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Synner
I know at least one person's got it, so I'm opening up this thread for people to post their first impressions and hopefully full reviews. Whether you think its the second coming or that it stinks please let us know - and in the spirit of what's being done in other parts of this board, please, try to make the criticism constructive.
otaku mike
Come on people smile.gif
You can't imagine how much we're all under pressure to know what you think of the book. For most of us, it's the first professional text published, and thus it has a special value in our eyes.
Don't let us on the grill any longer, please, someone has to speak embarrassed.gif rollin.gif
Adam
I can't believe Rob fucked up my name in the credits!

How's that? smile.gif
KosherPickle
QUOTE (Synner)
I know at least one person's got it, so I'm opening up this thread for people to post their first impressions and hopefully full reviews. Whether you think its the second coming or that it stinks please let us know - and in the spirit of what's being done in other parts of this board, please, try to make the criticism constructive.

Apparently, my LGS hasn't gotten it yet, as I have received zero phone calls to tell me to come pick it up. Hopefully, I'll get it soon, and pound you mercilessly with criticism. grinbig.gif
Nath
Hey Synner, with all the teasers you made, it's not like you wouldn't karmically deserve a little bit of play with your nerves nyahnyah.gif
Synner
QUOTE (Adam)
I can't believe Rob fucked up my name in the credits!

I'd say it must have been a fun time at the FanPro Origins stand wink.gif
Nikoli
Still waiting on my order to come in as well.
Pistons
Well, Stiggybaby's now has it. Rejoice! Go buy it! smile.gif
Synner
For the UKers and Europeans out there, Leisure Games will have it in by week's end.
shadd4d
Hmmm. According to a telephone call to F-Shop, they should be getting it around the same time. Anytime this week was what the guy told me. Right now, I wished I'd asked him his name.

Don
FlakJacket
It's horrible. Absolutely, completely awful. I wanted to sue the authors/publisher for wasted time and the urge to kill myself that it induced. Honest. wink.gif
Synner
So you have got it then wink.gif
KosherPickle
QUOTE (Pistons)
Well, Stiggybaby's now has it. Rejoice! Go buy it! smile.gif

No need! My LGS called. I'm leaving in 30 minutes to go buy it.

On a side-note, I just noticed that Fast Forward put hella number of titles on markdown. 'Bout time I got me the Germany Sourcebook.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Synner)
For the UKers and Europeans out there, Leisure Games will have it in by week's end.

The site now says that they're expecting it in some time today (Wednesday).
BIG BAD BEESTE
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
It's horrible. Absolutely, completely awful. I wanted to sue the authors/publisher for wasted time and the urge to kill myself that it induced. Honest. wink.gif

Dear Diary - Hard Day, computer wouldn't save those bloody scans again. Spent way too much time on those boards again. Round The World In 80 Days was a fun film to see. NOTE: Seek out FlakJacket and torture him before utterly destrying the remains. Remember to pick up cash for ForumCon. grinbig.gif rotfl.gif biggrin.gif
FlakJacket
Well my local shop got it in today so I'll post some more thoughts in a bit. smile.gif
Synner
Great, yet another volunteer for a review! Word of caution... don't start with the UK. wink.gif

Mr. Man
In the immortal words of Ice Cube: Today was a good day.

The FLGS got my copy of SoE in and DOOM 3 is Gold.

I'm not much for actually reading RPG manuals (I use them as reference materials) so I don't expect to be posting a review, but I just wanted to say that I got it.

Bull
Quickie Review ala Bull:

Art: Cover art was excellent. Interior art was hit an miss. Some was excellent, some was sub-par, but overall, good.

Subject: I'm torn on the subject matter. There's a LOT of words in the book, and it's obvious that a lot of time went into writing them. Hell, as a freelancer, i know that years have been spent on this project. But... The fact that all the places covered were based in Europe, I found taht I simply didn;t care and wasn't interested.

I tried to force myself to read the book, but every paragraph I was struck by the simple fact that the writers were under serious delusions about their so-called "countries" (As if you can really call those tiny, ancient holes in teh ground a Country). I mean, they all seem to think that not only was their "country" important, but that anyone would want to play in them...

Pshaw, I saw. pshaw. The one country I wanted details on, Lithuania, barely even gets a mention! I expected at least 20 or 30 pages dedicated to it! They seriously dropped the ball there.

All in all, I'm sad to say I can only give the book a paltry 3 stars out of 10. Well.. Actually, I'll give it 5 stars, because Adam's sister Ada is hawt.

Actually... i just realized Bull the Ork Decker didn't get any posting time. Guess that drops it down to a 3 again... 1 point for art, 2 poinst for Ada. Ahh well.

<grin>

Bull -- Who actually likes it a lot. It'll make a good "thump" when I beat my players.
booklord
Got it yesterday.....

