Having a spreading, not aspected background count affect your area of symbiosis is definitely an environmental problem, the way I see it. Of course, YMMV.

Oh, and the Steppin' Wulfs I last saw detailed in the LA section of Corporate Enclaves.

Doesn't the CZ thing say the character becomes a domain in her own right?

The trick is that it's a domain the character isn't accorded to... Maybe if you're a toxic mage youy might be able to accord with it, but that would open a whole new can of worms. And even if you're accorded to it, a fixed magic of one won't get you far.

The biggest problem with symbiosis is that the character is compelled to settle down and bond with an area, and background count expands when you stay in one area for too long. So even if you rule that the background count doesn't count as pollution for purposes of the symbiosis, the expanding background count will still eventually draw attention.

Unless I get a regular Cleansing right? I still think, if I want Glamour, I'll go for SURGE rather than Dryad. A Dryad's Symbiosis doesn't seem to work with what I'm going for, thematically speaking.

yeah, it's tricky . .
the CZ gains a magic of 1 that keeps him alive, if i remember correctly.
either he is allways in an Rating 4 BGC that makes him effectively Magic 5 or he is dead because the -4 takes his life keeping magic down to -3 . .

Or, he's always equal to 1, can't have any other magic powers/skills/qualities, and no sneaky crap.

i won't even begin arguing that.
but he IS in a BGC of 4 with a magic attribute of 1.
If he did not start out with a Magic Attribute of -3(impossible to begin with) something doesn't add up.

His Magic is always a 1, just his effective Magic for well, using magic, is a -3.

Since the cyberzombie is demonstrably not dead by its very existence, I would postulate that the background count is either aspected towards the cyberzombie, or doesn't affect it. In the former case, they would still not have a Magic of 5, since their Magic of 1 is explicitly defined as not able to be increased by any means.


The other thematic problem with a charismatic elf that doesn't look like a cyberzombie, is that getting to a negative Essence is virtually impossible with limited resources and the low Essence cost of most bioware. So I would get some choice bits of bioware (such as tailored pheromones), but still use cyberware whenever possible - there is a lot of cyberware that is not cosmetically obvious. Things like wired reflexes: 3 with reaction enhancers: 3, senseware with the works, etc. I would use cyberware even when there is a more optimal bioware alternative (muscle replacement: 4 instead of muscle augmentation/toner, for example). Because, again, you are trying to get your Essence down to a decently high negative number.

Another Question:
What is the maximum you are allowed to use for negative essence for your character?
Did the GM say anything about that?

That's not a real problem, even without resorting to "the rules don't say you can't" crap. Just get as many Reusable Autoinjectors (Used? Just kidding.) as you need. Or Datajacks, or Smuggling Compartments, etc. Right? After you've already got all the real 'ware you want, of course.

Don't the rules limit the negative essence, something about making the magic/life support harder?

To a -6, yes. And it makes the process harder because with the necessary test after the CZ surgery, when they have to roll well enough to avoid a crapload of Negative Qualites or, in the worst-case scenario, not waking up at all, every point of negative Essence or part thereof adds to the threshold for that test. There might be other associated difficulties during the actual procedure too, but I can't remember those atm.

Hmm, does it get harder for other people to tell if the CZ is still alive too? O.o
I mean . . place some modded out the ass(literally) CZ next to a JarBrain Cyborg and ask somebody to tell the difference . .

Well, you see, the JarBrain Cyborg is the one with less chrome! It may be the more obviously mechanical of the two, but one of those things has positive Essence, and the other does not. And I'm limited to a -6 Essence, as per the rules.

Ok, so I'm having a bit of a time figuring out all of this guy's 'wares, but I had a question - can I pick up new SURGE qualities after chargen? I ask 'cause it would be nice to be able to pick up Metagenetic Improvement at some point (I plan to pick up Glamor to begin with).

You cannot purchase qualities after Chargen, except with explicit GM approval. I would say that this goes double for metagenetic qualities. Triple if you've already purchased some at CG. As far as I'm aware, you can't Goblinize/Changlingize(?) twice.



~R~

That's what I thought, though given the nature of SURGE (Sudden Recessive Genetic Expression) it seems reasonable to SURGE after chargen.

Oh, and if I say, wanted to be able to do some magic stuff, despite my Magic being limited to 1 and my BGC of 4, what would I do? And what can I do that doesn't really care that my Magic is 1?

