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This thread comes from the discussion over on the SoE board regarding not so much that book but the direction the Shadowrun line has taken. Since I think this is an interesting discussion and mostly lost and out of place on the subforum, I'd like to bring it here. Part of the reason I'd like to see more debate on this is simply to get a sounding (however biased it might be) regarding not so much what people dislike about the current products (a trend which has been all too common on these boards of late) but rather what they would like.

Try to be constructive, there's no point in tearing stuff down if you yourself don't know what you want specifically or would like to see.
For what it's worth I'd like to ask posters to keep this as civil and constructive as possible. In the spirit of open discussion I'd like to ask people, especially those who seem to have a problem with the current direction, to come forward and say not what they wouldn't like to see but what they wouldlike to see for the next 5-6 Shadowrun books both in terms of content and general direction/focus. Literally, what would please you to see come up next.

As a couple of informative notes I'd like to add the following factoids that may or may not help the discussion (this is from European distributor sources but I am led to believe by the same that the situation is identical in America) :
* Adventures are selling worse than ever on the RPG market, campaigns sell marginally better but still far behind normal source- and rule-books.
* Single location books in any genre, except possibly Superheroes, are selling badly.
Shadows of the Middle-East
Shadows of Asia

Yes, in that order. Aside from that (which isn't really what you asked..):

I'd like to see things go worse. People are too happy. Sure the corps are supposed to keep the citizens completely numb and happy, but when I look at the SR world, well, it's not that depressing. Not good, but not that bad. There needs to be more flavour added to contrasts in SR. The gap between the good parts of town and the bad parts. Rich vs poor. And more people. I'd like a suffocating atmosphere, just way too much people in the cities. More slime on the walls.

Hmm... that's pretty vague. I'll wait for a few more answers and then rethink my stuff.

General direction:

Less "Magic" (Try a few books without adding new). Develop the line started with the Leech-construct and add technical methods against some magic influences etc. Currently in most scenarios you can play a mage/ki or you'll better bring a book since non-mage Faces/Romeos/Thiefs etc are easily outclassed and useless

More "Streetstyle". It's a bleak future wether you base it on real life or the 80s Cyberpunk. SSG had some nice parts. More on street level operations (Maybe a book on gangs and low-level thugs/cartels, not on the big Dons and Ojabuns) You might add some stuff on the street-cops and penal system for a criminal campaign. As an alternate a "gumshoe" or "streetcop" campaign could be supported (Few people have the old LS book)

Turning the setting "down". Less "Survival of the Fittest/Renraku Arcologie" and more "Mikey Spillane/Dashil Hammet/TJ Hooker" It's not the amount of build-points that makes a street-level campaign, it's the general trend of the environment. The story has IMHO gotten "too big" when runners deal with big wyrms and have middle or upper class SINs. The world has to many bright spots

Maybe a "Gutterpunk" alternate setting that tells GM's what parts of the "official" universe to ignore/change to make it dirty and mean (Actually not that many changes necessary). Sadly Space/Underwater are already done by T:Wl otherwise a bleak setting in the style of the last SeaQuest half-season would have been nice.

QUOTE (Backgammon @ Jul 27 2004, 12:42 AM)
Shadows of the Middle-East
Shadows of Asia

I assume this means you're okay with the SoNA/SoE style format of books and their contents. Rather than say a Target: X or a single location/city book (either like Seattle or NAGNA). This is one of the points I'd like to bring up. How do you feel not only regarding the contents but the books themselves. Would you by a detailed single location book (like New Seattle), something less detailed but more encompassing (like the Shadows of books) or something in between (like the Target: X books).

And while on the issue, would you prefer such books contained more rules and more toys and less proliferous adventure seeds and background material?

Birdy - Just for reference, where would you place a book like SoNA or SoE on your "size" scale. Or wouldn't you do them at all?
electronic networking. i want to see more useable rules for things like controlling drone networks from a cyberdeck; surveillance via multiple sensory feeds (maybe using portable CCSS hosts); detecting and deciphering encrypted radio networks; decking from pocsecs; running programs from normal computers; using p2p networks to download low-rated/buggy programs; stats for non-BTL programs sold in Matrix bars; and tons of other stuff i can't think of off the top of my head.

i'd prefer a good mix of adventure seeds/material and toys. i don't prefer specific seeds, though--i'd rather see situations, like "Saeder-Krupp is stepping up operations against Ares" or whatever. fill out some general details of a situation like that, letting GMs create their own stories from it.

i also agree with those who say the setting should be a bit more depressing.
Sort of building on what Backgammon said, I'd like to see some more dark and gritty flavor come up in the books. Though not so much contrasting (though it's sorely needed) as that people are generally unhappy. The bums in the streets are unhappy, the wageslaves are unhappy, even the rich are unhappy. "The world is not a good place, nor is there innocence for me to hide in."

