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Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Apr 10 2014, 12:35 PM) *
Also Counterstrike is back as a -7 Init Interrupt Action, otherwise looks pretty close to its original form, beat the attackers test with an Unarmed + Reaction test to avoid the attack and immediately do damage back in Bruce Lee fashion. smile.gif


Hmmmmm... Interesting, that. eek.gif
Sengir
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Apr 10 2014, 08:06 PM) *
Wait til Run & Gun 2 comes out, where you can get bonus for doing Combo attacks,

ie You can get a bonus if you do Location: Eye, then Groin to double them over and finish with Haymaker (now blinded and stunned they don't see it coming) to send them sailing.

Don't forget to have a team mate with Leadership yell 'FINISH HIM' for an bonus on the final attack. wink.gif

Also, IPs have to be announced with "Round one, FIGHT!"
X-Kalibur
I'm curious why a claymore has a higher availabilty than a combat modified monofilament chainsaw...
ProfGast
QUOTE (Sengir @ Apr 10 2014, 07:48 AM) *
<Long List Copy Pasted from ToC>

In the interest of keeping things in perspective...

The quoted section is actually 3 parts:
Location Location Location is an optional called shot section with a ruleset for targetting specific bodyparts (you know, gutshots, deafening by hitting ears etc). You take greater or lesser penalty (minimum seems to be -6) to do special efects depending on where you targeted. Each body part also has a Net DV allowed for each shot to limit people from doing 20P to someone's hand.

Ammo Whammy is another optional section for called shots that depend on specific ammunition types (i.e. shooting ingested capsules into someone's mouth)

and finally
More Actions! Gives a list of interrupt or specialized actions (some of which require Martial Arts to use). This section is specifically listed as supplemental as opposed to optional.
For Example, "Pre-emptive Block/Dodge" lets you declare a -5 to your initiative as a free action to add your Gymnastics/Unarmed to your defense pool for the rest of the combat turn.
Xystophoroi
QUOTE (ProfGast @ Apr 10 2014, 07:01 PM) *
For Example, "Pre-emptive Block/Dodge" lets you declare a -5 to your initiative as a free action to add your Gymnastics/Unarmed to your defense pool for the rest of the combat turn.


Isn't that...really good if you've got a half decent Gymnastics/Unarmed score 'cos that's better than adding Willpower usually would be as it's waaay cheaper to raise the skill than the stat.
Jack VII
QUOTE (Xystophoroi @ Apr 10 2014, 02:08 PM) *
Isn't that...really good if you've got a half decent Gymnastics/Unarmed score 'cos that's better than adding Willpower usually would be as it's waaay cheaper to raise the skill than the stat.

I would assume it introduces a limit to the roll though, so it kind of depends on where you stand on that. But yeah, kind of weird though since I think that capability is covered under a new PQ as well...
Ixal
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Apr 10 2014, 06:55 PM) *
I'm curious why a claymore has a higher availabilty than a combat modified monofilament chainsaw...


To quote from the book (it is actually from the normal chainsaw, but still applies)

Truth is, trying to swing a chainsaw as a weapon is fragging ridiculous,
but that doesn’t stop niche market weapons manufacturers from feeding the public hunger.


Those things are not marketed at people who know what they are doing and with more zeal than Claymores. Although at first glance they are not all that bad as melee for low strength characters as they do fixed damage. Personally I am not a fan of them as they are too good. Having an entry of the normal chainsaw in the exotic department would be ok, but not actual combat chainsaws with good stats. In my games only the civilian version will be available.
Also, I only skimmed the book, but at least from the index its a bit too many martial art combos and not enough shooting stuff. Lets see what in depth study brings.

If you have any questions, ask away.
Is it ok if I post the index here?
ProfGast
QUOTE (Xystophoroi @ Apr 10 2014, 09:08 AM) *
Isn't that...really good if you've got a half decent Gymnastics/Unarmed score 'cos that's better than adding Willpower usually would be as it's waaay cheaper to raise the skill than the stat.

