Heading for a long flight. It may be Sunday before I am awake enough to post an IC action.
But I(Mack) am at Init 9, so all the bad guys except Crull (who I don't want to shoot anyway) goes before me.

Joel

Upon coming back from D&D tonight, I realized that my click had dragged a few pixels and I didn't actually click Add Reply, merely grazed it. I had a post ready to go up which was basically me staying out of sight and getting to the van, but it looks like Imp got that taken care of. Sorry for not ending up posting, completely my mistake. I was in a rush to get out the door (I was about to miss my bus) so I didn't watch completely. I'll post again next time I roll around.

I'm going to be AWOL for a big chunk of the weekend too. I'll try and post later tonight though so Mack can post Joels actions ASAP.

Ah, reading through the rules more closely, while calling a shot is a free action, you have to do it along with taking aim, which Takashi did not do. I dunno how you want to fix it. The simplest way seems to be to say that the ork had good cover, and just use the same dice rolls (extra -2 for good cover making up for the -2 called shot), and take off 2DV from what I posted. I can edit the post however you suggest.

Also, posting may be sporadic as apparently Nvidia made a whole batch of bad GPUs including, as of today, mine. But work and school have internet aplenty, so we'll see how it goes.

REALLY? Any idea how to find out if mine are one of them?

Well, the Apple forum denizens have settled on the 8600M GTs from June/July 2007 being affected (failing at very high rates), and Nvidia had a very uninformative press release saying they'd be taking a charge of ~$200M against possibly recalling a bad batch of chips. It seems to be mostly 8400M and 8600Ms from what I've read. Dell released an update for laptops with those GPUs last week:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07....nv.video.bugs/

But yeah, it's a heat issue, and it's summer in Boston. Once it's fixed, I shall be keeping the air conditioner on when the laptop's on, methinks.

PHEW! Mines am 8800gt dual. so with luck, it just missed that batch. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, it's pretty troublesome. Just missed warranty by a month, too. I suppose that's what I get for getting a laptop when I moved out here. Sure it's a little smaller, but it's a lot harder to troubleshoot and swap out components when everything's integrated and you need specialized screwdrivers to even open the case.

Anyway, went by the shop today and I'll get it back in a few days to a week, most likely to have the joy of reinstalling everything. Oh well, I suppose it's a good warning to take better care of the little thing. At least it seems likely that AmEx will do its warranty extension thing, so I won't ultimately have to pay for it, but sending off papers and whatnot is more troublesome than when something's under the original warranty.

A couyple of nitpicky but important rules interpretation questions (at least important if I don't end up in big trouble before I can act

As I read the Full Burst rules, I ought to be able to fire a wide full burst (a complex action) at the katana wielder without risking hitting our patron (if I try that on the Orc, I would almost certainly hit our patron.) Is that how you rule it?

Also, I don't remember, where we ended up on the extra recoil compensation for strength?

Thanks,
Joel / Mack

PS: It seems obvious to me that if I were so foolsih as to use suppression fire, I would likely hit our patron.

What I was going to suggest is that if the Ork succeeded on his full dodge roll he would have managed to get Ice to take the bullet for him. Fortunately for you he rolled 3 hits instead of 4.

Anyhow. I'm heading to bed. I just wanted to get those soak rolls up tonight. I'll post the actions for Katana Man, the gangers and the cops tomorrow.

Oh, and Joel, yeah, a wide burst could be targeted specifically at the Katana man. A burst and/or suppression on the Ork would hit Ice, no question.

IIRC RC for strength is just my usual house rule. -1 for Str6, -2 for 8, -3 for 10.

When you post their actions, could you include at the end some indication of range? (I have no idea whether we started out 10 meters apart, 1/2 a block=50 meters, or most of a block apart.)

Thanks,
Joel

PS: I can well believe you specified, but I can't seem to figure it out.

Hey guys,

I'm sure at some point Sybercat handed us all some money over, for some reason this is not on my Character Sheet and I can't find the post.
I'm sure she was talking with a silly accent when she was giving it to us.

I could have dreamt this of course. It's been known to happen...