Skimmed through it but I'll probably do the heavy reading tonight.

I'm kind of dissappointed that Greece didn't get a chapter. It seems more interesting than some of those that did. Surrounded by unstable Balkan states. New corporate initiative causing economic transformation. More metavariants than you can shake a weapon foci at.

I read Poland which was interesting but I'm surprised that Lofwyr could be caught off guard that easily. To top it off Spinrad is still alive! I didn't realize that Lofwyr was having such problems.

I had no idea about Switzerland. I think the troll goat shaman former Swiss politician face character may have some canon problems. (kidding!) France is only half as oppressive as I thought it was. Schwartzkopf is interesting but you don't learn much about what the other dragons are up to. ( Or the info is there but requires a closer read )


My initial review is 7 out of 10. There is lots of good info but I found Shadows of North America to be somewhat better written. ( It may be that things are simply more cramped in this book ) But perhaps the biggest hurdle for me is that my Shadowrunner group just doesn't run in Europe. ( one character is from Europe but she's kind of not welcome back. A moon maiden shaman rock musician from Westphalia. What could they possibly have against her? )
lorg
So alot of countries didn't get included, that is what Shadows of Europe 2 is going to be for smile.gif

So buy this, buy extra copies, wait two years or so and we'll get there.
Ancient History
QUOTE (booklord)
To top it off Spinrad is still alive!

QUOTE

one character is from Europe but she's kind of not welcome back. A moon maiden shaman rock musician from Westphalia. What could they possibly have against her?


Hahahahahahahahahaha!

<snicker>
Basileus
I am only about halfway through it currently, but so far I have found it interesting and well done. My only complaint is that I would have liked to see the corporate stats for the European AA's in the format we saw for the AAA's in Corporate Download and saw for Transys Neuronet in Dragons of the Sixth World. Other than that minor gripe, I am thoroughly enjoying the book. Good work and keep'em coming!
Pistons
QUOTE (Basileus)
I am only about halfway through it currently, but so far I have found it interesting and well done. My only complaint is that I would have liked to see the corporate stats for the European AA's in the format we saw for the AAA's in Corporate Download and saw for Transys Neuronet in Dragons of the Sixth World. Other than that minor gripe, I am thoroughly enjoying the book. Good work and keep'em coming!

Actually, I have something just like that in my hands. It was from back when we were to have our own section in Games Unplugged, but it didn't pan out in the end. If there's enough interest, I'll send it for inclusion on the website.
KosherPickle
QUOTE (Basileus)
I am only about halfway through it currently, but so far I have found it interesting and well done.  My only complaint is that I would have liked to see the corporate stats for the European AA's in the format we saw for the AAA's in Corporate Download and saw for Transys Neuronet in Dragons of the Sixth World.  Other than that minor gripe, I am thoroughly enjoying the book.  Good work and keep'em coming!

You beat me to it. That's my one major complaint thus far. It's a little slow reading right now, but history always is. I expect the pace to pick up a little once I hit the country-specific chapters. I also plan on doing a review, but it'll be broken up into sections. One overarching review won't work for a book of this length.
Basileus
QUOTE (Pistons)
Actually, I have something just like that in my hands. It was from back when we were to have our own section in Games Unplugged, but it didn't pan out in the end. If there's enough interest, I'll send it for inclusion on the website.

Please, please, please, please, PLEASE post those stats! Thanks!
Synner
Regarding the intro section, it should be said that there was a lot of gound to cover and not that much space to do it. It's easy to forget that North American has had a lot of its gaps filled in by a number of books while for most 2nd and 3rd Edition players European history was virgin territory.

We tried to make the NEEC more complex but at the same time put a face on some of the shadowbiz behind it. This isn't all high-politics, there's a lot going on behind the scenes and agendas with human faces and goals in play.

Besides the obvious contrast between the major players and their methods as regards North Am. The nature of the crime scene is slightly different and the Underworld/Crime section also boasts a few hidden surprises. If they slipped by you, you're certain to catch them in the Game Info.
Zen Shooter01
I was hoping for more information on the priestly orders inside the Vatican.
I was also hoping that it would break with the long tradition Shadowrun of not putting scale indicators on the maps.

Otherwise, very solid, worthy of its predecessor, SoNA. The place books suffer a little for not being as sexy as things like M&M and CC, but that's not their fault. The price was a bit of a shock, but the size justifies it. Certainly capable of providing years of adventure for any GM. I'm an American, and I imagine the fans in Europe will find it particularly close to their hearts.

I'm very intrigued by the Islamic material that keeps popping up in corners of the new SR books -- Aden in DotSW, what's-his-name who rose from the dead in YotC, and now the New Jihad material in SOE. Here's my vote for a Shadows of the Arab World sourcebook.

