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mfb
apollo124 is the forgive-and-forget sort of guy!
Overwatch
Singapore - right now they have draconian laws, and the best and brightest biotech - genetics research facility in the world. Imagine what they'll be like in 65 years.

Tokyo - Having the most high tech city, over run with politcal turmoil and cross suported with shadows of asia should do nicely. And a nice tip of the hat to gibson and the rest of the cyberpunks.

Seattle - If you dont include it, I and 46 other people strategicly placed around the world will cry.

Detroit - Nothing says "gritty" and "street" like D-Town. It's practically SR material right now. And in 2070 you've got Ares.

Helsinki Stockholm or Oslo - I think one of these needs some attention, especailly if winternight is behind the matrix crash.

Chicago - Bug city was on of my all time favorite SR experiences. I'd really like to see what fate has befallin the windy city.
Birdy
Side note: I find it funny that most US citizens assume everyone knows where there cities are. It's like assuming everybody knows where say Telgte is in germany. It's an important old town. And a few 100 years older than Columbus, founded around the same time Erik the Red made the voyage to NewFoundland.

As for towns I don't! want to see:
======================

Seattle: The town is boring IRL, was a "stupid" setting in SR1 and did get worse

Berlin: Shoot the guys who designed that Piece of Crap

Hamburg and Miami: I don't like submarine scenarios unless Michal Ironsides plays the captain and one is sunken and the other one should be under water in SR

SanFran: Sorry but "Granola City" (all the nuts and flakes...) never was my liking IRL and the way it has been done in SR didn't make it all that great either

Town's I'd like to see:
==============

Denver: The original set is rarer than a LoneStar SB and unlike the LSSB the info has not been reprinted

Istanbul: Or Konstantinopel or whatever it is called now. Sounds great. It really is a city divided IRL with one foot in modern europe and one in 18th century Near East culture

Casablance: Just because I like that movie

Wladiwostok: Because a Mega shifted his seat there without much warning. And while it might now be a "Russian" mega I bet it still has strong ties to Japan

Neo-Tokyo or Chiba: You can easily have Cyberpunk without the USA but you can't have it without either of those cities

Detroid: Or is it called "Delta City" by now :=)

CapeTown/Durban/Pretoria: Any of the three might be interesting

The Chanell Islands: Smugglers havens of old

Towns I might like to see:
=================

New York: If they clean up the mess of a "restricted Manhatten" and give us a proper bronx, say the South Bronx as the place where all the violent elven gangs hang out ;=)

LA: Again, if they clean up the mess the CFS SB made out of it and we get Officer Murphy to protect us




Daegann
> The only city I really want to see is...

Seoul

Because i love Korea but not only. Shadowrun speaking, Seoul is very interesting. It's near japan but it's not Japan. (those who think Korea is just a japan or chinese subculture are just fool wink.gif) I don't want to tell much about all interest we can find in Seoul (before SoA release at least) but there are many opportunity of great adventure in this city, really.
> Daegann
SL James
QUOTE (Birdy @ Jul 11 2005, 03:40 AM)
Side note: I find it funny that most US citizens assume everyone knows where there cities are. It's like assuming everybody knows where say Telgte is in germany. It's an important old town. And a few 100 years older than Columbus, founded around the same time Erik the Red made the voyage to NewFoundland.

Nope, no one here knows where Seattle or New York are. Not a soul...

QUOTE (Birdy)
Seattle: The town is boring IRL, was a "stupid" setting in SR1 and did get worse

Thems is fightin' words

QUOTE
SanFran: Sorry but "Granola City" (all the nuts and flakes...) never was my liking IRL and the way it has been done in SR didn't make it all that great either

The way it was done... You mean by turning it into the polar opposite of reality?
Birdy
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (Birdy @ Jul 11 2005, 03:40 AM)
Side note: I find it funny that most US citizens assume everyone knows where there cities are. It's like assuming everybody knows where say Telgte is in germany. It's an important old town. And a few 100 years older than Columbus, founded around the same time Erik the Red made the voyage to NewFoundland.

Nope, no one here knows where Seattle or New York are. Not a soul...

QUOTE (Birdy)
Seattle: The town is boring IRL, was a "stupid" setting in SR1 and did get worse

Thems is fightin' words

QUOTE
SanFran: Sorry but "Granola City" (all the nuts and flakes...) never was my liking IRL and the way it has been done in SR didn't make it all that great either

The way it was done... You mean by turning it into the polar opposite of reality?

Oh, New York is known. But ask the average European where Seattle is or what is big there and you draw a blank.

