Ooh, that's cool. Are they still taking submissions? Have they worked out any legal CZs for that project?

I've been looking to your CZ as a guide on getting exactly -6 Essence . Thanks for the advice as always.

I'll look into boosting my reaction as well - I'm trying to figure SURGE out, so maybe I can use that to bump it up?

That thread is pretty much whoever wants to post something. I got a sammie on page 9 I believe with a 10 (15) agility. He is something like 7P/20 dice unarmed and 22~26 dice with every firearm in the game. He also has a fairly complete background and is a rather scary guy (both ability wise and crazy wise).

If you haven't noticed, I'm all about the cyber. I got into Shadowrun from Cyberpunk 2020, since they weren't putting anything new out and the system was pretty dated.

The cyber and vehicles, I've noticed. And I'll look forward to your Sammie (I'm only on page 3 so far).

On another note, I have more karma to play with. They all got boosted to 1300, so that's the new number for me as well. What should I prioritize, attributes-wise for the 158 karma I now have left for stats?

Oh, and a quick question - did you ever calculate out how much you spent on your 400 BP CZ's 'wares?

Edit: So I'm thinking of increasing my Intuition and Reaction, primarily, and perhaps my Agility, Body, and Logic if I have the points. How does that sound?

Considering that the 400BP CZ's wares are all Delta grade, how about a *LOT*. Several million, since just his MBW3 is 1.75 million.

As for your attributes, figure out how much bonus your getting from your warez. You can get +5 strength and +1 body, so make sure that you take those as even numbers if you max your warez for them. Since your using the x3 cost, increasing Reaction and Intuition to 5 will cost you 30 karma. I'd look at getting your Intuition and Willpower even higher than that since they are what you use to resist the CZ "Going Crazy" checks. Try to get them to total 12+ (6 and 6 being cheapest of course, though 7 willpower gives you another stun damage box). The below will leave you with 26 karma left over.

Body: 8 (105 Karma) Will be 8 (9) with Suprathyroid
Agility: 9 (126 Karma) Will be 9 (14) with Suprathyroid & Muscle Toner/Replacement 4
Reaction: 5 (42 Karma) Will be 5 (15) with Suprathyroid, MBW3, Reaction Enhancer 3
Strength: 4 (27 Karma) Will be 4 (9) with Suprathyroid & Muscle Augmentation/Replacement 4
Charisma: 11 (180 Karma)
Intuition: 5 (42 Karma)
Logic: 7 (81 Karma) Will be 7 (10) with Cerebral Booster 3
Willpower: 7 (81 Karma)

Cost of the Wares would be:
Suprathyroid, MBW3, Reaction Enhancer 3, Cerebral Booster 3, Muscle Replacement 4: $300k, C: 9.9, B: 1.3
-or-
Suprathyroid, MBW3, Reaction Enhancer 3, Cerebral Booster 3, Muscle Augmentation 4, Muscle Toner 4: $340k, C: 5.9, B: 2.9

I would go with the second option, then throw in a set of level 4 eyes and ears, attention coprocessor, invoked memory stimulator, Olfactory Booster 6, Orientation System, Radar Sensor 4, Taste Booster 6, Ultrasound sensor, skillwire expert system, & Dermal Sheath 2 (C: 3.8 ). That will take you to 9.7 from Cyber, allowing 4.6 from Bio of which you have already used 2.9, so 1.7 left.

Bio get Enhanced Pheromone Receptors 3 (0.1), Tailored Pheromones 3 (0.6), Platelet Factories (0.2), Trauma Damper (0.2), and Bone Density 2 (0.6) [total: 1.7]. You could always drop the Platelet Factories & Trauma Damper, then take PuSHed & Bone Density 3. Make you punch a little harder and +1 die on Logic test, though not quiet as tough.

That leaves me with 26 Karma that could go to attributes - maybe I should raise Logic by one? That would leave me with 2 Karma available for attributes, which would obviously roll into skills or something else. But does a +1 Log benefit me as much as 26 points worth of skills would?

As to the 'wares, I'm being given something of a free hand with them. Price is virtually no object, so I can pack deltaware in there. I still have to keep track of how much it's worth, but my GM figures that the rest of the party has seen enough wealth throughout the game that it'll work out. And I agree, I'd rather go with Muscle Toner/Augmentation than out and out Replacement.

