Gone to Press

The cover looks a little better, though the picture is still silly. To still my mind I will adopt the "team leaving the facility" point of view.

When I first saw that dwarf I thought : "Damn that's some hairy legs!" before i realized it was his pants. Looks like he should be on Monster Garage. That big Jamaican ork is sporting a pair of OICW's if I'm not mistaken. Sure, the project got canned, but kudos to the artist who at least looks at a few real guns before he draws one...

gack, was looking through the metahuman art and the ork picture... Is anybody else reminded of the the terrible 'Battlefield Earth' movie? The aliens played by Jon Travolta with the dreadlocks and such? <shudder>

What about the neon sign hanging between the troll's legs?

yeah, geez, yikes. The dwarf would've been cool if it wasn't for the ridiculous "I just did a sheep" pants. I liked the other art we saw before. These... not so much.

I think the artist is very good, but the pics, not so much.
I really hope they aren't angling for a "cracked-out-raver-meets-yoyoyohomey" as a style for all of SR4...

In Shadowrun 4, all shadowruns will take place in raves. Johnsons are replaced with ecstasy dealers, corporations with narcs and guns, magic and drones with brightly coloured objects.

Heels are mandatory on all female characters, as are exposed midriffs and funky accessories. Funky accessories will increase your combat pool.

Remember orxploitation?

I'm glad they darkened the picture up a little. I still think that Dwarf (which I still insist is a female) looks ridiculous. I still think the Troll looks ridicu--hold on, let's save time. "I still think they all look ridiculous."

But, well, at least it's dark. Darker, at least.

Nice frosty, you posted the link.. what minutes after the site changed?

Anyway, yes the art is "good" but not nearly as.. well realistic as i would want. I mean, i understand shadowrunners can be flamboyant freaks sometimes. But well, how about some art with what my SR characters look like.. hehe you know form fitting body armour stealthy mofo's. I mean, while i do have some characters that would look that freaky during downtime, while doing a run. Well to me its alot more corp and serious than random "no fat chicks" t-shirts and jeans. Which is kinda what the people seem to be wearing.

The only thing I really feel sorry for is that poor street sam on the cover of the SR4 manual. That spur has got to hurt, or if its a bug spirit comming out.. well that makes more sense than having that weird ass spur out at that exact moment.

Later all:) cya at Gencon:P

I think the dwarf is compensating for something with the joystick coming out of hhis belt.

You're right, looks like he's got an Ares Compensator stuffed down there or somethin'

That being said, I do think that the artist is good. I like the dwarf's beard, I like the shading on the characters. I just don't like what he drew. I'd like to see more, just..... different. Especially the ork. Just once I'd like to see someone take a stab at drawing a semi-attractive ork or troll female. The ork on SOTA 2064 was neat.

Just wondering how useful he'd be on an infiltration op when the point is not to be seen or heard as the runners are crawling through the air ducts.

The view from your high horse must be nice, but I prefer the ground level with the rest of the snakes.

Some of the pictures (especially the ork...) look to me like she took a photo of a model and just drew on the tusks, the pointy ears, or the big hair. Actually, they all sort of look like that... Parts of the drawings just look flat compared to the rest, making it look like they were drawn on over a higher-quality picture.

The separation between the Troll on the cover and the B&W troll (*cough* head size *cough*) are distracting to me. I know there can be variations in individuals, etc. , etc..

I have and outfitted properly it can be pretty silent compared to just about any non-silenced gun (true that one doesn't look appropriately outfitted).

Well, yes, compared to any non-suppressed gun. I tend to have slightly more absolute requirements when it comes to the word "silent".

~J

Not too keen on most of those pictures, but the dwarf's cool - those trousers remind me of the P.A.G.A.N. outfits from the Dragnet film, which is always good

Looks okay, except that the ork may give people the mistaken impression that it's possible to use two assault rifles that size effectively outside of anime, the dwarf is wearing sheep-pants, and the human's sword looks impossible to remove from the sheath.

Every now and then you see some comic or RPG that has a penumatic "arrow rifle" - which looks exactly like you think it would. I like the elf, but I think the bow was uncessary. Looks cool, though.

This is good news? Being a graphic artist, I really dislike cutting up someone else's work. Critiquing is different.

Seeing this cover would totally put me off buying this. If I was a young kid looking to try a new game this would do anything but make me want to play this. After all the negative feedback they still went with this? I think the artist is a good one, but really really missed the target with this picture. Sending this to print should qualify as a corporate darwin award. Someone do the community a favor and gas fanpro.

The following is all IMO, as art is something everyone has to decide and feel for himself.

Having said that, I am not amused by the B/W pic’s shown.

The proportions of the depicted "characters" are sometimes a bit off, which gives me a subconscious headbuzz. They (the chars) somehow let me miss the professional touch, the lightness one expects from drawings of the caliber of Mr. MacDougal or Mr. Prescott. Those seem awfully like somebody really had to work on the sketches, keeping on erasing and replacing parts, until it somehow fitted enough to pass casual examination. Which regularly is the same I have to do (allthough I do take the basic concept and work it over afterward in PS, much more convenient for me sktech amateur), if I ever try to go beyond the sktech phase. Which is thankfull for my fellow players and the rest of the world, not very often.

