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Dual-purpose dual-splash grenade loaded with splat glue AND slip spray.

Would that defeat both purposes?

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Probably. I don't know that smoke and splat glue would work too terribly well, either, since the particulates in the smoke might coat the glue making it less effective.

The Colt Manhunter is overrated. The laser sight takes up the barrel mount. No barrel mount available = No silencers. Instead, you should look at the Morrissey Elite & Alta. Both of them feature an underbarrel laser sight(Remember, normally pistols have no underbarrel mount), the elite is cheaper, and their conceal is higher.

The Large netgun is underrated. It's great for quickly immobilizing heavy targets. Their armor and body doesn't help them at all, all they can do is try to dodge at higher TNs and hope you don't get half their quickness in successes. Bonus points if you can convince your GM that a built in smartlink doesn't count as a mounted accessory.

Too bad it uses Shotguns though. Still underrated IMO.

Wait...The Manhunter can't mount a silencer and pistols normally can't mount underbarrel accessories?!...Um, wow. What the hell.

Just...What the hell.

I guess the lack of underbarrel accessories is there because the game designers wanted to stop people from adding bipods, vertical front grips (I always forget the correct name of these) and UB GLs to pistols. I guess they couldn't be bothered to add "Cannot be added to pistols" into the descriptions of those modifications.

Just ignore all of it if you know better. If you don't know anything about modifying weapons, you might as well go with the rules.

I'll go with Aus on this one.

Although I thought an integral laser system didn't negate the barrel option. And yes Virginia, you can go out and buy an underbarrel laser sight and/or high power tac light today -- but the technology gets lost in 56 years.

-Siege

And then there's this. Unlike the rifles with built-in TV sets, this one's not an imagemanip either.

I was going to say something about giving frenchmen german weapons, but decided against it, just because this looks really cool. (13E Regiment de Dragons Parachutistes training in Sweden)

Most underrated weapon in the Shadowrun game:

Your Brain.

I've seen some of the brains of players out there. Trust me, they're not underrated.

As we all know, the absolute minimum modifications you need for any shoulder arm are:
Reflex sight, thermal imaging scope, backup iron sights, visible laser, IR laser, visible light, IR light, sound suppressor, underbarrel GL, bipod, vertical foregrip. Plus low-light & thermographic goggles.

That's IRL. In SR, you've got to add at least the smartlink, rangefinder, guncam, ultrasound sight & goggles and replace the reflex sight with a magnifying scope (because reflex sights do not exist in SR).

Might not be a weapon but I'd say Riot Shields are extremely overlooked. They're bulky and hard to conceal, true, but it's also legal so it's conceal isn't as critical as with weapons. And adding several additional points of armor of both types is a huge help. Finally if you're not a melee expert, it adds 2 to each person's tn in melee combat (we houseruled that when going full-defense the defender has no penalty) and if it does put your armor rating above quickness enough for a penalty, dropping it's a free action after you use it's armor to help you soak, meaning no penalty when you counter-attack if he's got more initiative than you.

I've seen some interesting things done with a blowgun too. Drug delivery, silent as the grave, conceal 7, and it only costs 10 Nuyen (It's needles are really cheap too). If it didn't need it's own cursed skill I'd think it was great, but as is only a few character types can spare the skill to use one like that.

Shields may be legal, but you're going to get questions carrying a riot shield around town.

~J

BTW I mentioned super flash nades earlier but I also used them a couple of sessions ago to take out a low hovering Lone Star chopper that was pesting us. I thrown two of these bad boys on top of the building we were trapped in and blam the pilot and the sniper (who was looking at the blast thru a 3x scope) were blind and stunned. The chopper crashed and blew without a box done to it.

And this is why you leave the autopilot on in combat if you won't need to do much maneuvering.

~J

It's also why SOP is for your choppers to do passes instead of hover. Hovering when there are hostiles on the ground = death. (as you illustrate)

And also if the man in the chopper was a sniper, why the hell didn't he just stay outside the range of all the weapons you were likely to carry while staying well inside the range of his rifle, say 800 meters.

You don't use a sniper to perform close range combat if theres not a reason for it.

