Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Good News
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
Kagetenshi
The Dwarf's beard still reminds me of Cthulhu.

~J
2bit
"In the rules"? ohplease.gif Please get over yourself. That ork appears to at least be capable of carrying two monstrous assault rifles while posing for a picture.

The troll, however, appears to have an octopus strapped to the back of his skull.
Shadow
I kno wyou live in a magical fantasy place where rules don't matter, so please go back there and leave us the hell alone.

I would like the art to reflect the game. Is that to much to ask.

So screw off.
Sharaloth
so... in SR you aren't allowed to carry 2 assault rifles? Wait, that's not right, you totally are. You can't effectively USE both of them at once unless you're a Troll (and even then you can't effectively use both of them at once), but you can carry them all you want.

Shadow, take yourself a hit of Bliss and chill for a bit.
2bit
I once saw a picture of a guy carrying three pistols on his person, despite not having three hands. I guess the idea that this ork may not actually fire both at the same time is too much to wrap one's head around.
Catsnightmare
Though I can't recall for sure right now, it looks like the ork chic stole those guns from Rifts or possibly the Starship Troopers movie.
winterhawk11
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The Dwarf's beard still reminds me of Cthulhu.

~J

I'm glad it's not just me. That was my first thought when I saw it.

I do like the pics, though, even the Cthulhu-bearded, sheep-pantsed dwarf. smile.gif
Eldritch
QUOTE
I do like the pics, though, even the Cthulhu-bearded, sheep-pantsed dwarf.


Don't forget to add - Atari Joystick belt-buckled
Mr. Unpronounceable
QUOTE (winterhawk11)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
The Dwarf's beard still reminds me of Cthulhu.

~J

I'm glad it's not just me. That was my first thought when I saw it.

I do like the pics, though, even the Cthulhu-bearded, sheep-pantsed dwarf. smile.gif

Maybe it's a disguise...

I mean, how accurate a description could be given of the dwarf if nobody can get past his hairy pants and tenticle beard?
Synner
QUOTE (Shadow @ Aug 4 2005, 06:01 PM)
Oh, the artist have never played the game, thats stupid.

And you know what's really, really amazing? Of all the artists you could have made that comment about and been right (the number of professional artists that have the free time to devote to playing a P&P game is ridiculously low) you chose the one that has admitted to having played the game. Go figure.
nezumi
Something bothers me about the human. I think it's the crazy face paint. I don't really like the style. In general I'm not really crazy about this artist's style, but I really couldn't say why. It just doesn't sit well with me.

The elf is okay. She's cute. I can live with the crossbow. It probably shoots magical bolts, like the bow on the Companion.

The ork bothers me. Something about the face. It feels forced, somehow. But I don't mind an overweight ork in a party. The two guns IS sort of silly. It either implies she can fire them both at once (which isn't supported by the system) or that she likes to carry around two giant but otherwise identical weapons for purposes unknown. Either one seems a bit silly.

I think the dwarf is making up for something with his belt buckle.

I think, discounting the dwarf and troll, there's something about her faces that bothers me. It's like she took a photo, changed the colors and lines, then superimposed it on a body. It just doesn't mesh quite right and it sets my teeth on edge. I'm not so keen on her.
Nikoli
Maybe it gets supported in 4th, who knows.
SL James
QUOTE (nezumi @ Aug 4 2005, 01:30 PM)
I think the dwarf is making up for something with his belt buckle.

I think that he must have gone to a lot of trouble to find an old Atari controller to wear as a fashion accessory.

QUOTE (Nikoli)
Maybe it gets supported in 4th, who knows.

That'd be awesome! Then I could run around with twin M-16s Goldeneye-style.
Nyxll
I think the artists style is something that I like. I just really am disturbed by the execusion.

I figured since is the flagship book for a whole new edition it would have been given the royal treatment. I mean when you have such a large negative outcry, one would think they would pay attention to that, and get something that would be more accepted. It could be that they ran this by someone's 5 year old blind son, and they liked it so they decided that was a good enough sample. But somehow I do not think this will get the OOOoooOOOOoo factor that a NEW Edition disserves., and THAT mega frustrates me since I would like to see others in my area start to play.

The meta pictures are not bad. I rather like the style even if there are some elements like the sheep pants that make me laugh. I hope the interior art has some redemtive value, but really. Well, here's hoping edition 5 will be out soon with a leason learned, and a marketing budget.

At least it is 1 step closer to killing the line and the possibility of open source.

QUOTE
you chose the one that has admitted to having played the game. Go figure.