Just wondering how that worked since I ended up with 6 hits. Two on the first roll, and then 4 more rerolling failed dice w/ Edge, and there were no hits in the rightmost couple of dice for either for range and whatnot. I seem to have missed something.

Alex

*headsmack* Count all the dice Dave, not just the rerolls...

Sorry. His final DV is 4S not 2S. I'll fix that IC post. That was my screwup.

Dusty: It was 10,000 From post #294. And yes, she was talking in a stupid accent. I don't blame you for loosing track of it. That was the mammoth post I did where I kept hopping back between you guys and Takishi to get the group together.

I think in my mind I might have specified... but it never quite made it from my head to the keyboard. At any rate, you're basically across the street from them. The alley comes to a T intersection with the street that Ice's shop is on. The shop itself is off to the right just far enough that you can a: use the wall as cover, and b: were unable to see the gangers from any further down the alley.

Everyone is within 5 (give or take) meters though. Effectively short range all around though.

Ouch. That is going to make things much harder for me.
As I read the rules, if the swordsman gets to me [Mack] (and I don't see anything that will stop him), I do not have the option of full defense (gymnastic does not apply, I do not have a melee weapon in hand, and I do not have dodge skill.)
Also, it appears that if I try to fire the gun at him, I will be at -3 for being in melee, even though my melee opponent is my target (assuming I am still standing after he probably cuts me in half.) Yeah, I am feeling a bit pessimistic at the moment.

Obviously, we blew it and came at this from the wrong place. But so it goes. (I would have liked to have been about a block further away. But if wishes were horses and all of that.) We can worry about why we did it wrong later. For now, we have to survive this fight, and preferably accomplish something along the way.

Joel / Mack

Yeah, that's a lot closer than I was thinking/hoping, too. But as I read it:

Say Katana Man ™ (I like Sweeps description, with the capitalization and all) is 5m away. With 3 IP he can only move 3.3 m per pass unless he runs. I don't remember much about rules for melee (and I'm at work), but I seem to remember it's a complex action. Even if it's not, he still gets the -2 for running, yes? So I think you could be mostly okay for the first pass at least, Joel. If he doesn't close, you've got one full-auto shot, at least.

But yeah, at this close range, the priority in my head has shifted from "stopping Crull getting away with Icelady" to "have the team survive". Depending on how convoluted the path of the alley we jsut came out of is, that might not be so hard since Mack can outrun them handily (and if it's twisty stay out of sight) and Takashi and Sweeps have grapple guns and can get up to a roof to open up some space between us. But it's still not a good situation to be in, to be sure.

run away?

EDIT:

Sorry that was aimed at Joel. What I meant was get some distance between you and katana guy?

That is a weird effect of the movement rules. If KatanMan does not declare "running" (which takes a free action) then he reaches me during 1 IP if he has two IP, but is more than a meter away if he has three IP per round. (I'm guessing three IP from the numbers, but it could actually be he has four IP.)
However, the way it looks, that won't matter. He will (I guess) charge. That will negate the -2 for running, and instead give him +2 dice for charging. At a run, even if he has 4 actions, he covers 6 meters. Oh well, best to wait and see what actually happens, instead of imaging the sky falling. (It is an odd effect of play by post that we have so much time to foresee problems, when we can not do anything about them.)

Joel

PS: It is too bad that any self-respecting Orc has more than 4 body, or you might have been able to knock down the one Orc. Nice shot anyway.

Yeah, actually I figured that I was going to until I actually, you know, read the rules and saw that a called shot also requires a "Take Aim" action.

He's got 3 (it was noted in one of the initiative posts). The ork has 2, all the rest have 1. But yeah, I was conflating the rules for running and sprinting, and he does seem to be less than 8 meters away.

(Possibly another foolish misrecollection of the rules:) As I remember it, you can use gymnastics for a melee dodge. It's just that it can only apply to one of melee or ranged in any single round, not both at the same time like dodge. So the sky's still hanging up there.

