ROFL
AH, if you weren't already my geek hero, you are now.

Cover: Ick. Actually just the drawing, Im digging everything else.

I must be alone, but Im liking the dwarf. Especally the wolly chaps. Its a rigger thing. It must be. Besides, remember the dwarf on the cover of CC? THAT was bad fasion sence (but he did accesoricize with a machinegun, so its a wash).

Someone has pointed out the pregnant devil rat on the cover, right?

Thats actually a demon rat, devil rats are hairless. Or it's just a regular rat, in supersize. It does look pregnant though.

hrm.. looking at the picture again, and taking into account the runners are fighting their way OUT of the ZIC building...Maybe the pregnant demon rat is the extractee?

To those commenting on taking a picture of someone and drawing over it as a method of making art.... you do realize that Bradstreet's method starts off similarly, but oftentimes doesn't even add original artwork? That basically his art is (or at least was, and I don't believe he's changed his process that much) largely in choosing a photograph and applying a selection of digital filters?

Not saying you have to like this or not like his, but it isn't "cheating" to do that. It's just a process. And with that, let the bitching continue.... *handwave*

I don't care how the art comes into being, so long as it's good and doesn't give people the wrong idea. The flying cars on the cover of SR books give people the idea that they can realistically purchase VTOL sedans, and they (at least, the people I've introduced to the game who had seen flying cars in the art) end up disappointed. The twin-assault-rifle thing might give people the idea that, in-game or whatever, running around with a pair of assault rifles is a good idea.

Frankly, I'm not sure that presenting the base metarace images as being heavily armed is such a good idea. It leads to people thinking it's cool for their character to walk around shopping malls with autocannons, or keep a pair of samurai swords on them when they go out to pick up cigarettes. Since this is both cheesy and stated as unacceptable in flavor text, it's probably not the impression you want to convey to people when they flip through the book. I know a lot of people who got their first spark of interest in games by flipping through the sourcebooks and glancing over the artwork.

But that's just my two cents.

Pickup an SR1. Find the picture at the weapons section, I believe it has a guy with a button that states "Suck cheese shark face" that's a bradstreet pic. or open up an original world of Darkness book, especially vampire the masquerade, most of the work in there is bradstreet. Buddy of mine knew some of the folks that submitted pics to bradstreet for the ealry WoD books and he was nameing the folks in the picture. His "process" and "filter" was to keep applying "convert to line drawing" in his art program then clean it up manually and draw in any necessary add-ins for genre flavor. that's a dumbed down version but you get the idea.

nezumi said:

And the ideas presented by this artwork sucks.

I really love SR, and I want SR4 to do well. I just don't see how it can when everything they have showed us has sucked eggs. I know they keep saying "you haven't seen everything" but you would think they would show us something good just on accident.

How can the stuff we haven't seen be any good if the stuff we have isn't?

Nezumi: The story about Columbus and the egg goes something like this: Columbus was presenting his idea about going on a long journey to find a route to India by sea (although he would end up in America in stead) to some rich folks in Spain or Portugal or were ever it was, in order to get finansial support. They all thought it was crazy and asked him why he should be the one doing it when nobody else had. Then he said he would show them why, and put a boiled egg on the table. He then asked the men to place the egg in a standing position. They tried and tried but couldn´t ballance the egg obviously. So Columbus eventualy did it him self. By smashing the egg down on the table so that the bottom end flattened. The rich geezers were then in an outrage saying "anybody could do that", "that took no SKILL ". So Columbus said "then why didn´t you do it?"

So are you suggesting that this art is somehow 'inspired' or 'deep' or 'creative' or even 'attractive'?

Drawing on a picture is rarely creative. Certainly there are exceptions, but just to avoid having to learn proportions it isn't. In this particular case not only is not not creative, it's actually ugly. The ork looks like the teeth were photoshopped on. The human is confusing because of that silly mask. I *SUSPECT* these are results from basing it off a picture.

Yes, you can make some art through drawing on pictures. You can also get someone with no idea what she's doing to take someone else's work, use a filter and claim credit for effectively copyright infringement. In this case, you've simply ended up with someone who doesn't understand how to use the media completely and has relied on it too much as a crutch (again, as demonstrated by ork teeth and human face) and it lowers the quality of the work.

Columbus has freed himself from the preconception that the egg needs to be edible afterwards, just as this artist has been freed from the preconception that the final product needs to look half-decent.

I stand agog.

~J

This had to do with you´re (nezumi´s) story about Van Gogh and how it generally is frowned upon in the art community to draw over photographs, not about the Shadowrun pictures.

It's a valid criticism from certain breeds of artist—the final work demonstrates less technical skill, and it is done many times not because that is the creative vision but because it's easier.

That said, my problem with that technique being used here (if indeed it is) isn't that it's inherently bad, but because it looks like that's what has been done. If it didn't look like they were photos drawn over badly it wouldn't matter, even if they were indeed drawn-over photos.

