p.84, top right. theres an example of how you find essence.
the problem is, they claim 2.5 + .75 = 2.75
the correct way would be Either =3.25 Or 2.0 cyberware.

On p. 303, bottom right, theres a line about 'exception of cultured', refering to p. 339 where the implied information does not exist. From context, we can conclude that while everything else is listed as 'standard', cultured bioware is listed at the alpha minimum.

The lightning bolt spell has the following characteristics:

both, actually. the spell does physical damage, and it also does electrical damage. electrical damage is treated like stun, but has a chance to knock a target out.

just like tasers or stick-n-shocks.

its a little unclear, but i think its accurate.

It sounds like he's saying that it should do physical and in addiition also have the electrical effect of stun and chance of knockout.

Seems over-powered to me.

skillwires are availible up to rating 5
Activesofts are availible up to rating 4.

Is this a typo, or is the only advantage of the rating 5 skillwires that they can run 2 more activesofts at the same time?

Well, that and you can use a reality filter to boost your response to 6 at chargen.

Folks, Skillwires support Ratingx2 Points of SkillSofts total - so getting 5 means you are able to run more at a higher Rating at the same time.

Because all other sources of electrical damage do Stun. Why should the Lightning Bolt spell differ?

My brain just popped! Ignore.

That lightning bolt definitely needs an errata on its damage.

Well, now there is a German Errata.

I still don't see any exception.

Old discussion, and I see some names here that have already been in the other threads on this.

Conceptually speaking, it's possible that Lightning spells could do either Stun or Physical. Tazer effects use electricity to do Stun damage. Arc welders and Momma Nature's lightning do Physical damage (since they both damage inanimate objects).

Realistically speaking, high voltage tazes you and high amperage fries you (technically it's the heat from the ohms since humans are poor conductors). The two are not mutually exclusive from a physics standpoint, and in fact each zap contains elements of both.

So what those two paragraphs above mean is that any arguments based off of the properties of real-world electricity just won't decide anything constructive. Shadowrun pigeonholes all damage into one of two arbitrary types and we need to know which flavor they decided that this spell uses.

So then we can turn to drain code analysis. Lightning Bolt has the same drain code as Flamethrower & Acid Stream while doing the same damage; it just uses a different element type. Historically, spells that do Stun damage have a lesser drain code (circumstantially supported by Stun Bolt versus Mana Bolt), but since Lightning Bolt has the same damage code as its sibling spells we might assume that it too does Physical damage.

The flipside of that is the fact that electrical attacks have a way cool (and quantifiable) secondary effect compared to fire, cold, and acid. We can imagine that possibly the developers intended to give a Stun-damage Lightning Bolt a higher drain code because of that effect, but this is more of a "gut feeling" supposition than anything we can actually prove.

Attempting to dismiss any guesswork leaves us with the RAW saying that electrical attacks are all Stun, while the Lightning Bolt damage code says it does Physical. Since both cannot be true, all we have is guesswork until an errata tells us otherwise.

p.314

Fragmentation Rocket --> availability 16F should be 12F since the 'weapons specialist' sample char has one.

i'm pretty sure that's an example of the character itself having been done wrong (which, for the record, tends to be the case with all the sample characters. i wonder if they made the characters before the rules were finalised or something... )

GM said it was okay

In the German official Errata the sample char lost his rocket...

One of my players found this. I am assuming it is just bad math, but someone correct me if I am wrong.

Don't know if this was mentioned here yet, but there seems to be a contradiction on conjuring materials cost.

- There aren't any rules for DMSO (including things as rules, prices etc. for ARES supersquirts ammunition, weapon. see p.309)

- p 292: Why do Barghests get enhanced senses (sonar)? (even merrows don't get that)

-Shouldn't the yamaha Sakura fubuki include a smart system?

I don't know if anybody has posted this yet or not, but I found that the rule for forged ID looks to be an error.

PG 260 - 261....

----------------
Whenever a character uses her fake identity to pass an
ID check (whether for buying a dress or crossing a border),
she must make an Opposed Test pitting her fake ID’s rating
against the rating of the verification system. The side achieving
the most successes wins. If both sides achieve the same number
of successes, the verifying system instructs the operator to further
“interrogate” the individual offering the ID.
---------------

This doesn't seem to match with any of the other 4th edition rules and, without actually digging out my 3rd edition rule book, I'd say its direct cut and paste - especially since it uses "success", not "hit".

Unless anybody has a better idea, I think I'll have the scanning device roll System + Analyze versus a threshold equal to the ID's rating. This seems more in line with the rest of the rules.

despite the change in wording, in truth it's identical to the old system - whoever rules in net hits wins. Successes or hits is the same thing. It's an opposed test and whatnot.

Although that means it's never really reliable to begin with, unless you find cheap machines to scan the card, you've got a fair chance at being caught regardless.

Makes credstick forgery very chancey. Of course, it's probably suppose to be, lol.

I should try doing that...

Yea, I'm not at all keen on how fake ID's work. At character generation, the highest ID you can get is "average" -- rating 3. If you assume that an "average" department store has an "average" reader (also rating 3), your staring character, at best, will get caught about 50% of the time he goes in to buy socks.

That's just not nearly good enough when you figure this ID also has to support fake firearms licenses, rental agreements, etc.

Perhaps I'll elaborate a little more on why the forged ID rule doesn't seem to make sense...