As for SanFranzisko: Japanese Occupation, Orkland etc... Sorry, that is on the "Berlin Anarchy" level as is IMHO most of the CalFree Idea.

Birdy
hermit
QUOTE
As for SanFranzisko: Japanese Occupation, Orkland etc... Sorry, that is on the "Berlin Anarchy" level as is IMHO most of the CalFree Idea.

Not quite there, at least the setting made an attempt at explanation instead of just saqying "it works because it does, we cannot explain it, it just does!"

But it's trying.
SL James
QUOTE (Birdy)
Oh, New York is known. But ask the average European where Seattle is or what is big there and you draw a blank.

You mean we're not just talking about SR players, because I was.
Demonseed Elite
An important part about picking the cities that become signature settings will not only be cities that are "cool" and people want to see more on, but cities that can support the future plotlines. We wanna get out of the messy mix of an absurd level of massive events happening in Seattle and also a number of events happening globally in places the players have no real reason to be or no information on.

Some cities are potentially really neat, but mostly because they have a gimmick that would only go so far when trying to make it a focal point. These cities will need longevity to play host to plotlines for years and remain interesting to the players like Seattle has.
Birdy
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
An important part about picking the cities that become signature settings will not only be cities that are "cool" and people want to see more on, but cities that can support the future plotlines. We wanna get out of the messy mix of an absurd level of massive events happening in Seattle and also a number of events happening globally in places the players have no real reason to be or no information on.

Some cities are potentially really neat, but mostly because they have a gimmick that would only go so far when trying to make it a focal point. These cities will need longevity to play host to plotlines for years and remain interesting to the players like Seattle has.

For that you need:

1) A valid cause why the city is important and does attract lots of criminals/agents

2) The city/region must be large enough to support the action, including a large (preferably multi-national) criminal underbelly

3) Must be resonably accessible by various nations

4) Should have enough history to make for some background plots and political/criminal factions

5) Should be resonably well known to new gamers

6) Some "special features" to add some spice are a nice benefit

7) Should be explainable without a "deus ex machina" (So Berlin is OUT!)

So you are restricted to areas like

+ The Rhein-Ruhr Metroplex (Dortmund-Duisburg-Cologne Triangle)
* Heavy industry
* Major population center
* Lots of sub-cultures, history and crime
* Even IRL resonably close to a MegaSprawl

+ Greater NewYork (or the NewYork-Boston-Washington Sprawl if you go that far)
* It's a classic with tons of Archetypes
* It's huge with tons of different cultures
* A major seaport
* The StockExchange
* Mike Hammer

+ Tokyo / HonkKong
* Again a classic and still major trading spots in SEA
* Tradition meets HighTech
* Strange Gangs
* It's Asia
* Samurais and Emperors

+ Moskow / St. Petersburg / Kiev
* Major cities of a decaying empire
* Basically run by criminal gangs
* The KGB (no matter what you call him)
* Tons of History
* Nuclear weapons anyone?

+ London or Liverpool or Manchaster

and so on. Between the crash and the nuclear meltdowns there is not much of that stuff say in Seattle. I guess it was just "conveniet" (Not much used before, resonably isolated, not too large) and better than developing a new city from the go (Night City *cough*)

Birdy
hermit
QUOTE
+ The Rhein-Ruhr Metroplex (Dortmund-Duisburg-Cologne Triangle)
* Heavy industry
* Major population center
* Lots of sub-cultures, history and crime
* Even IRL resonably close to a MegaSprawl

And you have forgotten something ... hint: it's mean, rich and has a Golden Snout ...
will_rj
QUOTE (JongWK)
"Sangre do Dragao" (portuguese)

After years of lurking without taking the time to register, here i am.

The word for blood in portuguese is sangue, not sangre smile.gif
JongWK
I *knew* I should have paid more attention to my Portuguese lessons. nyahnyah.gif

@ Will Ri: Do I know you? *scratches head*
Synner
The correct Portuguese forms are "Sangue do Diabo" ou "Sangue do Dragão", personally I think the Brazilians would use the former rather than the latter.

Bem vindo aos forums, will_rj, é bom ver outro lusófono por aqui. wink.gif
Crisp
I agree with Synner, the Brazillians would probably use "Sangue do Diabo,"

And "Hi!" to will_rj, tuga ou brazuca? (ou outra coisa qualquer?)
JongWK
What the...

This place is crowded with Portuguese speakers! WARN THE WORLD!!!

silly.gif
hermit
Cool. Hey, will_rj, are you from one of the big coastal cities, or do you live inland?
Synner
Uhh guys? His profile says Rio.
hermit
*shoots self*

But cool. At least *some* way of getting information on Metropole, now that SoLA might never see the light.