I'd also like to see some more emphasis on new technologies and sciences. Geneware was a good start but there's not a lot that actually comes up in games (that I've seen, at least).

Oh, and more elf porn >_> love.gif
Large Mike

I concur. Darker. Grittier. This is supposed to be about criminals, no matter how romantic their image. Even in modern society, a life of crime is rough and causes one to look over their shoulder alot.
Personally, I'd like to see more "hook" style adventures (like Mob War and Blood in the Boardroom) and less detailed in every respect adventures. I appreciate more adventures in the same space is harder to write, however I know that personally, I would be guarunteed to buy any such book whereas for any "detailed"style adventures, I have a look through it and need to convince myself there's any need me to buy it.

In terms of direction, I like the approach that has been taken thus far. I like the sidelining of immortal elves, I like the fleshing out of dragons without the need ot go as far as stats (giving them personalities and goals rather than "a dragon is involved in this run and now you're dead"), I like the SSG and I'm a big fan of the SOTA book thus far. In terms of game development, focus less on every person in charge of every group being a mysterious person with no past and unknown magical abilities and more on their personality. I like to run adventures where the evil CEO type is not a magical death-machine cyberzombie free spirit, but is just a mundane guy who has appropriate brain-type cyberware, who is really smart and incredibly ruthless. More development of personalities who are not Ryan f%$%ng Mercury-level elite people - for example, skilled professionals who occasionally get hurt. I wouldn't be against the death of a few of those rediculous and unnecessary immortal elves, for starters - someone killed the Big D for God's sake, so why not a few of the IEs?

I'm also not against more technology vs less magic. At the moment, magicians are way too heavily over-powered - I find it impossible, for example, to run a one-player game where the player is a magician, because there is just no stopping them. I am keen for more cyberware, more bioware (especially) and possibly more equipment. I know it's not cool to say it, but I like the stat books - I think they add as much character to the game as the non-stat books.

I like the expansion of detail on the Matrix, and the increase of abilities and usefulness of deckers since Target: Matrix and Matrix. More of this would be useful, although I cannot for the life of me see where these could be further expanded.

And finally, please, someone assasinate Ryan Mercury in an embarassing way really soon. Have him choke to death on a twinkie on the toilet, or shot by an angry dwarf transvestite for dissing his hood, or beaten in hand-to-hand by an otaku, or caught sneaking into a porn shop and blown away by the 200-kilo owner with an antique shotgun or something. His mere existence is a blight on players everywhere.
Skeptical Clown
New Seattle is probably the best location book available right now, but I can understand why it's a tough sell to make another book like that. Really, it's probably not necessary; Seattle has everything you need for a deep location. I do vast prefer the Target style books to what I've seen in SONA and SOE, although honestly Target: Wastelands was a bit too narrow to use effectively, while Target: Awakened Lands was really too unclear in focus. UCAS (Boston in particular) and Smuggler's Havens provided enough juicy information and grit to keep a campaign afloat, and at least give enough material to stay in town for several sessions.

Honestly, there hasn't been that much innovation in equipment or magic in YEARS; really, I think very little new has been presented since second edition. I certainly think there's some room for new developments in both tech and magic. Just as an example, nanotechnology is nearly useless, and really could use beefing up.

What I DON'T look forward to is warfare and cultural conflicts; I've never run a mercenary campaign, and I don't really think Shadowrun is the most effective system or setting for it. So I don't have any interest in Algonkian-Manitou conflict, and I look forward even less to Middle-eastern jihadist conflicts; that's just a bit too close to reality to be either innovative, or fun. I'd be more impressed if the Middle-East went in some wildly different direction, like secularization and corporatization.

I'm not really sure what to explore next though. There is a lot of ground Shadowrun has covered. Maybe it just takes peeking in corners and under rocks that have only been covered perepherally. I think it could be interesting to have a Target style that focused on maybe half a dozen very different corporate enclaves, if they were distinct enough to be interesting, and porous enough that they weren't impossible for runners to penetrate and exist within. I'm sure there enough remote places that haven't been covered at all, but could house dirty, nasty places to run. Kazhakstan, or Africa, or Pacific islands or something.
I know I'll probably get blasted for this but...a book with more pictures of what stuff looks like (in English wink.gif). For me, alot of my character is based on image--I need to know what his gun (or his car or bike or his drone or etc.) looks like.