Good advice here, though I would personally push for getting Intuition and Willpower to a total of 20 if at all possible. With 20 dice you can buy 5 successes on the 'life as a cyberzombie sucks' rolls, which will entirely prevent you from any lack of drug badness until the first year of life is done. (Base threshold 1, +1 per week since last test that you haven't gotten drugs. Since it's a monthly test, the number of weeks will never exceed 4, max threshold is therefore 5. For year 2, the base threshold goes to 2, so you need to take drugs at least once a month, and so on until year 5 where life really starts sucking .)

And just because I know someone will want this (emphasis mine):


In terms of using deltaware, you should probably make sure that 'anything goes' really means anything goes, or stick with only using delta for the stuff that's not super expensive to being with. A full delta CZ can probably push 8 digits worth of 'ware without trying terribly hard.

26 karma worth of skills will likely be more useful than any individual stat point, unless that stat point pushes you up to being able to make some threshold you wouldn't be able to without it.

So how do I get my Intuition+Willpower pool to 20? I think there is an Intuition-equivalent of the neocortical nanites, which would help, but apart from that I'm not sure how to get a pool of 20, apart from a 10 in each stat.


One of the Nosferatoi has calculated out his total wealth for the 1.5+ years they've been playing, and it's in the billions of nuyen, so I should be ok there. I'll check though, just to be sure.


Sounds like I'm putting that karma into skills then.

There's not really much that add to Intuition or Willpower. There's a few (cheap) drugs that do for a limited time. Daredrenaline gives +1 dice to all willpower tests. Sadly the genetic infusions that add to one subtract from the other, so can't get a bonus there. (Though you could get Braveheart + Inspiration for a net gain of +1 logic and +2 impact armor .)

Mostly you're stuck with just raising the attributes themselves, unless your gm will count temporary drug bonuses for the test, and even then you're only looking at gaining 2 or 3 points.

Not sure if your GM is going to make you roll it or not, but technically you'll need to make an INT+WIL+Binding* vs threshold 9 test at the start of your existence. You get 10 uncompensated BP worth of negative qualities, plus another 10 per point by which you fail that threshold. (*Binding is the skill of the lead magician creating you, I would imagine most in that business will be skill 6 or 7.) If you have to roll this, you're going to want to have as many dice as possible so you don't get saddled with a lot of negative qualities.

Also, if he's really at billions of nuyen you're really going to be unlimited in terms of 'ware, you'll pretty much be able to buy everything you ever wanted at delta grade, and then downgrade stuff to get your essence total to 12 points spent.

Alright, so I talked to the GM, he says that I'm to take a free hand, though I don't want to go too crazy. If I can, I'd like to bring it in under a billion, as that seems to be a nice round number. And it turns out I misunderstood the Nosferatu's player - the whole group together has made over a billion nuyen, not just him individually.

It's too bad about the lack of Will and Int boosters - though I could have sworn there were nanites in Augmentation that went to Int linked tests. Still, those might be Int linked skill tests, so I'm still out of luck. I am going to have to roll that Int+Will+Binding test, but don't teamwork benefits apply? If not, I'm going to need to move some points around, to increase my Int and Will.

This is going to be a lot of fun - when I get back from work I'm going to start looking at what 'wares to buy.

A quick question, too, does Geneware count as Bioware for calculating the "Whichever form of ware you have which has lower essence cost is halved" equation, or do I count it separately?

There's only 2 kinds

CyberWare/bioware

Nanites fall under cyberware, geneware falls under bioware.

Technically nanites don't fall under either, since they have no essence cost. Nano-cybernetics are cyberware though.

And yeah, there are a couple things that boost INT or WIL linked skill tests, and are thus not so useful for the case I was referring to. (They're still nice things to have though.)

A billion nuyen basically means you can buy one of everything and have money to burn btw .

Sounds good. I'll work on a write up when I get home.

I'm thinking about swapping this:



For this:



Leaving me with 14 Karma left over and more knowledge skills, a higher Int+Will, and slightly less Charisma.

What do you think/can someone check my math?

I got bored so I made this up for you. Your math looks good, and you can consider swapping your Body and Intuition around. Also, if drop your Strength to 2 (it will be 7 with 'ware), you can raise your Agility to 10. That way your modified Reaction and Agility will both be 15, while your Initiative will be 23.