Hope you don't mind that, will_rj.
mintcar
"never" ?? Is that bitterness on your part hermit or is it true? I thought it was being posponed.
hermit
It is part of my strong worries about this book's fate, hence the 'might' before the 'never'.
Synner
SoLA has definitely not been cancelled at this time, it is simply postponded indefinitely. The book is written and edited and will very likely see the light of day in one form or another, though what that may be is still being decided. There may or may not be more information available at GenCon.
hermit
"In one form or another" sounds like "some of it's material will be used in the new 'target:X' or whatever we will call it series" sarcastic.gif

However, this *might* be taken as a hint that Metropole will be one of the sx core settings, and that would rock! biggrin.gif
Grinder
Sounds to me as if the book will online be released as PDF.
hermit
Yeah, that's the spirit, make the customer pay for printing and binding costs ... >_<

Good thing I at least know a printing outfit that charges reasonable prices. smile.gif
mfb
i'm with daegann. seoul is a megatropolis straight out of blade runner already. given korea's history of subjugation to japan, and japan's imperialism in SR, it'll be interesting to see how korea ends up.
Synner
Give it another week or so...
mfb
indeed.

edit: korea's history is interesting, which is part of the reason i want to see it as an SR setting. i mean, for chrissake, their last queen was murdered by ninjas.
Backgammon
Unofficial Metropole info plug

feel free to resurect it and discuss
hermit
QUOTE (mfb)
i'm with daegann. seoul is a megatropolis straight out of blade runner already. given korea's history of subjugation to japan, and japan's imperialism in SR, it'll be interesting to see how korea ends up.

That was already covered in Target: Smuggler Havens.

If my memory serves me correctly, Korea is reunited, and while not subjugated to Japan, it's a close ally. I might check that out later.
FlakJacket
Whilst not openly, it was pretty much under Japan's thuimb. There's a line about Japan sending warships to Korea for port calls to make sure that they don't forget it either.
JongWK
And you can bet some people ain't happy about that. wink.gif

But what Synner said: give it a week or so...
FlakJacket
Well with the Japanese military pullout after the quake and Korean corps like Eastern Tiger and Kwonsham with PPG backing, I'd have been surprised if there weren't some changes. smile.gif
Daegann
> Yes, you'll have information about Korea soon.
But those information is great to develop Seoul in many interesting ways for shadowrun.
> Daegann
sanctusmortis
I wonder if they'll follow Blade Runner and put Middlesbrough UK in it? The city that inspired Ridley Scott...
FlakJacket
God I hope not. Most people don't even want Middlesbrough in the UK, never mind Korea. wink.gif
SR4WorldOrder
i'd like to see Dallas as a runners haven because everything is about all the other cities. Dallas is left in the fraggin dust.
hermit
Yeah, especially compared to literally all cities in Asia, which are, as we all know, all over the books. sarcastic.gif
Birdy
QUOTE (hermit)
Yeah, especially compared to literally all cities in Asia, which are, as we all know, all over the books. sarcastic.gif

But you can run nice Shedim scenarios in Dallas. After all they have been around since the 1980s there.

Birdy
apollo124
QUOTE (Birdy)
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 17 2005, 10:42 PM)
Yeah, especially compared to literally all cities in Asia, which are, as we all know, all over the books. sarcastic.gif

But you can run nice Shedim scenarios in Dallas. After all they have been around since the 1980s there.

Birdy

Okay Birdy, I'll bite.

Sheddim in the 80's?? What's the story?
SL James
Dallas.

The key word is Dallas.
Grinder
Didn't dare to post it smile.gif
SR4WorldOrder
Im glad to see other players can see my point. Im sure there are other player out ther who would like to see there home towns or major cities near them published in a source book. Heres my point >> Dallas it the Captial of TEXAS in the CAS for gods sake. Dallas is a hotbed of activity. They have indians from the northwest, UCAS do north, and the AZTLANS (a.k.a>Mexicans) to the south. I my opinion there is alot of nuyen.gif out there to be made. Its along way from Atlanta for any help. So Us TEXANS gotta to do it all by ourselves.
hermit
QUOTE
Im sure there are other player out ther who would like to see there home towns or major cities near them published in a source book.

I for my part would like to see mine done right.

QUOTE
Dallas it the Captial of TEXAS in the CAS for gods sake.

A second-tier city in a third-rate splinter of a former Superpower. Yay. On a continent where virtually every Anglo city other than Dallas has already been covered. Give me more of that. After all, they're so different from Seattle, Denver and DeeCee. They wear cowboy hats.

