Cain
Oct 15 2007, 05:54 PM
QUOTE (Buster @ Oct 15 2007, 05:31 AM) |
QUOTE (Cain @ Oct 15 2007, 12:27 AM) | QUOTE (Buster @ Oct 14 2007, 04:07 PM) | QUOTE (Spike @ Oct 14 2007, 03:37 PM) | Ditto trying to walk around in AAA neighborhoods just this side of a cyberzombie nuclear bomb...
Or, building a character aroud the concept of 'I'm really playing a farce 12 possessing spirit' and expecting not to have to roll dice to pull it off, or having to survive the time to get that karma to get there. |
I already explained all that, I can't keep explaining to people who can't be bothered to read the thread.
|
Ah, yes, the infamous: "I have no argument, so I'll go ad hominem on everyone who proves me wrong" argument. Sorry, but whinging isn't the way to win arguments.
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What "ad hominem" attack? I said I'm not going to repeat myself for everyone who can't be bothered to read the thread. What you just said was an ad hominem attack. Why don't you contribute something useful instead of just flinging incoherent insults?
|
I rest my case.
At any event, I'll educate you on
Argumentum Ad Hominem, and leave it at that for now.
At any event, there are two pages on Possession as a service. First of all, it requires a service to do anything complicated. Second, you specified that you were using Guard as a service. That east your one service, and once the spirit dismounts, it's gone. It has to be physical to use guard, so once it discorporates, the service is over.
Buster
Oct 15 2007, 06:15 PM
QUOTE (Orient @ Oct 15 2007, 12:47 PM) |
The Elf girl in conjunction with either or those other two characters would be an interesting combo to have in a game. The mage (or uber-troll) could help take out physical threats while she protected them from retaliation.
LoneStar Mage: "Excuse me, Sir ... Unregistered spells and/or astral entities of that power are prohibited in this area without specific license." Elf Girl: (stepping in front) "Who, him? Actually, officer, this is Dunkelzahn. He's returned from beyond in the guise of this skinny, unassuming human because .. well, that's a secret. But if you'd like, officer, he can give you an autograph." (Rolls 50-billion Con dice) |
Definitely, some sort of Face is a must-have in any modern environment. Really any combo of Mage, Face, Tank, Hacker, Rigger is amazingly effective. Shadowrun is geared towards teams of specialists rather than gangs of generalists.
Orient
Oct 15 2007, 06:23 PM
QUOTE (Buster) |
QUOTE (Orient @ Oct 15 2007, 12:47 PM) | The Elf girl in conjunction with either or those other two characters would be an interesting combo to have in a game. The mage (or uber-troll) could help take out physical threats while she protected them from retaliation.
LoneStar Mage: "Excuse me, Sir ... Unregistered spells and/or astral entities of that power are prohibited in this area without specific license." Elf Girl: (stepping in front) "Who, him? Actually, officer, this is Dunkelzahn. He's returned from beyond in the guise of this skinny, unassuming human because .. well, that's a secret. But if you'd like, officer, he can give you an autograph." (Rolls 50-billion Con dice) |
Definitely, some sort of Face is a must-have in any modern environment. Really any combo of Mage, Face, Tank, Hacker, Rigger is amazingly effective. Shadowrun is geared towards teams of specialists rather than gangs of generalists.
|
Well, to an extent. In my experience, there are certain things that really benefit the team if everyone's at least passably skilled in them. Stealth-type skills are definitely one of those things. While various combinations of hackers and Concealment-using spirits go a long way, it can kinda suck if the team gets separated or needs to improvise.
...just my experience, though. Clearly not something that carries across every game.
rythymhack
Oct 15 2007, 06:30 PM
ah. it was late. missed the ork part. it is 190...which still pakes it different than what was posted, which may throw off his point total (which was my point).
Buster
Oct 15 2007, 06:30 PM
QUOTE (Orient) |
In my experience, there are certain things that really benefit the team if everyone's at least passably skilled in them. Stealth-type skills are definitely one of those things. While various combinations of hackers and Concealment-using spirits go a long way, it can kinda suck if the team gets separated or needs to improvise. |
True, it seems like everyone needs (or at least really should have) Infiltration, First Aid, Perception, and Etiquette. A specialist medic, watcher, or face does all those better, but its faster if everyone first aids themselves and smarter to have multiple chances to spot important information (and its always smarter to not piss people off).