Edit: and no offense, but can they be realistic looking? Not the cartoony images that are lightly sprinkled through the CC and they should reasonably match the written descriptions. In 1st Ed, the pics were good but didn't always match the description, like the 227S (a conceal 5 SMG w/ a retractable stock depicted as fixed stock carbine w/ a big scope.)
Ol' Scratch
I know this is going to sound a bit hypocritical, but I would like to see more use of the metaplot in sourcebooks like Shadows of Europe.

I mean, if you're going to include the metaplot in the game, those are the types of books it should be explored in... not the modules. There were a ton of missed opportunities in Shadows of Europe. Very little of the immortal elves conspiracies were evident from what I've read (which, I admit, hasn't really been enough to comment on the book yet -- friggin' dyslexia slowin' me down), and considering that Europe isn't only their main stopping ground but the main base of the Fourth World... well... it just seems like there were a ton of missed opportunities in exchange for some rather dry and uninspired entries.

That's not to say that I don't like SoE -- I was particularly inspired by the fey entry to run an Amsterdam-based game (even if I'm moving their base of operation somewhere else since I really get tired of the whole "let's ruin a cool place by turning it into a toxic waste dump 'cause we're, like, tired of writing or something" angle that seems to crop up a lot in the game) not to mention some of the really minor things like the term "Street Witch"... I still can't believe I never thought of that one. It's just kind of dry and didn't really feel as Shadowrun-y as it could have.

All right, that said, what would I like to see in future sourcebooks?

1. More inclusion of the media. I mean, my god, for a game that constantly harps on about how "information is power," the #1 information junkies on the planet are largely ignored. Forget Lone Star detectives... a newsreporter should be any runner's worst nightmare!

2. Stronger play by the world's governments. Yeah, corporations are a staple in traditional cyberpunk, but Shadowrun isn't traditional cyberpunk. I'd love to see more of the FBI, CIA, NSA, Federal Marshals, and other government organizations but local and abroad. Ever since giving up so much power over hard-to-swallow judgements in the past, I find it even more hard to swallow that various governments would just sit around twiddling their thumbs while the corporations got to have all the fun. If anything, they should be hyper-vigilant about what little power they still have.

3. I would love to see a book dealing with magic on deeper, more interesting level. Not just a bunch of new spells and adept powers (though anything to give adepts more flavor is always welcome), but exploration of major metaplanes so that GMs don't always have to make everything up each time they want to use one. Yes, being able to create your own metaplane on a whim is nice, but having some well-established "settings" on the planes would be really nice. The astral plane is kind of dry and largely untouched by the game... and that's definitely something I'd like to see changed.

While I know Planescape didn't fare well, it was a great setting in and of itself. It added so much flavor to what was otherwise a dull, uninspired aspect of the D&D settings. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It doesn't have to be all inclusive, but... just anything concrete would be nice.

4. Advancements in technology. Not just bigger, more powerful stuff... but all new things. Like the development of wetware; circuitry that has biological components that trump the processing and memory storage abilities of cyberterminals. Memory could be so easy to store that it becomes a non-issue, and decks would have processor ratings that limit the number of utilities that can be run at one time instead of how much memory they take up and transfer speed would still be in play even if the amount of data being transfered would no longer have a limit. Not only could this breath life into an aspect of the game, but it would give the designers a chance to clean up rules that are pretty mucked up while simultaneously making the gameworld seem more alive and dynamic. Things like that. Only mentioned this one as an example 'cause it's something I've been messing around with for my own game. But anything along those lines would be welcomed.

Blah blah blah.
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
1. More inclusion of the media. I mean, my god, for a game that constantly harps on about how "information is power," the #1 information junkies on the planet are largely ignored. Forget Lone Star detectives... a newsreporter should be any runner's worst nightmare!


More nanoware, more Matrix oddness, more mysteries that are posed but not explained; something like SotF could have been done much better if there was the barest of explanation and the outcome was mostly hidden, etc.

Playing Shadowrun, I've gotten to feel that, while I may not be a big fish in a small pond, I am a fish in a pond that I can comprehend the scope of. I want that feeling to be ripped away, torn to shreds, and never given back.

definitely. leave the big stuff largely unexplained.
No more new weapons. Jeez there are enough now. Just slap a different name on it and go. With some of the weapons the differences are so little as to be non-existent. More gear for use on runs that aren't weapons.