It's good. But comes with limitations of A. having a physical limit associated and B. Requiring your pass to go BEFORE you're hit. I'm away from my book so I can't quote specifically but that seemed to be how they balanced those actions.

Also there happen to be a couple of Qualities you can pick up that do something similar: One that lets you Gymnastic for Full Defense (but apply physical limit) one that lets you PERCEPTION full defense (with mental limit) and my personal favorite: Too Pretty To Hit which lets you use Charisma instead of Willpower.
RHat
QUOTE (Xystophoroi @ Apr 10 2014, 01:08 PM) *
Isn't that...really good if you've got a half decent Gymnastics/Unarmed score 'cos that's better than adding Willpower usually would be as it's waaay cheaper to raise the skill than the stat.


Still subject to the normal limitations of those actions. However, the qualities that let you replace Willpower in Full Defense with certain skills or attributes are probably going to see a lot of use.
DMK
"Too Pretty to Hit". BWAH!!!!
psychophipps
It looks so...awesome...so far.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Lobo0705 @ Apr 10 2014, 07:18 PM) *
On the contrary - it means that before, if I have a motion sensor high explosive grenade, and I put it at your feet, you take 16P, 2AP. Now, if you haven't moved, and you have the 5 initiative to spend, a human with an agility of 4 can run 16 meters away from the grenade - and even 9 meters away means that the blast damage is reduced from 16 to 0.

remember, the grenade is on the ground, directly on an indistructable barrier rating.
so the grenade went from 16P all the way UP to 32P instantly because of reflections.
so yeah, no, gratulations, you have, managed to reduce the damage to the point where it would have been had it been set to explode in the air still.
Lobo0705
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 10 2014, 04:41 PM) *
remember, the grenade is on the ground, directly on an indistructable barrier rating.
so the grenade went from 16P all the way UP to 32P instantly because of reflections.
so yeah, no, gratulations, you have, managed to reduce the damage to the point where it would have been had it been set to explode in the air still.


Or I move 16 meters (which is how far I can run) and reduce it to 0...
Blastula
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Apr 10 2014, 09:59 AM) *
He's not kidding either. I only skimmed the book but it doesn't live up, in my mind, to Fields of Fire or Cannon Companion. Arsenal wasn't bad either. I feel like I got fleeced for $25 so far.


You forgot Street Samurai Catalog where every entry had a full page dedicated to it.
RHat
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 10 2014, 02:41 PM) *
remember, the grenade is on the ground, directly on an indistructable barrier rating.
so the grenade went from 16P all the way UP to 32P instantly because of reflections.
so yeah, no, gratulations, you have, managed to reduce the damage to the point where it would have been had it been set to explode in the air still.


Oh, come on, you're not seriously suggesting that's RAI, are you? And even if it does work like that, you're not re-calculating falloff for distance from blast; the order of operations would have to be falloff for distance first, followed by wave reflection, and as such the distance required to make the damage 0 would not be any different.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 10 2014, 03:41 PM) *
remember, the grenade is on the ground, directly on an indistructable barrier rating.
so the grenade went from 16P all the way UP to 32P instantly because of reflections.
so yeah, no, gratulations, you have, managed to reduce the damage to the point where it would have been had it been set to explode in the air still.
But is the ground really indestructible or does it instead take some of the blast and therefore does not rebound off ground? That's why you get that cute little divot in the ground.

Again depends on circumstances and what the surface was at the time.
RHat
QUOTE (DMK @ Apr 10 2014, 01:44 PM) *
"Too Pretty to Hit". BWAH!!!!


This one is probably my favourite - it's jsut funny for some reason.
Jack VII
I am not by the books at the moment, but I assume the "Pre-Emptive" part means you can only perform the action on your turn? It's still not a bad deal for only -5 to initiative for the entire CT, particularly if you have a bangin' physical limit. Adept with Improved Reflexes & Improved Ability: Gymnastics anyone?

