I actually like *everything* about SR3.

Most especially:

I *like* the Matrix and...

I *like* cyberdecks.

I DO NOT LIKE THIS.

FanPro can get f'ck'n bent, as can all who have anything to do with this abominable incarnation of the rules, as can anyone who wants me to take my bitching elsewhere.

...good gods, people...

(SIDEBITCH: They'll take the f'ck'n time to revamp the goddamn rules, but they won't take the f'ck'n time to reprint f'ck'n Sprawl Sites.)

Ohmygod. I wish I could just open-handed slap the party responsible for this.

.|.. ..|.

(look at those as middle fingers and go f'ck yourselves)

Kanada is right on that one. What problem is there? Just keep on developing your own game world, you should have more than enough info/plothooks/etc for more campaigns that you can probably run during a normal life, so no problem there. And, if you want to keep up on the background, just buy the new background stuff, and use SR3 rules with them. No?

Adam, please oh please, get a video if this happens and host it here.

I agree with Devil. I've been playing SR since 1990 and with each subsequent edition I have become less interested in the product line. SR2 was a major improvement to a convuluted rule system, but the diminishing presence of artwork compromised the feel of the 6th world. SR3 streamlined the matrix rules, but took the world in a cheesy-ass direction with the "Comet."
I recognize and appreciate the need for change in order to maintain a lucrative position in the economy. I just don't understand where the original fans of the game factor in, if at all. When I read the notice about 4th ed. on the SR site I just about puked. I truly hope the guys in charge of the SR line know what they're doing. As for me, I think I've had my fill of revisions to SR.

Sure.

But then I could also just anticipate, say, SR5 and redux the rules all on my own:

Abolish ALL skills and spells and rely only on Pools to accomplish everything based on a difficulty rating!

MAGEGUY: I wanna raise a volcano in the middle of Downtown Seattle and cause it to erupt, killing EVERYBODY!!!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 52. Roll your Magic Pool Dice.

TECHGUY: I wanna use that man-portable full-auto railgun/laser that doesn't need any ammo!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 20. Roll your Combat Pool Dice.

DECKERHACKERSCRIPTKIDDIEWHATEVERGUY: I wanna hack the NSA/CIA/Whatever-A DBase and find out if aliens really exist! And if Damien Knight is really Dunkelzahn! And I wanna drop a worm into Zurich Orbital!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 16, 23, and... 92. Roll your Hacking Pool Dice.

Bunny-hop your bicycle? Diff 3.
Shoot that pistol? Diff 3.
Hairpin turn at 170? Diff 8.
Fly a helicopter? Diff 9.

ARBITRARY DIFFICULTY RATINGS FOR *EVERYTHING* MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

WAITAMINUTE! Why don't we just scrap the whole stupid dice system too? Just leave it up the the GM to decide, or resort to a "Guess The Number I'm Thinking" method to resolve those hairy debates like whether or not Ghost Walker dies because you hit him in the sweet spot with that Light Pistol?

No? No. We'll probably see that in SR8 when every character is really an incarnated AI and they all look like Damien Knight. Of course, then the dice rolling method will be exchanged in favor of the "If You Can't Do It In Real Life, Then You Can't Do It In Shadowrun Either" method.

GUNGUY: [player pulls out his Desert Eagle] I wanna shoot COMPUTERGUY!

GM: Go for it.

*BANG!*

COMPUTERGUY: Ow!

GM: He's still alive, GUNGUY!

*BANG!*
*BANG!*
*BANG!*
...
...
...
...
*BANG!*

GM: Hey, GUNGUY, what was that last shot for?

GUNGUY: Just makin' sure, is all. Hey, can I take a trophy?

GM: Whatever, man, if you can cut it - or rip it - off, you can have it!

[an aside: the Sprawl Sites comment was semi-serious. I mean, c'mon, maps? Why the frig NOT? And I've had a total of 4 experiences purchasing over the internet. 3 were with e-bay and those were the bad ones. Not joking. And, no, in all honesty, this thing doesn't bring me any comfort at all.]

Grrr. Grrr, I say!

At Adam:

Why? Are you the one responsible, or do you simply wish to see me actually slap whoever is?

Sprawl Sites, incidentally, will be made available as an ebook. In the meantime, Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book has a lot of similar content - short plot hooks, locations, and NPCs.

Edit: I was one of the people involved in early SR4 meetings, and I've contributed a little to the book, and will hopefully contribute more as the line continues to grow. But mostly, I just want to see if you're willing to back up what you say, when you know very little about what will be in SR4 and are going on a pure emotional response to the sparse statements that have been released.