The two target books I have, T:AL and T:WL, really amounted to additional rule sets and I felt they should have been included in other books or made as one. Also a return to a livelier shadow talk. The two target books we exceedingly dull and the shadow talk mostly reiterated what was said in the normal text.

How to present settings is a hard one. I don't think single settings are the right track to take but books like SoE are too crowded. Perhaps books with 3 to 4 settings with more detail. Also I don't think we really need anymore rules.

i would definitely disagree with that last statement. at this point, SR techology is behind the modern day in some cases. that needs to be remedied.
Skeptical Clown
I'm honestly a little surprised at how little attention Shadowrun has paid to personal air transport. I think it's implied in both art and description that small helicopters are common transport in cities, but other modes of personal flight are nearly noexistent. I mean, flying cars have been a part of science fiction practically forever, and today they're not even technologically implausible.
In fact, they exist IRL...
sir fwank
personally i was disappointed with sota2063, i expected more cyber i guess. althought we did need mbt stats.

how about "the dark corporate laboratory?"
corporations and their really hidden secrets, maybe something like an extreme experimentation angle. i guess it would kind of amount to like deus and the arc, but with magic and actual research done by powerful organizations.
I don't think we need anymore chrome. What else do you want it to do? Like others, I would like to see more genetech and nanotech.
Ol' Scratch
Options are always good.
I'd like to see things go worse. People are too happy. Sure the corps are supposed to keep the citizens completely numb and happy, but when I look at the SR world, well, it's not that depressing. Not good, but not that bad. There needs to be more flavour added to contrasts in SR. The gap between the good parts of town and the bad parts. Rich vs poor. And more people. I'd like a suffocating atmosphere, just way too much people in the cities. More slime on the walls.

I just finished reading the last of Kage's Wee Bit of Fiction thread, and that's the kind of background setting I'd like to see, especially the first bit in the sewers. Very dark and gritty. They're trapped -- tired, dirty, desparate... Is there a way set the tone in the books more like that?

And I'd second the comments about the artwork. Less cartoony and more realistic. (here are some examples of the level of realism I'd push for: 1, 2, 3, 4)

Please note that these were just the first 4 sites I stumbled across that I liked. No disrespect or criticism intended toward those not listed.

Also note that dispite the artwork on some of the links I posted, this isn't a call for books full of 'cheesecake' pictures. I'm just using them to illustrate what I mean by realistic as opposed to 'cartoony'.
[ Spoiler ]
Jason Farlander
This is not a new complaint, but it seems that adepts dont get nearly as much attention as the other archetypes. MiTS really focused a lot more on spellcasters, and I would like a book that focuses significantly more on adepts than the other books have. It doesnt really seem like such a thing is planned anytime soon... but yeah.

Other than that, I agree that things could be a little gritter. Make it suck a bit more to live in the 2060s, as the better off people are in general, the less sense it makes for people to become shadowrunners.
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 27 2004, 02:55 AM)
I know this is going to sound a bit hypocritical, but I would like to see more use of the metaplot in sourcebooks like Shadows of Europe.

I mean, if you're going to include the metaplot in the game, those are the types of books it should be explored in... not the modules.

I agree with that completely.

But on the other hand i'd really like to see a Ganger's Book that someone else was talking about. Maybe describing certain warlords in the barrens, or even smaller gang infrastructure. I think an economic recession might be a fun route to explore, when suddenly a part of the city that was once suburbs becomes squalid gang turf. Maybe more of a look at road warrior type gangs outside of the cities.

My favorite book is probably Smugglers Haven, because it was a book about a new way to play the game. Though it was largely covering different places in the SR world, it was introducing a fresh role for Shadowrunners, and thats most of all what I think I'd like to see next.. Maybe in the form of the street/gutter style that a lot of people seem to want.

I like the artwork a lot like how it is, except that perhaps more technical pictures should be included of gear and the like.
I for one would like a sourcebook or something which is really nothing more than a collection of maps. Thats the most difficult thing for me as a GM to create. Most of my buildings wind up being like something out of an old video game; nothing but a big square building.

Just general settings like "Waterfront Warehouse" or "Big-Time Nightclub"
I would like to see more unbroken cyberlimb rules.
broken as in...?
As in compared to Bioware who would use them?