QUOTE
Its along way from Atlanta for any help. So Us TEXANS gotta to do it all by ourselves.

Then declare yourselves independent, become a battleground for covert UCAS/CAS and Aztlan operations, instal a new Santa Anna type dictator (aztlan backed), and you'll become interesting. In the current setting, you're just a more hot and dusty Seattle where people speak a funny dialect. No competition to exotic places like Calcutta or Bankok or Tokyo.
SL James
Meh

I hate Texas, but my PC is more likely to travel to Dallas than leave the continent.
hermit
Well, mine is (much) more likely to leave the continent than run a game in Texas.

Besides, like I said, it's Seattle with cowboy hats, basically. No big differences.
Starglyte
QUOTE (hermit)
Well, mine is (much) more likely to leave the continent than run a game in Texas.

Besides, like I said, it's Seattle with cowboy hats, basically. No big differences.

You don't have to have Texas be Seattle with cowboy hats. I would run it like a warzone similar to the Middle East combined with the Iron Curtain from the Cold War. Terrorist orginization on both sides bombing civilian targets, two opposing governments opposing each other while trying to not start shooting war. At the same time one fanactical part of the state government wants to secede in the near future.

Seattle has the megacorporations while Texas is more political in nature. But then again, if you want to treat Texas as Seattle with cowboy hats, you can do that.

On another note, are you going to finish your review of Loose Alliances? I enjoyed reading what you wrote so far.
hermit
QUOTE
You don't have to have Texas be Seattle with cowboy hats. I would run it like a warzone similar to the Middle East combined with the Iron Curtain from the Cold War. Terrorist orginization on both sides bombing civilian targets, two opposing governments opposing each other while trying to not start shooting war. At the same time one fanactical part of the state government wants to secede in the near future.

That's pretty much what I suggested, only that I asked for full secession and a shooting war. But that would hardly be canon, at least according to SoNA. Maybe stuff changes with SR4. I know Patrick does want to move some borders for good.

Oh, and the Iron Curtain was more like bothn sides lying there pointing awesome amounts of weapons on one another and just waited for the other to make the first move. Pretty little real action going on. I know, I grew up right on the front lines. Low-flying MIGs going into supersonic some 2000 feet above the city and East German bomber squads making mock attacks were the closest we ever came to a real attack.

QUOTE
Seattle has the megacorporations while Texas is more political in nature.

Texas has no megacorps? What about Lone Star, based there? What about Ares? UniOil? This is new to me, really. Texas has, canonically, the same megacorp density all UCAS settings have (with the exception of DeeCee).

My point was that there was no great cultural difference between Texas and Seattle. Like between Seattle and, say, Vladivostok, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Johannisburg, Metropole or Calcutta. And that's what I'd like to see. A truely different, non-Western core setting. One among several, but there nonetheless. SR's world has no West anymore, and I think the settings should reflect the grown weight of Asian culture, economics and military power.

QUOTE
On another note, are you going to finish your review of Loose Alliances? I enjoyed reading what you wrote so far.

Yeah, as soon as I have more time at my hands. smile.gif
SL James
No west?

We must not have been reading the same copy of Shadows of North America. Besides that, the West is a lot more than Texas.

Speaking of which, do you really get how far away the Aztlan border in Austin is to Dallas? (I'll give you a hint, it's 196mi/313.6km.) If Azzie fighters are flying over Dallas, then there is a big fucking problem.

Other than that, calling Dallas "Seattle with cowboy hats" is just incredibly ignorant. They're on the same continent (and currently in the same country). That's about all they really have in common.
Starglyte
Texas does indeed have all the Corps that Seattle has. If I was going to make a campaign in Texas, I would focus more on the political situation than doing runs for corps. Doing runs for corporations would be the Seattle standard, while what new information we have on Texas focuses on the border and policlubs( Sons of the Alamo mostly.) You can do those runs in Seattle, but it is more suited for Texas.(IMO)

I heard rumors of the border change in SR4 as well. I don't know what to make of it just yet. As a Texan, I would be happy to see the state united( under CAS or a independent republic). But it is still only a game and letting my personal feelings get in the way of a good story is just immature. There is more adventure seeds with a border where criminals, refugees, special forces, smugglers, terrorists cross the borders into CAS and Aztlan. Just curious, how do you personally feel about how Shadowrun treated your country. I don't really mean how canon is, but how the history occurred?

To get back on topic, I agree with all of your list of cities that I would like to see with the setting books. Heck, I would like to see Neo-Tokyo before my hometown. But it would still be cool to see San Antonio described just for my personal enjoyment.
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