Full Version: North America Map
dude, pay attention. i just said that the little stuff is basically okay because the ramifications are easier to ignore. the ramifications of a world-ending event are slightly more difficult to put out of mind.
| QUOTE (Ellery @ Aug 18 2005, 10:12 PM) | ||
Okay, so you don't know much about science, and can't distinguish possible future developments from utter absurdity--we get the picture. |
You're right. In sixty years I could grow horns or be possessed by bug spirits from beyond our universe. How could I have been so blind.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| dude, pay attention. i just said that the little stuff is basically okay because the ramifications are easier to ignore. the ramifications of a world-ending event are slightly more difficult to put out of mind. |
Who says it has to be world ending? Just because scientifically it does, in our universe, doesn't mean that it destroys Shadowrun, which until we see the IC explanation, we have no reason to believe.
oh, right, i forgot. because magic exists, we no longer have to pay attention to things which are factually true.
Nope, we just have to accept that we may not be able to explain them.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| oh, right, i forgot. because magic exists, we no longer have to pay attention to things which are factually true. |
or maybe just because we're playing a game?
Look, I understand where you're coming from. I happen to disagree, and I'm not going to argue about it anymore.
i enjoy a measure of realism in my games. yes, 'realism' has to be taken with a grain of salt because of the existence of the fantastic in SR. that doesn't mean that it should be thrown out the window completely.
Becuase if the IC back drop is anwhere near reasonable then Seattle would not have one stone ontop of another when said thing hapened. because without magic you are not playing shadowrun but seeingas you could in the CFS 15 years without this bullshit you did not need to make it happen. Because even you removed those major cities from the CFS, it is still a bigger and jucier prize than Seattle is.
If we want to be technical, magic is perfect possible under current science.
If we accept the theory that all the universe amounts to is different expressions of waveforms, then it is quite possible that all magic does is influence and change the already-existing waveforms to create effects that normally would not happen on their own. Thus, the "cycle of magic" is really just the Earth moving through regions of the universe where waveforms are easy to manipulate by those with certain brain waves and into areas where it isn't. The rest can be explained using string theory. There. Now magic can fit under pseudo-scientific jibber-jabber.
Back to your regularly-scheduled case of Nerbert failing to comprehend and getting the smackdown as a result.
If we accept the theory that all the universe amounts to is different expressions of waveforms, then it is quite possible that all magic does is influence and change the already-existing waveforms to create effects that normally would not happen on their own. Thus, the "cycle of magic" is really just the Earth moving through regions of the universe where waveforms are easy to manipulate by those with certain brain waves and into areas where it isn't. The rest can be explained using string theory. There. Now magic can fit under pseudo-scientific jibber-jabber.
Back to your regularly-scheduled case of Nerbert failing to comprehend and getting the smackdown as a result.
Ok, hows this for you? This traveling through different waveforms in space causes Earth to traverse into an alternate universe, and the Earth from that alternate universe traverses into this one. The only difference between them is that is a significant portion of California is a couple miles to the west.
When creating a product, it's a bad idea to do things that certain people find incredibly stupid, for reasons explained below.
It's fine if you don't care what happened to California. After reading a few articles on plate tectonics and such, you might care more, but that's not the point. Right now you don't care, and view it as a potentially interesting story element--that's fine.
But other people find such events as jarring as small arachnids using them as shuttlecocks for an inter-city badmitton game, because they do know a thing or two about how the world works. Southern CA disappearing gives the same stupid feeling as a game where rounds for a pistol weigh 2kg each. It's just blatantly wrong.
There are two ways to use that. One is to make it the focus of the game. "Look, this is wrong, and I'm going to tell you why--and look how cool it is!" If I were to destroy southern CA in a game that was otherwise based on the present-day, I'd make that the entire focus of the game. It would be the apocalyptic post-Orange County Event game. Bands of starving refugees would wander the streets of Boston, piecing together fragmented reports about the destruction of southern CA and the loss of the entire Pacific rim in a giant tidal wave. Rumors circulate that New York was flooded. And so on. That game could be cool.
