But it's not the re-rolling sixes that's important, its the unlimited hits. If you allow spending edge to remove the hit cap completely, many spells are effectively boosted to Force 20 by spending a point of edge on the casting roll.

It's actually not possible with the SR4 Power Focus either. The Power Focus adds dice to any test that adds your magic, but it doesn't actually add anything to your magic attribute.

This stands in marked contrast to the SR3 version, which added to your magic attribute and also added dice to any task that used a magical skill. I'm not entirely sure why the change (except possibly the fact that the limit of magic items by magic attribute is a basic, rather than optional rule in SR4).

-Frank

Perhaps I don't follow what you are saying. The only thing I can think of that would limit the spellcasting dice pool to one hit would be casting the spell at level 1. I would cast the spells at level 10 and quicken them with 10 Karma. That is what give the spells such large dice pools for resistance.

Did'nt think you could buy incompatance for any skills you couldn't default to.

So Drain code isn't figured by damage healed -2?

Literally it's "(Damage Value) - 2."

So then the next questions are "Great, now which Damage Value are we talking about? Their entire damage track? One particular wound? An arbitrary number of boxes that I declare I'm trying to heal?"

We're told "A character can only be magically healed once for any single set of injuries." That in itself is annoyingly vague and there are many posts on the subject already. What constitutes a "set?"

But what it does clearly do is tell us that we're supposed to be healing wounds as sets. Therefore, however many boxes of damage are in that set is what will determine the drain code.

There are three possible definitions of sets that I came up with:

1) The total number of Physical boxes of damage currently held by the character.
2) A number of boxes equal to one particular application of one Physical wound.
3) A number of boxes equal to the currently untreated Physical wounds (i.e.: the boxes that have not been magically doctored yet).

Page 244, thankfully, tells us what a "set" is in the medicinal sense: "Medicine may only be applied once to each set of wounds, but it may be applied even if First Aid and/or magical healing have already been used. Additional damage taken afterward counts as a new set of wounds."

So the set definition #3 -- assuming the usage of the word "set" is meant to be consistent between medicine and magic -- is the appropriate one.

~~~~~

Take 3P damage, then take 5P damage. A mage comes by and heals you; his drain is 6 (3+5-2). Let's say he gets 5 hits on his Spellcasting (which would require at least a Force 5 Heal to be fully effective), so your set of wounds goes from 8P to 3P.

Then you go out and take another 4P of damage. The mage rolls his eyes and goes to heal this new set of wounds. He can't touch the pre-existing 3P; that's recoverable only via rest. He can, however, attempt to heal the new set of injuries. The wound set is 4 boxes, so his drain code is 2. Let's say he gets 3 hits on his Spellcasting (again, he would have had to declare at least a Force 3 for those hits to apply), so your new set of wounds goes from 4P down to 1P.

That means your total Physical damage is now 4P (3P left from earlier and 1P left from the new stuff).

~~~~~

So basically you just need to get into the habit of tracking which wounds have been treated (and with what, since you can't use First Aid on wounds that have been magically Healed) and which are as of yet untreated.

What I do is mark a single diagonal slash through fresh wound boxes. Then when I'm given First Aid, I'll put another diagonal through the remaining boxes (making an "X") and erase the single-slash boxes that were patched up. Then when I'm magically Healed I erase the X's that were patched up and put a horizontal line through the remainders (making sort of an asterisk). Those remaining "asterisk" boxes can be healed only through rest.

If I'm ever magically Healed before receiving First Aid, then the remainder boxes go straight into asterisk mode and I shoot dirty looks at the helpful mage for a few minutes.

It's a pain (no pun intended), but that's the best way I've come up with to handle damage tracking, given the healing rules.

I think it's a bit clearer with Resist Pain, which has a drain with a similar notation (Damage Value - 4), that it is all the boxes of damage (of that type being addressed i guess) the patient currently has. But only a bit clearer, and by inference.

Just to stave off confusion -- and Fortune please correct me if I'm misinterpreting -- the first point is a "I'd like it better if" statement and the second point is a "this is the way it actually is" explanation.

That's the best definition of a set that I've found so far.

Note that the use of the word "afterward" keeps things firmly vague. After what? After the Medicine skill has been applied? After you've had First Aid and/or magical healing?

Woohoo! That makes my Intimidation Troll character even more effective!

I don't recall anything about a requirement that a Skill be 'Active' in order for one to be incompetent in it. In fact, the Conversion Guide has an example of someone with the Incompetent Quality for a Knowledge Skill (Yakuza).

