Full Version: So what next... in SR
wasn't there an astral book that was in the works a year or so ago (maybe more)? i believe the working title was "The Boo-Scary Book of Shadowrun Night". it was supposed to make the astral a more interesting (in the chinese sense) place, and provide material for a more horror-oriented (in the not-ED sense) SR game.
It was in the works in concept only; it didn't even reach the proposal stage.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| wasn't there an astral book that was in the works a year or so ago (maybe more)? i believe the working title was "The Boo-Scary Book of Shadowrun Night". |
Yeah, that was back in the FASA days. Would have been interesting to see.
Shadowrun/Earthdawn crossovers should, IMO, be like sex in Victorian times: always there, and sometimes rather extensive, but never talked about in public.
~J
~J
A problem I have noticed that causes a lot of confusion is a lot of you don't own all of the books, or don't read them all. I own very nearly everything ever published for SR. From the moment go we loved this game. SOme books have disappeared over the years-adventures mostly-but we still have I think 8copies of the Street Samurai's catalouge.
I only know a handful of people who bought CorpSec, what I consider perhaps one of the most ground breaking essential books of all of SR history. I have played with literally a hundred or more people in my area-I know a lot of GM's and players. So few actually own and read any of the books beyond SR3 BBB, CC, and MiTS, and other "core" rule books. Its easy to think the game needs more depth, when you have no idea how far the game actually goes. (This is not meant as a specific accusation aimed at anyone.)
I'm not saying it validates anything I say in any way or somehow adds value to it in a significant way. I do have to wonder though sometimes. I mean a lot of people can't even devote enough time to read the whole thread. (People have lives, its not meant to be accusatory.)
I don't know. I do know there were some excellent suggestions in here, and I hope at least one of them sees fruition.
I only know a handful of people who bought CorpSec, what I consider perhaps one of the most ground breaking essential books of all of SR history. I have played with literally a hundred or more people in my area-I know a lot of GM's and players. So few actually own and read any of the books beyond SR3 BBB, CC, and MiTS, and other "core" rule books. Its easy to think the game needs more depth, when you have no idea how far the game actually goes. (This is not meant as a specific accusation aimed at anyone.)
I'm not saying it validates anything I say in any way or somehow adds value to it in a significant way. I do have to wonder though sometimes. I mean a lot of people can't even devote enough time to read the whole thread. (People have lives, its not meant to be accusatory.)
I don't know. I do know there were some excellent suggestions in here, and I hope at least one of them sees fruition.
on the spirits and dragons: granted, at least the spirits where usefull (though I would think they'd be better off in the magic section). The Dragons however I never found a use for. IMHO Dragons are just a few sizes too big for the average runner team. Instead I would have liked some critters that they actually had a chance to meet.
4th Edition: sad but true, you guys a re probably right. 4th Edition won't be around any time soon and if it is it probably won't be what I anticipated. But the original post did ask what we wanted
I think some people already recognized the problem with this thread quite well: we do not represent the majority of buyers. First of all we're only a small fraction of the buyers and then most of us are pretty experienced players who probably have a different idea of Shadowrun than most people (I know my idea of Shadowrun varies quite a bit from what most - not all - people want out of an RPG)
4th Edition: sad but true, you guys a re probably right. 4th Edition won't be around any time soon and if it is it probably won't be what I anticipated. But the original post did ask what we wanted
I think some people already recognized the problem with this thread quite well: we do not represent the majority of buyers. First of all we're only a small fraction of the buyers and then most of us are pretty experienced players who probably have a different idea of Shadowrun than most people (I know my idea of Shadowrun varies quite a bit from what most - not all - people want out of an RPG)
Actually, I own (and have read several times) just about everything for second edition. I stopped buying third edition about when Brainscan hit the shelves. A game system tends to live or die by it's appeal. A large part of shadowrun's appeal is the rich variety of the culture and background. At least until recently, anyways....
Shadowrun is as good as ever and the Shadows of... books are great. Rules and stats have no place in books like that i think. The new source books for Shadowrun has been good all around. DotSW, SSG, Shadows of this and that, all are more adult and well... smart than your average rpg books. I dont think the quality was this constantly high in earlier editions.
When it comes to illustrations Im going to follow the advice of Synner and be constructive intstead of complaining. The colour paintings of arcetypes in the core book are amazing. Some of the covers are real good (like SoNA), but why are trolls on nearly every cover? Now when it comes to black and white illustrations in the books my wish is FanPro PLEASE find another Janet Aulisio and Tim Bradstreet.
So adventures sell bad. That sucks. I GM prewritten scenarios only. I buy all advenures for Shadowrun I can find. So one of my biggest requests is a new grand, wellwritten, odd, surprising, fun and suspence filled campain like Harlequin.
Yepp. My wish is that you continue like you have with covering the game world and all its aspects in good source books. And then explore it in prewritten scenarios and campains that take out the turns and expects you to own all the books.
When it comes to illustrations Im going to follow the advice of Synner and be constructive intstead of complaining. The colour paintings of arcetypes in the core book are amazing. Some of the covers are real good (like SoNA), but why are trolls on nearly every cover? Now when it comes to black and white illustrations in the books my wish is FanPro PLEASE find another Janet Aulisio and Tim Bradstreet.
So adventures sell bad. That sucks. I GM prewritten scenarios only. I buy all advenures for Shadowrun I can find. So one of my biggest requests is a new grand, wellwritten, odd, surprising, fun and suspence filled campain like Harlequin.
Yepp. My wish is that you continue like you have with covering the game world and all its aspects in good source books. And then explore it in prewritten scenarios and campains that take out the turns and expects you to own all the books.
Hunter I say check out the Sprawl Survival Guide if you haven't already. It might be just what you're looking for.
The art. Of course I have artists that I like and that I don't like, so I'm not gonna go there.
However... something bugs me about many of the trolls. The average troll is supposed to be 2.8m. Yet in many (actually, I think it's most) pictures with trolls in them, they are a head or two taller than a human. It just doesn't work. Either get the artists to draw them to good scale, or say that trolls are shorter.
I just flipped through SoNA and SotA63 and found several, but I'm just gonna use the most blatant one as an example. On page 59 in SoNA you have a troll, and ork and a dwarf standing right next to each other. If we say that the dwarf if very short (about one meter) then the troll clocks in under two meters (about 1.75m and the ork around 1.5m). If we instead use a tall dwarf (1.4m), then the troll would be about 2.5 meters and the ork at about 2.1m.