ETA: OK, so the pre-emptive stuff still applies only to melee attacks? If that is the case, then I agree that the 3 karma options to swap out Willpower for X skill is a pretty good deal. Hmm... I wonder if the adept power that specifically boosts perception would apply to the swap out. I guess by RAW it doesn't since it isn't really a Perception test, but I would guess Improved Ability would.
Lobo0705
QUOTE (Jack VII @ Apr 10 2014, 05:13 PM) *
I am not by the books at the moment, but I assume the "Pre-Emptive" part means you can only perform the action on your turn? It's still not a bad deal for only -5 to initiative for the entire CT, particularly if you have a bangin' physical limit. Adept with Improved Reflexes & Improved Ability: Gymnastics anyone?

ETA: OK, so the pre-emptive stuff still applies only to melee attacks? If that is the case, then I agree that the 3 karma options to swap out Willpower for X skill is a pretty good deal. Hmm... I wonder if the adept power that specifically boosts perception would apply to the swap out. I guess by RAW it doesn't since it isn't really a Perception test, but I would guess Improved Ability would.



Jack,

Pre-Emptive Dodge can be done to avoid ranged attacks - so, as you say, Adept with Improved Reflexes and Gymnastics...
Jack VII
QUOTE (Lobo0705 @ Apr 10 2014, 03:27 PM) *
Pre-Emptive Dodge can be done to avoid ranged attacks - so, as you say, Adept with Improved Reflexes and Gymnastics...

Wait, is Pre-Emptive Dodge something anyone can do or is it limited in some way (Martial Art or some such)? If it is something anyone can do, it seems like the PQ ones only edge it out due to being interrupt actions since they cost more in initiative reduction and also have a karma cost. It's just a free action, right?
Ixal
Wireless Bonus of the ghillie suit

Wireless Bonus: Um … you draw in curious Hackers?
Xystophoroi
QUOTE (Ixal @ Apr 10 2014, 09:42 PM) *
Wireless Bonus of the ghillie suit

Wireless Bonus: Um … you draw in curious Hackers?


There's not seriously a wirelessbonus on a f'ing camouflage suit is there?

"I'm invisible!"

"Ummm...dude. You're pinging your location to everyone,"

Of course. This edition has wirelessly pinging smuggling compartments so of course the stealth gear beams its location out.
Ixal
QUOTE (Xystophoroi @ Apr 10 2014, 09:51 PM) *
There's not seriously a wirelessbonus on a f'ing camouflage suit is there?


What I wrote is the exact quote from the book.
Decide for yourself if there is an actual bonus behind it.
Jack VII
QUOTE (Xystophoroi @ Apr 10 2014, 03:51 PM) *
There's not seriously a wirelessbonus on a f'ing camouflage suit is there?

"I'm invisible!"

"Ummm...dude. You're pinging your location to everyone,"

Of course. This edition has wirelessly pinging smuggling compartments so of course the stealth gear beams its location out.

Both the chameleon suit and concealable holster in the BBB feature a wireless bonus. I am vaguely surprised it doesn't have a real wireless bonus.
Umidori
QUOTE (Jack VII @ Apr 10 2014, 08:28 AM) *
The Americar costs 16K, each box of damage costs 1600 nuyen.gif to repair (10% of the cost of the vehicle). An AK-97 is, on average, going to do 6 boxes of damage to a Ford Americar on a successful one-net hit.
So a single rifle round pretty much totals a vehicle, instead of creating a single bullet hole (or two, I suppose if it punches through both sides)? That's idiotic.

It's almost as if they came up with this by assuming Vehicles handled damage the way that Barriers do - by taking a fixed amount of unresisted DV based burely on the number of bullets fired.