The other way to use that is to just toss it in, or make it a minor point. "Heavy pistol clip. 10 rounds. 20kg." That destroys suspension of disbelief for anyone who knows it's wrong. That breaks the setting for some people, and adds almost nothing for others. That's a bad deal.
So it's generally a bad idea to do super-collossal mega-majorly-vast things if you're not going to focus on them. People will either be really distracted/annoyed/think the designers are idiots, or they will go, "Oh, huh. That's sorta cool. I guess."
As I've said before, there is one way out that I'd grudgingly accept; the others would range from horribly bad to impossibly bad.
It's fine if you don't care what happened to California. After reading a few articles on plate tectonics and such, you might care more, but that's not the point. Right now you don't care, and view it as a potentially interesting story element--that's fine.
But other people find such events as jarring as small arachnids using them as shuttlecocks for an inter-city badmitton game, because they do know a thing or two about how the world works. Southern CA disappearing gives the same stupid feeling as a game where rounds for a pistol weigh 2kg each. It's just blatantly wrong.
There are two ways to use that. One is to make it the focus of the game. "Look, this is wrong, and I'm going to tell you why--and look how cool it is!" If I were to destroy southern CA in a game that was otherwise based on the present-day, I'd make that the entire focus of the game. It would be the apocalyptic post-Orange County Event game. Bands of starving refugees would wander the streets of Boston, piecing together fragmented reports about the destruction of southern CA and the loss of the entire Pacific rim in a giant tidal wave. Rumors circulate that New York was flooded. And so on. That game could be cool.
The other way to use that is to just toss it in, or make it a minor point. "Heavy pistol clip. 10 rounds. 20kg." That destroys suspension of disbelief for anyone who knows it's wrong. That breaks the setting for some people, and adds almost nothing for others. That's a bad deal.
So it's generally a bad idea to do super-collossal mega-majorly-vast things if you're not going to focus on them. People will either be really distracted/annoyed/think the designers are idiots, or they will go, "Oh, huh. That's sorta cool. I guess."
As I've said before, there is one way out that I'd grudgingly accept; the others would range from horribly bad to impossibly bad.
Yeah, well, they screwed up.
Not to sound too anti-SR4 but... The whole system feels that way to me.
Not to sound too anti-SR4 but... The whole system feels that way to me.
Ah hell, we have seen worse, haven't we?
The explanation of an astral vortex sounds good enough to me. Better than explanations for smurf kingdoms popping up like mushrooms in Germany. Better than subterranean immortal dwarves living in giant shroom houses (you never read the original German novels. Be glad you never had to. They make 'Terminus Experiment' look well written and sensible). Better than the original France book either, from what I read. Better than the NYC setting from NAGNA. Not much worse than old SoCal's background, either.
In SR1's backstory, New York, a cities that, for all I know, is FAR FROM ANY FAULTLINE, was flattened in an out-of-the-blue magnitude 8 earthquake. How's that for fucking up a place. And that'S from glorious old FASA days, when there were rives of milk and honey and sourcebooks where every item got an image and a whole page each.
Get over it. If they only fuck up SoCal, I could care less, especially if Hongkong becomes a good setting. Seattle was really becoming stale, and Europe isn't quite the alternative (excluding Portugal, Poland and the other outlying countries. Those were covered rather nicely).
The explanation of an astral vortex sounds good enough to me. Better than explanations for smurf kingdoms popping up like mushrooms in Germany. Better than subterranean immortal dwarves living in giant shroom houses (you never read the original German novels. Be glad you never had to. They make 'Terminus Experiment' look well written and sensible). Better than the original France book either, from what I read. Better than the NYC setting from NAGNA. Not much worse than old SoCal's background, either.
In SR1's backstory, New York, a cities that, for all I know, is FAR FROM ANY FAULTLINE, was flattened in an out-of-the-blue magnitude 8 earthquake. How's that for fucking up a place. And that'S from glorious old FASA days, when there were rives of milk and honey and sourcebooks where every item got an image and a whole page each.