She may have played the game .... but did she "get it"?
Shadow
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (Shadow @ Aug 4 2005, 06:01 PM)
Oh, the artist have never played the game, thats stupid.

And you know what's really, really amazing? Of all the artists you could have made that comment about and been right (the number of professional artists that have the free time to devote to playing a P&P game is ridiculously low) you chose the one that has admitted to having played the game. Go figure.

Then why draw an Orc holding 2 AR's like she (it whatever) is using them? Why not draw one AR? Why do something that implies that the orc is dual wielding AR's?

What I don't get is why the art doesn't reflect the game inside the books.
FrostyNSO
I think they should use the picture of Plumber 2065 for the ork.
Nyxll
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
I think they should use the picture of Plumber 2065 for the ork.

OMG LMAO!!!! I agree. Just have to add some hair back in.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Nyxll)
At least it is 1 step closer to killing the line and the possibility of open source.

What does that really get us? The answer is very little. We've already got some "open-source" development in the SR3R project, and both that and the original rules are available for forking. The only things we don't get access to are the copyrighted and trademarked materials, but unless you're going to try selling what you make it's easy to avoid running afoul of those.

~J
Nyxll
QUOTE
We've already got some "open-source" development in the SR3R project, and both that and the original rules are available for forking.


Where is that development taking place? I hear about it ... but I have not been able to track anything down.
winterhawk11
I just figured out something about the ork:

She looks like Rosie O'Donnell.

Well? smile.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Nyxll)
Where is that development taking place? I hear about it ... but I have not been able to track anything down.

The master thread. Relevant links on the top of the page.

~J
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Euchrid)

Heels are mandatory on all female characters, as are exposed midriffs and funky accessories. Funky accessories will increase your combat pool.

"...hey, you ever try to do a flying drop kick in 4 in spike heels? It ain't pretty. No way I'm going to take negative modifiers on my acrobatics..."
wagnern
There is some framing with the alley walls on either side, and some slight movement leading the eye up and out of the alley. But that is all. You look at it, and your eye is lead up and out of the picture. It is cluttered and uninteresting, the subjects stand vurtualy on top of one another, nesseled in the middle of the picture, afraid of the edges of the frame. Take a look at a good cover, like Privateer presses Warmachine Prime. It is dynamic, inetersting, there is a lot going on, but it is not random clutter. They are also not afraid of the edge of the picture.

Now, the race examples below, I guess 80's punk gave way. Now don't get me wrong, I was geting sick of elfs with mohawks, but, the 'human' would be more at home in a White Wolf Vampire book or something like that. Then agian, who is to say there is no goth vampire wanta bees in the shadows? Now the Dwarf looks cool but his pants are gust silly, and the ork, well, I hope the picture is not done, because the hair (I can only assume that is what it is) does not mesh with the picture. The two guns? Maby the artist did not want to figure out orkish female anatomy so decided to cover the chest with the debre from some bird and her hips/waist with two guns? I don't know.

Samoth
those pictures are awful.
arcady
The dwarf in the B&Ws almost looks like one of the guys at the 'Folsom Street Fair' - which is a mix of 'gay / BDSM / leather' themes in an annual street fair here in the city...

All you'd need to do to make him fit for some of the guy's I've seen (hey, they hold the fair across the way from Costco) is to remove the pants under his chaps for a thong, or less...

The makeup on the human in the B&Ws just doesn't work...

The Dwarf in the cover makes me think grandma is about to give me some cookies...

I do like the elf in the B&Ws, but that's about it.
arcady
Also, the B&W Ork... she doesn't look like an Ork, just like a heavy set human woman with plastic teeth for halloween...

There's nothing other than the teeth in the entire pictire that make her look at all like anything other than the average build for a 'gamer chic' with dreads...


And I do -not- want to know about the positioning of that Joystick on the dwarf. It definatley looks like a San Francisco in the 70s kind of thing... eek.gif
arcady
QUOTE (Nyxll)
I figured since is the flagship book for a whole new edition it would have been given the royal treatment.    I mean when you have such a large negative outcry, one would think they would pay attention to that, and get something that would be more accepted.

Budgets and tastes of the art director (who for an RPG company is usually the same person as the CEO, CFO, mail-room clerk, Janitor, Human Resources, IT guy, and receptionist...).

This happened with the cover to 'Silver Age Sentinels' as well, the fans there went as far as photoshoping up their own covers that added gags to the one GoO announced. I posted one myself even...