Granted, the colored version that was linked a bit above me has something to it, even something I could get to like, but I wonder why specifically the lower torso and legs where kept out of the picture. Also, I have the vague impression, that the pic’s where drawn from some photo and for that, not very good. Could be wrong of course, but well, I doubt it. Although I know that some Artist prefer to paint/ draw etc. that way, those same artists get it somehow right, so it does not give you the feeling, that there is something awkward. And having read some other articles above me, no, I don't think the artist actually painted OVER another picture/ photo. For that some details are to fragged and slighlty out of poportion. Take the knee from the asian human for example, I wonder where it should be on that leg. Annyhow, minore details.

Now, for the interpretation of the "races" I can go with the Elf, alright (one has to appreciate the face, I grudgingly admit), but the rest is... discomforting somehow.

All in all, having said too much already, the overall feel is less professional and more amateurish in my opinion.
But this time I meant the char concepts themselves, not the actual job of drawing them.

If I compare the 3rd ed. chars with those shown for 4th ed. I'd say we go back into the freaky-punky-all-is-well-with-style Background, which I on one hand like and on the other hand not. First of, can anyone think of one of the above entering the friendly neighborhood shopping mall, equipped like they are (Hello Officer, uh, yeah, sure these ARE actually toy weapons, why yes, sure!)? Surely not.
But than I do ask myself, shall they be ready to rock and rumble than? Is that the equipment needed for doing a job for your J? Where is the amour? Where is the stuff everyone likes to have with them, in case something unexpected happened? Like duct Tape™, everyone needs it. Or for that matter additional ammo.
How is that Orc trying to get the weapons on site? Just 8 Arrows and 3 ‘nades when it hits the fan, that’s all? Will this joystick be actually usable or is it *just* funny props?

And, above all, Flower sneakers?! I beg to differ, somehow a Orc Lady like that sure as hell wouldn't ... but than, who knows?

I could rant on, but that is boring for everyone involved, but I do feel somehow, that these chars are not up to snuff with the current SR Universe. Of course, this can probably change, as soon as 4th Ed. hits the self. Which I don't hope for.

So, I am not happy with the concept for the "main heroes", they look to much gang style than being runners IMO, but well, we'll see.

Having ranted that much, I sure as hell did not want to kick the artist in the gnads, as the drawing technique surly surpasses my meager skill. For Fan-Art it is topnotch.

For a product, which almost always had a high standard for Artwork it is substandard, I am sorry to say. Now, I sure think that FanPro US has to cut on every dime and nickel for releasing this one and to see whether or not the good dollars are spent right, but just let me suggest, a bit late of course and not asked for either, visuals are always and at this very moment in the gaming industry IMO. at a premium.

One should not cut too much cost in that department, specially not, if the product is the main-rulebook for a whole new generation of players (at least as it is seemed to be meant like beeing just that) as it gives the reader the hunger or the lust to play in that cool and nova-hot environment.

That’s it, again, thumbs up to the artist, thumbs down (and the big toe btw., just to make a point) for choosing these drawings for the main book of my beloved SR-Game.

And of course:

IT MUST BE MINE!!!

Regards
Daniel

None of you have payed any real attention to the art in SR3 for a while have you? The pictures we´re talking about are the meta-type illustrations. Remember how those look in SR3? Let me tell you; they look like Judge Dredd. No wonder since they hired the same illustrator that does a lot of those comics. Neat detail, eccept for the fact that he drew them like elf, ork variants of his comic book characters. They have laser rifles and oversized, metal sholder-guards for gods sake! They look like Mad Max meets D&D. Could we all please agree that this is an improvement, at least?

No.

Not remotely close.

~J

I like the metahuman pics, especially the Human and elf, quite nummy. I can see the crossbow working as far as low-tech ganger style goes.
The orc is a brick wall, the only way to guess she's female is the Girly Girl patch and a few other nods to feminine tastes. Honestly I've known less masculine bull dykes. I like the troll over all, however there is no way to tell the sheer size and weight of the fella, needs somthing we as the viewer can relate to to impress upon us just how friggin huge trolls are.
And yes, the dwarf does remind me of P.A.G.A.N. ram skin trousers. That joystick is too funny given the drone hovering over his head. Love the beard.

Improvement?

I'm not wowed by any of it. I mean, it's good, I'm just not sure it's conveying the mood I'd like to see the art convey. Looking over the portfolio of the artist who did the metatype illustrations, I'd definitely think her stuff should be in Mage, Ars Magica, or a similar game (the human illustration was originally done for a game called Deleria, a modern day faerie game) but I'm unconvinced that it portrays Shadowrun well. At least at this point.