Oh, and it would have been nice if it could have only been six months late.
Sepherim
[Edit] Repeated post.
Sepherim
An Arab world-like book is coming some day: Target: Middle East (IIRC) is it's name. Though it won't appear 'til next year probably.

No comments on Spain? Come on' guys, I'm gonna run out of nails! biggrin.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Sepherim)
An Arab world-like book is coming some day: Target: Middle East (IIRC) is it's name.

How appropriate.
Paul
Its on my to do list. As soon as I go to the book store tommorrow with my gun and kill everyone I see, then I will find a real book store that doesn't suck *&^%$#@! and get the books I need to complete my collection.
Synner
QUOTE (Zen Shooter01 @ Jul 16 2004, 02:26 AM)
I was hoping for more information on the priestly orders inside the Vatican.

There was a lot more on the various Rules/Orders, Holy Offices and the Hierarchies that didn't make the cut, mostly because it was only incidently relevant. Religion in general, and the Vatican and RCC in particular, has been a passion of mine for a while and it was a huge challenge weaving the canon references into a consistent whole.

I wanted to balance out the Church, give it a human face and focus on its good works as well as the bad - the picture so far had been slightly lopsided IMHO. And I'm particularly happy with the way Pope John XXV came out.

While some elements in the RCC will be reappearing in upcoming books, the various Rules/Orders probably won't.

If there's enough demand and people interested, I'll see what I can do about cleaning up my pre-draft notes and uploading some of the intros I had for the major Mendicant and Monastic orders.

Note however that with the exception of the New Jesuits and the Sylvestrines, most of the others (including the Franciscans, Dominicans, (old) Jesuits, Carmelites, etc) are developed from the current day versions on which you can find a wealth of information on the internet.

QUOTE
Certainly capable of providing years of adventure for any GM. I'm an American, and I imagine the fans in Europe will find it particularly close to their hearts.

We tried to gear a lot of the stuff with the American audience in mind, rather than just the Europeans so that the book is useful to both locals and Pond-hoppers.

QUOTE
I'm very intrigued by the Islamic material that keeps popping up in corners of the new SR books

Regarding the Islamic material, we could never really overlook it in SoE since there are 15 million Muslims in Europe. We tried to show all sides too. The NIJ and Jihad X make comebacks but you also get the Islamic Renaissance. I too like the fact that this stuff is creeping in, it is one of the aspects of global(ized) culture that was missing from a lot of 1st generation SR material... and rest assured there's more surprises down the line.
shadd4d
Just got it, dank F-Shop. I would say that the book looks real reference heavy.

pg. 71 Reality Czech is a Shadowland Sysop

So far: Wow!

Don
Dutch-DK
QUOTE (Bull)
Quickie Review ala Bull:
Subject:  I'm torn on the subject matter.  There's a LOT of words in the book, and it's obvious that a lot of time went into writing them.  Hell, as a freelancer, i know that years have been spent on this project.  But...  The fact that all the places covered were based in Europe, I found taht I simply didn;t care and wasn't interested. 

I tried to force myself to read the book, but every paragraph I was struck by the simple fact that the writers were under serious delusions about their so-called "countries" (As if you can really call those tiny, ancient holes in teh ground a Country).  I mean, they all seem to think that not only was their "country" important, but that anyone would want to play in them...

Pshaw, I saw.  pshaw.  The one country I wanted details on, Lithuania, barely even gets a mention!  I expected at least 20 or 30 pages dedicated to it!  They seriously dropped the ball there.

Bull -- Who actually likes it a lot.  It'll make a good "thump" when I beat my players.

This is the same complaint I can put against any book in SR concerning the American continent. So no surprise you feel the same way. It is not that I have not been in the US, but Americans are just as proud about America as Europeans are about Europe.
So that said we should agree to disagree.

Yes it is unfortunate that the Baltics are not included. Had we gotten the space for it Adhoc could have added more. At least in his games there is some and it could have been build into more.
Adhoc
I have lots more material on Denmark and are thinking about making a website for it.

There has been talks about a SoE-website with a lot of the redundant material, but there's a lot of legal issues involved + it takes a lot of work if it's to be done right.

An "unofficial" fan-website would be a lot easier to maintain and would be a "deniable" asset for FanPro/WizKids.

But if you have questions about Denmark, feel free to ask.

wavey.gif
Adhoc
shadd4d
I like the website idea, although I wonder why Fanpro US wouldn't host it like some of the cut material from Target: Matrix. I can see 1 really good reason to have a website: The maps from all the books. Cities that were put in the books, like Dublin, Belfast, Berlin, Rhin-Ruhr, London, Vienna, Zürich, etc. That would be useful. Plus maybe some of the lingo for the countries would also be nice.

Edit: For those looking at page 55 and wondering about Karlsruhe, check out this link. It shows how the city looks to give you an idea what the text means.