Get over it. If they only fuck up SoCal, I could care less, especially if Hongkong becomes a good setting. Seattle was really becoming stale, and Europe isn't quite the alternative (excluding Portugal, Poland and the other outlying countries. Those were covered rather nicely).
Hermit: What they don't tell Europeans is that Manhattan sits on a fault line, actually.
There's one that runs under 125th street.
However....What FASA ignored is that no quake beyond a 5.2 has EVER been recorded in the Northeastern US in the last 300+ years, and that buildings in the region are built to withstand at least a 7 on the Richter Scale.
Also...They've never outright changed the freakin geography of the world before. Like, say, ripping a piece off a continent.
There's one that runs under 125th street.
However....What FASA ignored is that no quake beyond a 5.2 has EVER been recorded in the Northeastern US in the last 300+ years, and that buildings in the region are built to withstand at least a 7 on the Richter Scale.
Also...They've never outright changed the freakin geography of the world before. Like, say, ripping a piece off a continent.
Fault lines in the metro/NYC area.
I remember the GWB quake in 1989; I lived in Fort Lee, NJ at the time, right where the bridge enters NJ. It was the middle of the night, and I woke up thinking it was the boiler in my house blowing up
.
I remember the GWB quake in 1989; I lived in Fort Lee, NJ at the time, right where the bridge enters NJ. It was the middle of the night, and I woke up thinking it was the boiler in my house blowing up
.
| QUOTE (Penta) |
| Hermit: What they don't tell Europeans is that Manhattan sits on a fault line, actually. There's one that runs under 125th street. However....What FASA ignored is that no quake beyond a 5.2 has EVER been recorded in the Northeastern US in the last 300+ years, and that buildings in the region are built to withstand at least a 7 on the Richter Scale. |
Ooh, three hundred years, so long…
Yeah, the NYC Quake made sense. This… well, I'm still waiting for an explanation, but it'd better be a doozy.
~J
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| Ah hell, we have seen worse, haven't we? The explanation of an astral vortex sounds good enough to me. Better than explanations for smurf kingdoms popping up like mushrooms in Germany. Better than subterranean immortal dwarves living in giant shroom houses. Better than the original France book either, from what I read. Not much worse than old SoCal's background, either. In SR1's backstory, New York, a cities that, for all I know, is FAR FROM ANY FAULTLINE, was flattened in an out-of-the-blue magnitude 8 earthquake. Get over it. If they only fuck up SoCal, I could care less, especially if Hongkong becomes a good setting. Seattle was really becoming stale, and Europe isn't quite the alternative (excluding Portugal, Poland and the other outlying countries. Those were covered rather nicely). |
Let's say that mana syorm is reasonable. Let's say they come up with Deus Ex Machina out their ass that let's do this without destorying every fucking city on the pac rim. Why? Really why did iiy have to happen?
I know fully well how it happened that jap dragon fucked things up and drew much from the dragon lines. Still fuck him, he is was a shitty dragon in first ed and even worse now.
Now let's get to the things that are worse. Smurf kingdoms can be undone. SK has the magic,and man power to undue that, ditto witht the Dwraves. France's fuck up can be changed with time, same with the old CFS.
See, the old CFS was a fuck up on a scale that made me want to cry. I wanted to reach out and smack evryone who wrote that POS, but it could have been changed back. It could have had a revalution. things could have gotten better. Now it is just fucked. You can't say and Ares or some other power that be comes and changed the CFS, cause no one has the resources to fixe that much land, let alone the reason to.
In the end if you don't care what happens to Califonia, that is fucking fine but I do. I bloody well do, and others do. So from what I see, this POS plot line either hitting people who don't care or who are damned pissed at it. So tell me how is that good?
Some people liked the bugs. Some people liked Surge...I don't see anyone who likes this shit.
All we have seen is the map of North America to date right? Then who is to say that when the book comes out that there will not be some rather significant changes around the pac rim? Also, as far as I know no one has as of yet gotten a look at the history section of the new book which may describe a world class disaster occurring in that five year period. personally am going to wait till I can get my hands on the book before I blow my top. Actually the idea of Seattle being laid to ruin by the event that dropped California into the ocean opens a lot of possibilities for story lines to my mind.
