such metal, titanium is another. Most plastics are also safe, as are most ceramics. I don't know about Aluminum. This is why artificial hips work, and why you can have a pacemaker inserted safely. Lead, DU, and many other materials will interact with the body's functions, disrupting them and causing damage and death.
Now I never said DU was as dangerous as Ebola. I said it's highly toxic when placed in the body in any significant amount. So in that respect, it's about as dangerous as Arsenic... you can handle small amounts without too much danger, but after a threshold (a rather low one I might add) things go downhill fast.
I'm not sure what reseach you actually did about Depleted Uranium, but your last post proves you're talking out your [censored!]. Skin stops radiation like a piece of paper stops a .45... honestly. I think I learned enough to know better than that watching an old kids program... I certainly got information on Alpha, Beta, and Gamma radiation in High School Physics. And I got plenty more when I took College Level Physics... just finished a course on waves (including electromagnetic). I am not a snake-oil salesman. So... let's see if you really do "know when to shut up when I'm out of my league" shall we?
JaronK
| QUOTE |
| Cutter... have you ever taken physics? Skin DOES block many types,... |
<points and laughs> Good luck try to find someone to believe that load. I want to see how many replies it takes before you realize your talking just to talk.
Cutter, since you're the newfound radiation wiz, let me ask you... what is alpha radiation, actually? What's it made of?
And then, while you're at it, what's beta radiation?
This is important, because all radioactive materials that break down into other elements emit either Alpha or Beta radiation.
When you know what these two things are, then tell me what you think of their ability to penetrate skin, okay?
JaronK
And then, while you're at it, what's beta radiation?
This is important, because all radioactive materials that break down into other elements emit either Alpha or Beta radiation.
When you know what these two things are, then tell me what you think of their ability to penetrate skin, okay?
JaronK
This might help by the way, you mighty physist you...
http://www.orau.gov/reacts/alpha.htm
Notice point one.
Then click on over to Beta and notice how well that penetrates.
*cough*
Not exactly a .45 through tissue paper, now is it?
JaronK
[EDIT] PS: You know how there's some people that get tans? Do you know what a tan is for? It's not just for looks, there's a biological function... wait for it... wait for it... radiation shielding!
http://www.orau.gov/reacts/alpha.htm
Notice point one.
Then click on over to Beta and notice how well that penetrates.
*cough*
Not exactly a .45 through tissue paper, now is it?
JaronK
[EDIT] PS: You know how there's some people that get tans? Do you know what a tan is for? It's not just for looks, there's a biological function... wait for it... wait for it... radiation shielding!
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