I can get my quickness to 9 but if I want a cyber limb to match I need to spend more than the arm and spend additional essence "renforcing" which would cost almost as much as the limb.
okay, in that case, i agree.
I think the computer/IT sourcebook idea is a good one. As it stands IT is either:

1) Break into it and steal the information; or

2) Break into it and turn off the security.

Realistically computers and software should be incorporated into everything and present all kinds of interesting opportunities. Most devices, including mobile ones, should be wired, and there should be all kinds of smart technology that deckers can manipulate in unexpected ways. The "hacking the kitchen" stuff from SOTA (or SSG?) was a nice start, but why not more:

"tail them using the RFID chips on their razor blades"

"hack their pocket secretary to forward copies of phone calls to your data store"

"rewrite their smartgun code to disallow you as a target"

"rewrite their datajack software to introduce mysterious errors into their C2 MPCP"

"rewrite their bioware to introduce a tailored virus into their system"

Basically computing and connectivity need to be a lot more pervasive and as a consequence the ability to reprogram things needs to be a lot more influential. Given how important IT is to the genre it really needs to be taken beyond the kind of early 80's "crack the datafortress and steal the file" model (for which I like the rules and which I think needs to remain part of the game).

This kind of book could also incorporate lifestyle stuff on living with computers, and draw out the digital divide between those who have skills/access and those who don't, and incorporate the kind of imaginative chips (beyond simple skill chips) that are a staple of the fiction and of other systems.
Given the limited appeal the Matrix and Decking rules actually I doubt a dedicated book with more Matrix related stuff is commercially viable. I do think it would makle an interesting SOTA chapter for next year though...

Regarding some of the other posts, it's interesting to see Rob and FanPro seem to be ahead of the curve with many of your interests, and will be providing some of the material you're asking for in books like SOTA64 (notably adepts and other crunchinesses) and MrJLBB (locations and much, much more).

Just like to note I mentioned 5-6 books in the lead in for a reason. A company like FanPro needs to be putting out 4-5 commercially viable books a year to turn a steady profit and not all books have the same appeal (making them less of an interesting investment - ie. a ganger book or a new matrix book). This all factors into what books are chosen to produce and the formats chosen for them.

Keep that in mind too. There's a big difference between a new Matrix book and a chapter in SOTA.
Personally, I'd like to see more done with bioware. Also, how about more "fluff text"? The thought just struck me that another book like Shadowbeat would be nice to have.
I may ramble a bit, so pardon me if I burst into flames.

I would like to see a modular cybernetics design system-ala the Firearms creation guide that Raygun uses. All too often in Shadowrun we see rules of an arbritrary nature concerning cybernetics, and gah nanotech. (So far Nanotech has been something none of my players, both online and in real life have shown even the remotest intrest in.) As was stated, real life at times outpaces the game.

I don't fault the game designers or writers for this. I mean in 1989 when Wired Reflexes are designed intot he game, who's to know in 2004 a totally new idea is to roll along. A lot of stuff is set up for game balance at the exspense of realism. I'm the first guy to say toss the rules whenever it suits you, same for realism if its fun, but I think we can do it better.

This will get me shot-but I'd like a new Street Samurais catalouge. It was by far one of the most popular books that I know of. Cannon Companion was disorganized-Simsense rules? WTF? Can we say filler? Simsense/BTL belonged in M&M and compounds and the like belonged in CC. (Well more so than in M&M) Plus Raygun has a page full of the most awesome weapons ever-enough for a whole book! (Yeah

I think if done right a new Street Sam catalouge would sell. It could easily intergrate a lot of commentary, and color, but still give us old picture pigs our fix.

SSG has been good so far-I like that we're getting less rules in it, and more slice of life. In my opinion its the best book I've bought in a while.

SOE, SONA-the format doesn't bother me. They've both been good reads so far-a few gripes, but overall I can live with that style. It gives me a bit of everything.

This will raise some hackles-but I like Immortal Elfs, the Earthdawn connection and Magic. Its the wild card in the sixth world. Doc Funky's idea about exploring the Metaplanes rules, plus I'd love to see the Adepts Sourcebook make it back intot he realm of possibilty.

I'd like to see the Novels make a come back. I'd liek to see FanPro/Whomever court some high profile people and get them to push out some novel stuff. I realize this is like asking you guys to move the sun-but hey I can day dream in this thread right?

I'd like to see the Sixth World map website of Lester Wards get a overhaul. An interactive map that could be used to put locations and shit up would be cool. Put that in my big pipe dream list.

PDF books.I'd kill to have all the old and new stuff on PDF.