By the way, what immortal dwarfs? Obviously I need to stop at a game store next time I pass through Germany and pick up some copy of this german only shadowrun stuff.
Believe me. It wasn't even worth mentioning.
| QUOTE (Cynic project) |
| Some people liked the bugs. Some people liked Surge...I don't see anyone who likes this shit. |
I like what I see of Cali so far. I like to know what happened. I'm not bothered by the fact that this is not even remotely possible by hard core science. Thats makes one person who likes this shit. To each his own.
| QUOTE (Adarael) |
| That's IT! Ellery, you're a genius! Deus finally found the manifestation of the Deep Resonance in the physical world, right? His intrinsic poly-phase magnetic manifestation (known to you unenlightened as a 'soul)! Then he black IC'd the net-manifestation, causing the physical component to go haywire. As the dual being of matrix/ontology/volition/essence and physical/power/action/continuity is known to the common populace as 'God', it went crazy, it made California fall apart! So yes, Deus black IC'd god. |
That is the best explanation ever!
Anyways, Ellery said this realy wouldn't be following the cycles of magic but I'd beg to differ. Now I've heard most people didn't like 'Harlequins Back' the adventure, but...in there he states that that whole thing would have taken place if the great ghost dance hadn't happened, and people like himself had thought that the next time those guys came around technology would have reached a point where it was blended with magic and humanity would have a chance at realy being able to defend itself.
Ok now with that in mind, we now have technomancers and altered reality. Prehapse blackICing god isn't that far off realy. If you don't think that magic could be used to plausibly explain this, then think about things. The Great Ghost dance altered weather patterns all over the globe, majorly. Not something that physics or science can explain really. Now we're looking at a map of California and part of it seems to have 'fallen into the ocean'. Whats to say something on the magnitude of the great ghost dance didn't happen there? Prehapse it was the blending of magic and technology in that ritual that caused somthing or other to...i don't know, rearange matter on a large uncontrolled scale? Afterall since we can't realy destroy matter as its been pointed out multiple times in this thread, but it can be rearanged, whats to say that didn't happen here?
We all know those azzies love em the blood magic (note: this is not saying that this is the azzies fault they just love em the blood magic and its possible they were involded or someone else, but they're just the leading producer of blood mages
). I believe someone pointed out that LA's got these wonderful ley lines going on there. I think thats certainly a plausible possibility that something like the Great Ghost Dance Happened in LA (prehapse why it survived) that had a drasticaly different effect. Instead of affecting weather patterns and other such things, it rearanged matter?Anyways just a thought, though I still am a fan of Deus Black ICing god hehe.
Truth be told as long as they spin a good story that hangs with previous cannon am more than willing to invoke suspension of disbelief. If they do do a pac rim wide event than you can proably kiss Japan good bye as a power in the Shadowrun world which possibly means the relocation of several megacorps head offices. Yet more fodder for story lines.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| It's crap. And you're singing praises to it all the while, like some fawning fucking court jester. Keep licking, Blakkie. Maybe they'll give you a free copy for being a good little fanboy. |
I'm pretty sure i covered this with Shadow. Perhaps you missed that? Just because i don't post all freaked out and on the 'dangerous' edge like you doesn't mean i like everything. Instead i see what i like and am able to shrug most of the rest off, although occationally comment on it.
I guess i'm just fortunate that i don't feel compelled to fixate on and eat the feces?
| QUOTE (Wireknight) |
| <snip> Hopefully, by SR5, they will merge all global nations into one and call it Shadowrunia, ruled by great dragons from an orbital astral space-platform with orichalcum nuclear cannons. |
that exactly resumes my problems with SR, I have been around since sr1-2, and love the setting but I think it is getting messed up. `suspension of disbelief`being sorely challenged once too often. SR devs are starting to sound like kids with overactive imaginations. they have been out of control since after the whole Dunkelzahn for president thing..since then it has been a rollercoaster ride with devs steadily trying to outdo one another in just how many things they can mess up or change for no good reason & without any type of regard for the continnuity of the setting....
they are killing the setting, at least for me.