If you shoot a single round from an AK-97 at a locked security door, you only inflict 1 DV to the door itself because you're using a penetrating weapon - and even that requires your initial attack to defeat the 12 armor of a reinforced security door! In contrast, a big ol' Troll with a Combat Axe does full damage to the door (assuming they beat the armor), because the axe tears apart the door instead of overpenetrating through it.

If you shoot the same single round from an AK-97 at a Ford Americar, it should realistically only inflict 1 DV to the car and overpenetrate through to have a chance to hit anyone inside or behind the vehicle - unless you hit something critical like the engine, I can't see a single bullet doing much damage to the car itself.

But sadly, that's not how Vehicles handle damage, and a single bullet can apparantly rip a car in half these days.

QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Apr 10 2014, 11:55 AM) *
I'm curious why a claymore has a higher availabilty than a combat modified monofilament chainsaw...

I can go to any hardware store in the country and find a half dozen chainsaws. From this point, I just need to find someone to modify it - and a quick search on google will lead you to all sorts of "Zombie Preparedness" companies out there who will gladly take your money to make your chainsaw combat capable.

In contrast, I wouldn't have a clue where to start to find an actual battle-worthy Claymore (id est, not a piece of garbage "Wall Hanger"). I'd have to look for not just an actual, skilled, traditional blacksmith, but one who knows specifically how to make a Highland Claymore as opposed to say... an English broadsword, or a Polish cavalry savre, or a Chinese jian, et cetera.

QUOTE (ProfGast @ Apr 10 2014, 12:21 PM) *
Too Pretty To Hit which lets you use Charisma instead of Willpower.

"PLEASE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON - YOU HAVE TWENTY SECONDS TO COMPLY."
*winning smile, mischievous wink*
"YOU NOW HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO COMPLY. YOU ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE 1-13 SECTION 9."
*suggestive look, playful lip biting*
"YOUR ATTEMPTS AT SEDUCTION ARE MISGUIDED. OUR INTERFACE PORTS ARE INCOMPATIBLE."
*chest fondling, moaning*
"ERROR. AROUSAL LEVELS APPROACHING CRITICAL. LOGIC SUBROUTINES COMPROMISED."
*full on dry humping*
"OH YES. BABY, OH BABY. YOU ARE A DIRTY BOY, MUNGO."

~Umi
Sendaz
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 10 2014, 04:57 PM) *
"PLEASE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON - YOU HAVE TWENTY SECONDS TO COMPLY."
*winning smile, mischievous wink*
"YOU NOW HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO COMPLY. YOU ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE 1-13 SECTION 9."
*suggestive look, playful lip biting*
"YOUR ATTEMPTS AT SEDUCTION ARE MISGUIDED. OUR INTERFACE PORTS ARE INCOMPATIBLE."
*chest fondling, moaning*
"ERROR. AROUSAL LEVELS APPROACHING CRITICAL. LOGIC SUBROUTINES COMPROMISED."
*full on dry humping*
"OH YES. BABY, OH BABY. YOU ARE A DIRTY BOY, MUNGO."

~Umi
*grabs the bottle of brain bleach and monowire scrub pads to try and scour that image out*
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Apr 10 2014, 04:06 PM) *
*grabs the bottle of brain bleach and monowire scrub pads to try and scour that image out*


Too Late... You're never gonna get that out... eek.gif
Ixal
Has anyone found some interesting Metaplot updates?
Sendaz
QUOTE (Ixal @ Apr 10 2014, 04:42 PM) *
Wireless Bonus of the ghillie suit

Wireless Bonus: Um … you draw in curious Hackers?

It's not a bug, it's a feature.


With cyberdecks being the most valuable piece of kit you can nab in a fight, luring in stray deckers could be a good way to raise funds. nyahnyah.gif
Sponge
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Apr 10 2014, 06:58 PM) *
It's not a bug, it's a feature.