Lets say that we use the average height for the dwarf. The dwarf is 1.2m, the ork is 1.8m and the troll 2.4m. It just doesn't add up.
I can understand that one artist might want to have a picture with one tall dwarf, one tall ork and one short troll. I have no problem with that. The only thing is that it happens all the time. And it's not something new either. It's been going on since the second (or maybe even first) edition. In my game I've gone so far as to rule that trolls on average are 2.4meters, just so that the pictures won't spoil the feeling.
However... something bugs me about many of the trolls. The average troll is supposed to be 2.8m. Yet in many (actually, I think it's most) pictures with trolls in them, they are a head or two taller than a human. It just doesn't work. Either get the artists to draw them to good scale, or say that trolls are shorter.
I just flipped through SoNA and SotA63 and found several, but I'm just gonna use the most blatant one as an example. On page 59 in SoNA you have a troll, and ork and a dwarf standing right next to each other. If we say that the dwarf if very short (about one meter) then the troll clocks in under two meters (about 1.75m and the ork around 1.5m). If we instead use a tall dwarf (1.4m), then the troll would be about 2.5 meters and the ork at about 2.1m.
Lets say that we use the average height for the dwarf. The dwarf is 1.2m, the ork is 1.8m and the troll 2.4m. It just doesn't add up.
I can understand that one artist might want to have a picture with one tall dwarf, one tall ork and one short troll. I have no problem with that. The only thing is that it happens all the time. And it's not something new either. It's been going on since the second (or maybe even first) edition. In my game I've gone so far as to rule that trolls on average are 2.4meters, just so that the pictures won't spoil the feeling.
| QUOTE |
| Originally posted by Synner: * Adventures are selling worse than ever on the RPG market, campaigns sell marginally better but still far behind normal source- and rule-books. |
The real problem with Adventures (modules, missions, what have you) is that they're just not interesting enough to sell. Too many times a gamemaster will pick up an adventure, flip through it in the store, and shrug and say, 'I can't use this in my game.' But adventures that tie into campaigns are another story entirely. If you create a campaign world which is provocative and well-designed, people will like it -- and then if you support that campaign world with adventures which not only allow people to interact with that world but also change that world with their actions, now that's something different, it gives the players and GMs a sense of intimacy with the game that nothing ever could before.
Shadowrun Missions, anyone?
It isn't just Missions that does this, though. Arcanis showed us the way, really; Paradigm Concepts went and created a wonderful, living, provocative campign based on the D20 OGL rules, supported it with adventures set specifically within that campaign world, and then gave the players a way to affect that world through the Living Arcanis campaign.
If adventures are written to tie into a larger product, then they do sell. Or at least they act as a hook to sell the larger product. You may have to give the first few adventures away, but if the writing is good, the product will sell.
| QUOTE |
| * Single location books in any genre, except possibly Superheroes, are selling badly. |
Because enough detail is never given in any books. Personally, I'm apalled that you folks took Nigel Findley's excellent boxed set for Denver and turned it into a single chapter within another book; if New Seattle sold well (and it did -- it's run out of print at least once), why wasn't Denver given its own book as well? It's not like people can go out and get the boxed set anymore. Detail is the key. Players want to know everything they can about a city; theoretically it should be written by folks who have lived there for several years. (I'm frustrated that Omaha, a key city in the trade route across North America, has been relegated to a single mention in Target: Smuggler's Havens only because people seem to think that a very old and outdated air force base would still be in operation in fifty years. Omaha is a center of data processing; it has been since the 1960's, and it's far more likely that a Data Haven would be built here than in Denver. Not to mention a rail and trucking center and, at the time of the Treaty of Denver, a major air hub in the northwest of the UCAS, closest to Seattle and to the Front Range Free Zone...)
Single location books can sell, if enough detail is given in them to sell them. Please, don't give us teasers to what might happen in the future; give us solid, concrete plans on which to base plots. Give us contact names and personalities -- and agendas! Give us the ruling elite. Give us the society mavens. Give us major and minor figures in the underworld. Give us locations of bus stations, restaurants, nightclubs, city halls, courthouses, police stations and everything else you can think of! If you give us enough detail, we'll love you for it.
I'm reminded of the guy that posted a list of over 100 cities that he thought should get sourcebooks of their own, taking up 20 years of FanPro's Shadowrun production schedule. . . 
| QUOTE (Deacon @ Jul 31 2004, 08:53 PM) | ||
The real problem with Adventures (modules, missions, what have you) is that they're just not interesting enough to sell. |
Thanks for your comments, however you misunderstood parts of my post. I was commenting on industry situations, not specifically just SR-related. Regardless, despite what you may think the true problem is that adventures/campaigns, unlike regular sourcebooks, sell almost exclusively to gamemasters (plus a few completists) which are a fraction of every game's fanbase which in turn has diminished significantly. This compounded by the fact that many GMs simply don't use published adventures at all. Don't believe me? Feel free to poll the dedicated hard-core gamers who take the time to visit Dumpshock (or similar forums) and see how many actually buy the adventures as compared to the average sourcebook (I'll wager right here and now that its less than 50%).
Furthermore in SR's case specifically, even material like Blood in the Boardroom or Mob War which tied in directly to major developments in the setting and complemented several storylines with a wealth of details, still sold less than your average sourcebook. Note - this doesn't mean FanPro ceased doing adventures, it's just doing less of them (there's been an average 1 campaign/adventure set a year under FanPro which in hindsight is only slightly less than the average during FASA's heyday).
| QUOTE |
| Because enough detail is never given in any books. |
I suggest you reread my post. What I said was actually "Single location books in any genre [...] are selling badly." I say nothing about multi-location books. In fact, comparatively, multi-location books sell relatively well in today's market (be it a Shadows of... book or a new D20 campaign setting). For SR particularly (according to my admittedly limited and unofficial sources at several gamestores and one major distributor) books like London, Germany and NAGNA sold slower and less (substantiated by the fact that except for the former, the latter two can still be found in many old RPG shelves) than most of the Targets and Shadows of... - though all recognize the market was significantly different back then.
| QUOTE |
| Single location books can sell |
Personally, I'm of the opinion that some actually might... Denver and LA come to mind, possibly Chicago. But they'd still be the exception, one that would be picked up by people running games in those cities, those that would get them for the megaplot tie-ins and completists which would get them on principle. However, I understand that commercially speaking they're a hit or miss proposition. You could get away with Seattle because it is the default setting, but too many factors go into figuring if any other city might or might not sell for a book to make it a safe bet. Something like Target: Smuggler Havens is the middle ground covering several distinct locations in enough detail that if one misses the others might still be a hit.