Blah.

and edit:

How so? Im not saying Im a true fan, and you´re not. Im just so tired of people using these forums mainly to complain for the simple reason that things didn´t turn out exactly like they hoped. It´s never gonna, ok? Not for me neither. You can choose to view what you get possitively or negatively, however. Can I please be allowed to whine about you´re whining, now that you got me in a bad mood?

Pardon me if I want to at least tell what sex the character I'm looking at in the art is without relying on potentially misleading clues in the clothing.

I want a sneak peek at the special edition cover

Let's see:

The cover: I'm not sure what to say about this one. This is an SR team that obviously doesn't know how to properly communicate with each other because the Elf girl looks like she's about to leap headfirst into a place she probably shouldn't be going, considering the obvious magic being worked by the Troll. The fact that she's leaping into a hail of bullets with what is basically a big knife isn't all that concerning, I've seen Adepts and Sammy's close with and slaughter well-armed and armoured opponents in melee like that enough times to know it's doable. The Dwarf's doing his decking thing and seems oblivious to the world around him, which is, actually, pretty much what deckers have always been doing, so it's acceptable. The human sammy is... probably kicking himself for getting that 'uber-cool cyberspur' without checking to see if it was retractable first. They're all going to get an unwelcome surprise when they realize they've been surrounded by the Star, but, hey, that's part of the risk.

Overall: I like it, it's better than the SR3 cover, and more interesting than the SR2 cover.

The Human: The funky hairstyle doesn't suit me, neither does the painted face, but the rest of her seems fine. I would assume this is what she wears to impress her friends and not to pull off a job, because unless you have the Adept Power, you can't run properly in shoes like that. (the Adept Power is 'Running in Heels' costs 0.5 PP and doesn't really exist)

The Elf: I see very little wrong with this picture. She looks like a thin human with pointed ears and maybe some odd skin colouration, and that's textbook elf a-okay. As to the crossbow: They're listed in the BBB for a reason, some people use them. She's also got grenades and what could be a knife attached to her leg. As a bonus, she looks to be wearing proper boots. Not a bad setup, I like.

The Ork: Physically she looks about right, a big, tough Ork lady. There's no way I'd accept something with Body and Strength in the 8 range (SR3 numbers) to be supermodel-looking and thin. This girl's got some heft to her, and while she still can't effectively use both of those guns together unless she sprouts horns and grows two feet taller, she does look mighty impressive just carrying them. I don't like the dreds because they don't look right, and I don't like the tribal mish-mash she has going. Meh, I'm iffy on this one.

The Dwarf: Ick, bad pants. The rest of him's fine, though. With the exception of the goddamned joystick as a belt buckle. Still, overall fairly good. I like this one. So long as I keep my vision tunneled to above the waist.

The Troll: Looks like a mage, what with the crazy symbol-thing he's wearing (reminiscent of the crazy symbol thing the Combat Mage Archetype has in SR3) as such, we can forgive his apparent wussiness for a big, meaty troll. I mean, sure he's big and muscled, but he doesn't give off the aura of BIG that a fully kitted out tougher-than-a-tank Trolls have. Maybe the horns are his way of compensating so the Troll ladies don't get the idea that he's undersized 'everywhere'. Overall, an okay Troll.

Sharaloth's decision: Thumbs up.

Are you forgetting the drastic swing in gender identity that is the SR world?
Sexuality is no longer as socially enforced as it is today,
both genders wear makeup as often as not,
style of dress is more androgenous and more likely to cross what we see as typical gender choices. hence why taking gender clues from clothing and accessories isn't nearly as effective in SR as it would be otherwise. It's not considered odd to see a slightly cross-dressed male street-sam (doubt a glammed out drag queen would be a runner, but hey, stranger things have happened) so the shoes are not a "dead give away" as you said.

Then you're looking at an entirely different picture than I am, mmu1, because the Ork lady I'm looking at doesn't look fat. She's big, which is what I'd expect from an Ork who carries an assault rifle in each hand. Hell, looks wise she's pretty average if converted to human-standard. The 8 Bod, 8 Str is an example, and something a starting Ork would have little trouble acheiving in SR3 (+3 to Bod, +2 to Str), and I always thought Dwarves were pretty muscular, just short, which cuts down on the mass considerably. Elves being slimmer, well, they're elves. Of course they're slimmer, they're taller and have less body fat to deal with (or whatever pseudo-scientific explanation you want). Orks are bigger than humans, as well as tougher and stronger. That's the basics. So average Ork Lady here is big and strong. She's also dressed completely different from the other two female pictures, and has a completely different body type. That's pretty good diversity. She's no Rosengurtle Baumgartner (though I admit if this is in reference to something I did not catch it), and she's no caricature (except of SR in general, what with the two huge guns she can't technically use). She looks pretty much like an average member of the Ork fantasy race in SR, with bad hair.

Wow he is duel wielding to assault rifles!!! I want to do that!! I am going to buy this game so I can dual wield two assault rifles....


What do you mean you can't do that in the game? The art says you can!!

Oh, the artist have never played the game, thats stupid.

Just like the cover.