A cyberzombie can attack astral forms physically, and use the assensing skill, and that's about it. This is assuming someone who was mundane prior to becoming a cyberzombie.

Getting the magician or adept quality for someone you know won't lose Essence from implantation, and won't need a Magic rating higher than 1 is, in my opinion, a bit cheesy, even for a "freaks" campaign. If you lack any sense of shame, though ... for a magician, it is best to be an aspected sorcerer (especially if the optional Expert Aspected Magician rules (pg. 31 of Street Magic) are used). You can get counterspelling, and suddenly your cyberzombie is even more resistant to spells. Actively dispelling will just give you physical Drain, but spell defense is not affected by your Magic rating (or even by background count... I think). For an adept, you can get 1 Power Point in abilities - say, kinesics: 1, commanding voice, and cool resolve: 1 for your elven face. A mentor spirit could add bonuses to either option.

Given that the qualities say, "not allowed if you're not really going to 'explore' being Awakened', it still seems well within the 'rules' for the GM to laugh at you.

Cheesy, yes. But an interesting thought exercise none the less. I'm interested to see what I could do, if I went that route.



But that's precisely what I want to do! I want to explore being Awakened in the context of someone who has been turned into a mockery of life and held together by obscene magics !

Which would be completely useless, as the background count he's in negates up to 4 point's worth of Adept powers and he has only one...

Part of the Cyberzombie process is that you DIE .. and they use dark possession magic to force your spirit back into your body. Making you dual natured, giving you a magic rating of 1, and an astral hazing BC of 4.

You can't be an adept, because even if you WERE an adept in the past, your magic rating went down to 0 during the procedure. You burned out, you lost it. The magic Rating of 1 is a mechanic to show that you're dual natured.
Not that you get to keep some adept powers.

I think it's even worse than that, sabs. I think they're saying, Awakened *after*, if you can imagine.

Is that what Chicanery they're saying?

I mean.. the CZ process turns the person's soul into a bound Toxic Free Spirit inhabiting the cybered up body in a way that he can still use the cyberware in the body.

it's creeeeeepy weird voodoo magic stuff. (Literally, rumor was that Aztlan when developing this technology used Voodoo magic and blood magic )

The idea that you awaken afterwards and get Adept powers.. WTF

No, the idea is that you were awakened before, and then because your Magic gets brought back to 1 because of the freaky voodoo blood magic you get to become sorta kinda reawakened. It's just a thought exercise at this point, I'm interested more in what I could do, rather than what I will do.

It is an exotic (and somewhat abusive !) reading of the description of the cybermantic procedure. While it explicitely stat that it removes any Resonance and technomantic ability or potential the character may have had prior to the procedure, it did not explicitely said what happens to the magical qualities (like Mage, Adept or Latent Awakening) that the character had.

My guess is that it was overlooked as no sane magically active character would undergo that kind of procedure, and my houseruling would be that such qualities are destroyed too. But it is my interpretation of RAI rather than strict RAW which is unclear on the topic.

Well, the explicit no-Resonance is merely because it's 100% impossible to have Magic and Resonance, that's all.

You're right, it is an exotic (and somewhat abusive) reading - however, my Magic is hardmaxed at 1, I can only initiate once, and I'm the center of a BGC of 4, so it's not like I'm gonna be an übermage in addition to being an übermensch Cyberzombie. I'm more interested in it from a fluff perspective than a mechanical one, but I like to have the mechanics fit the fluff.

And I doubt any sane being of any stripe would voluntarily undergo the procedure, except in the most dire of straights. My CZ had it foisted upon him rather than choosing it anyhow.

Once you burn out, you can never re-awaken again.
Read the rules for dropping bellow 1 magic.

SR4A Pg 177

Yeah, that's why I misunderstood (?) about Awakening *after* cyberzombification.

That's true, but might this be a special case, as a CZ is pretty decidedly not mundane (having a permanent Magic of 1)?

And can you Awaken after zombification?

Occam says no

It's not a particularly exotic reading given that the procedure explicitly reduces pre-existing magic to 1, rather than burning you out and giving you a new magic rating.


Whether you can do anything useful with that magic of 1 is debatable though, since there's no explanation of how it interacts with the background count from the astral hazing.

You're literally not a person any more, right? It's literally a kind of spirit possessing itself? (I'm asking.) *shrug*. This is just for the sake of argument, because the super-obvious answer is '*face slap for even asking*'.

Ooh, nice catch. And yeah, that's kinda my question - what can I do with a Magic of 1, at the center of a BGC of 4?