Looking at the melee rules, my base defense is supposed to be Reaction + one of Weapon, Unarmed, or Dodge skill. Full defense lets you add dodge skill again. There is a note at the end of the Full Defense section that you can use Gymnastic dodge instead of Dodge for full defense. I suppose the GM could rule that I can use gymnastic dodge for the base defense. I wonder where the Ingram would end up? I wonder where I would end up?
My actual inclination is to take the damage from the sword, and see whether I can hit him at that point. (He should have a -3 penalty to defense against guns, and I should have -3 for firing while in melee, and -2 for damage.) Assuming I go with that, the question is whether to go with a wide full burst (-2 recoil, so only 4 dice, but he should be unable to dodge at -12 dice) or a wide long burst (6 dice, -8 dice dodge) followed by a short burst (only 4 dice, but could be wide or narrow. At wide it is -5 dice dodge, plus any penalty from the first hit.)

Joel / Mack

PS: Of course, this also depends upon what the other gang members do when KatanaMan engages me. If they shoot me as well, all bets are off.

Ok... next IC is up. I'll get the cops and Sybercat for Team Van up later.

Joel: Unfortunatly you can't use gymnastics as your base defense. You can however use the Ingram to parry in place of your knives. What I'll rule in that case is that your gun will jam and be unavailable until you have time to fieldstrip it. The other option is to drop the Ingram and use quickdraw to try and get a knife out in time. This would let you do a straight forward knife fight. Remember that he has the same reach as you, it would be a fairly level playing field skill wise and you hit a whole lot harder.

Of course there is also the option of simply taking the sword hit, rolling your reaction, hoping that you soak whatever damage is left over, and then forcing Katana Man to do the chaingun shimmy. Remember he only has 4 dice worth of reaction left for dodging (though if he does opt for full dodge he does have a dodge skill of 4 as well). It's risky, but it would probably end the fight pretty quickly.

Thanks Imperialus. That's fits with how I read the situation.
I will be curious to see which choice the swordsman makes, since at least briefly he has no good choices.
What I am really hoping is that either he uses full defense (I get to shoot again) or the second shot knocks him down.
Of course, the way things have been going....

Also, can Mack at least shift enough that the wall protects him from the rest of the firing?

Thanks,
Mack / Joel

PS: part of the reason for the choice is that I actually have only 1 more damage in hand to hand than he does. And he has at least 3 dice more than I do. So at is at best even, and probably slightly to his advantage for me to engage in melee.

Ok... did the rolls for the cops. I think I crossed all me t's and dotted the i's. Let me know if it isn't clear.

Those gangers sure couldn't roll for shit there... One success on a dodge roll and they would have lived... Sad really.

imperialus,

Just wondering how you worked out the recoil for the gangers shooting and me and Sweeps

The first shots make sense. For the second, it seems like it should be -5 recoil, and still 2 recoil comp, meaning that they get one less die apiece. http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml#3
I can see where you'd get the -3 recoil for a second short burst, 'cause the rules in the BBB aren't the most clearly written (plus the numbers they give in the example are wrong, per the errata), but I don't think I've seen anything on less recoil comp for second shots.

Not trying to be rules-lawyerly or what-have-you, just trying to get a handle on what I can expect from people shooting large quantities of metals at us at high velocities.

Alex

*EDIT* Also, I take it they're firing explosive ammo? Because they look like they're starting with a base DV of 6P before hits.

Hrm... actually my math works the same way. I just calculate it a little differently is all. I'll explain (or at least try to)

There is a total of 3 recoil compensation for the Ingram Smartgun X, a Gas Vent II and a Folding Stock.
Firing two short, narrow bursts puts a total of six bullets in the air for a total recoil of 5.

First Burst: Base recoil was two (first shot never counts), Gas Vent provides two points RC, which cancels that out.
Second Burst: Since the first two shots were already compensated I didn't count them. This means the base recoil for the second burst was 3 but there was only one point of RC left, in the form of the stock. This left two points uncompensated recoil.

Don't ask me why I add up recoil this way... I just always have. Basically I just keep subtracting from the total RC, rather than adding to the total recoil.

And no, the base DV of 6P is me being a moron and reading the wrong bloody weapons table. Thanks for the catch. I don't know how I did that...