The publisher though, just liked it and said 'I don't care, I like it'.
Ellery
I don't care for the human. The artwork is of poor quality: the legs are misshapen and/or twisted, the navel is unanatomically low, the various body parts have thick lines that make them look pasted on (but not in such an obvious way as to constitute an obvious style), and the face looks two-dimensional, like a mask (but it is not clear that the person is wearing a mask--no shadows at the edges, for instance). There are also questionable aspects about what is depicted: even if the girl is going to a party, the sword is placed in such a way as to make it difficult to walk and impossible to sit down, and the dagger would poke her in her leg repeatedly as she tries to move. I assume from the platforms that she's going to a party--why do I want a picture of a runner who is going to a party?

The elf is pretty good. She's cute, has style, and is reasonably well drawn (aside from arms that are a little too long, and a lazy right eye). I'm not sure that the crossbow would be too comfortable to run with, but it's overall not bad.

The ork is so-so. The drawing quality is slightly better than the human but worse than the elf (somewhat inconsistent lighting direction, protruding teeth that look pasted on top of the face, absurdly narrow rifle handles, sunglasses with one arm that must be sticking directly into her head (or folded, in which case the glasses should fall off), hair that seems to ooze and melt into her jacket rather than falling over her shoulders). In terms of content, only the flower slippers seem out of place--good conception, mediocre execution.

The dwarf is an exercise in contrasts. Top half? Great! He's a cool, bad-ass dude (you know that because he has tattoos and shades!). Bottom half? Joystick? Tentacle pants? Good grief. The top half of the picture's drawn pretty well, too, but one can't even tell whether the bottom half was drawn well because it's just a bunch of squiggles. I think the artist lost inspiration halfway through, or something. Put him behind a bench and the picture'd look great.

The troll is again pretty good. He looks like he's rather bored with having his portrait drawn, but the quality is good (even the glowing symbols change the lighting) and there's nothing massively out of place. And hey--nice horns!

So from my perspective it's a mixed bag--but artwork usually is.
Mugzy
I can forgive the fact that the ork in fact does look like Rosie O'Donnell, and inferring the use of dual assaul rifles, an action that cannot be done. I can even forgive the sheep pants on the dwarf (though sticking him behind a bench so you cant see them would make that one perfect).

The human, however, is the only one I can't stand. The face paint, the position of the body, and the other things Ellery pointed out all make this one sub-par. But... the one thing I can't stand about the picture, is the absurd anime hair pigtails.

And here I was hoping they'd get away from the style of "Anime-Run," that has not been prolific in the books, but has crept its way into the various MUDs and a few games out there.

Nyxll
If you check out the artist's website ... you will see that she starts with photographs of people, then mods them.

QUOTE
Budgets and tastes of the art director (who for an RPG company is usually the same person as the CEO, CFO, mail-room clerk, Janitor, Human Resources, IT guy, and receptionist...).


This also happened with the Pontiac Aztek. I am afraid that my comments were made in haste above. That orc was exceptionally bad.

Makes me wonder what it really takes to insert a clue into people's head. frown.gif
Homme-qui-rigole
Did you notice that both dwarf (the one from the cover and the other from meta pics) had both ugly pants? Maybe dwarfs got racial flaw : "Always wear ugly pants" in SR4... Can a playtester confirm that? rotfl.gif
Ancient History
They're baggy pants. To cover up their tremendous wangs.
Nyxll
since all dwarves in 4th edition are now scottish, and are played with a thick accent, their passtime is now shagging sheep and drinking beer. This fella shagged his sheep so hard that it's wool came off. He just hasn't had time to clean up.
Ancient History
Be fair. He might also be Welsh or Australian.
Rev
I think that the "loose alliances" cover which happened to be on the same page as the sr4 cover when I looked at it is much stronger. Better composition, leads the eye first to the two big guys standing up, then to the ones leaning over below who's gaze brings you to whatever is under the sheet.

Oh well, I guess the odds are that lots of sourcebooks will have better covers than the one main book! smile.gif
SL James
QUOTE (Rev)
I think that the "loose alliances" cover which happened to be on the same page as the sr4 cover when I looked at it is much stronger. Better composition, leads the eye first to the two big guys standing up, then to the ones leaning over below who's gaze brings you to whatever is under the sheet.

Ha! I noticed that too, and the contrast is shocking.
DrJest
I have absolutely no knowledge of how to draw, what things are called, or anything like that. I completely fail to understand the majority of modern art, which to me looks like random splatters and squiggles.

In short, a typical Joe Average smile.gif So, my completely unlearned opinions on the art:

Overall, the artist has some talent going for her, but I don't necessarily approve of her execution.