Bitbasher, he (my GM) was going off the old Lone Star book for what Lone Star sends for thier threat response. And while sniping from long distance is great I think the rigger wanted to get close and personal with this vehicle mounted vindi as we were in a pretty solid building. and there was heavy smoke in the area.

Woahwoahwoah; he was a Rigger? There's no way you should have been able to take him down like that… what kind of Sensors was he packing?

~J

IIRC the range on the minigun is about as long as the sniper rifle

I just think it was a goofy way to run it, especially if he was a rigger, where he's using sensors nad the smoke wouldn't really do jack to him. This is just a difference in GM style, I would never do that because my enemies with tactical training, always act like they have tactical training.

Also I dont think a superflash would do much to vehicle sensors, but I could be wrong about that.

decent sensors have flare compensation IIRC

Plus that's all just passive sensors. Active sensors wouldn't even lose the -3 TN for LOS.

~J

This was IR smoke, not normal smoke. From what I get sensors are just as useless in IR as normal vision.

Also nothing he could find in the rigger books or main book says sensors protect from flash. In fact I'd think you'd be more vunerable because its like having 360 degree vision without eyelids. but thats just IMHO, not rules. He did give him flare comp but flare comp isn't much vs superflash, let alone two superflash at the same time. The pilot wasn't on auto as he was very slowly circling the building to give the sniper a shot of a doorway or window. At the time of the flash in fact he was banking slightly left going counterclockwise aren't the permeter. Not saying the plan was foolproof but the GM wasn't expecting it . Also think about the nade blast reflecting off the flat rooftop upward almost directly into thier face. Also it was the dead of night and in downtown Dallas, around lots of glass skyscrapers. Not much one can do versus that.

However the got a pilot test and a crash test. Both failed, even with combat pool and using karma pool. The Gm was reaching but the modifiers with the flash made it nasty. He didn't even count the IR smoke modifers.

I thought most vehicle sensors included ultrasound, which shouldn't be affected.

JaronK

I've never read anything about ultrasound being standard. Even if it was standard flashbangs are light + noise. Anyon ehit by one has ringing ears for awhile.

I imagine a pair of superflashes are pretty loud. I'm not even sure a sensitve ultrasound mic could survive that. Maybe but I doubt you'd get much data after a rumble liek that plus the boucing sound waves off the buildings.

Bit I can see your logic but the smoke was on one side of the building and the chopper on the other side. The flash was in-between the two. The smoke covered me throwing it up top at the time of throwing it, but the chopper had move around away from it by the time it went off. The -3 might have helped a little but its still blind fire (+. Only slightly more effective then using smartgun 2.

Also the sensors might give negatives to the test but they don't make you immune. Cameras are just as sensitive as eyes when it comes to light. You can see this a little with the nightvision cameras in iraq filming tanks go off. Theres an slight burned image after the bright tank muzzle flash goes off, or bombs in the distance explode.

Point wasn't to destroy the chopper, it was to take it out with class. If I wanted it destory it I had a Ares Alpha loaded with AR that could have did that.

Say the grenades did affect him. Base handling on a LS Yellowjacket is 4. He could easily make that TN, even with modifiers from the flashes. He'd also be using Karma, 'cause it's be a really good time to do so.

Then he'd light you up like a Christmas tree, because smoke can't stop searching fire.

At the very least, ultrasound proximity detectors are part of Rating 0 sensors. There's no way the pilot should have not known where the building was. Furthermore, a rigger isn't in their body at all; there should be no noise-based stun effect, the rigger shouldn't even notice.

There shouldn't be blindfire modifiers at all; roll Sensor rating against a TN equal to 3 (6 Signature for a non-troll metahuman minus three for LOS) and you've got sensor-enhanced gunnery right there. Manual and passive sensor tests might be shot, but not for long.

~J

I don't have to quote because the rigger's plugged into the vehicle anyway; i.e he IS the vehicle, the sensor array his eyes and ears. Hell, he wouldn't feel worse for wear even if you threw the FB right into the cockpit.

If you say so chief. You play your game however you want, we'll stick to the rules not speculation. Whatever your GM rules I'm happy for ya.

You might want to read the actual description of superflash nades tho considering flare comp bearly helps. These bad boys are seriously not to nice to be hit with.

Anywhom back to the topic. Are there any good choices in the heavy weapons area? Never played many gunnery types.