Tarantula
Oct 15 2007, 06:39 PM
First Aid, not so much. Slap patches yes. First aid, you really just need 2 people with it, one good, and one decent (in case the good guy goes down, a mage with heal can sub for the 2nd also). Its bad to be first aiding with your own wound modifiers. Not to mention the time it takes.
Buster
Oct 15 2007, 06:47 PM
Good point about the slap patches. But if time was an issue wouldnt it be better to have everyone first aid themselves? I guess it's better to have options. Invest in Skillwires!
Cain
Oct 15 2007, 06:48 PM
Don't forget medkits. With those, First aid doesn't exactly become redundant, but it drops in necessity.
QUOTE |
Definitely, some sort of Face is a must-have in any modern environment. Really any combo of Mage, Face, Tank, Hacker, Rigger is amazingly effective. Shadowrun is geared towards teams of specialists rather than gangs of generalists. |
Agree with you 100%. Teams of hyperspecialists, with a smattering of backup skills, will bowl over any generalist team out there.
Tarantula
Oct 15 2007, 06:48 PM
Not really. Takes combat turns = to boxes healed. Its an after combat thing.
Kyoto Kid
Oct 15 2007, 10:01 PM
QUOTE (Cain) |
Don't forget medkits. With those, First aid doesn't exactly become redundant, but it drops in necessity.
QUOTE | Definitely, some sort of Face is a must-have in any modern environment. Really any combo of Mage, Face, Tank, Hacker, Rigger is amazingly effective. Shadowrun is geared towards teams of specialists rather than gangs of generalists. |
Agree with you 100%. Teams of hyperspecialists, with a smattering of backup skills, will bowl over any generalist team out there.
|
...however, medkits add their rating to the First Aid pool so the chance of healing the maximum of 6 boxes go up for someone who has the skill.
Example: Logic 3 + First Aid 3 + medkit 6 = 12 dice for an average of 4 boxes healed
Rating 6 Medkit alone = average of 2 boxes healed.
Remember, you also have to take surrounding conditions and implants into effect which reduce the DP
Tarantula
Oct 15 2007, 10:18 PM
Not to mention -2 for someone being awakened. But theres always the ever helpful (Combat Wounds) spec for first aid.
Fortune
Oct 15 2007, 11:09 PM
Don't forget there's a Threshold of 2 on Healing tests as well.
Glyph
Oct 16 2007, 02:10 AM
QUOTE (rythymhack) |
ah. it was late. missed the ork part. it is 190...which still pakes it different than what was posted, which may throw off his point total (which was my point). |
The challenge parameters also include 35 points of Karma, which I used to increase three of his stats - I broke down how I spent the Karma, too, so you can see it right on the sheet.
Glyph
Oct 16 2007, 03:04 AM
My guys were pretty much designed to be combat monsters, not solo runners, but I'll see how the sammie does on Cthulhudreams' mission. I will assume requiring backup means no point.
[ Spoiler ]
(Bonus) Per + Int (3) -> (2) if they are asian of have asian skillz on point bonus
With a dice pool of 9, 14 if it is a visual perception test, he should get it even at (3) Not sure if only knowing the Japanese language counts as "asian skillz". +1
(Mandatory) Int + Area Knowledge (1)
Defaulting still gives him 4 dice, so he should get this one, too. +1
(Mandatory) Meet the face in a nice restaurant in an AA district. The next 5 tasks are linked to this one. If you cannot get into here, you cannot participate in the next 5 tasks
He knows when it is or isn't a wise idea to be packing, and he has permits for his 'ware, so he should be okay. He might get hassled a bit for being an ork, but at worst, I imagine it would be something like an underdone steak, not barring him from the restaurant. +1
(Bonus) Neg + Chr or Con + Chr opposed test vs DP 13, eaach net hit up to 5 gives a bonus point.
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
He would spend Edge here, rolling 9 exploding dice against 13. He still probably wouldn't win. He would be likely to seek backup for this one.
(Bonus) If you have a gang related skill, get a sucess for a bonus point
He has gang identification. +1
(Mandatory) Beat up a go ganger per PC (ie one) and a go ganger leftie. Use the stats from the SR4 rulebook for helloween gangers
Even if he defaults to hit them (instead of slicing them to ribbons with his monofilament whip), he is still rolling 8 dice to hit, and 11 dice to dodge. They are rolling 6 dice for offense and defense (including the friend in melee bonus). Factor in the sammie's far superior damage soaking ability, and the ability to use one of his extra IP for full defense as an interrupt action, and it isn't likely to even be a challenge for him. +1
(Mandatory) Do enough legwork to find out where the mark for an extraction is from her photo alone (I leave this up to the discretion of the individual what this comprises)
He has a normal commlink, a fixer contact, and some "street" knowledge skills. He would probably need backup for this one, though.