And just for reference the decision to make Denver a chapter in SoNA was made not by "you people", but rather by the FASA crew that began development on the book before the company shut down, some of which worked with Nigel Findley and are no longer associated directly with the game.
So without further ado, here is my list of preferences for SR:
Target: Astral Space sounds like a swell idea. I would however prefer if it didn't introduce any new magical paths, traditions, spells or matamagic. Keep those in the SOTA books, and give us just a few new ones every year. That way you will truely feel that the SOTA books are about SOTA.
Critters: Can't wait for Running Wild, it's about time we get some decent books about critters (it's been to long since PNAONA/PNAOE).
Adventures: Not if it's anything like DNA/DOA, Divided Assets, First Run or any of the other run-of-the-mill adventures. I'll just make those up myself. I want adventures like Harlequin, all the Bug-adventures (UB and others), and the Archology. I want adventures that builds on something big in the SR-world. I like that way Bug was introduced in Queen Euphoria, expanden in UB, escalated in Double Exposure, and then all hell breaks loose in Bug City (even though it's noot an adventure). In other words I want adventures if they tie in with a major plot in the SR world, not if they could be made by anybody. And when they pretend to do something, then please follow up, I just hated when we never saw any more about the Botteled Demon, even though it was meant to do more.
4th edition: No thanks. And since the 2nd Ed. Companion wasn't built into the 3rd Edition SR, what makes anybody think the 3rd Ed. Companion would be built into the 4th Ed. SR?
Shadows of X: Well why not, but it's not first on my list. I would rather have a "Shadows of The World", with a rough outline of everything, including an world map. But on the other hand, we'll just risk things like Iceland belonging to the TPA...
Tech: No new tech. But I would like a list of new tech names. Just like in the R3 book with the alternative names for similar vehicles, I would love a list of names/brands for decks, guns, armour, drekcetera... Sure it's fun to invent a Skoda CompaCar or Toyota X17 or Odet CyberDyne T14, but I would still like som official examples. Renraku must make more than one model of Cyberdecks after all.
Story Archs: It would be OK either advancing some of the old/current story lines, or closing them down. What's the situation with the bugs? How is old Dunky's will doing? What's the situation in the Archology? What's happening in the Yucatan?
Novels: I know it's up to WizKids, but please make them publish more books. They (most of them) are great for background information, and it's easy to expand the story archs, and give extra information in ways you can't in RPG books. I have alwasy found the novels and the RPG to supplement each other.
Apart from that, I thing SR is doing just fine with the last few releases.
Lars
Target: Astral Space sounds like a swell idea. I would however prefer if it didn't introduce any new magical paths, traditions, spells or matamagic. Keep those in the SOTA books, and give us just a few new ones every year. That way you will truely feel that the SOTA books are about SOTA.
Critters: Can't wait for Running Wild, it's about time we get some decent books about critters (it's been to long since PNAONA/PNAOE).
Adventures: Not if it's anything like DNA/DOA, Divided Assets, First Run or any of the other run-of-the-mill adventures. I'll just make those up myself. I want adventures like Harlequin, all the Bug-adventures (UB and others), and the Archology. I want adventures that builds on something big in the SR-world. I like that way Bug was introduced in Queen Euphoria, expanden in UB, escalated in Double Exposure, and then all hell breaks loose in Bug City (even though it's noot an adventure). In other words I want adventures if they tie in with a major plot in the SR world, not if they could be made by anybody. And when they pretend to do something, then please follow up, I just hated when we never saw any more about the Botteled Demon, even though it was meant to do more.
4th edition: No thanks. And since the 2nd Ed. Companion wasn't built into the 3rd Edition SR, what makes anybody think the 3rd Ed. Companion would be built into the 4th Ed. SR?
Shadows of X: Well why not, but it's not first on my list. I would rather have a "Shadows of The World", with a rough outline of everything, including an world map. But on the other hand, we'll just risk things like Iceland belonging to the TPA...
Tech: No new tech. But I would like a list of new tech names. Just like in the R3 book with the alternative names for similar vehicles, I would love a list of names/brands for decks, guns, armour, drekcetera... Sure it's fun to invent a Skoda CompaCar or Toyota X17 or Odet CyberDyne T14, but I would still like som official examples. Renraku must make more than one model of Cyberdecks after all.
Story Archs: It would be OK either advancing some of the old/current story lines, or closing them down. What's the situation with the bugs? How is old Dunky's will doing? What's the situation in the Archology? What's happening in the Yucatan?
Novels: I know it's up to WizKids, but please make them publish more books. They (most of them) are great for background information, and it's easy to expand the story archs, and give extra information in ways you can't in RPG books. I have alwasy found the novels and the RPG to supplement each other.
Apart from that, I thing SR is doing just fine with the last few releases.
Lars
Oh man, a book on LA would be awesome.
In that vein, perhaps a book on Free Cities would be good... not just LA and Seattle, but Manhattan, Berlin, Hong Kong and all the other city-states who have declared their independence from their governing bodies.
ESPECIALLY Hong Kong! I realize it's probably going to be a big part of Shadows of Asia, but a city like that is unique... I could easily see Hong Kong being an even bigger city than Seattle for shadowrunners. The FRFZ (Denver) is still probably king of the political plot, Seattle is master of the corporate plot, so Hong Kong would be the place for the magical plots...
ESPECIALLY Hong Kong! I realize it's probably going to be a big part of Shadows of Asia, but a city like that is unique... I could easily see Hong Kong being an even bigger city than Seattle for shadowrunners. The FRFZ (Denver) is still probably king of the political plot, Seattle is master of the corporate plot, so Hong Kong would be the place for the magical plots...
| QUOTE (Paul) |
| A problem I have noticed that causes a lot of confusion is a lot of you don't own all of the books, or don't read them all. I own very nearly everything ever published for SR. From the moment go we loved this game. |
I'm also an SR completionist, lacking only the original GM screen with attendant adventure (Silver Angel, IIRC). I didn't buy the limited edition core SR3, but then I don't do GC.
Funniest part of it, is I was against the purchase of the original SR1 core, because we had so many games already we planned to play. But a player bought it, couldn't understand it, and wanted me to read it to explain to him!