SR used to make sense, reading behind the lines you could discern a lot. that aspect of sr has almost died.
>:( am TRYING to hope sr4 will fix all this but it doesnt seem likely..I hope the map thing is a typo..
DS
FYI, someone posted a little spoiler on ShadowRN. That should give a few answers and raise a few other questions.
| QUOTE (JongWK) |
| FYI, someone posted a little spoiler on ShadowRN. That should give a few answers and raise a few other questions. |
Copy-paste please? The archive page doesn't seem to be working there, and i'd rather not sign up for a mail list. I get enough spam as it is.
| QUOTE (Stormdrake) |
| Truth be told as long as they spin a good story that hangs with previous cannon am more than willing to invoke suspension of disbelief. If they do do a pac rim wide event than you can proably kiss Japan good bye as a power in the Shadowrun world which possibly means the relocation of several megacorps head offices. Yet more fodder for story lines. |
agreed in theory, but when you get too many world shaking events they get a dime a dozen they lose their impact.
more importantly, they ruin the impact of `lesser`plotlines. who cares about stopping this or that particular plant from dropping toxic waste into the sea when the world as we know it is about to end.. *again*
<dunkies election, bug spirits, the arcology, the comet, resurgence of shedim, the new dragons, the drakes, etc, etc, etc....>
DS
ShowrunRN?
A mailing list that reaches as many as 200 e-mails a day, I´m told.
There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Korilian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable planet. The only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they do not know about it!
*shrug* Over time time settings accumulate debris. That is one advantage to having the flexibility to choose to just play SR the game instead of playing SR the setting.
*shrug* Over time time settings accumulate debris. That is one advantage to having the flexibility to choose to just play SR the game instead of playing SR the setting.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Aug 19 2005, 09:49 AM) |
| The relevant link, I think. (I hate mailing lists so very much) ~J |
Thanks a lot.
EDIT: NM, i just switched to threaded mode and read through the replys to that speculation.
Does the north end of the smaller plate that sits between the NA plate and the Pacific plate sit somewhere in the San Diego area? That would help explain why they chose to have the subsidence end abruptly there. Basically a new smaller plate has been formed and is sliding under it.
P.S. Regarding the New York quake: Not only is there a fault line there, but quakes can actually epicenter in the middle of plates. Last i checked it isn't understood exactly why, but they do occur.
Okay, my 0.02Nuyen:
Actually, I got the idea (partly) from a German Shadowrun-Mailinglist:
It was/will be Winternight.
They are collecting nuclear warheads, and nobody knows what they want
with those. They are working on ways to enhance them. They hate the
Matrix (It being from Loki, and all).
They hit California (for whatever reasons) with their nuclear arsenal
and a lot of people get the Beserk-BTL chips (don't know how they are
called in English), and hit major Matrix nodes, crashing it completely,
forcing a wireless approach this time (after optic fibre in the
aftermath of '29).
The nukes split off a part of california.
I guess the campaign to close the gap between 2060 and 2070 will feature
this conspiracy.
Well, enough paranoia for me, tonight.
And if that is true then the Pac rim and everything else in the world should be fucked up too. We are talking about no Seattle, no Hong Kong, no PCC, no Aztlan, no Japan. All of them just gone.
Russia set off a one megaton bomb off in the cold war. There was bronken glass thousands of miles away. Did said nuke leave a hole in the earth you could see from the moon with the naked eye?To cause this sort of reaction we are talking unitons worth of nukes. In case one is wondering what a uniton is, it is 1,000,000 megarons. Okay you may only need gigatons, but still we are talking about a change that makes the GGD look like a fucking joke. This California plot line would mean fall out for the most of the world, great!
And people wonder why I am upset with this plotline? Can I kill the developers yet?
Actually, I got the idea (partly) from a German Shadowrun-Mailinglist:
It was/will be Winternight.