~J

I'm not getting into the discussion of whether drawing on photographs is cool or not ("YOUR MOTHER'S A TRACER!"), but let me just say this: this art pisses me off.

Here's what I want an explanation for: How come the company who has access to artists that can produce artwork like this, this or even this decides to just go ahead with this cover? Why? Does anyone know?

On a related note, what are the chances of getting the name of the decision maker in this case? I feel like writing a really angry mail or two.

Kagetenshi: That has me asking, technical skill at what? A fantasy artist with perfect proportions and shading down tight probably doesn´t have the skills needed to produce one of Bradstreets pictures in the technique he´s using. If he would critisize Bradstreet only based on the technique it would be a childish comparision game of "mine is better than yours".

honestly this is what i have to say, I will start with the bottom picture and work my way up to the cover..

nice troll mage, what are your robes a focus or did you do them in glo paint. i mean seriously, he looks like a klingon with horns...

nice dwarf rigger, he looks like he belongs on West Coast Choppers along with little paulie and those guys or on monster garage with JJ....I actually like this one

i find myself abashed to say i have to agree with the doc funkenstien on the matter of the Orc...and the twin assault rifles, i mean come on even Arnold couldnt pull that off

as for the elf, very D&D esque, what she supposed to be, a ranger....

the only other one i like besides the dwarf is the oriental human, little stereotypical with the sword, but allowable (edit) i take that back because i just noticed something....she's a poser...i cant think of anyone outside of a bad john woo film who could use a katana in platform heal boots.

and i have to ask this, why all the "minorities" i dont think a single one of these characters was ment to be white or even native american, the dwarf might have been but i have this feeling he was ment to be hispanic for some reason, dont know just a feeling

now for the cover, ow and i zoomed in real close, it is knee high boots with a mini-skirt and hosiery with a low slung pistol holster on the camera side, I've said it before and i will say it again, this sucks great big one....it gives the feeling to me of,
"this is just ho humm nothing special" at least the 3rd ED cover gave you a lot of action to wonder about, i mean falling magic user holy hanna i hope the guy with the gun can keep us covered....

The elf is also a poser. There's no way she got that posture without heels.

~J

or anything with pointy teeth really.

Or anything that can be described as "thing"

That should be on the drop bear thread

That border and the cropping of the picture does help some. That is somewhat similar to what Buzzed <a href="http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=8759&hl=crop&st=150#entry272505">gave as an example cropping</a>. It still isn't much to my liking though.

The choice of an, what is that art nouveau style, for SR art seems like an odd choice. If you are trying to sell new-age books, then sure here work seems very good. Looking through her portfolio confirms that.

Still i don't seem them as absolutely horrible, just a bit silly at times. Even the Fraggle Rock girl with the painted face.

That border and the cropping of the picture does help some. That is somewhat similar to what Buzzed gave as an example cropping. Overall though it still isn't much to my liking, the characters possing seems awkward and there positioning is too crowded.

The choice of an, what is that art nouveau style, for SR art seems odd. If you are trying to sell new-age books, then sure here work seems very good. Looking through her portfolio confirms that.

Still i don't seem them as absolutely horrible, just a bit silly at times. Even the Fraggle Rock girl with the painted face. (the colour version in her portfolio is a much better version of the woman herself, just dump the mirror/fog swirlies and it'd really work for me).

Please God in heaven, please, please, please keep MacDougall. That's all I ask. Have some mercy for a loyal fan.

And I'm still waiting for that fan art cover. I know we have an artist around here. Trace over some people if you have to.

Larry MacDougal?

Are you kidding?

Just started to read the thread. ... And god, the pictures suck! Everys meta-race has at least one detail which destroys the whole picture. The shoes and the katana of the human, the silly pants of the dwarf or the "Battlefield Earth" look of the ork. Don't forget the ugly horns of the troll, which look like hairs.

Bah.

Will we finally get the elusive troll girl pictuer? That's the one and only thing that the-game-what-may-not-be-spoken has better than SR (In my fanboy opinion), is that right in the main book there is a picture of a male and a female of the various races.

Isn't the catholic schoolgirl towards the end of Target: Matrix a troll?

Love that picture.

~J

I like the troll's horns.

That's all I like, but still.

Maybe someone mentioned it before, but I was just going through the pictures again to look at the troll (and that is so NOT a girl...), and it struck me - why the hell does everyone, except for the one person holding two guns, have their arms folded? Bad haircuts, worse clothes, tattoos, arms folded across the chest... These guys look like they're posing for Monster Garage audition tapes.

I like pretty much all the race profiles except for the poses and the weapons in the female ork's arms (it says "Girly Girl" on her coat and she has flowers on her shoes and on the spiked gloves, totally cool). Dwarf's pants = cool (nice dragon in the smoke, too), troll shoes = out of fashion (but what do you expect for a stoopid trog), and of course we have the poser elf per usual.

Not that this necessairily means anything, but the troll's pants pocket says in really big letters BIG STEVE, is that a brand? because if not I think its name is Steve.