We got hooked with Food Fight and only lately did I begin waiting to purchase a new book (I'll wait until I need something else from Stiggy before ordering it.) Only with SoE has it come to me examining whether I really should buy them at all anymore.
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| I'm reminded of the guy that posted a list of over 100 cities that he thought should get sourcebooks of their own, taking up 20 years of FanPro's Shadowrun production schedule. . . |
How about:
Shadowrun: Urban Renewal
Guide to Cities, this book includes rules and information to help a GM flesh out any locale, including determining the effectiveness of corporatations and law enforcement to meet his needs. Also featured are gang creation rules, and sample layouts for common buildings essential to SR.
Extensive information is also provided for several important cities of the Sixth World, including Denver, Hong Kong, London and some other city people like.
Three new varieties of Devil rats included at no extra charge!
Now that i am finally through p.1-9 (and having found nearly anything that came to my mind already mentioned, i.e. deeper into magic, back to the street, cyber/bioware en detail (especially official product names, but not just more)) I'd like to add some cents of mine.
My personal favorite sourcebooks are the "Target:..."-Series, because I got a glimpse on many details on a focussed assortment of subjects while leaving still a lot of clues on related subjects open to fill by myself.
I did miss that a lot in SoNA (Targets UCAS and Smugglers' Havens gave a little bit more perspective on how the places (Boston, Detroit and New Orleans, at least) feel, IMHO.)
Then I saw some in DotSW, though on too high a level to adequately translate it into adventures or campaigns suitable for my group. And SoE - well, I'm still at sifting through France, but some hooks did strike my eyes.
Since I'm my group's GM, hooks are of utmost importance, so give me more of them, please, preferably some that easily translate into runs paying no more than medium lifestyles. My players don't get Über-PCs, so they need non-Über-Runs. And I like to accommodate them.
In general, the quick and simple way of Mob War and Blood in the Boardroom was perfect. As were a lot of the encounters in Sprawl Sites. Since a lot of the previous posters asked for maps and schemes, a remake of said Sprawl Sites would kill two insect spirits with one stone.
We do more than just the usual runs, however, so I'd like to ask if maybe the idea of alternate campaigns does get a chance in the future.
SOTA 2063 (the 3rd edition sourcebook leading my top 20 list of SR-Supplements followed by Target:Wastelands and the introduction of Fields of Fire) was worth much more in terms of information than mere equipment and techniques. Not only with hooks for regular runs, but my favorite alternatives as well. I would like to see the idea of mercenaries and their actions expanded, as SOTA and Wastelands so marvelously picked up from both companions. Probably with a campaign supplement/adventure collection.
I'm also quite fond of magic and it's workings and looking for ideas to start a magic-centered campaign with my magically active PCs, so a Target:Magic would be most appreciated.
I read of espionage equipment being described in SOTA 2064. How wonderful would it be, if it contains background infos (probably in the style of GURPS Espionage, but fitting to the SR setting,) and stories/hooks like SOTA 2063 did.
At last, I see no necessity for a fourth edition (most of the rules do suit me quite well, we changed few thing (heavy pistols do the same damage as SMGs, Sniper Rifles just as sport rifles, armor-related penalties to quickness-based skills and pool depend on the character's strength) and I do not care that much about the art nowadays.)
Yet I agree, one thing could be done. I do not like to carry a big and heavy sportsbag around every time we do not convene at my place. So I ask for the ultimate: The Ultimate Rule Manual and the Ultimate Equipment Handbook and the Ultimate Creation Guide.
One book that comprises all relevant rules: General Skill use, combat, healing, magic, matrix, vehicle use, break and entry, electronics.
Another book that comprises all relevant equipment: Gun, Vehicles, you name it.
And one book that contains all information that is only occasionally needed, like character creation, gun creation, vehicle creation, spell and focus creation, whatever.
Whatever the cost, I buy it. I bought nearly every rule and source book since 1990 quite early so I lack the incorporation of errata. That way I get something both compact and current. So I would not mind if each costs between 40-75 €.
Even more for the first, limited edition bound in leather...
My personal favorite sourcebooks are the "Target:..."-Series, because I got a glimpse on many details on a focussed assortment of subjects while leaving still a lot of clues on related subjects open to fill by myself.
I did miss that a lot in SoNA (Targets UCAS and Smugglers' Havens gave a little bit more perspective on how the places (Boston, Detroit and New Orleans, at least) feel, IMHO.)
Then I saw some in DotSW, though on too high a level to adequately translate it into adventures or campaigns suitable for my group. And SoE - well, I'm still at sifting through France, but some hooks did strike my eyes.
Since I'm my group's GM, hooks are of utmost importance, so give me more of them, please, preferably some that easily translate into runs paying no more than medium lifestyles. My players don't get Über-PCs, so they need non-Über-Runs. And I like to accommodate them.
In general, the quick and simple way of Mob War and Blood in the Boardroom was perfect. As were a lot of the encounters in Sprawl Sites. Since a lot of the previous posters asked for maps and schemes, a remake of said Sprawl Sites would kill two insect spirits with one stone.
We do more than just the usual runs, however, so I'd like to ask if maybe the idea of alternate campaigns does get a chance in the future.
SOTA 2063 (the 3rd edition sourcebook leading my top 20 list of SR-Supplements followed by Target:Wastelands and the introduction of Fields of Fire) was worth much more in terms of information than mere equipment and techniques. Not only with hooks for regular runs, but my favorite alternatives as well. I would like to see the idea of mercenaries and their actions expanded, as SOTA and Wastelands so marvelously picked up from both companions. Probably with a campaign supplement/adventure collection.
I'm also quite fond of magic and it's workings and looking for ideas to start a magic-centered campaign with my magically active PCs, so a Target:Magic would be most appreciated.
I read of espionage equipment being described in SOTA 2064. How wonderful would it be, if it contains background infos (probably in the style of GURPS Espionage, but fitting to the SR setting,) and stories/hooks like SOTA 2063 did.
At last, I see no necessity for a fourth edition (most of the rules do suit me quite well, we changed few thing (heavy pistols do the same damage as SMGs, Sniper Rifles just as sport rifles, armor-related penalties to quickness-based skills and pool depend on the character's strength) and I do not care that much about the art nowadays.)
Yet I agree, one thing could be done. I do not like to carry a big and heavy sportsbag around every time we do not convene at my place. So I ask for the ultimate: The Ultimate Rule Manual and the Ultimate Equipment Handbook and the Ultimate Creation Guide.