With cyberdecks being the most valuable piece of kit you can nab in a fight, luring in stray deckers could be a good way to raise funds. nyahnyah.gif


And you don't actually need to be wearing the wireless ghillie suit in order to use it as bait wink.gif
Smash
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Apr 11 2014, 04:55 AM) *
I'm curious why a claymore has a higher availabilty than a combat modified monofilament chainsaw...


I know right! I got a 3 pack of combat modified monofilament chainsaws at Bunnings yesterday.

the claymores were out of stock frown.gif
CanRay
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 10 2014, 04:57 PM) *
"PLEASE PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON - YOU HAVE TWENTY SECONDS TO COMPLY."
*winning smile, mischievous wink*
"YOU NOW HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO COMPLY. YOU ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF PENAL CODE 1-13 SECTION 9."
*suggestive look, playful lip biting*
"YOUR ATTEMPTS AT SEDUCTION ARE MISGUIDED. OUR INTERFACE PORTS ARE INCOMPATIBLE."
*chest fondling, moaning*
"ERROR. AROUSAL LEVELS APPROACHING CRITICAL. LOGIC SUBROUTINES COMPROMISED."
*full on dry humping*
"OH YES. BABY, OH BABY. YOU ARE A DIRTY BOY, MUNGO."

~Umi
Mungo apparently is a Pornomancer in SR5. Either that, or ED-209 (Or ED-108, which is how we described starting characters to a new player) has a Mungo Fetish.

Rule 34, people!
Umidori
Nah, he just got lucky on an Edged roll while the Pilot program of the drone critically glitched.

The point of the joke, of course, was that I'm hoping this "Too Pretty To Hit" option only works on metahumans and perhaps certain sapient critters, and not on things which don't care, like the dogbrain of a drone.

~Umi
CanRay
QUOTE (Umidori @ Apr 10 2014, 07:20 PM) *
Nah, he just got lucky on an Edged roll while the Pilot program of the drone critically glitched.

The point of the joke, of course, was that I'm hoping this "Too Pretty To Hit" option only works on metahumans and perhaps certain sapient critters, and not on things which don't care, like the dogbrain of a drone.

~Umi
*Wolf Shapechanger Looks Cute At You With Puppy-Dog Eyes*
Smash
This book does seem to be a bit lacking.

I guess I was expecting a whole lot more toys. I hope they aren't just holding onto them for more books (like a special book for B&E activities).

Was really wanting more vehicles and drones.

I've yet to read all the manouvers (which are traditionally game breaking in Shadowrun. Called shots /sheesh!) but hopefully there's some good stuff in there somewhere.
Umidori
QUOTE (CanRay @ Apr 10 2014, 07:51 PM) *
*Wolf Shapechanger Looks Cute At You With Puppy-Dog Eyes*

...are you coming on to me? wink.gif

Because while I may be a green-blooded unfeeling inhuman computer, I didn't mean "dogbrain" literally. biggrin.gif

If you need to yiff it up good, though, go ask Bull how he really got his nickname. If you want I'll even lend you my pneumatic speargun! ork.gif

~Umi
Sponge
QUOTE (Smash @ Apr 10 2014, 10:54 PM) *
I hope they aren't just holding onto them for more books (like a special book for B&E activities).


That wouldn't surprise me - some of the chapters in the core SR5 book feel like they were deliberately left incomplete in order to sell more books later. frown.gif
Jaid
QUOTE (Sponge @ Apr 11 2014, 12:42 AM) *
That wouldn't surprise me - some of the chapters in the core SR5 book feel like they were deliberately left incomplete in order to sell more books later. frown.gif


hmmm... i dunno.

i would have to hope that if CGL were capable of actually planning ahead, some of that would be reflected in their first release actually:

1) being completed on release date
2) actually having errata released in a timely manner rather than months after their customers and freelancers compiled a massive list on their own time and probably free of charge (i know the customers got nothing, and i doubt the freelancers saw so much as a single penny)
3) actually incorporating errata that was pointed out well before the book was even finished based on previews of the book

or, to phrase it another way:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
KarmaInferno
Stick & Shock is back.