They are collecting nuclear warheads, and nobody knows what they want
with those. They are working on ways to enhance them. They hate the
Matrix (It being from Loki, and all).
They hit California (for whatever reasons) with their nuclear arsenal
and a lot of people get the Beserk-BTL chips (don't know how they are
called in English), and hit major Matrix nodes, crashing it completely,
forcing a wireless approach this time (after optic fibre in the
aftermath of '29).
The nukes split off a part of california.
I guess the campaign to close the gap between 2060 and 2070 will feature
this conspiracy.
Well, enough paranoia for me, tonight.
And if that is true then the Pac rim and everything else in the world should be fucked up too. We are talking about no Seattle, no Hong Kong, no PCC, no Aztlan, no Japan. All of them just gone.
Russia set off a one megaton bomb off in the cold war. There was bronken glass thousands of miles away. Did said nuke leave a hole in the earth you could see from the moon with the naked eye?To cause this sort of reaction we are talking unitons worth of nukes. In case one is wondering what a uniton is, it is 1,000,000 megarons. Okay you may only need gigatons, but still we are talking about a change that makes the GGD look like a fucking joke. This California plot line would mean fall out for the most of the world, great!
And people wonder why I am upset with this plotline? Can I kill the developers yet?
That's not the mail I was talking about. Someone actually posted a piece of SR4's History section after it.
| QUOTE (Graht on ShadowRN) |
| Well, since GenCon has started, I think it's safe to do this. If not, I'm sure someone will sue me  This is from the last playtest version that went out just before layout started. "CalFree finally saw the last of Saito, but not the last of its woes. In early 2069, a pair of major earthquakes coming from the San Andreas Fault line and the San Pedro Shelf caused widespread flooding and destruction, killing tens of thousands. Much of Southern California and the Central Valley found themselves dropped below sea level and were inundated with tidal waves. While San Francisco and the Bay Area were mostly spared, waters have flooded most of the Central Valley and Los Angeles (which, if nothing else, had at least fortified their sea walls in the more affluent corporate areas decades ago). They say that the floodwaters may recede after a year or two, but we'll see. Meanwhile if you want to visit, you'll either have to fly or learn to swim." So according to this, the map is wrong, and the flooding isn't as bad as the map makes it look (otherwise some sections dropped 500+ feet and there's no way a 10-20' sea wall would stop that). If we went by the map then *millions* of people would have been killed by the flooding. |
EDIT: My answer to that mail, just to clarify confusion about the map.
ShadowRN is a great mail list to join, by the way. Good noise-to-sound ratio.
ShadowRN is a great mail list to join, by the way. Good noise-to-sound ratio.
| QUOTE (Stormdrake) |
| By the way, what immortal dwarfs? Obviously I need to stop at a game store next time I pass through Germany and pick up some copy of this german only shadowrun stuff. |
'Deutschland in den Schatten' trilogy, by Hans-Joachim Alpers. It was in the first one, I think. Below Rhine-Ruhr, where immortal dwarves live in mushroom houses. Could have been the second Penta: A fault line below NYC? That's news to me, but thanks anyway. :)too, though. I don't remember these books well, and I like it that way.
Penta: A fault line below NYC? That's news to me, but thanks anyway.
And I hope you're right and the map was a bit off, and the flooding is only temporarily.
But, what happened to Japan with that quake?
rage dying out...If it can get better I am not nearly as pissed.
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| Penta: A fault line below NYC? That's news to me, but thanks anyway. And I hope you're right and the map was a bit off, and the flooding is only temporarily. |
Re NYC: It comes to mind about every decade or so. In January 89, actually, there was a minor (2.9) quake under one of the bridges heading into Manhattan from New Jersey (the George Washington Bridge), which provoked a small flurry of discussion. So that's probably where they got that from.
Re California: Agreed. A subduction quake, like the San Andreas fault typically generates, might cause what was described. Might.
To be frank, last December pointed up how little we really know about tsunamis, too.