Wow! That's a lot of stuff. Is that total cost with the deltaware increase, or without? If it's the latter, it's still an acceptable 120 million (I can't believe I just typed that). I'll look at swapping Body and Intuition, since my Body is more easily increased with 'wares; and I'll probably drop my Strength to increase agility.

With what you've given me here, I should be able to figure out what I want pretty easily, thanks!

The cost is actually the cost with the deltaware increase included in it. As scary as it is, I could have fitted more in, but I didn't want to bother with Adaptson, Cyberware Suites, etc.

The thing about swapping your body and intuition isn't because you can easily increase your body with 'wares (it is already maxed at +1 for everything and an additional +3 for soak), but the fact that you are already going to be a tank. 7 Body, 12 points of Hardened Armor, 4/3 from the Dermal Sheath, and 1/1 (+3 soak) from the bone lacing give you 17/16 armor (12/12 hardened) and 10 body dice in your birthday suit. In addition, any damage that does get through will be reduced by the Platelet Factory and Trauma Dampener. Throw on some good armor and you'll be throwing 40+ dice to soak attacks that actually have a chance of hurting you.

No, the increase in Intuition was because it is a very important attribute. "CZ Going Crazy" check, initiative, perception are all dependent on it. That first one is the most important for you.

Of course, you have like +7 or +8 to all perception test, addition dice depending on the sense used (Vision +3, Hearing +3, Smell +6~+9, Taste +6, Touch +2), and major sense `ware (all vision modes, hearing modes, ultrasonic sensor, radar sensor, heat sensing). You can also track by smell, recognize people by smell and taste, are almost impossible to lie to (even harder if you get lie detector sensorsoft), and know pretty much everything happening around you.

Your passive defense will be 17 dice (15 Reaction +2 Reakt) against ranged and 26 dice (15 reaction +2 Reakt +6 Dodge +3 MBW) against melee. Take Dodge 6 with a specialization in Ranged, just do it. Active defenses using Dodge (Ranged Specialty) will be 28 dice against ranged and 35 dice against melee. Very little has a chance of hitting you.

You cannot even come CLOSE to spending a Billion Nuyen in Delta Grade Ware...

Well, that's good. I asked my GM for a hard number and he said I have 15,000,000 to play with.

Well I guess it is a good thing that all the 'ware I listed, even after you add in the Commlink, Chem Gland chemical, and Reflex Recorders won't hit even $13M.

Is this character even really a Shadowrunner at this point? He's more like a mobile weapons platform than anything resembling a human being. I understand that this is for a 'freaks' game, but are the other characters this ridiculously overpowered? Because if they are, you guys could most likely just storm an Ares base, steal yourself a space shuttle, and singlehandedly take out the Corporate Court. Bonus points if you can soak a Thor shot.


All in all...




~R~

In earnest, I'm not sure (if this guy is still a 'runner, or if the other characters are this ridiculously overpowered) - but it's what they asked me to play. And I suspect that they're similarly powerful, having the same amount of Karma and a similar amount of cash to spend as I do. At least, I would hope they are similarly powerful. Of course, as I understand it, this is less a kick-in-the-door-and-laugh-maniacally-while-unloading-your-minigun campaign and more a surgical-strike/social sort of game. It's been described as WoD like in that respect.

What if I were to have Orthoskin instead of the Dermal Sheath, and Bone Density Augmentation instead of Bone Lacing? This sounds pretty sweet, for a character who's not focused on being a Tank.


I see your point.


I'd like to take Gymnastics with a spec in Parkour, could I do both Dodge and Gymnastics or would that be redundant? And is Reakt a drug? I'm trying to avoid them, on the whole, as I don't have the (negative) essence left to lose some to addiction. Are there any other Reaction boosters I'm missing?

Sorry about not getting the 'wares writeup posted last night. It should be up when I get home today (I just want to check it over one more time).

Reakt is a Genetic Alteration if I remember Correctly (which costs Essence, so win for you)... it is a really nice one though...

You want:

Neo-EPO (0.2): +1DP modifier to all skills from Athletics skill group and Fatigue tests
Reakt (0.4): +2DP to all reaction etsts to defend themselves, (cumulative with other reaction enhancers)
Synch (0.3): +1 dp to perception, when in combat +1DP to all combat tests against opponents after the enemy's first attack.