Don
Adam
There are certainly plans to add more SOE content to ShadowrunRPG.com.
Pistons
QUOTE (Dutch-DK)
This is the same complaint I can put against any book in SR concerning the American continent. So no surprise you feel the same way. It is not that I have not been in the US, but Americans are just as proud about America as Europeans are about Europe.
So that said we should agree to disagree.

Yes it is unfortunate that the Baltics are not included. Had we gotten the space for it Adhoc could have added more. At least in his games there is some and it could have been build into more.

Psst -- Bull's "review" was a joke on his part. Disregard everything but the last line. wink.gif
Ecclesiastes
QUOTE (Synner)
If there's enough demand and people interested, I'll see what I can do about cleaning up my pre-draft notes and uploading some of the intros I had for the major Mendicant and Monastic orders.

That would be so awesome. I was really hoping to see a lot more on the church.
Synner
QUOTE (shadd4d @ Jul 16 2004, 12:27 PM)
I like the website idea, although I wonder why Fanpro US wouldn't host it like some of the cut material from Target: Matrix.

As Adam has mentioned there will be quite a bit more SoE content going up on the official website.

Regarding Adhoc's website comment, there isn't really many "legal issues" as such. However my basic concept for "The Helix" precludes it being official, because the ideal site would to be open-ended and evolving. It will be built in a branching structure from the general country information to the details such as city/location descriptions, shadow contacts, a shadow op market, etc... which would allow us to accept new content of all sorts from fans (edited for compatibility by myself and the other sysops) to plug into our basic framework(sort of like the EuroSB project to the Nth degree).

I'm actually looking into getting the talent together to get it done right (Yep, Deev that means I'll be back to bugging you as soon as I wrap up the latest assignments) since this kind of project involves more than just a basic HTML website.

QUOTE (Ecclesiastes)
That would be so awesome. I was really hoping to see a lot more on the church.

SoE provides a pretty good lay man's look at the Church, its institutions, its factions and its powerplayers including the religious Orders/Rules (old and new) and their alleigance. It also introduces the Schism which explains some of the apparently contradicting past information regarding the Church's attitude on magic and its ramifications. Going into anymore depth in SoE would have been redundant for most readers and probably require a lot more material than there was space for.

I have about 20 pages of material on the RCC partially drafted but I'll make no promises as to when I'll get round to cleaning it up. Meanwhile there will be more on one of the surprises in the Vatican section in an upcoming sourcebook.
Azryl
I just got my copy. Yippee!!!!! <dances the dance of joy> Time to hide from the world and read. I'll write a review tonight.
DV8
Oh, Synner. I love it when you bug me. smile.gif
Larsine
QUOTE (Adhoc)
I have lots more material on Denmark and are thinking about making a website for it.


Unless FanPro want's it, I would think that it would be a brilliant idea.

QUOTE (Adhoc)

There has been talks about a SoE-website with a lot of the redundant material, but there's a lot of legal issues involved + it takes a lot of work if it's to be done right.

An "unofficial" fan-website would be a lot easier to maintain and would be a "deniable" asset for FanPro/WizKids.

But if you have questions about Denmark, feel free to ask.

wavey.gif
Adhoc

Boy have I got questions!?! question.gif

But I might just wait until I have read.gif SoE, and then ask you questions.

For now I would just like to know if there is any new material on Norse religion/magic?

Lars

Synner
Yes, there is material on the Asartu religion and the Aesir cults as well as some references to Norse magicians. The latter material will likely be further developed in upcoming sourcebooks too (hint, hint)
Paul
QUOTE (Pistons)
Psst -- Bull's "review" was a joke on his part. Disregard everything but the last line. wink.gif

Hell I kind of know Bull and it took me a minute to realize he was joking.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Pistons)
Well, Stiggybaby's now has it. Rejoice! Go buy it! smile.gif

Yeah. I was watching stiggy like a, well, fox. and as soon as it was there I ordered it. it should be here anyday, hopefully by monday.
Bull
QUOTE (Paul)
QUOTE (Pistons)
Psst -- Bull's "review" was a joke on his part. Disregard everything but the last line. wink.gif

Hell I kind of know Bull and it took me a minute to realize he was joking.

Heh. smile.gif

yeah, I was being facetious to bust Synner's chops a bit, since I know how eager he is to see the book come out and how much he's hoping it gets smashing reviews wink.gif

Yes, I'm evil, I know... ork.gif

Bull
Dax
I found the chapter on Switzerland one of the more interesting ones. I think this is one of the first times that I can remember of a chunk of a major Shadowrun book written by an openly racist character.

I'm suprised Japan is taking this lying down. They're being out racistized! They will strike back! .........Ehh, maybe not. biggrin.gif
Synner
A Brownie point to whoever knows where Kephalos originally showed up in SR canon. wink.gif
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