One book that comprises all relevant rules: General Skill use, combat, healing, magic, matrix, vehicle use, break and entry, electronics.
Another book that comprises all relevant equipment: Gun, Vehicles, you name it.
And one book that contains all information that is only occasionally needed, like character creation, gun creation, vehicle creation, spell and focus creation, whatever.
Whatever the cost, I buy it. I bought nearly every rule and source book since 1990 quite early so I lack the incorporation of errata. That way I get something both compact and current. So I would not mind if each costs between 40-75 €.
Even more for the first, limited edition bound in leather...
| QUOTE (VoceNoctum @ Aug 1 2004, 12:18 AM) |
| Only with SoE has it come to me examining whether I really should buy them at all anymore. |
VoceNoctum - I'm at a loss why SoE in particular would provoke such a reaction, especially when it follows directly in the style of the SoNA book. It does seem you have a problem with both the format and the contents - which in fact build directly on stuff from First Edition - although I'm unclear as to what those distinct problems actually are from your posts. Anyway, that's besides the point of this thread.
I honestly suggest you pick up MrJLBB next month since a lot of what you are asking for in that last post (minus the major city details) will be in that. Just goes to show your opinion on FanPro's direction might be more than slightly unfounded.
Accel - That's one of the things I personally like about the themed Target: and the regional Shadows of... formats. They complement each other and provide just enough detail that they can easily be tweaked for most campaigns. Personally I don't need lists of local bars, gangs and fixers, I've got plenty of those in my files which can be tailored to just about any city. Plots, intrigues and general background allows me much more leeway.
Good to see someone else who likes the track campaigns. Personally they're my favorite adventure format on the market balancing background and outlining just enough of an adventure framework for me to tweak to my heart's content. Unfortunately they appear not to have gone over as well as traditional adventure formats, a lot of people complained they lacked enough detail or required too much work on the GMs behalf. I'm a fan though and I hope FanPro does more.
As described at Origins and last year's RatCon, MrJLBB looks like it will be (at least partially) the revamp of Sprawl Sites people are talking about. So once again FanPro seems to be ahead of the curve.
SOTA64 will cover Espionage in much the same way as SOTA63 featured Mercs so I think you'll be one happy fan. Not only that but you'll be getting more magic background and rules for that campaign of yours (assuming you're okay with European magic).
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| That's one of the things I personally like about the themed Target: and the regional Shadows of... formats. They complement each other and provide just enough detail that they can easily be tweaked for most campaigns. Personally I don't need lists of local bars, gangs and fixers, I've got plenty of those in my files which can be tailored to just about any city. Plots, intrigues and general background allows me much more leeway. |
With details I did not mean bars and gangs in detail (though something like the thirteen pages list of places in New Seattle would not go unappreciated) but enough scenary to get more than a first impression. I bought SoNA and I bought SoE, yet both left me (as far as I read SoE, now finished with GB) with the feeling of missing a little bit. I know you can't do a chapter on every major European City like New Seattle was done, so Target... and Shadows of... are to be different. Still I doubt a second Target:UCAS or a Target:European Hot Spots will see the light of day. I know of Brennpunkt:ADL (Target:AGS) yet I do not share your appreciation for DidS (nor did I like Walzer, Punks und Schwarzes Eis/Chrom und Dioxin) so my expectations about that are quite dimmed.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| Good to see someone else who likes the track campaigns. Personally they're my favorite adventure format on the market balancing background and outlining just enough of an adventure framework for me to tweak to my heart's content. Unfortunately they appear not to have gone over as well as traditional adventure formats, a lot of people complained they lacked enough detail or required too much work on the GMs behalf. I'm a fan though and I hope FanPro does more. |
As do I. Next adventure I bought was Wake of the Comet. Was I utterly disappointed, mostly because of the price to quantity ratio but also because of the setting being incompatible with my style of adventure. (Never again will I buy an adventure online.)
Both tracked campaign sets allowed for the most of customizing runs and adventures to the individual groups, and what a lot of adventures that were. We're still not through with Blood in the Boardroom.
For the lack of detail, well that's why I like sourcebooks more rich in detail so that I do not have to read through volumes of adventures which I still have to customize to suit my team. Another point is availability of information for the PCs. I'm not truely a friend of handouts, I'd have my player have background info through the regular shadowland channel (i.e. they read the players' part of sourcebooks and retain the info for the next time.)
Considering the GM's work, I'd rather read five paragraphes and fill out the blanks myself than sift through 20-40 pages of information which I deem not fitting as it is and have to adjust after I had to read them. Heck, the standard good adventure has a starting point, three to five turning points and a worked-out climax. These events need be fleshed out. Everything else is good improvisation.
Both tracked campaign sets allowed for the most of customizing runs and adventures to the individual groups, and what a lot of adventures that were. We're still not through with Blood in the Boardroom.
For the lack of detail, well that's why I like sourcebooks more rich in detail so that I do not have to read through volumes of adventures which I still have to customize to suit my team. Another point is availability of information for the PCs. I'm not truely a friend of handouts, I'd have my player have background info through the regular shadowland channel (i.e. they read the players' part of sourcebooks and retain the info for the next time.)
Considering the GM's work, I'd rather read five paragraphes and fill out the blanks myself than sift through 20-40 pages of information which I deem not fitting as it is and have to adjust after I had to read them. Heck, the standard good adventure has a starting point, three to five turning points and a worked-out climax. These events need be fleshed out. Everything else is good improvisation.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| As described at Origins and last year's RatCon, MrJLBB looks like it will be (at least partially) the revamp of Sprawl Sites people are talking about. So once again FanPro seems to be ahead of the curve. |
Then there's already one customer waiting for sure.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| SOTA64 will cover Espionage in much the same way as SOTA63 featured Mercs so I think you'll be one happy fan. Not only that but you'll be getting more magic background and rules for that campaign of yours (assuming you're okay with European magic). |
Now that's great news. Middle of August, right? Mere weeks to further happiness if schedule holds.
| QUOTE |
| VoceNoctum - I'm at a loss why SoE in particular would provoke such a reaction, especially when it follows directly in the style of the SoNA book. It does seem you have a problem with both the format and the contents - which in fact build directly on stuff from First Edition - although I'm unclear as to what those distinct problems actually are from your posts. Anyway, that's besides the point of this thread. |
Truthfully, if you don't get it by now, you probably won't ever. I would never abandon a gameline for one book. (For instance, I love D20 Modern, but D20 WEapons Locker from WotC was the first book I have ever returned. That doesn't detract from the line though.) If I knock down a neat little victorian era house, and built a monstrous ugly corporate building, it would be the same base, but different entirely.
| QUOTE |
I honestly suggest you pick up MrJLBB next month since a lot of what you are asking for in that last post (minus the major city details) will be in that. Just goes to show your opinion on FanPro's direction might be more than slightly unfounded. |
I can't judge how useful the LBB will be, but I will say the description was too vague for me to really get a feel for it at all. The locales and random encounter tables sound like Sprawl Sites, but that's not really what I meant above. I'll not comment on LBB before it comes out though.