Wow, its' hard to drop into negative essence, when you can afford delta grade.
I'm at .37 essence and I have:

Move-by-Wire System Rating 3
Skillwire Expert System
Bone Lacing (Titanium)
Muscle Augmentation 4
Muscle Toner 4
Datajack
Synthacardium 4
Attention Coprocessor 3
Platelet Factories
Trauma Dampener
Neo-EPO
Reakt
Synch
Orthoskin 3
Genetic Optimization (Agility)
Genetic Optimization (Reaction)
Genetic Optimization (Charisma)
Genetic Optimization (Strength)
Genetic Optimization (Body)
Tailored Pheromones 3
Flare Compensation
Smartlink
Image Link
Protective Covers
Low-Light Vision
Thermographic Vision

Indeed it is...

on the plus side, I'm the 6 million dollar man

You don't want to use Orthoskin and Bone Density Aug, unless you want to start getting even more `ware. They are Bioware with a much cheaper essence cost. Since Bioware is your lower total, all essence cost from Bioware is halved. I was already at the point of having trouble finding things to implant as it is (you got pretty much everything but the kitchen sink, unless you want to start adding cyberlimbs which are a whole other can of worms). Dermal Sheathing has the highest protection (4/3, compared to Orthoskins max of 3/3) and you can pull the "Ghost in the Shell" bit of taking off your cloths and turning invisible since your whole body is a stealth suit. The Titanium Bone Lacing gives 1/1 armor, while giving +3 to body for soak test compared to the no armor and +4 body for soak test from the Bone Density. They both do the same damage unarmed.

The reason you want to take Dodge 6 is your Move by Wire 3 gives you a +3 skill mod for Dodge. With a Dodge 6 and MBW3, your effective Dodge skill is 9. For Gymnastics, you only have a +2 on skill test (+1 from Enhanced Articulation and +1 from Neo-EPO). You can also get a +1 skill mod if you take Reflex Recorder for Gymnastics or Athletics SG. Skill test bonus dice and skill mods are different, especially on full defense. Skill test bonus dice are only added once no mater what. Skill mods are added every time a skill is added. Since Full Dodge and Full Parry both add the skill twice, you get double out of a Skill mod.

As an example, I'll work the numbers if you max out Gymnastics (+2 skill checks, +1 skill mod, no specialty helps) and Dodge (+3 skill mod, Ranged specialty).
- You passive defense against ranged will skill be 17 and your passive defense against melee will be 17+skill. The skill has to be from the Close Combat SG or Dodge, since you can't use Gymnastics in passive defense. Gymnastics fails here.
- For active defense against ranged attacks: a Full Dodge would net you 28 dice as stated before, while a Gymnastics Dodge would net you 26 dice. Not much difference granted, but the GM is perfectly in his rights to say you don't have enough room to use Gymnastics Dodge.
- For active defense against melee attacks: a full Dodge would net you 35 dice, while a Gymnastics Dodge is a little complicated. If the GM says you can add Gymnastics twice (which is a bit of a house rule, Gymnastics Dodge says "add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against ether ranged or melee attacks") -and- considers it a Gymnastics roll (most likely in the case of this house rule), you would 33 dice. Best case scenario and still has the "not enough space" problem. If he rules that it must be combined with a basic Melee defense (the way it is written), you would take your Reaction (15) + Reakt (+2) + Gymnastics w/ mods (+9) + Dodge/Unarmed/Blade/Blunt depending on your base defense. Most GMs that go this route will normally make you use a base defense of Dodge. With a maxed out Dodge you would end up with 35 dice, but this would require maxing two skills and still has the "not enough space" problem.

You forgot +3 from Synthcardium for Gymnastics.

And currently Bioware is the largest number on the stuff I listed, not cyber.

Even with MBW3

I think he meant me, actually. I'll have to check out your list as well sabs, see what I can pull from it.

I was talking to Whiskey. And if he goes heavier on the Bio he'll never get down to -6. He would have to get more than 16 points of Bioware (Genetics doubled since there is no grade for them) and that means pretty much taking everything even if he doesn't need it. Plus it would bust his 15 mil budget since my Cyber heavy list comes in not to far short of 13 mil and Bio is a heck of a lot more expensive.

As a side note, my hands are nice and tingly after firing off 300 rounds of 45 acp. Wow I love the new XDm-45.

Well, to throw another potential wrench into my plans, what if I wanted to get lower cyberlegs? I was planning on it, so I could have the hydraulic jacks, but that could cause problems if I were to put some of the stuff currently taking up essence into the legs, wouldn't it?