First, does it really matter if I'd follow through?

Second, not that my emotional state is anybody's concern (ooooh, hold the phone folks, jeez, we almost pissed off some guy on a forum) but it WOULD be better if we ALL had more than just 'sparse statements' to go on...

... more information never hurts.

And the doc says I'm doing much better now, by the way, so can the 'psycho' remarks.

Well, see, it works that way :

"I know am talking"

"Words are coming out of my mouth."

"I know what are the words that are coming out of my mouth."

"Therefore it follows that I know what I am talking about."

Logical, huh?

Just a reminder. Keep it civil. You don't have to like SR4, you can hate it all you want, but be civil in here.

Once again warnings were issued.

Bull

"omg me2"

Apparently the Great Lord Arethusa, who dictates who may post what, prefers this.

You know what really rocks? Having a joke explained to me. Nothing makes wit better than witlessly breaking it open and pounding it into my head.

yeah, see. the guys who came up with the basic concepts used in YotC? they're not in charge of SR anymore. you really can't blame the current crop of writers for the horrid sins of their forefathers.

I'm in that minority too, especially because I do not want to spend more money after all I paid for tons of SR3 books which I've not played yet.
Possibly SR4 will be an improvement (because SR3, like any game on the world, has many faults) but is it not convenient for me now to start playing SR4. There is so much detail in books like Matrix and R3R which I have not still used and exploited....

I like cyberdecks and decking too, in the same way I'm a real afficionado of the oldschool mainframe/dial-up style infrastructure of the internet back in its founding days (check out Sneakers, good flick, things were so easy back then, before everyone exploited it and ruined it for the rest of us... enterprising free-thinkers). I don't like this idea that the cyberdeck is dead. Here, prior to the announcement of such a vehement "no cyberdecks anymore!" policy, is what I thought of when I thought of SR4's infowarfare activities and hardware:

2050: "Introducing the seventh generation cyberdeck, now in portable form!"

2070: "Introducing the eighth generation cyberdeck, now in ultraportable/wearable/distributed/nanoscale form!"

I don't see why this can't just another generation of cyberdeck, along with another generation of the Matrix.

my guess is that WK's guess is pretty much how it will happen. there'll still be computers which fulfill the function of a 2060s cyberdeck, but they won't be cyberdecks. at best, they'll be a palm-sized cyberPDA, or (even better) a nanoforged pair of cyberunderwear (i love my computer, it makes me feel alright). so, they're not really deckers anymore, what with the lack of a deck and all. but they still have computers that set them far apart from average users.

I'll be at Gen Con...can I get in on this too?

Hmmm. Adam, Rob, and Pistons vs. Disgruntled SR Fans grudge match and Launch Party! It could work!!!


*grin*

I'd pay money for that show, actually. Dibs on podcasting rights.

I'd like to re-iterate my request for video/pics if this actually comes to fruition.

But Pistons can turn him into a newt before it even gets started... that's not fair!

FanPro's accessibility is what makes it great. wanna slap an author? slap an author! you heard it here first: lack of slapping is why FASA dropped SR!

the only slapping i personally plan on doing is slapping ex-presidents on a table in exchange for my book.

edit: fear not. he'll get better.

Let me add me name to the willing to see if crazed fan will show up to slap me. After all I'm thinking I may get blamed for destroying one of his favorite parts of SR3.

It's good to know that the fans are reacting to this upcoming edition change in such a calm, adult, and intelligent manner.

I'm not involved in anything to do with 4th edition, but if I make it there I'd feel left out if I didn't get slapped too.

~J

I demand to be slapped, too, if only out of a feeling of solidarity.

I'll get in line for this slapping too

Be warned... I slap back.

Bull

SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!
Be there as the denizens af Dumpshock deal out doom and destruction to the disgruntled dickweed! It'll be EXTREEEEEEME!

From what I remember of Rob's piercings I'm not sure who'd get more hurt if this guy takes a swing. (sheesh, can't find the smiley with the green hair).

And of course this'll provide us with a unique opportunity to see if the new Friends in Melee rule is an accurate abstraction... Man, sometimes I hate being on the other side of the Pond.

Kanada - thanks.

You guys are fragging brilliant, which is why I visit this forum daily, vicious wit & astute observations.

Fortune, forgive my presumptuosness. I was out of line.

Synner, forgive my short-sightedness. You are correct. Fanpro has addressed the issues of artwork in their recent publications.