From what I saw, the book is probably already written, but I hope you guys finally laid to rest the "screwed by a Johnson" archetype of adventure.
For one of my GM's, you should also do a "what flunkies know" book, since none of his flunkies ever know anything.
It's hard to investigate stuff when your questioning is totaly thwarted from the start.I thought SSG was useful in some ways, the Lifestyle stuff in the back was neat, but long overdue and houseruled 8 billion times before, but still neat to have in print. The runner/reporter was bland for me, but useful for someone new to things I should think. The early part was written fine, but perfectly portrayed the everpresent nature of life in EuroSR (j/k!) in that there's NO room for Shadowrunners at times. (It's all well and fine that you can get to a Norm so easily and in so many ways, but that leaves you with the same weakenesses, and now you're UCAS Most Wanted)
| QUOTE (VoceNoctum @ Aug 1 2004, 06:28 PM) |
| (It's all well and fine that you can get to a Norm so easily and in so many ways, but that leaves you with the same weakenesses, and now you're UCAS Most Wanted) |
Unless your friendly neighborhood decker contact wipes out the files the Feds and Lone Stars databases have on you or better yet replaces parts of the data with misleading info, or you take a 2-month vacation in the Barrens (or Amsterdam or GeMiTo) until things cool down, get some surgery to change the way you look, move to a different city/nation, get all new IDs, etc - the sort of thing a professional criminal would do.
I just can't take a place called "GeMiTo" seriously.
In Italian "Gemito" means "whimper of pain", which made it a nice acronym for the Genua-Milan-Turin sprawl in the mind of the original Italian contributor, although admittedly he'd gone even farther than I did with the concept.
If they would just call (or more correctly, spell) it Gemito, a lot of my trepedation about it would be gone. As it stands it's like saying, "Hey, let's head down to SeAttLe." I dunno. Maybe I put too much into aesthetics. Now that I think about it, I do cringe when I see people type "ShadowRun," too, so maybe I really should rip that stick out of my ass sometime soon.
Now that I think about it, I do cringe when I see people type "ShadowRun," too, so maybe I really should rip that stick out of my ass sometime soon.
haha. just be glad you don't play MechWarrior.
And be glad they don't call it shadowRun. *Glares at whoever came up with that particular naming convention*
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| In Italian "Gemito" means "whimper of pain", which made it a nice acronym for the Genua-Milan-Turin sprawl in the mind of the original Italian contributor, although admittedly he'd gone even farther than I did with the concept. |
Finally i figure out what that means. I am like 30 pages into the book and I have seen it referenced three or four times but not with an explanation. Now to figure out where I get the low down on this Spinrad thing...Paul goes back to reading SOE....
I agree that some rules are too complicated, especially vehicle rules.
I would definately buy a Big Book of Tables - I am tired of having to get five extra books to create a character just because I need three pieces of gear from each.
I agree that more examples would be useful. This could be done online, either by fans or FanPro. Someone mentioned doing an entire example run, which sounds like an excellent idea.
I find it odd how stuff that "just came out" in '56 with Cyber technology is still so expensive. Maybe some rough idea on how fast cyberware floods the market. This could also be a fan project.
With something as complicated as Shadowrun, an index is necessary. I would rather see a book have an index than character sheets in the back. I would rather see content or graphics cut to make room for an index than for the reverse to happen.
Rules need better playtesting.
Although I do not know how this could be accomplished, I think that the SR world needs more life injected into it. Although the 'runner essay' format works for some things, even the newer shadowtalk seems too scripted at times. I would like to see more fluffy sections like the battle scene in RA:S or Ghostwalker's attack in DOTSW. More 'free-form' sections would be nice, with shadowtalk bantering, would be a step in the right direction.
I would definately buy a Big Book of Tables - I am tired of having to get five extra books to create a character just because I need three pieces of gear from each.
I agree that more examples would be useful. This could be done online, either by fans or FanPro. Someone mentioned doing an entire example run, which sounds like an excellent idea.
I find it odd how stuff that "just came out" in '56 with Cyber technology is still so expensive. Maybe some rough idea on how fast cyberware floods the market. This could also be a fan project.
With something as complicated as Shadowrun, an index is necessary. I would rather see a book have an index than character sheets in the back. I would rather see content or graphics cut to make room for an index than for the reverse to happen.
Rules need better playtesting.
Although I do not know how this could be accomplished, I think that the SR world needs more life injected into it. Although the 'runner essay' format works for some things, even the newer shadowtalk seems too scripted at times. I would like to see more fluffy sections like the battle scene in RA:S or Ghostwalker's attack in DOTSW. More 'free-form' sections would be nice, with shadowtalk bantering, would be a step in the right direction.
| QUOTE (Paul @ Aug 1 2004, 10:16 PM) |
| Finally i figure out what that means. I am like 30 pages into the book and I have seen it referenced three or four times but not with an explanation. Now to figure out where I get the low down on this Spinrad thing...Paul goes back to reading SOE.... |
There will be some more stuff about Spinrad up on SRRPG.com before GenCon.
Very cool, thanks Adam!
At all the people like me who wouldn't mind a bunch of tables:
Do any of you have any coding skills? Why not put together a really cool DAT file for the NSRCG or even a volunteer project that conatains all of this?
I'd help. I have no skills, only enthusiam to offer, but I mean the Seattle Expansion for TSS started out as a couple of posts. Hell the SOE started as a thread on this forum.
At all the people like me who wouldn't mind a bunch of tables:
Do any of you have any coding skills? Why not put together a really cool DAT file for the NSRCG or even a volunteer project that conatains all of this?
I'd help. I have no skills, only enthusiam to offer, but I mean the Seattle Expansion for TSS started out as a couple of posts. Hell the SOE started as a thread on this forum.