(Mandatory) Infiltrate a secured school (with patrolling drones looking for people without comms etc) and find out where the kid is staying - con + charisma (3) or hack the 3/3/3/3 LAN to determine where the kid
He has a decent infiltration skill and a monstrous Agility. He would spend Edge on the con test, rolling 9 exploding dice - 9 ordinary dice would get 3 hits on average, so he will likely get this one. +1
<<linked task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a lone star patrol and exit the school with the kid. Patrol is 2 cops per player and 2 lefties. The area is flooded with tykes. Kill more than one and you'll never get rid of the star.
Four cops is more of a challenge, but he still has extremely high initiative, multiple initiative passes, and non-lethal means at his disposal (stick-n-shock, neurostun). This shouldn't pose any insurmountable obstacle to him. +1
<<Linked task>> But the vehicle CAN be outside the school
(Mandatory) Transport the kid out of town via a vehicle
He would require backup on this one, a rigger if he can get one, a cabbie getting hazard pay if he can't.
<<Linked Task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a 3 man security team trying to snatch the kid back. includes a rigger flying an (unarmed) helicopter, a heavily armored human firing a door mounted machine gun, and a super melee troll that tries to rappel out of the chopper onto your car
He would probably switch his Predator to APDS for this one. His first target would be the armored man with the heavy gun. The troll he would allow to get close before using his monofilament whip. Then he would use his MGL-12 and some explosive grenades to drive the chopper off, if normal bullets didn't do it (although the pilot would probably bail when the two combat guys failed). +1
So, 8 points, which isn't that bad for a muscle guy on this kind of run.
Cthulhudreams
Oct 16 2007, 04:08 AM
Interested to see how a mage would go.
The 3 early neg +charisma tests are for negotiating with the Johnson, so mind controlling probably isn't inappropriate.
Glyph
Oct 16 2007, 04:46 AM
Mages can be versatile, but the one I did is actually more limited than the sammie or adept. Spells and spirits make up for it a bit, though. No mental manipulations, though. I guess I don't care for them that much, notwithstanding how effective they can be.
[ Spoiler ]
(Bonus) Per + Int (3) -> (2) if they are asian of have asian skillz on point bonus
High Intuition but minimal perception, so I rolled it. 1 point of Edge to turn a critical glitch into a normal one. (Mandatory) Int + Area Knowledge (1)
Eight dice, much better. +1(Mandatory) Meet the face in a nice restaurant in an AA district. The next 5 tasks are linked to this one. If you cannot get into here, you cannot participate in the next 5 tasks
He has a fake ID, and won't be walking around with his foci active, so I don't foresee any problems. +1(Bonus) Neg + Chr or Con + Chr opposed test vs DP 13, eaach net hit up to 5 gives a bonus point.
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
He wouldn't even try. He would seek backup for this one.(Bonus) If you have a gang related skill, get a sucess for a bonus point
Nope.(Mandatory) Beat up a go ganger per PC (ie one) and a go ganger leftie. Use the stats from the SR4 rulebook for helloween gangers
He will either stunball them or summon a spirit. +1(Mandatory) Do enough legwork to find out where the mark for an extraction is from her photo alone (I leave this up to the discretion of the individual what this comprises)
He would summon spirits (air or man) for this. +1(Mandatory) Infiltrate a secured school (with patrolling drones looking for people without comms etc) and find out where the kid is staying - con + charisma (3) or hack the 3/3/3/3 LAN to determine where the kid
He has improved invisibility and levitate, and can summon spirits to search for him again. +1<<linked task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a lone star patrol and exit the school with the kid. Patrol is 2 cops per player and 2 lefties. The area is flooded with tykes. Kill more than one and you'll never get rid of the star.
Four cops is more of a challenge, but without counterspelling, they won't withstand the dice he can throw. Or, again, a decent-Force spirit would walk through them. +1<<Linked task>> But the vehicle CAN be outside the school
(Mandatory) Transport the kid out of town via a vehicle
He would require backup on this one, a rigger if he can get one, a cabbie getting hazard pay if he can't.<<Linked Task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a 3 man security team trying to snatch the kid back. includes a rigger flying an (unarmed) helicopter, a heavily armored human firing a door mounted machine gun, and a super melee troll that tries to rappel out of the chopper onto your car
He would probably have an air spirit make the chopper crash. +1
So, 7 points, not even as good as the sammie.