And apparently the ammo of choice for lighter weapons once again.

I would have thought they would have learned and made the damage code vary based on the weapon, but it's a flat 8S(e), -5 AP.



-k
binarywraith
Hanlon's Razor is always applicable to CGL.
RHat
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Apr 11 2014, 12:13 AM) *
Stick & Shock is back.

And apparently the ammo of choice for lighter weapons once again.

I would have thought they would have learned and made the damage code vary based on the weapon, but it's a flat 8S(e), -5 AP.



-k


The hell are you on about? SnS rounds are in SR5 core, with their damage being -2S(e), and the weapon's AP is replaced with -5. The SnS in R&G is just the arrow, and the static rating on that kinda makes sense.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (RHat @ Apr 11 2014, 01:32 AM) *
The hell are you on about? SnS rounds are in SR5 core, with their damage being -2S(e), and the weapon's AP is replaced with -5. The SnS in R&G is just the arrow, and the static rating on that kinda makes sense.

Ahah. Thanks for the correction.

Had the same question from the preview, but Custom Fit (Stack) quality means the armor piece can stack with other Custom Fit pieces from the same manufacturer. What, exactly, is the Second Skin armor supposed to stack with? Is there some other Second Skin brand armor I am not seeing?

Also: GUN KATA



-k
adamu
Quick question - is all the stuff from the Gun Heaven supplements in Run & Gun, or is it all different?
hermit
It's all different, though some guns were reintroduced from SR4 Gun Heavens and the Arsenal. Sometimes with name changes (Nissan Optimum II, Ultamax MMG). It's Jason Hardy's patented absentee editor style at work.
ProfGast
QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Apr 10 2014, 04:32 AM) *
I'm really interested to see if there are rules for getting discounts on items or lowering availability.

The Gear Qualities (Counterfeit, Defective, Hot) or Positive Quality: Brand Loyalty?

If they do lower the price, do the rules explicitly work or not work on vehicles?

Okay, so my initial read was a bit off. Again these are NOT grades like Alpha/Beta/Delta/Used, nor the new armor version "lightly worn."
And once again it's true that counterfeit and Defective are ONLY used for making players' lives interesting (you get bonus karma if you end up using something that was defective or counterfeit.)

However, Hot gear is technically a discount as the opening line says "sometimes by as much as fifty percent or more…" It doesn't give a hard adn fast number but it indicates stolen equipment, or stuff used in high profile crimes that the cops are currently looking for. It mentions that hot gear still has most of the identifying markers (RFID, serial no.) but the entry closes with "the gamemaster should only consider giving this quality to an item she fully intends to cause a runner problems during the game."

So TECHNICALLY if you talk to your GM about it you may be able to get discounted gear under the Hot quality, but there's no hard and fast rule for it, and it's supposed to get you into trouble.
Sengir
Five or so German words, all of them misspelled or complete gibberish -- except the one which declares Proteus' new arcobloc a tourist trap. Literally.

And some tidbits on a quarantine in Boston, probably related to SRO...
Stahlseele
So . . get an RFID killer and buy stuff on the cheap and then say neener neener to your GM when he tries to give you shit for buying on the cheap? O.o
shonen_mask
Any new decks, comlinks, guns with decks/comlinks in them?
Jack VII
QUOTE (shonen_mask @ Apr 12 2014, 02:22 PM) *
Any new decks, comlinks, guns with decks/comlinks in them?

You can put a commlink in a gun, but there are no new commlinks. Some of the P-Tac stuff gives Firewall/Data Processing boosts, but they are hundreds of thousands of nuyen and not available at chargen.
shonen_mask
I see... frown.gif

I guess the wait is on till Data Trails come out.....

I'm looking foward to the new martial arts rules though. Tech vs. Mana is the all the rage....



Elf Awakened shall overcome.
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