Cover: I'm sorry, I really am, but I hate it. It's a clusterfrag in progress, the most unprofessional bunch of wazzocks I've seen in a long time. Why are they standing right in front of the door? Do they want to get shot? Why is the human standing with his back to the action? And the human and dwarf's clothing, well... yeah... or more accurately, NO. Again, it's done well, but the content is awful.

Human: You know who that is? The martyr chick from the Hunter game series (Xbox and PS I think). I forget her name, Cassandra maybe? Anyway, it's her.
There's something I can't put my finger on about the posture that's somehow wrong. Not sure what it is.
Kabuki-face - is that a mask or just makeup? Firming that up either way would be good, it's too ambiguous.
THe hair... bad. Bad, bad hair. Even assuming that a runner would have hair that long (and I'd say most wouldn't - too easy to grab/get trapped) it would surely be kept neatly out of the way.
The clothes and accessories... basically don't match. Either she's going to a party (clothes and shoes say so) or she's on business (sword and knife say so). If she's on a run, she's an idiot for wearing that stuff.

Elf: Basially okay. The "freckles" I thought were tribal marks. Bell bottoms, unconvincing. Clothes in general, in fact, are again missing the point. This is not someone planning to do a shadowrun, potential armour on the fronts of her thighs notwithstanding. Proportions... again, make the eyes think there's something wrong.

Ork: Meh. Okay, I guess. The two AR's definitely infer using both at once. Floral shoes silly, proportions in the head/shoulder area make my eyes look for something wrong that might not be. Teeth not good, as mentioned elsewhere they look like bad plastic toys.

Dwarf. Rigger? Is that a drone? For the love of GOD change those trousers and that damn belt buckle. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY I play with would take that seriously. Everyone would be doing the Goat Dance from Dragnet and mocking him severely.

Troll: He makes me think of somebody huge and black, I can't think of who right now. Maybe the evil sidekick from The Mummy Returns, the one with the grudge against Ardeth Bey. Anyway... Probably my favourite of the bunch, fewer issues with the eyes going "there's something not right here". Tabard thing a bit disconcerting, but I guess it could be explained as a fetish of some kind. At least this one looks like he's ready to do the job.

Overall: I can't figure out what the artist is trying to convey here. Her metatypes look like clubgoers with weapons tacked on, and the cover (is it the same artist?) is deeply, deeply bad - not badly drawn, but bad from the point of view of "imitate these characters in your game and you will die. Lots."
Critias
QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 4 2005, 05:28 AM)
QUOTE (Critias)
But, well, at least it's dark.  Darker, at least.

Darker than what? Butterflies and care bears?

Darker, very specifically, than earlier versions of the picture. It used to look like the short bus had just dropped off the very special class of 2070 at high noon for a day trip to a research facility, or something.

At least it's -- in terms of color only, don't get me wrong -- darker, in this version of the image. Not so bright and sunny. I'm not saying the tone of the picture or quality of the artwork is "dark" in a gritty or realistic or bloody or gutter-fighting sense. I'm saying it's composed of physical darker colors than previously, to the point where it now may or may not be high fucking noon any more. It could be, I dunno, dusk. Or dawn. Or nap time.

Which is, well, the only even remotely positive thing I could find to say about the fucking thing.
SL James
Oh.

My mistake.
Ol' Scratch
Wow. This just looks really.... amateurish. The new logo, and particularly the two fonts there, especially. In the end it doesn't look like a new edition at all. Just more of the same old stuff, just uglier and less "buy me"ish.

Going through all this work to create a new system, then completely botching it by doing nothing to improve the actual image. Pretty sad. frown.gif

And no offense really intended to those responsible for the art itself (well, okay, maybe towards the picture... I'm sorry, it bites). I'm sure you did the best you could. It just isn't very inspiring and does nothing to convey what it should convey -- that this is a completely new game targeted for a completely new audience.
Critias
Instead it's a completely new game carefully crafted to alienate their existing fan base -- halfway towards the goal of targeting a new audience, but not quite managing it.

Huzzah!
Ellery
The fonts aren't too exciting (especially the bottom one--it looks bloated), but the color scheme of the silver "Shadowrun" with the pale blue snaky S-thing is good. Those colors also tie in nicely to the main part of the cover. The cover looks like a circuit board--and it's pretty well done as far as circuit boards go, being both reasonably attractive from a distance and integrating nicely into the frame for the picture without looking like cheap junk.