Glyph
Oct 16 2007, 05:05 AM
Finally, the adept, just to be complete.
[ Spoiler ]
(Bonus) Per + Int (3) -> (2) if they are asian of have asian skillz on point bonus
Seven dice, ifffy, so rolled it. Spent a point of Edge to re-roll it, and got it. +1
(Mandatory) Int + Area Knowledge (1)
Six dice, made it. +1
(Mandatory) Meet the face in a nice restaurant in an AA district. The next 5 tasks are linked to this one. If you cannot get into here, you cannot participate in the next 5 tasks
He has a fake ID, permits for his bioware in the unlikely event it is detected, and won't be packing. +1
(Bonus) Neg + Chr or Con + Chr opposed test vs DP 13, eaach net hit up to 5 gives a bonus point.
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
He passable in social situations, but no face. He would seek backup for this one.
(Bonus) If you have a gang related skill, get a sucess for a bonus point
He has gang identification. +1
(Mandatory) Beat up a go ganger per PC (ie one) and a go ganger leftie. Use the stats from the SR4 rulebook for helloween gangers
He rolls 16 dice for unarmed attacks, and 19 dice to defend. It won't be a contest. +1
(Mandatory) Do enough legwork to find out where the mark for an extraction is from her photo alone (I leave this up to the discretion of the individual what this comprises)
Like the sammie, he has a commlink, some "street" knowledge skills, and a fixer contact. He, too, would seek a backup on this one.
(Mandatory) Infiltrate a secured school (with patrolling drones looking for people without comms etc) and find out where the kid is staying - con + charisma (3) or hack the 3/3/3/3 LAN to determine where the kid
He has infiltration and disguise, but his con might or might not be enough. Edge added to roll. Still nope. Assuming for the sake of the rest of the exercise that he will eventually locate the kid, but no points for it.
<<linked task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a lone star patrol and exit the school with the kid. Patrol is 2 cops per player and 2 lefties. The area is flooded with tykes. Kill more than one and you'll never get rid of the star.
Four cops is more of a challenge, but neurostun grenades are very effective, and they can't hope to match him in close. +1
<<Linked task>> But the vehicle CAN be outside the school
(Mandatory) Transport the kid out of town via a vehicle
He would require backup on this one, a rigger if he can get one, a cabbie getting hazard pay if he can't.
<<Linked Task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a 3 man security team trying to snatch the kid back. includes a rigger flying an (unarmed) helicopter, a heavily armored human firing a door mounted machine gun, and a super melee troll that tries to rappel out of the chopper onto your car
He would lob a grenade at the guy with the machine gun, and try his luck taking on the troll. Unless the troll is also an adept, he will likely win. +1
So, 7 points, surprisingly. I thought he would do as well or better than the sammie. (Of course, I assumed rather than rolled for the sammie's attempt to locate the kid, so I went back and rolled for it, and got luckier, so the sammie stays on top).
DTFarstar
Oct 16 2007, 05:43 AM
Give me a bit(gotta go to bed class in 7 hours) and I will post a build tomorrow afternoon. She looks like a winner in my head, but we will see.
Chris
Cthulhudreams
Oct 16 2007, 05:58 AM
There might be too many points in the face meeting, but your guys haven't been pitching for that. Still, in general it might be better to change those those bonus points from 5 -> 2, 1 point for 1-3 net successes, 2 for 4-5.
raggedhalo
Oct 16 2007, 09:37 AM
@tarantula: "Leftie" is a short form for lieutenant, pronounced properly* (i.e. leftenant).
*: By "properly," I mean "in the British fashion."
Cthulhudreams
Oct 16 2007, 11:03 AM
QUOTE (raggedhalo @ Oct 16 2007, 04:37 AM) |
@tarantula: "Leftie" is a short form for lieutenant, pronounced properly* (i.e. leftenant).
*: By "properly," I mean "in the British fashion." |
Sorry, I missed that earlier. And yeah, I tend to use it when writing at a terminal that doesn't have a spell checker!