That matches the effect I understand you need to end up with. I think it will even produce the same results when trying to figure out whether there is uncompensated (doubled) recoil.

Joel

Sure, that makes sense once it's explained. I just order the math in my head differently, so it just looked kind of odd to me at first.

The gangers damage rolls are fixed.

Oh, and Joel, since you're here just so you know I haven't forgotten about you. I'm just going to post the response to your actions once we get to you in initiative order.

Sorry for the late reply, I'll get my response rolls up tonight.

No problem. I am back home. Yes, the Van crew with higher initiative should be resolved before me. (I figured since I was in a different place, there was no risk of interactions affecting what I choose, or what they choose. I should probably have posted my soak, and left the rest till after the others had a chance.)

Sorry,
Joel

Oh, no worries. The quote button exists for a reason

I sorry, I'm totally confused.

You're using narrow burst on the second shot at Sweeps. you said it was 8P DV.

I got 2 hits and you got 3 hits in our opposed tests (I've not posted it yet as my IC is not finished and I'm confused)

So that makes 5P damage for bullets, +2 for narrow burst, +1 for net hits. so 8P DV, right?

The rules say on page 142 for Narrow bursts "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armour rating."

my armour rating is 8 ballistic for an armour jacket

so this is now stun damage, correct?

I then rolled 3 on my damage resistance test. So I get 5S damage?

Here are my rolls to check before I post up my IC:


Sorry guys, just finding myself running from one page to another trying to suss this out.

Right you are...

You forgot to subtract one from your second dodge roll for getting shot at a second time though.

Bugger, if I take the last dice off that roll then that makes for 6S damage. Crapola, I'm gonna have a headache now.

EDIT:
Hey wait! I didn't knock off -1 to my reactions for having 3P damage already. OH! SHIT this is gonna be baaaaaaad!
amending rolls as needed now.

Do I have to take -1 to my damage resistence test for having 3P of damage too?

No, taking damage you always get your full dice. (Don't remember if it's the only thing, but if not definitely one of the few.)

Right!

Well despite that, Sweeps is now knocked out. He has over shot his stun boxes by two. so will no doubt be taking physical damage in the next action round.

Sorry, Dusty, but you're not done with the headache yet.

For the first shot, the BASE base DV of an SMG is 5P, and the three hits from the ganger is what imperialus put up as 8P. So your two hits on a reaction roll knock it down to 6P, and then your two hits on the soak knock it down to 4S.

For the second same thing. One hit on your reaction means it's 7P, then two hits for the soak means it ends up as 5S. So you're still knocked out, but at least no physical damage rolls over this time

EDIT: Never mind, man, never mind. You're still standing! Wobbly as all get out, but still. I was thinking of your 9 physical boxes filling up, but stun goes from willpower.

This leads to the question of what next. Takashi did beautifully.

Assuming that KatanaMan falls, but is not out, Takashi (and Sweeps) could (should?) shoot him again.

The question is how to stop the suppressive fire so we can get out there and grab Crull and IceLady.
Yeah, the gangers have only one action. But an oddity of the rules is that suppressive fire from a slow character lasts longer (for the same number of bullets) as that from a fast character. Presumably, given how close together we are, and basically in the alley mouth, if any of us try to step out we have to avoid / take damage from both 5P suppressive shots. (not out of the question.)
Does it help any if I throw one (or even two) flashbangs? They are 6S, -3AP, with no range modification for distance from my target. If I throw them past the car, I should be able to get them in range of the gangers, and out of range of us. (I am not sure if it will help us enough, as we will still be acting during the suppression, and it will hurt IceLady. But presumably not too badly. Also would need to check with Imperialus to confirm that this would be a blind throw (-6) plus damage (-2) but no other modifiers.)

Takashi, you have any more tricks up your sleeve?

Mack / Joel

Well, the way it was described it seemed to me that the suppressive fire was only focusing on Sweeps and me (rationalize it as they're being more controlled than suppressive fire in the RAW to avoid shooting KatanaMan.)