What about SR 3.5, doing what should have been done when they planned SR 3:
- Get a team together
- Write down a complete rules set (you're not starting from scratch after all)
- Make the changes you think necessary
- Check for stability, logic, playability and consistency
- Make the needed changes
- repeat last two steps until stable
- Split up rules in multiple parts if necessary
- Publish
Would have sparred the end-user tons of discussions and massive errata (It's far beyond the "in sentence <bla> at <blub> at <sülz>" type after all) and made the game feel more "complete". Currently they have a "cobbled together" feeling. Start with one system and make sure all others are "the same" (i.e use the naval scale and divisors like 0.03LN for persons )
And <James Brown mode> please, please, please</James Brown mode> stop the "hey, here's another new (meta)magical thingie" trend. There's enough magic (aside from KiAd-stuff) and (aside from half a dozend thinks) enough cyber in the game for another decade or so (<tired> Yes, I know that mythology and Magic sells. Been to a bookstore recently. But I'm still not a big fan of it. And I new that it's just a big greeny conspiracy!(Hint: Fallen Angels. I would be a fan;-) </tired>) please give us some ways for the mundanes to counter it instead, making certain mundane archetypes useful again.
And from experience:
Players actually have a tendency for tons! of house-rules and for ignoring parts of canon since it is considered cheesy/munchkin! Often you hear "nice background, lousy system" or "nice idea but a munchkin-infested area" or "tooo high powered" (that's where the LowTech rules came from - not that they solve the problem)
So what about a book more along the "Primitive Screwhead" lines, with tips (far beyond Companion) on campaigns other than "Free-Lance Spys" and alternate approaches to character design etc? Kind of an "Individual papers" approach with various persons getting 10-20 pages to present "different views on SR" and/or campaign settings with the changes necessary to make them work (yes, one can do that himself. I can also watch all of StarTrek, take GURPS and build me the equipment/background/templates. In both cases I'd rather pay for others to do it since that means getting it within 1.5 years instead of 1.5 decades). Something like "Best of Pyramid" or a printed TSS but officially. Would (for me) be worth two-three "SotF" or "SoE".
Birdy
- Get a team together
- Write down a complete rules set (you're not starting from scratch after all)
- Make the changes you think necessary
- Check for stability, logic, playability and consistency
- Make the needed changes
- repeat last two steps until stable
- Split up rules in multiple parts if necessary
- Publish
Would have sparred the end-user tons of discussions and massive errata (It's far beyond the "in sentence <bla> at <blub> at <sülz>" type after all) and made the game feel more "complete". Currently they have a "cobbled together" feeling. Start with one system and make sure all others are "the same" (i.e use the naval scale and divisors like 0.03LN for persons
)And <James Brown mode> please, please, please</James Brown mode> stop the "hey, here's another new (meta)magical thingie" trend. There's enough magic (aside from KiAd-stuff) and (aside from half a dozend thinks) enough cyber in the game for another decade or so (<tired> Yes, I know that mythology and Magic sells. Been to a bookstore recently. But I'm still not a big fan of it. And I new that it's just a big greeny conspiracy!(Hint: Fallen Angels. I would be a fan;-) </tired>) please give us some ways for the mundanes to counter it instead, making certain mundane archetypes useful again.
And from experience:
Players actually have a tendency for tons! of house-rules and for ignoring parts of canon since it is considered cheesy/munchkin! Often you hear "nice background, lousy system" or "nice idea but a munchkin-infested area" or "tooo high powered" (that's where the LowTech rules came from - not that they solve the problem)
So what about a book more along the "Primitive Screwhead" lines, with tips (far beyond Companion) on campaigns other than "Free-Lance Spys" and alternate approaches to character design etc? Kind of an "Individual papers" approach with various persons getting 10-20 pages to present "different views on SR" and/or campaign settings with the changes necessary to make them work (yes, one can do that himself. I can also watch all of StarTrek, take GURPS and build me the equipment/background/templates. In both cases I'd rather pay for others to do it since that means getting it within 1.5 years instead of 1.5 decades). Something like "Best of Pyramid" or a printed TSS but officially. Would (for me) be worth two-three "SotF" or "SoE".
Birdy
For Alternative Character Design I suggest downloading BeCKs from TSS. It doesn't get much better than that. 
| QUOTE (Paul) |
| For Alternative Character Design I suggest downloading BeCKs from TSS. It doesn't get much better than that. |
Been there, downloaded (and used) that. Maybe it's because of that new-fangled language they use around here (what do you expect from something barely 934 years old).
What I am searching for is not another set of CG-rules (neither the "use only XX CP/Karma/Elmoints" ideas) but rather stuff on:
- Playing a cop, who pays/owns my equipment, basic rules of behaviour etc[1].
- Same for other campaigns where I am an employee (i.e Mercs, The Specialists/CI5 etc)
- Stuff on "professional-deniable corporate assets" vs. "semi-professional, freelance assets" (Corp-team vs. Shadowrunners)[2]. Information on how to play a Mission:Impossibe (series not movies) / Bugs / Acapulco Heat / VIP style "semi-legal/government" team [3] (those should exists
- Stuff on gangs (unless roman-catholic minstrels count, I've never been in one) and what the do, how they behave. Various types of them, ways to graduate to organised crime
None is worth a full book since parts are already there but all are IMHO worth a long article. So maybe two or three of these in a sourcebook (i.e. "Gangs and Gangbusters" for Gangs/Low level made man vs Beatcops/Low Level detectives) They should be written similar to the security article in "SoTA:63" with somebody telling from his PoV (back when I was ....) with some necessary tables and dice-role modifiers (IMHO getting a high-tech gun is more difficult for a ganger than for a professional Runner, getting some drugs easier) and ideas for "building your own" in the back. More settings than rules.
Birdy
[1] Thank you for the info that it's in the LS sourcebook. I don't own it. Nobody I know owns it. It's at least time for a reprint. And at rules for playing a New Yorker guest-detective in Londons special branch please.
[2] This is possibly in MrJ
[3] One of the few areas we're still lacking some gear&cyber IMHO. And no, SpecOps is not! what I have in mind here.
| QUOTE (Lord Ver'an) |
| I find it odd how stuff that "just came out" in '56 with Cyber technology is still so expensive. Maybe some rough idea on how fast cyberware floods the market. This could also be a fan project. |
With the exception of things like datajacks, which are pretty much at their minimum price anyway, it probably doesn't flood the market in the least. Demand overall is low, but the demand amongst those who demand is extremely high, and demand is unlikely to be increased significantly via lower prices.