The 4th edition rules have 3 types of tests, an opposed test is used when two things are actively opposing each other - the classic example is attacking vs. dodging. An ID can no more oppose being checked out than a brick wall can dodge being shot at, so the use of an opposed test makes no sense. I can't think of another test in the rules when 2 things oppose each other with a rating vs. rating test.

A standard sucess test seems to more appropriate as its using in many hacking tests. When a system tries to detect a hacker, it rolls a sucess test Firewall + Analyze test with a threshold equal to the stealth program rating. This is the closest analogy to checking a forged ID I could find.

My second point is the mechanics of it just don't work. If you take the example of a rating 3 scanner vs a rating 6 ID there are some big differences between 3rd and 4th editions.

In 3rd ed. a rating 6 ID was expensive, but available to starting characters. In 4th ed. it has an availability of 24F, I belive that's the highest of all items in the rule book. Its higher than a panther canon or even a missle launcher.

In 3rd ed. the scanner would roll 3 dice vs. TN 6 and the ID 6 dice vs. TN 3. Which ever gets the most sucesses wins. The scanner will almost never detect the beter ID. While in 4th ed the scanner rolls 3 dice vs 5 and the ID rolls 6 dice vs. 5 - the ID still has the advantage, but its not much of one.

What I'm getting at it the rating 6 ID, which is the most difficult single item to aquire, is not very good even against a simple scanner.

I can't seem to find my 3rd ed. rule book to prove that its just a cut-and-paste from it. If somebody can prove me right or wrong I'd like to know.

-Robert

I don't really like it, and certainly don't agree with it, but the impression I have gotten from SR4's description of Fake IDs is that they are meant to be somewhat throw-away - as opposed to in SR3 where it was so nearly impossible to detect a good fake that you could just use it as if you were a real legit citizen.

I suppose it makes sense that a fake SIN will only get you so far (considering everythign from the gas station to your own TV is constantly cross-referencing it to verify that you are who you say you are) - but I kind of like the idea of having a fake ID that you could somewhat count on.

When the players go to the local SoyBurger Queen and order something for the road before a mission, I would expect such a place to accept cash and certified cred - but when a player opens up his wallet and moths come out, its reasonable he'd want to charge it (especially if he really DOES have some money in a bank account using this fake SIN).

The problem is, in my eyes, that there is a solid 50% chance that his fake SIN (rating 3 available at char gen) fails when checked by an average scanner. I don't see Shadowrunners gambling with those sort of odds over a burger and fries. Therefore, I don't really see them using their fake IDs for much of anything. If you can't even order fast-food using a fake SIN, what good is it?

Anything worth risking a fake ID over (and getting LoneStar called on your ass) is going to be expensive enough to warrent a higher rating verification reader meaning that your chances of success are even slimmer. I probably wouldn't waste my time, or piss my money away buying too many Fake IDs as a player. Maybe one or two reserve ones at token ratings just in case you need to get out of town fast, or need to get into a bar/resturant that actually checks id (at the door, not with a verification reader).

I found my 3rd ed. rule book. One page 239..

deleted because im dumb.

Did a quick keyword search and didn't find it so I'll post it.

p. 149 Melee Weapons Table cyberspurs have no reach.

p. 337 under Blades, Spurs have a reach of 1.

Which is the correct value?

Edit: I'm assuming no reach as per 3E, but maybe they gain reach in 4E?

there was a discussion somewhere around here about this, i beleive the final verdict was that it should be 0, and i think someone said the german book corrected it.

Except this is 4th ed, not 3rd Ed - there are no more stages, only numbers...


"It was horrible! Everywhere I looked there were 1's and 0's, and I think I saw a 2...."
-Bender

I am having difficulty reading and writing the errata for Shock Frills (Armor Mod)
The errata is telling me to put in

Yes. Drop the 8. The PDF, which has the errata build in, has it exactly as you say.

Thanks for the clarity.

Adding an error if it already isn't listed above.

Pg 232 Matrix Combat Summary
Defense: Response + Firewall should replace Response + Stealth

This is changed on pg 230 but not 232.

[QUOTE] (Blackhat)
The problem is, in my eyes, that there is a solid 50% chance that his fake SIN (rating 3 available at char gen) fails when checked by an average scanner. I don't see Shadowrunners gambling with those sort of odds over a burger and fries. Therefore, I don't really see them using their fake IDs for much of anything. If you can't even order fast-food using a fake SIN, what good is it?



Gentlemen,

It is my understanding that your Fake SIN will work 100% of the time when undertaking low profile, legal activities. However when John Q. Lonestar starts to poke his snout around the subterfuge won't last. The teller at a gas station isn't going to question if your ID is fake as long as you actually have cred on it. But when you want to cross the border to the Salish-Sidhe Council they will scan your ID and possibly determine it is fake. That is where a high rating Fake SIN is crucial. Or if you are really paranoid, take the 5 pt. SINer negative quality and use your legal SIN for your legal activities. Get as high of a Fake SIN as you can for buying Guns and the like. You could also create a suitable background story as to why you should have a gun and/or gun permit and purchase one with your legal SIN.

Remember, just because you are shadowrunners doesn't mean you can't be upstanding legal citizens. This is a corporate world where everyone wants to be part of the "family." You just kill people on the side for a little extra cred. Your characters can and should be "real", after-all they are free thinking, emotional people too.

Happy hunting Chummers,

Rick Deckard