I was figuring that if I knocked the guy suppressing me down on my next IP, that would stop his suppressing effect on me because otherwise I'd have to avoid his rather accurate suppressive fire for 2 more IPs (No support for this in the rules, but it seems logical). KatanaMan is the more dangerous target, but I think it's worth having more freedom of action. Unless KatanaMan is positioned such that I can shoot him without breaking cover. Another thing to consider is how soon the ork can get Icelady into the car. If he can get her inside in his next IP, then it might be worth it to go after him, even.

No tricks, just a pistol and a couple points of edge.

Oh yeah, knockdown. When I said still standing, I meant flying into a heap of rubbish.

They are being a bit more controlled yes. This is largely because we don't have a battlemat, and trying to calculate overlapping fields of fire and the like would be next to impossible in a play by post.

Anyhow, at the end of the day, it looks like Sweeps is still standing, but barely, and he has a -4 to his dice rolls. -1 due to physical wounds, -3 due to stun damage.

Mack, go ahead and toss the flashbang if you want. I'll at least rule that it ends their suppression early in addition to the stun damage... after all, in real life that's exactly what they're supposed to do.

Anyhow, the next IC is up. Sybercat's action was to chat it up with you guys. This brings us to Padre. Then the Ork with Team Ice, Mack, the Van Gangers, and finally Crull. Just so you know Mickle, you might want to cover the cop. She's pretty vulnerable right now and has two gangers aiming SMG's at her. They'd be at medium range and have no cover if you do want to shoot.

*edit* Oh, and Sweeps is out of sight for the gangers. You don't need to worry about them shooting at him anymore unless he sticks his head up.

Well, if Mack does that instead of the LMG bursts, I'm perfectly content to shoot KatanaMan twice while he's not looking, which should hopefully free up Mack to fire more accurately in his next IP without the ranged from melee modifier.

(And I read called shot more fully last night, such that I now believe that it is just a free action. The "may Take Aim and call a shot" part of the BBB just means that the two actions are compatible - i.e. you don't have to take a shoot action just after a call shot action, not that the two have to go together. If I'd known that, I probably would have knocked down the ork at the beginning, until I reread and second-guessed myself and whatnot. Ah well, so it goes. In any case, I'm reasonably confident that I won't be changing my mind on how it works in the future, which isn't nothinig.)

I stick with the LMG burst (what I already posted) for my first IP.
Trying to throw grenades out of melee just is a recipe for disaster.
What I am hoping is that KatanaMan will have some trouble with the LMG shots, which will give me a chance to do something else on my second IP of the round. (throw the grenade. I don't know if Takashi has two or three actions. In any case, on the next round he will go before the gangers. And if the suppressive fire is stopped, you can accomplish something. Eventually, I expect we have to run in and grab the two targets.)
Some of this is confusion caused by my posting slightly ahead, and trying to think ahead. (Sometimes this causes me to borrow trouble.)

Joel

Yeah, me too. The suppressive fire throws things off since its effects don't map cleanly onto IPs, so my thinking about the timing of things was a little off.

But in any case, thinking through everything, your plan makes sense.

I think Sweeps is going to stay down for now. Consider him severely shaken by that attack.

Thanks for helping me out with that confusion. Sorry if it held things up.

I thought narrow bursts increase the base DV+2.

Page 142 of BBB:

"Narrow bursts are intended to inflict a target with maximum damage. Narrow bursts increase the attackers DV by +2.
Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating"

So I think I was right the first time on the 6S damage for first shot and now 7S for second. Am I wrong?

Oh yeah, you're totally right. I figured that the base DV that imperialus had posted referred to the 3 net hits, since 8DV didn't make sense otherwise, so I forgot about the burst. But if it was the mistaken 6DV that he had originally thought + the 2DV for a burst, then that explains it too. So yeah, it'd work out to be 7 and 5, but back to 12 in any case. So now you are unconscious in the rubbish pile again. Sorry.

You had the right idea all the way up at the top of the page, and then imperialus and I started correcting things.

lol ok.

so all my stun boxes are gone. +2 physical overflow.

Imperialus, you may need to amend your IC with regard to Sweeps.