Er? How? As far as I can tell everything went exactly as expected…
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Nikoli @ Aug 19 2005, 10:16 AM) |
| But, what happened to Japan with that quake? |
The size of the tsunami isn't just determined by the size of a quake. It is about how much water is displaced.** The distance traveled, interceding islands (there are a lot in the Pacific), and such. Unless the wave is somehow focused, like a parabolic dish does for headlight, the energy/wave will greatly disperse over the thousands of miles.
Japan is fairly open to a wave coming from SoCal, HongKong is pretty much shielded from the entirety of NA/SA by a combination of Japan, the China coast, and Malaysia.
** EDIT: Meaning if SoCal mostly dropped, but the coastal shelf didn't push out or retract to the east that much the wave wouldn't be a large.
The Indonesian tsunami unfolded just about exactly as expected. The size of the quake was a bit surprising (magnitude 9+ quakes don't happen very often, but they do happen, and there have been larger ones in recorded history, e.g. Alaska in 1964 was about the same size), but after that point the people who were surprised were those who didn't know much/anything about tsunamis (which, unfortunately, included almost all the victims...hint, if the water receeds really really far for no reason, run uphill as fast as you can--you probably have half an hour).
Anyway, coastal quakes in the Pacific tend to hit Japan and not diminish the size of the wave much. (Note: 25m in Chile where the quake started, 11m in Japan.)
Flooding the central valley isn't any better because firstly, it's mostly a hundred feet or more above sea level, and secondly, it's on the far side of the plate boundary. Now, if you suppose that the N.A. plate dives under the Pacific plate because, I don't know, it wants to get a look at what's under there, you'd still need a magnitude 11 quake to do that. Also, flooding southern CA won't work because that requires the Pacific plate to go under the N.A. plate, because southern CA sits on the Pacific plate, and save for the L.A. basin, the elevation is hundreds of feet at the coast and thousands not far inland, so again, you need a world-shakingly-large quake even if one accepts that the map is screwed up. (And if the "Baja peninsula is an island" thing is true, it really must be thousands of feet.)
If we ignore what happened in southern CA, and instead assume just a sliver of the coast is underwater, moving a coastal area along 400 miles of coast by hundreds of meters will create an impressively large tsunami (likely over 100m in Japan), devastating the coastal areas of basically everything in the Pacific.
So the explanation doesn't work, though if they screwed up the map and some of the effects then it may have only been a hundred times too large, not billions.
Anyway, coastal quakes in the Pacific tend to hit Japan and not diminish the size of the wave much. (Note: 25m in Chile where the quake started, 11m in Japan.)
Flooding the central valley isn't any better because firstly, it's mostly a hundred feet or more above sea level, and secondly, it's on the far side of the plate boundary. Now, if you suppose that the N.A. plate dives under the Pacific plate because, I don't know, it wants to get a look at what's under there, you'd still need a magnitude 11 quake to do that. Also, flooding southern CA won't work because that requires the Pacific plate to go under the N.A. plate, because southern CA sits on the Pacific plate, and save for the L.A. basin, the elevation is hundreds of feet at the coast and thousands not far inland, so again, you need a world-shakingly-large quake even if one accepts that the map is screwed up. (And if the "Baja peninsula is an island" thing is true, it really must be thousands of feet.)
If we ignore what happened in southern CA, and instead assume just a sliver of the coast is underwater, moving a coastal area along 400 miles of coast by hundreds of meters will create an impressively large tsunami (likely over 100m in Japan), devastating the coastal areas of basically everything in the Pacific.
So the explanation doesn't work, though if they screwed up the map and some of the effects then it may have only been a hundred times too large, not billions.
| QUOTE (Penta) |
| A subduction quake, like the San Andreas fault typically generates, might cause what was described. Might. |
No, not even if it released all the tension stored in it along the entire length of the fault, since it's going in two different directions, and at least ten times too far with the very most conservative estimate of what happened.
| QUOTE |
| Does the north end of the smaller plate that sits between the NA plate and the Pacific plate sit somewhere in the San Diego area? |
No, it's nowhere near. The Juan de Fuca plate starts in northern CA, about halfway between SF and the border with Oregon. The Cocos plate ends to the south of the Baja peninsula (can't find a good picture of it online).