I do recall that SR4 canon specifically states that a character cannot have any 'ranks' in a Skill in which he is incompetent (which is the exact opposite of SR3)

and

but a GM should look carefully at allowing any character with too many incompetencies.

High, you mean.

Fair enough ... thanks.

Word is that the German errata officially changed the x's to +'s.

No.

Improved Ability applies to Combat Skills (.5 power points / level ) or to Physical, Social, or Technical skills (.25 power points / level). None of those categories include the separate category of Magical Skills. Also not included are Resonance and Vehicle skills.

Oddly, the wording is weird... the description says you can use it with a "specific active skill" (which is probably why you got that impression), but only lists the cost for Combat, Physical, Social, and Technical. So presumably, only those 4 categories are valid.

Word is, that these changes are official (according to some german freelancers/playtesters) and should be included in a future english errata.

SYL

that's partly why they're spirits - you'll notice a lot of para critters or similar are deadlier than regular people - it's part of the tread of being newborn to magic again and the fact not having a dependant physical body gives spirits an edge over fleshies.

as for dual-bodied - dragons would be very embarassed if they weren't stronger than people by default (being that big, but so weak...no hoard is safe) but other dual critters have to contend to the fact they have a open weakness if they can't defend on one side of the planes. your mage buddies don't have to come to the fight physically if there's an astral target for them to hunt down.

lots of disadvantages (but yes, advantages too) to being paranormal. You just have to find the right boxes, push the right buttons, and don't use the hold out pistol (the last one will just get you laughed at).

Would the spell stealth make you harder to be detected by sonar?

Improved invisibility actually bends light around the target -- sound waves are unaffected. Therefore, logically, improved invisibility does not defeat ultrasound.

However... Normal (un-improved?) invisibility works on the living target's mind, causing him to not see you. As this is entirely independent of the method of perception, logically it would defeat ultrasound. Unfortunately, the page you list contradicts this logic, and then gives no mention of improved invisibility.

So, flip a coin I guess; 'cause logic doesn't apply.

Stealth *might* make you harder to detect by sonar, or it might make you glaringly obvious.

To draw an analogous situation, absorbing all sound waves (affected by the stealth spell) is equivalent to wearing all black (which absorbs all visible light). If you are standing in front of a steel wall, which is echoing back all the sound very clearly, you'll stick out just as clearly as someone in all black standing against a white backdrop. However, if you are standing in an open field, with nothing but the horizon behind you (which won't reflect the sonar) then you will be effectively invisible. You would also be fine in front of a wall coated in acoustical foam.

So, wether or not the stealth spell makes you harder to detect by sonar depends on what is behind you, basically.

The rules of silence really imply that the character makes no noise at all; and I'm pretty certain that would include echoing back Sonar and the like. Contrast that with illusion, which specifically states it warps light around a target.

However, I like your interpretation better, even if it's not exactly supported by the spell description. It adds a nice symmetry between stealth and invisibility. Besides, *something* has to counteract Ultrasound; and as the rules specifically state that un-improved invisibility isn't it, it might as well be stealth.

Would normal invisibility work here? It is a mana spell, and thus can be cast on the astral. Of course, it presumably doesn't hide *itself* on the astral, so you might still see a spell walking around. Or, maybe that too would be cloaked from the mage's mind.

Really, I think I have strong disagreements with the game designers about what "affecting the mind of the target" would accomplish.

Actually, as "invisibility" affects a single sense, sight (according to older rulebooks) I could see an argument for it not working on "astral sight" which is a "sixth" sense and thus not tied directly to sight. But, that would leave open the possibility of spells affecting this sixth sense... which could be interesting to say the least.

Astral invisibility might be fun... but not half as much fun as astral phantasm (Actually, phantasm is already multi-sense, to use the old terminology, so maybe this is already doable?)

I'm not sure, but that might be rather unbalancing for the game. But I agree, there needs to be *some* way to pull "dirty tricks" on the astral. As it stands, anyone with astral perception (and fluff text aside, that's a lot of people in SR) can effectively negate any and all cool "sneaky magic tricks" by astrally perceiving and thus being unaffected.

So, it might be good to come up with some mechanism for astral shenanigans. And things probably won't be *too* unbalanced, whatever that mechanism is, because it'll work only from one magic user to another -- so it won't really make magic more or less powerful relative to the rest of the game.