Art: I have never really hated anything in the books. Sure some of its better than others at times, but its a sideline to me. Content matters more than the art does.

Dead Neon: I have that FASA product. Gah whats that called again? The one with the maps of Apartments and nightclubs and sh@t? Oh yeah 7401: Sprawl Maps.

Its okay. I agree though some more really cool maps for people to use would be conveinant-but I think this should be a fan based process. We, as fans, should organize some sort of program and a forum for this sort of thing. A communal map spot. For terrain maps Terra Server does good.

Other than a peripheral, Decking and the Matrix holds little intrest to me and my players. I read Target: Matrix. Once. Its not that it was bad writing-the oppositte actually-but we just don't use a lot of the Matrix in our game. (Heathens, I know.)

Gangers/War Lords: I think this another good idea for a fan initiated project.

I agree with Doc Funky we need to see the resurgence of the Nation State-the FBI, the CIA-all that. They counter balance the Megas.

Okay I think I have rattled on for long enough now.

All in all Shadowrun, to me, is healthy, progressing forward, and my favorite game!
I'll second, or am I third? the idea of wanting maps. They're probably the biggest drag on my games. I'd rather not see things get made gritier. When I want to grind people into the ground with the hopelessness of the world I'll go to White Wolf.
Ohh lets see ... I have so far prefered the Shadows of X compared to Target X books, think there was a question regarding that in the beginning here.

A Shadows of the Middle East before Asia, I'd also like a Shadows of Eastern Europe (mostly Russia) before I see Asia.

Shadows of the Metaplanes/Behind the Curtain? I have been thinking about this durring the summer, having a SG-1 type thing where the runners go explore the metaplanes. To learn more of the enemy (of Harlequin fame).

What would I like to see?
* More ED connections, I loved them. I have this feeling that I was kind of alone here but I might be wrong.
* More IE super plots where the runners are pawns.

So really what I am saying while I don't generally care for the "normal" adventure books I would like to see a Harlequin III super adventure (or compaing if you will) - The return of Harlequin. Since Dunky is no longer around like he used to be I think Harlequin is the best character we have to play with. I want grand adventures if they should be published, they really should be out of this world. More things tied to "shadowrun history" and not just "normal" runs (whatever that is). Beyond that I prefer hints of possible adventures (also known as hooks) inbedded in text and furter developed by various shadow commentary.

I'd also like to see instead of Mr.Johnsons little black book, I'd like to see Lowfyrs little black book. Perhaps "I, Lowfyr", the dragon explains it all.

While I don't see a need for more Matrix type books, after all there are already more then enough (VR1, VR2, T:M, Matrix + all other books that add a few rules etc). While I prefer the 'trix over Magic somehow magic seems simpler to describe in a "cool" way. A matrix heavy campaign could be fun, unfortunatly not for 4/5 players that are not matrix users or doesn't even have a datajack (as I recall it wasn't overly popular when they where force implanted).

A new enemy can usually spruce things up a bit, the enemy came and went, the bugs have come and gone (?), I didn't much care for the shadim. As noted I like the "invasion from beyond this world" thing (no not little green men from space).

Enough rambling for now ...
i would like to register a strong and immediate countervote to the "more ED links" proposal. ED links usually have the immediate effect of making SR very non-gritty.
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
3.  I would love to see a book dealing with magic on deeper, more interesting level.  Not just a bunch of new spells and adept powers (though anything to give adepts more flavor is always welcome)

I second that.
While I'm more a fan of the "Tech" side of SR, IMO SR3 needs a decent background book for magic.
So far, MitS is just rules - if you don't have the old Awakenings you have very little information about e.g. Voudoun. You have the rules to play a shaman-variant called "houngan" but where's the background?

Just like cyberspace was broken down into rules (Matrix) and background (Target: Matrix) there should be a "Target: Magic" to accompany MitS:
Info about astral space and the metaplanes, background on the various magical traditions (what are their work methods, what makes them unique aside from the sorts of spirits they summon), magic in everyday life (how do mundanes interact with magic users? IMO most people should be either envious or afraid of spellslingers).

My general impression of SR (and that is totally my opinion) is that it is often too much focused on detail with the larger picture missing.
That's why I like books like SoNA and SoE:
They give a larger picture. Of course, the aren't as detailed as a book focused on a single city but the allow a look beyond that city.
What is the country like if the runners leave the city?