With the encounters/adventure plan, I was just throwing down some encounters based on an SR4 missions PDF I stripped the flavour text out of. So thats what a runner team is supposed to be able to do. It's a modified (read: crappier) version of the 'same game' test for D&D that FT proposed on the WOTC boards as a way of testing character balance. You throw that characters against challenges of their CR and if they win/lose 50/50 whatever it is is balanced, because if all characters carry their weight that often they are all roughly on par power wise - the same game.
SR doesn't provide such an easy mechanism for such a test which is why I resorted to using a canned adventure's challenges, because thats something an SR team would need to do.
The intresting thing is that the combat monsters are actually probably a reasonably balanced part of a team, with a face and a hacker/rigger
I'm not really looking to 'test' a character a character against that challenge, I'm just asking 'can your character as written deal with three prime runners in a fast moving vechile chasing after you' or whatever. The concepts move from hard tests -> abstract encounters when the text does.
[ Spoiler ]
The school encounter is, for example, meant to be an actual gunfight in the corridors of the school spilling out into the playground to totally preclude a huge number of weapons that PCs would normally fall back onto. Even a stunball is risky because some little tyke might overflow before a cop on protection duty goes down. Can you handle that?
The last encounter is you + whoever is driving vs 1 driver prime runner + 2 combat prime runners and should probably be pretty hard. I'm not prescribing tactics because that way lies madness. So if the door runner is better off using wide bursts hell, they'll do that
A really nasty character is going to be able to munch more than 50% of encounters. If ya think your character is 'busted' (not my call_ throw down and say this is the optimal tactic for the DM in this challenge, and this is how I throw down and punch it in the face.
However, if someone else can write a better 'same game' test that mine (which sucks) that would be a better. The ones I posted really distill into
-> Talk to the face
-> Conduct a fight against outnumbering but crappy opponents with guns after walking through a ward and security checkpoint.
-> Legwork with no infomation
-> Infiltrate a secure area with electronic and physical security
-> Conduct a gunfight vs mid range professionals and supporting drones in an enviroment that precludes normal tactics (kids running around EVERYWHERE, precluding the use of non precision weapons)
-> Conduct a gunfight on the run vs prime runners with heavy weapons.
Other things I can see
-> Inflitrate a compound with extensive magical protection and some physical and electronic security
-> Assassinate a guarded VIP in a public location, then escape undetected.
-> attack a secure compound while being attacked by spirits.
Anything else? There isn't enough emphasis on face work in my list, it is a bit combat centric.
Critias
Oct 16 2007, 01:47 PM
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) |
-> Conduct a gunfight vs mid range professionals and supporting drones in an enviroment that precludes normal tactics (kids running around EVERYWHERE, precluding the use of non precision weapons) |
Sure, sure, the little bastards running around all over the place, waving their arms and screaming, might muck up a shot or two and provide your opponents a few little mobile Rating 1 Barriers (good for one shot each), or maybe if their little bodies get stacked high enough they'll absorb a bit of grenade blast or something, but, really...
I don't see how they outright preclude normal tactics.
Orient
Oct 16 2007, 01:57 PM
QUOTE (Critias) |
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Oct 16 2007, 06:03 AM) | -> Conduct a gunfight vs mid range professionals and supporting drones in an enviroment that precludes normal tactics (kids running around EVERYWHERE, precluding the use of non precision weapons) |
Sure, sure, the little bastards running around all over the place, waving their arms and screaming, might muck up a shot or two and provide your opponents a few little mobile Rating 1 Barriers (good for one shot each), or maybe if their little bodies get stacked high enough they'll absorb a bit of grenade blast or something, but, really...
I don't see how they outright preclude normal tactics.
|
I agree. A quick LoneStar Tactics knowledge skill roll to see if they're supposed to protect first, serve first, or shoot first....
...then, assuming they don't have a mage with them, throw a quick stunball at a group of children. Hopefully, the 'Star will stop to make sure they're okay. For more evil characters, maybe a force 1 Manaball.
DTFarstar
Oct 16 2007, 03:20 PM
And for even more evil characters a Force 5 Toxic Wave.
Chris
Tarantula
Oct 16 2007, 04:08 PM
QUOTE (DTFarstar) |
And for even more evil characters a Force 5 Toxic Wave.
Chris |
Why eat that drain? Just go for the HE nade at that point.
Orient
Oct 16 2007, 04:16 PM
Well, killing children won't necessarily slow down Lonestar nearly as much as just wounding children.
A low force manabolt will just make folks bleed without any obvious "They've just been hit by 300 gallons of acid" type effect to go along with it. If that confuses/concerns your actual opponents, then that's a good thing.