I think the cover art, minus the actual picture in the middle, is pretty good. Better than SR3, which is just a black frame with some colored lines in it. The "Shadowrun" font is nicer in SR3, I think, but the "Third Edition" font looks just as goofy as the "Fourth Edition" font to my eye. Edition numbering seems to have a problem with fonts!

Second edition doesn't have quite as good a border as SR4, but it's more intricate than SR3 at least. The picture is, IMO, better both in terms of quality (detail, shadows, perspective) and subject (young adults/kids on the street doing something they shouldn't and getting in trouble with gangers or other low-life thugs--actually taking cover, looking towards the action, not dangling on random chains or with spurs coming out of the inside of their wrist on a arm that was put on inside-out). Then again, Larry Elmore produces quality work (even if he suffers from the female-PCs-wear-too-little disease like most fantasy artists).

QUOTE (Larry Elmore's FAQ)
Q. What gives you inspiration?

A. I am inspired in two ways: By the book - I read the book, and pick a scene that represents the total feeling I get from the book. My own ideas - Through music, reading, daydreaming, seasons, people...just about anything can give me inspiration.
Maybe this is part of the reason why the SR2 cover feels like Shadowrun.
Ellery
You know, if you look at Echo's page you can find that same picture of a human in color and with the legs chopped off. The human looks pretty good there. FanPro doesn't seem to be getting Echo's best work (and she does seem to do some pretty nice work).

Rather sad.
Ol' Scratch
Sweet zombie Jesus. I hadn't scrolled down on the page until now after wondering what Ellery was referring to.

I hate to say it, but I do believe I just jumped over to the "gah!" side of the fence. I could keep an open mind about on-the-surface subpar game mechanics. I could rationalize to myself how the new system would likely work well with those mechanics. But the artwork... for the dear love of God... THE ARTWORK! <breaks down into uncontrollable sobbing>

I'm sorry, Echo. I can appreciate your techniques and style, but... that's just wrong. Just... just wrong. On so many levels. So. Many. Levels. Especially with what you did to my beloved orks and dwarfs. GAH! <closes that window before he does something drastic>
nezumi
QUOTE (Nyxll @ Aug 4 2005, 05:52 PM)
If you check out the artist's website ... you will see that she starts with photographs of people, then mods them.

I thought so. Funny, that's the way artists cheat, they take a photo and draw over it. GENERALLY that results in appropriate proportions, coloration, etc. In this case it just results in a neither hither nor thither look which disturbs the eye. Good for WW, not good for Shadowrun. We want *PROFESSIONALS* not angsty teens. Blech.

QUOTE
Everyone would be doing the Goat Dance from Dragnet and mocking him severely.


I just got this great image of the poor dwarf walking home, dragging his wooly pants behind him so he can cry himself to sleep on his giant cthulu pillow.

Seriously though, what's with the bad pants on dwarves? Do they think only other dwarves will see them? Are they how dwarves secretly communicate with each other? Is the orange dwarf showing she's ready for breeding season and the wooly dwarf trying to strut his stuff? You'd think since they spend all day looking at everyone ELSE's pants, that's the one aspect of fashion they'd grasp.
nezumi
(In all fairness, I showed the site to my wife, who's a professional artist. She said the following:

Cover: "it's alright. Professionally, it looks like just a little over neo-pro. Nothing too spectacular. Looks like something a semi-talented college student could do.... Most of that was regarding her cover, which sucks butt."

(That is recompiled over a chat. She's trying to be nice, I think. A sensitive artist to the end.)

The characters:
"Honestly, if the cover isn't hers, I'd give her all good reviews. [The dwarf] could be better, but it's better than the cover. I have nothing bad to say other than shame on her if she draws over photos. Taking a reference photo is one thing... but drawing over them is almost cheating. But I think the art is well done, textures are rendered nicely for the genre, (although it does look a little traditional fantasy), some of the images are funny, and the anatomy is well done. Excellent composition and visually interesting. The shadows under them aren't very well done. the hair and facial texture on the Ork shaman could use a lil work. It looks like her face is made of a few melting layers. Goggles could use some work. [The troll], most of the body seems unfinished. Everything below the waist."

The interviewer:
"Nezumi, you're really sexy. Lets go snuggle."
Ancient History
<insert the 14-letter s-word>
nezumi
QUOTE (Ancient History)
<insert the 14-letter s-word>

Supercalafragilistic? No, that's too many...
Ancient History
[ Spoiler ]
Jrayjoker
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Aug 5 2005, 09:08 AM)
[ Spoiler ]

Ach! My eyes!

Dammit. Now I have to ritually purify myself to purge the image of DSers snuggling.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012