Every little piece of information makes the game world more viable and interesting to me.
Ultimately, I would like to see (and I think others share that wish) an official SR worldmap or atlas.
There wouldn't be much information about the various countries in that book due to space but I would simply like to see how the world looks like:
Which of the old countries are left, where have new ones been created? Where did natural disasters or wars change the face of the earth?
Kind of the "CIA World Factbook" SR-Style.

So, what I generally would like to see:
Less rules, more background.
(And in the case of rules they should be very well thought out and tested, not disasters like the weapon or vehicle construction systems.)
Ok, lets start at the beginning: the format. I'd prefer single location books for the simple reason that there'd have to be MORE books, and since I'm a Shadowrun addict, the more the merrier!

That said I have no gripe with the current formats (Shadows of X or Target X).

Regardless of format I'd like to see more "placebooks", I think info on Asia and South America is sorely lacking, Eastern Europe could use some more info too.

Lots of people said they'd like more "gear" I second that. No, we don't need a bigger, badder gun, I'm thinking more of other stuff that could help runners, like image processing software you could use to create incriminating evidence on someone for instance.

The Media! It's been a long time since Shadowbeat and in the Sixth World the media should be quite an influential group. Not just KSAF but everyone else too.

Adepts. Other people have mentioned it already so no point beating a dead horse.

New cyber/bio/nano/etc. However I don't think we need a new , improved version of Move-by-wire, what would be nice would be stuff that a regular person could actually find useful for their office job. Lots of the stuff in M&M is essentially meant for "combat", I think more cosmetic bioware and other "useless" cyber/bio/nano would add lots of flavor.

More when I think of it...
On a Media note I always have a jolly time when I read the shadowrun tv listings (think it last appeared in Sprawl survival guide), it is 8pm and this is what is on biggrin.gif ...

Mmm yes ... now back to the regular postings ...
QUOTE (Hunter)
Personally, I'd like to see more done with bioware. Also, how about more "fluff text"? The thought just struck me that another book like Shadowbeat would be nice to have.

Definately updates for some of the SB stuff - I know that the media/music/sport aspects have been partially covered between SSG and SOTA63 but there's so much more that can be done.

Missing stuff is how the average person interacts with the media (remember the SB bits on which tech is included at different lifestyles - is that is SSG?) and why these things work as they do. From what I hear SSG is a step in the right direction.

One point that I'd make that I think is lost here is that SR is a *very* difficult game to get into - what I'd like to see is reasonably low/street-level pre-gen campaigns that can be used by relative novices and stay away from the metaplot and don't end up with super-characters, but provide a good starting point for new groups (if that makes any sense).

Other than that I think things are pretty good - I think that a lot of the finer details might be better served by semi-official sources (TSS, Wiki maybe, etc). The TSS downtown Seattle edition is a good example of how this can work. As already said there's no commercial viability for such a book so maybe that's the way forward.

Since I absolutely love Harley I'm gonna go with lorg on this one. More IE driven plots (specially those that involve Harlequin). It doesn't have to be that he's out fighting the enemy, but something that involves him. I've been playing/GM:ing SR for many years and one of my fondest memories is GM:ing Harlequin's Back.

And the Target: Magic book sounds great! More info on the different magics that were mentioned in MitS and more on the metaplanes and spirits. And of course adepts.

Maps. Definitely all sorts of maps. I'd like to get more maps of cities (like the ones of Seattle back in 1:st and 2:nd ed.), different buildings and some sort of bigger map over the world (I know about the online version, but I'd love to have a paper version).

More information about the world. Like Shadows of Asia and Middle East. More on South America and Africa (specially Amazonia). And more info on Japan and the emperor.

Pictures. Of vehicles, guns, cyber... you name it. One of my favorite books is the original Rigger book, because of the pics. Though they don't have to be the same size.

Gangs. More about 'em.

Corp stats. I wouldn't mind getting more statistics for the corps that have been mentioned in the books so far.

Probably more that I can't think of right now.

Edit: Like someone mentioned: Making cyberlimbs more attractive than a simple cloned arm. The walk the shadowtalk and the novels presents them you get cyber when you loose an arm/leg because it's cheaper. But that's so far from the truth that it's laughable. No one in my group for the last four years has been interested in cyberlimbs until The Jopp remade the rules and prices.
Skeptical Clown
The first Harlequin was great. He wasn't out to save the world; he was just some bizarre creature out of the ages who was out for revenge, and the players didn't know it until the very end. If they were slow on the uptake, they might STILL never figure it out. This is an example of the fantastic that has adapted successfully to a mostly gritty feel; some of the runs were even pretty nasty.