Tarantula
Oct 16 2007, 04:20 PM
Yeah, but the grenade gives you a few meters of dead chunky children, a few of just dead children, a few of severely wounded ones, a few more more of fairly wounded ones, some lightly wounded ones, and a few more of some permanently scarred for life ones.
Orient
Oct 16 2007, 04:23 PM
...and are usable by more characters. Flashbang, maybe?
GryMor
Oct 16 2007, 09:36 PM
This is using a slight tweak of my current character (Human Shintoist with crippling physical disabilities), advanced to the 35 karma level (Initiation 10, Ally Spirit 8, +1 magic 15, Spec 2).
Important notes: Edge 6, Magic 5 after cyber/bioware and advancement. 1s in all physicals and intuition, mentor spirit of Amaterasu (+2 Health, +2 Ancestor Spirits), Rating 4 skillwires, datajack, platelet factory, trauma dampner. Has spells for amping his body and mental stats, physical non detection, a few combat spells and levitation. His familiar handles sustaining them. Usually casts at max force, using his portable medical shop (in the hovercraft) to cover any unresisted drain (but can auto resist most drain).
[ Spoiler ]
(Bonus) Per + Int (3) -> (2) if they are asian of have asian skillz on point bonus
9 Int + 1 Per, Japanese culutural skills: Automatic +1
(Mandatory) Int + Area Knowledge (1)
9 Int + 3 Area Knowledge: Automatic +1
(Mandatory) Meet the face in a nice restaurant in an AA district. The next 5 tasks are linked to this one. If you cannot get into here, you cannot participate in the next 5 tasks
Real SIN for this part, fully licensed healer with obvious disabilities being compensated for by his own, licensed, magic. +1
(Bonus) Neg + Chr or Con + Chr opposed test vs DP 13, each net hit up to 5 gives a bonus point.
9 Chr + 1 Neg + 6 Edge. 6 hits vs 4 hits +2
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
(Bonus) Con/Neg + Chr vs 13 for a bonus point
Edge is a precious thing, I won't be getting either of these.
(Bonus) If you have a gang related skill, get a success for a bonus point
This is iffy, if know softs count +1
(Mandatory) Beat up a go ganger per PC (ie one) and a go ganger leftie. Use the stats from the SR4 rulebook for helloween gangers
Hand out a force 10 stunball, provide nescessary medical attention, scrub the signature. +1
(Mandatory) Do enough legwork to find out where the mark for an extraction is from her photo alone (I leave this up to the discretion of the individual what this comprises)
This is iffy, it really depends if there are any public records that match up to the face or if the picture is enough for a spirit to locate the person. I'll take it, but it might be a while +1
(Mandatory) Infiltrate a secured school (with patrolling drones looking for people without comms etc) and find out where the kid is staying - con + charisma (3) or hack the 3/3/3/3 LAN to determine where the kid is
Invisible, silent and levitating, this is not an issue. One of my spirits already knows where the kid is. +1
<<linked task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a lone star patrol and exit the school with the kid. Patrol is 2 cops per player and 2 lefties. The area is flooded with tykes. Kill more than one and you'll never get rid of the star.
Stuff the kid into a bag with an oxygen bottle, sedated if need be, still invisible, silent and levitating, if needed, KO the magically active members of the patrol with force 10, edge backed stun bolts (18 dice casting) from around cornerers. Fry their brains if THEY injure any of the tykes. Remember to scrub signatures. +1
<<Linked task>> But the vehicle CAN be outside the school
(Mandatory) Transport the kid out of town via a vehicle
The GMC Everglades (Hovercraft) is a wonderful craft, especially when you have optical periscope views of the outside for targeting. Immediatly summon a force 10 air spirit if the last one is out of services, have it apply concealment to the hovercraft and it's occupants. +1
<<Linked Task>>
(Mandatory) Fight off a 3 man security team trying to snatch the kid back. includes a rigger flying an (unarmed) helicopter, a heavily armored human firing a door mounted machine gun, and a super melee troll that tries to rappel out of the chopper onto your car
If they see through the concealment, have the air spirit use movement to drop the choppers speed by a factor of 10. At this point, it shouldn't be an issue outrunning them. +1
So, 12, with one or two of them being iffy. Almost the same build, but as an elf, would have done quite a bit better due to the face work, but, he usually works with an uber face (and a technomancer), so this is pretty good for dong a solo job.