And I tend to prefer .22 for plinking, much cheaper that way. Not as much fun, but much cheaper.

Definitely much cheaper... .22 is my choice for plinking as well... Ruger 22/45 Target Model...

Hydraulic Jacks require two full cyberlegs. And if you wanted to go cyberlimbs you should have said so in the beginning. Totally different build since you really don't have to put any points into Strength or Agility. Buy all the limbs and torso, customize them all to Strength 12, Agility 13, and Body 12. That raises the cost of each limb by $42k, without taking any of their space. You would drop the bone lacing since it won't help you all cyberlimbed up like that. Hell, buy Genetic Optimization in each of those attributes, spend +$46.5k extra per limb, and get them at Strength 13, Agility 14, Body 13. Then make sure you get an Articulate Weapon Arm for the Torso, pop a White Knight LMG on it, and rock&roll.

I've been firing my XDm-45 (.45 acp), Kahr PM-9 (9mm Para), and NAA Pug (.22 WMR) lately. Sometimes I pull out the Ruger 10/22.

My GM is allowing jacks with two partials. I'd rather not go for a full cyberlimbed monstrosity, if I can, just the two partials for the jumping jacks and the capacity (though looking at that last part makes me wonder why I thought that was a good idea).

I just got back from work, so I should be able to buckle down and get a list out for your perusal.

Oh, and apparently we're getting a Pixie Tech Adept Gnome Technomancer Rigger, too. And they're all fine with me being an Adept. So now I have a question - can an Adept counterspell, or would I have to be a Mystic Adept?

An adept can't counterspell.
And he did say much earlier on he considered taking lower legs for the jacks, but nothing else.

I'll just go sit back and get back to enjoying this now ^^

And how are you supposed to split your single Magic point between spellcasting and adept ? (assuming you are still going the CZ route and your astral hazing does not dampen your magical abilities into oblivion)

You do not have to split the one point... one point to Adept abilities, and then you purchase Counterspelling, because you have a Magic Point... Since the Magic point is not actively used in Counterspelling for counterspelling on the fly, the argument is that you can still counterspell... I do not necessarily agree with that, but there it is...

Mystic adepts have the option to split their magic between adept powers/spellcasting. There's no requirement for you to have either one be above zero. So, 1 point in adept powers, 0 in casting. The only requirements for taking counterspelling are: Magician or Mystic Adept and Magic >= 1, both of which are being met.

It's like 'freak' means 'actively abusing loopholes'. Oh well. I'm not sure you'll even *need* counterspelling, but it's nice to have!

Yeah, that's what I mean, sabs.

does he need counter spelling with a BC of 4?

With a BC of 4 and most stats above 6 it's really not a case of need so much as, 'why not?'.

And I wouldn't really consider the mystic adept thing a loophole, considering the quality itself explicitly tells gm's not to let it be abused. So if the gm will allow it, there's not really any issue .

I just had this idea for an Adept/Magician killer.

Cybered up Wrestler character with Astral hazing.

He charges the adept/Magician, and grapples them. Slowly killing them inside his 4 BC.

Well, Mages/Adepts do not die just by being in a BC... Personally, I like shooting them a lot...

hydraulic arms

basically squeeze them to death

You can do stun damage equal to your Strength with each complex action - you don't need hydraulic arms, just someone reasonably strong.

Still prefer a Gun Myself... Anyone with a BC4 is not someone that I want to be in melee combat with...

So I know it seems silly, but what does a Dermal Sheath look like? Can it/does it pass for normal skin? That's the only reason I balked at it, I thought we were talking about Dermal Plating, which doesn't really work with how I picture this guy in my head. If it can pass as normal skin, then I'm all over it (Augmentation doesn't make it clear).

I had a look at cybertechnology (SR2) for more information on the dermal sheathing - apprently it looks like real skin - mentions of healing and scaring hints that it's actually under the skin. So it looks juste like normal skin when you're not moving. The description mentions it's fairly easy to spot for someone who knows what he's looking for since the reinforced skin doesn't flex like an unagmented one. The resulting bunching and wrkinkling can be noticed but isn't blatant. Of course the less clothes you're wearing, the more it get noticeable. Touch will imediately revel the sheath.

But no numbers were given, so it's up to you and your GM/

In that case, I'll be picking up Dermal Sheathing instead of Orthoskin. Sorry for the delays in getting the list up, real life happened.