And Occam doesn't enter into it, as (at least as far as I can see) we lack two competing theories which both equally explain the given phenomenon, but of differing complexity.

The answer is "not much", because since your actual Magic score is reduced to 0 thanks to the BC you generate, you are unable to use any magical ability (Street Magic p 118) - this probably include Counterspelling since it's a Magic-based skill.

You can still Assense and engage astral entities in astral combat (but don't forget you suffer from a -4 Visibility penalty), but it's because your dual-natured quality stays on even if your effective magic rating is being reduced to 0 (again, Street Magic p. 118 : "At the gamemaster's discretion, paranormal critters may also lose access to some of their critter powers as a result o a reduced Magic attribute." and the rules for Cyberzombies). Also Assensing and Astral Combat are respectively based on Intuition and Willpower rather than Magic.

It is quite reasonable to assume that the authors wrote it that way, because it was easier than to write:
if the character had magic before it goes down to 0, and then is raised to 1 by the process.

Also it says that the Magic Rating cannot be used by any means. This to me implies that it's a different Magic Rating than what you had as a magician or adept.

This is rules-lawyery-dickery at it's finest. this is like. "The definition of the word IS" level of rules lawyery.

Yeah, it's certainly not an unreasonable belief that it's a 'new' magic rating. I personally tend to take the approach of using what's written as opposed to what may have been intended when there's no evidence for either being more correct. (Given that cyberzombies were never really intended as a player choice, it was actually probably overlooked as not very relevant.)

It should be obvious that a cyberzombie's magic rating is not reduced by their own astral hazing, as any other interpretation means that cyberzombies can't exist, since the next paragraph after my quote says they die if their magic is ever reduced to 0 by any means. Depending on how loose you want to be with the interpretation of the hazing as a domain, this might be because the hazing is aspected towards the cyberzombie's magic.

Ultimately though, the cyberzombie rules really should be taken as the gamemaster guidelines they were intended to be. If I were actually trying to play one as a PC, I'd generally be asking the GM's interpretation of such things, since that's what really matters. If that's not an option, it's probably best to aim for the interpretation that keeps you in the same power level as the other players . (And I'm pretty sure that an actual magic-using cyberzombie is going to be pretty over the top for most games.)

With the way a cyberzombie's amgic is fixed at 1 no matter what, it's probably more a side effect of the binding magic acting a sort of filter between the character's soul and the astral than what an awakened metahuman gets to play with. Which in my opinion will destroy any sort of awakaned ability the character might have had before getting turned int oa cyberzombie.
An example of that would be Burnout, the CZ from the hearth of dragon trilogy. He was a former Aztechnology mage and didn't keep any of it's previous abilities. Though it's unclear wether he had already burned his magic out before getting turned into a cyberzombie or not.

That would in my opinion make theis magic rating it fixed for 'internal' purposes - the binding magic shields it from external factors - but affected normaly by background count and the like for 'external' purposes.

Wait does this mean that a CZ that walks into a BC 1 they're not aspected to, dies instantly?

No, their own Background count of 4 would override that one i think . .

so they blow up if they walk into a BC of 5+

It's gloriously unclear . Street Magic doesn't have anything about how multiple background counts interact (that I can find anyway), because it can't happen under normal circumstances.

It does mean the quickest way to kill a CZ is to use a high force mana static spell. (Or an edged casting to unlink successes from force.)

with Edge to unhinge success from force is probably your better bet.

Also, go astral, and stun bolt him into the ground, while you keep him away with a mana barrier.

The problem with mana/stun bolt is that they have resistance tests associated with them. Mana static is a no save insta-death. You'd need to cast it at force 5 and get 5 or more successes using edge, which isn't terribly hard for a caster that would realistically face a CZ. (Force 5 because it'll be reduced to F1 by hazing, with edge to unlink successes you can keep the 5+ it takes to generate a BC of 5.)

Mana static is also a M spell, so you can still murder the CZ from astral space .

So how does our CZ, having gained the will to live, keep from being geeked by the next mage he runs across?

By standing in a BGC of 4, which makes Spells of Force 4 and below simply fizzle?

All that assuming that the CZ's hazing doesn't override any other BC in -essence meters of them. Which would actually make right next to the CZ the safest place for a mage in space to be.

Ah, yes, the old idea of the dwarf cyberzombie torso without legs and arms strapped to the back of a troll or ork mage in space ^^