Tarantula
Oct 16 2007, 09:41 PM
GryMor, I'd love to actually see that character sheet.
Buster
Oct 16 2007, 09:46 PM
QUOTE (GryMor) |
This is using a slight tweak of my current character (Human Shintoist with crippling physical disabilities), advanced to the 35 karma level (Initiation 10, Ally Spirit 8, +1 magic 15, Spec 2). |
Holy crap, initiate 10 and ally spirit 8 from 35 karma?
Tarantula
Oct 16 2007, 09:52 PM
I think those are his costs. Initiation 10 karma, ally spirit 8 karma, +1 magic 15 karma, and specialization in something 2 karma.
Buster
Oct 16 2007, 09:57 PM
Ah, that makes sense.
GryMor
Oct 17 2007, 12:13 AM
I'll post it when I get home (and make any corrections to the dice pools). I'm literally just starting with him, and wards give him a lot of trouble. Of course, in that game, we have another mage thats more of a generalist (he is specialized towards health spells and kicking OTHER peoples attributes up to augmented max), a technomancer, an uber face adept and a few street sams.
Cthulhudreams
Oct 17 2007, 03:44 AM
I'm assuming that if you randomly massacre say, 45 children in a school protected by lone star you are going to be killed shortly afterwards by vengueful star officers, and in the mean time getting work will be hard because you are that team that massacred a whole bunch of school kids.
But anyway, this makes my point about the 'same game' test in D&D vs shadowrun. In D&D you can fight an iron golem, a pack of trolls a dragon and a hall of traps and that is a fair set of encounters. SR it;s harder.
If you have a better same game test, please feel free to break out.
In other news, arn't force 10 stunbolts likely to seriously injure any kiddies in the area?
I also think that points to the fact wards are a mandatory part of any secure institution!
GryMor
Oct 17 2007, 04:41 AM
Stunbolt (Direct)
Type: M • Range: LOS • Damage: S • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) – 1
Not stunballs, as magic doesn't miss, the adorable little tykes aren't in any danger from me.
Also, the subject of "Fry their brains if THEY injure any of the tykes" is the patrol. If I'm being careful, trying not to injure anyone I don't have to, I expect the favor to be returned and will make damned sure to prune the patrol of officers who aren't careful with the health of non combatants.
And yes, wards are good things, really really good things.... Too bad their volume is limited and the maintenance costs are rather extreme.
I'll have to think on my approach in the alternative scenario that there are wards on the school.
Critias
Oct 17 2007, 05:11 AM
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) |
I'm assuming that if you randomly massacre say, 45 children in a school protected by lone star you are going to be killed shortly afterwards by vengueful star officers, and in the mean time getting work will be hard because you are that team that massacred a whole bunch of school kids. |
I'm pretty sure folks were kidding. I know *I* was, at any rate.
I mean, there was nothing random about that massacre, and saying so is just insulting!
DTFarstar
Oct 17 2007, 05:56 PM
I don't know what children's stats are, but a Force 5 Toxic Wave maxes out at 10P damage so even if they didn't resist ANY of it they would still probably be just in overflow. So, no massacre, just alot of acid burns and long term care.
Chris
Tarantula
Oct 17 2007, 06:03 PM
2 body, 8 + 2/1 = 9 boxes. They would die in about 12 seconds after it hit. (6 seconds they drop to 11P, and 6 more 12P, dieing.)
Not too useful. Make it force 4, max at 8, then they're all just almost dead. And probably all knocked down to boot anyway.
DTFarstar
Oct 18 2007, 03:53 AM
Sounds good, my initial impulse was 4, but it always hurts me to cast spells at even numbered force because it is inefficient. So, I bumped it up. So, 4 it is. Not to mention no character I ran would ever just injure children like this.
I mean, if you get to kill children why waste them on acid? Fire or electricity and you will already have them partially roasted. Mmmmmmmmm.......
Chris
Tarantula
Oct 19 2007, 07:05 PM
Buster, you ever going to fix your mage's sheet to fit your challenge? Or have the sammies won this one by default?
Narse
Oct 20 2007, 04:32 AM
QUOTE (Tarantula) |
Ok, full stupid channel mage killer.