If the map is, indeed, wrong, then it might be wise to consult someone who's familiar with the region's various elevations and the behavior of tsunami-induced flooding and earthquakes' potential effects on the region's geography, when revising it. Someone like Ellery, for instance. Just tossing ideas out there.
Or, they could have simply editted the SR3 map, which is topographical. I mean, it's pretty damned hard to look at that map and not notice the glaring mountains on it.
How is the water supposed to recede after the land dropped so far in elevation that the ocean came crashing down onto land that used to be above sea level? That's like saying the water in a lake will recede in a year or two "because".
Simple. SoTA 2073 will announce the beginning of the next Ice Age.
SR5 will be Shadowrunning On Ice.
SR5 will be Shadowrunning On Ice.
Regarding Japan, well that is what i said. Japan [windward side] is vulnerable to Pacific Ocean tsunamis that end up directed it's way. A drop from 25m to 10m is pretty damn huge reduction, not just a halving.
There appears to be a pass (or two? forked?) that comes across the top of the Baja roughly where the 2070 map shows a straight. *shrug*
Also the NA dropping wouldn't nessarily be it diving underneath, but could be a 'correction' of the overall pushing up that has created the west coast mountain ranges. Basically a quick advancement of the subduction that is ongoing.
It could be a tear in the NA plate that stops it there, like the Juan tore in ages past. *shrug*
But once again this is Armageddon science territory. All exaggerated effects of what really is possible within current accepted knowledge....just like the rest of SR. If you can't turn on the vision foggers enough to get past this item then it is probably best you pack up and leave before your head explodes in an over-analytical 'pop'.
EDIT: The bounce-back taking a few years? Once again exageration of effects. Unless they are saying that somehow the water rushed up and in creating an inland saline lake that is slowly draining. Like the Great Lakes that are actually doomed to mostly empty (barring interceding events). But that's pretty damn weird because you'd need a pinchpoint for that to work.
There appears to be a pass (or two? forked?) that comes across the top of the Baja roughly where the 2070 map shows a straight. *shrug*
Also the NA dropping wouldn't nessarily be it diving underneath, but could be a 'correction' of the overall pushing up that has created the west coast mountain ranges. Basically a quick advancement of the subduction that is ongoing.
It could be a tear in the NA plate that stops it there, like the Juan tore in ages past. *shrug*
But once again this is Armageddon science territory. All exaggerated effects of what really is possible within current accepted knowledge....just like the rest of SR. If you can't turn on the vision foggers enough to get past this item then it is probably best you pack up and leave before your head explodes in an over-analytical 'pop'.
EDIT: The bounce-back taking a few years? Once again exageration of effects. Unless they are saying that somehow the water rushed up and in creating an inland saline lake that is slowly draining. Like the Great Lakes that are actually doomed to mostly empty (barring interceding events). But that's pretty damn weird because you'd need a pinchpoint for that to work.
There's a decent online atlas of California here:
http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Ecga/calatlas/
It has topography, fault lines, and the locations of previous major and minor earthquakes.
The digital elevation model I looked at doesn't make this event very likely, but I like the idea of magic being a poor man's argument.
http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Ecga/calatlas/
It has topography, fault lines, and the locations of previous major and minor earthquakes.
The digital elevation model I looked at doesn't make this event very likely, but I like the idea of magic being a poor man's argument.
sounds to me like the land basicly dropped straight down and the water flowed in on top of it. how much of a tsunami that would create i dont know.
as for it being likely that something like that would happen naturaly, nah. so i have a feel that the shadowspeak onwards will contain pointers towards said magical duel of the lines between the dragons.
as in some sort of wild magical discharge forced this to happen...
as for it being likely that something like that would happen naturaly, nah. so i have a feel that the shadowspeak onwards will contain pointers towards said magical duel of the lines between the dragons.
as in some sort of wild magical discharge forced this to happen...
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