~J
Damn, I was hoping to get my 6 million nuyen Sammie for only 750,000.
There are some basic rules about gangs in Shadowrun Companion.
| QUOTE (L.D) |
| There are some basic rules about gangs in Shadowrun Companion. |
Okay, just to state it:
I have and have read the Compagnion (actually: both versions). The informations in there are basics. Some short ideas on a ganger campaign and that's it. Other books give stats for NPC gangers/criminals and not much more. There's one novel (Lone Wolf IIRC) that goes a bit into detail on a rather high-level gang (The Cutters) but uses them as pawns that quickly die out.
What I am asking to is a book that goes further with some "Insider articles" and some flowcharts, stuff on various gang-types etc. Since that won't fill a book, add other stuff like cops or/and low-level organised crime (the "made man" of Mafia, not the Dons) I don't want an organisiation-diagramm of "Lone Star" but I'd like some ideas what is in a police department. I would like some rules/guidelines for questions like "Do I have to take ressources on chargen or do I get the stuff free as a cop", some sample policeman (TJ Hooker/Dirk Mattes style beatcops, Hunter / Makepeace/ Harry style Detectives, Hammer / Spade (and Poirot) style private eyes) and how to use them. Sure, I can buy "Gurps:Cops" and "Gurps:SWAT" (and have quite a few primers on the IRL thing) but I'd rather have a system-specific book due to the differences between SR and IRL.
I don't want a top-down view of the stuff. We have enough Dons/Ojabuns/<Whats his number>/Hobbit crimelords already published (okay, some for Europe would be nice) but we lack in bottom-up views (And if someone on the board starts telling his experience I'd be scarred
More if he's from Europe) If they add in some ideas along "from ganger to cyberpunk" (instead of from ganger to shadowrunner)[1]Same for such thinks as corp runners. Some add-ons for chargen, some new equipment, some "talk". Again one can splice this stuff together from other sources (i.e Cyberpunk) but again, I am lazy and I like official stuff (Most SR I play is at conventions this days)
[1] They tell you Cyberpunk is dead and the times have changed so much, it'll never be. Sure! Look at the US government and who owns it. Look at the german government who fights with the opposition for a chance to kiss ass on the industrie. Take a look on Italie where the President/Media Baron tried to pass laws protecting him and his interests. The SR version might never happen. The oppression might be different (hire&fire, loose your job and you loose everything instead of the all-encompassing corp family, states spying on their citizens while toading to the bosses instead of exteritorrial megacorps) but Cyberpunk is more. It's fighting against an oppressive, free-running capitalism that sees humans as tools, that tries to make CEO's into the new nobilitie, a technocracy. It's about haves vs. have nots, about a CEO's kids using Squatters for target practice and getting away with a 20$ fine for "unwarranted discharge of firearms" while his father gets beaten to death by the same cops for uttering a thread towards that kid. Most Shadowrun stuff will never be "Cyberpunk" since working for one corp against another is not the same as the rather "Robin Hood / Andreas Hoffer / Rob Roy / The James Brothers " (Hollywood version) style "rob the rich, help the poor" attitude of the counter movement that's at the core of Punk.
It's been a while since I read the Underworld sorucebook, but isn't there some more info about gangs there? But that book's been OOP for a while now.
| QUOTE (L.D) |
| It's been a while since I read the Underworld sorucebook, but isn't there some more info about gangs there? But that book's been OOP for a while now. |
One of the few I don't own so I can't say. If there is that info, a reprint-run might be nice (or I go book hunting and store-crawling)
Birdy
I am running a ganger campaign as a alternative in between down time with my long standing campaign I have been running. The only problem I am having is running large combats and keeping track of every PC and NPC. So I have pulled out my DMZ Box Set. ( O BIG Cohuna please hear my call) Which I hope Fanpro would release a updated version. With this it helps with large scale combats.
But as you say there seems to little infomation availible on Gangers. I had to research through all the books I have on a set district to get infomation on gangers and the like.
If anyone has infomation on this or ha some references please help.
But as you say there seems to little infomation availible on Gangers. I had to research through all the books I have on a set district to get infomation on gangers and the like.
If anyone has infomation on this or ha some references please help.
The old Sprawl Locations, or maybe it was the Seattle Sourcebook had some good gang information, except it's a little dated now.
I seem to remember that the syndicates got ratings similar to those in CD (although in different areas) and that they gave numbers for what constituted syndicates, 1:st level gang, 2:nd level gang and 3:rd level gang with The Cutters and Ancients ranking as first level and most other gangs as third.
| QUOTE (Domino) |
| Damn, I was hoping to get my 6 million nuyen Sammie for only 750,000. |
Just ask your local body-bank. They might have him on ice.
Birdy
Underworld sourcebook and the Shadowrun Companion also had information on various gangs and how they operate, but Seattle and New Seattle are the most important sources for gangs in Seattle.
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| Underworld sourcebook and the Shadowrun Companion also had information on various gangs and how they operate, but Seattle and New Seattle are the most important sources for gangs in Seattle. |
Given that at least some of the books are OOP what are the chances that:
The stuff might end up on the official website
TSS might bring out an issue on gangs and gangers
TSS might do the above and similar stuff on other themes like cops etc
Birdy
The last two depend heavily on interest:
1) Fan interest in reading it
2) Fan interest in writing it
3) Our interest in editing and publishing it if
a) #1 is large enough and
b) #2 is written well enough.
1) Fan interest in reading it
2) Fan interest in writing it
3) Our interest in editing and publishing it if
a) #1 is large enough and
b) #2 is written well enough.
Two distinct posts to seperate official from fan stuff.
| QUOTE |
| Given that at least some of the books are OOP what are the chances that: The stuff might end up on the official website |
As was mentioned at Origins, OOP stuff should be on sale at DriveThruRPG.com sometime in the future - some legal wrangling still going on.
| QUOTE |
Given that at least some of the books are OOP what are the chances that: TSS might bring out an issue on gangs and gangers TSS might do the above and similar stuff on other themes like cops etc |
If people have an interest in submitting stuff on these subjects, sure. Honestly, I'm not that interested in going over gangs - they've been done a lot in canon already.
Some example gangs could be added to the Seattle 2064 book, I suppose.
Cops may be more interesting - I did want to do a non-shadowrunners issue awhile back, but it's been really back-burnered due to lack of time.
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