[ Spoiler ] Human:0bp
Attributes: 220bp Bod: 3 20bp Agi: 3 20bp Rea: 4(6) 30bp Str: 3 20bp Int: 4 30bp Log: 4 30bp Cha: 3 20bp Wil: 4 30bp
Edge: 3 20bp Essence: 4.05
Skills: 26bp Pilot Groundcraft (Wheeled) 6 26bp Whatever Else
Gear: 50bp 250k Spent: 127,850 GMC Bulldog-Step Van 35k Rigger Adaptation 2,500 Commlink Fairlight w/Novatech 9,500¥ HotSim 350¥
Ware:55,500 Cyber: 30,500 Control Rig 0.5 10k Datajack 0.1 500¥ Reaction Enhancers 2 0.6 20k
Nano:25k Control Rig Booster 3 15k Nanohive 1 0.75 10k
Unspent 106bp, put it where ever if you actually want to round him out. |
I actually had a character who was involved in something similar. He was a mage and was astrally projecting in a vehicle chase sequence, his meat bod was in a step van driven by one of the sams. So anyhow, he decides to call a spirit and have it use its movement power to slow down the guy their chasing. So the vehicle in front of them goes from like 75 to 15 in one IP. The GM rules that the other vehicle drivers need to make a vehicle test to stop in time. The sam glitches, so the gm has him roll a crash test which he fails. The GM rules that the van was traveling at top speed and slams into the vehicle we were just chasing. Crash rules aren't as bad for passengers in the vehicle that crashes (they get vehicle armor or something) so I end up facing something like 18P damage which I resist w/ bod 3+ imp. armor 3 + edge. So I end up with only 2 boxes of overflow. (the sam ends up taking more damage, but his replacement limbs give him more boxes, he doesn't overflow) Luckily I am still conscious as my consciousness was in the astral when I took this damage and so I direct a bound spirit to immediately use Heal to place my lungs back in my body before I die. O and the troll tank who was also in the van ended up w/ only 2P damage after he soaked like 16 of 18P. In conclusion kids: drive safely.
(/off topic)
Buster
Oct 20 2007, 07:00 AM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Oct 19 2007, 02:05 PM) |
Buster, you ever going to fix your mage's sheet to fit your challenge? Or have the sammies won this one by default? |
Hardly. I'm not wasting any more time answering any more horseshit responses like "my Con skill gives me supernatural mind control powers" and "astral perceivers are everywhere and easily spot your invisible spirit, but my illegal cyberware and weapons aren't detectable even though there are several cheap devices that actually do easily spot illegal cyberware and weapons".
Critias
Oct 20 2007, 07:31 AM
Turn that frown, upside down!
Tarantula
Oct 20 2007, 04:57 PM
I never asked you to answer horseshit responses. I wanted you to fix your character sheet to conform to your own design requests. You've overspent your karma.
Buster
Oct 20 2007, 05:59 PM
QUOTE (Critias @ Oct 20 2007, 02:31 AM) |
Turn that frown, upside down! |
==>
Tarantula
Oct 20 2007, 06:43 PM
QUOTE (Buster) |
QUOTE (Critias @ Oct 20 2007, 02:31 AM) | Turn that frown, upside down! |
==> |
So, sammies win? Yes?
Buster
Oct 20 2007, 07:52 PM
QUOTE (Tarantula) |
So, sammies win? Yes? |
Meh, I'm sick of playing Fox And Geese with you silly gooses.
Glyph had a good build which you guys completely ignored, you should pick on him for a few days while I get some work done. I had forgotten that joining a magical group costs 5 karma in SR4, so it throws off my build. Once I get some free time, I'll post another munchkin mage.
Tarantula
Oct 20 2007, 07:57 PM
Glyph's guys got 8, 7 and 7 respectively. My elf face got 12. Your mage got N/A for being ineligible to compete. I don't need to pick on his builds, cause frankly, they aren't all that munchkiny.
Narse
Oct 20 2007, 08:06 PM
Ok, just reread the ramming rules. For the low, low price of
495,000 you can purchase an Ares Dragon Cargo Helicopter. From now on known as the weapon of choice for assassinating dragons. A successful (not even full speed) ram against a character results in them having to resist 66P with half impact armor. I'm pretty sure that they die. On the odds of a successful ram: diver gets Reaction + vehicle skill + handling(-1) with of course potential bonus dice from being jumped in (+2 and threshold reduced) among other sources, pedestrian gets reaction + dodge, as if defending against a meele attack. After the ram attack, the driver can make a successful vehicle test to avoid crashing(so you can reuse your Ares dragon), base threshold 2. Oh and Btw, the metroplex gaurd doesn't normally take as much interest in an errant cargo heli as it does the magical equivalent of a main battle tank.
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