Harlequin's Back was great too, but in a completely different way, and not in a way that needs to be repeated. HB was a triumph of writing over the fact that the adventure was totally NOT something that fit into Shadowrun at all. Fortunately, by design it's something that nobody really knows happened. We don't need another HB adventure.
QUOTE (mfb)
i would like to register a strong and immediate countervote to the "more ED links" proposal. ED links usually have the immediate effect of making SR very non-gritty.

More gritty ED links, then.

I'm not saying we need another HB adventure (although I don't think I'd mind it too much... as long as it didn't try to copy HB), but rather just one with Harlequin in it using the players in some twisted way. But yeah, if we want it to be more SR, then it should definitely be something more like the original Harlequin campaign (which was also truly awsome).

The best adventures/campaigns written to SR are the two Harlequin ones. And the main reason for that is that they have Harlequin in them.

[ Spoiler ]

Once I went to a costume party dressed as Harlequin and one player started screaming when he saw me and the other one tried to run away. grinbig.gif
If single-location books don't sell well, why not develop a system to "evolve" a local area / town / neighborhood from today's reality to the 2060s ? I'm thinking about advice on deciding what happens to one's own neck of the woods through the Awakening, VITAS, the emergence of megacorps, massive urbanization, etc.. I started playing SR while living outside of Montréal in Québec and thought the sourcebook info was a bit limited, so like a lot of GMs I imitated the existing material to develop a patch of hopeless suburbia that included the town where the players and I lived in real life. I would have loved some guidelines or system to help me do that.

I'm not talking about re-inventing the wheel for countries, large areas and cities which are already covered in various sourcebooks. But having a guide or rules set allowing GMs to "futurize" and personalize their own SmallVille could be a useful tool to attract and retain new players, while providing an even poorer, down-and-out atmosphere. Such local campaigns would probably lead to the characters' relocation to a larger setting (like Seattle) if they manage to outgrow their starting environment, and there could be rules for that too.

I doubt a complete book could be produced out of a concept like this, but it could easily fill out a few chapters somewhere. And apologies if such rules already exist - I haven't updated my stock of sourcebooks in a long while !
As L.D. said, amazonia certainly is one giant black hole. Mentioned alot but never explained.
QUOTE (lorg)
As L.D. said, amazonia certainly is one giant black hole. Mentioned alot but never explained.

You mean, outside of that blurb about holidays in Rio in SOTA:2063, the overview of Sao Paulo-Rio de Janeiro sprawl in the Sprawl Survival Guide and the description of the country's driving forces in Hualpa chapter in Dragons of the Sixth World ?
Pinel, this is exactly the area where TSS and various online collaborations can be successful - areas that otherwise don't get a mention otherwise can be created/amended by anyone - I'd hope that eventually a description /maps / locations are refined and agreed upon to a point where they can be considered canon material. I'd then hope that such stuff could be collated and published (TSS or NAGEE style) - which counters my main issue with wiki (that it never becomes static). Isn't this already happening in some cases?
I'd like to register another vote for more Ed/Horror crossovers. The fact that there was a fourth world is one of the things that make SR different from other cyberpunk games.

I don't see why this is incompatible with more grittiness. Just have it rain all the time. smile.gif
I would like a whole book on SR/ED linkages and Horrors. Perhaps it can be tied with a Magic background book. I do not think that ED/Horror links detract from the grittiness of SR, in fact I think, it adds to it.

I would like a set of adventures like those in First Run or even SR Missions. Not a campaign but just a set of runs for beginning Priority/BP 120 characters without the cyberzombies or Renraku Reds.

Also it may not seem so to you guys in the Western Hemisphere but most of the Middle East is in Asia. And so is much of Russia too. Shadows of Asia should be one huge bang of a book - China did balkanise into the patchwork resembling North America and combined with all the smaller countries in South and South East Asia (Indonesia is another country just waiting to blow apart).
Geography is tricky. After all where does one start and the other begin, Europe is supposed to be from the atlantic coasts in the west to the ural mountains in russia in the east. The north/south axis is a bit harder, north ain't that hard but how far south does it go? Turkey? Beyond that?

If SoE was big just imagine how big that book would be if we would have "ALL" of asia in it, it would be a two volume book atleast, each as thick as the BBB. I'd prefer a Mid East one and Far east (if you will) and then one of Eastern Europe, and one for SA and another for Africa (which also would cut into the mid east book, after all Egypt might get covered in both).

First run, isn't that what the "stuffer shack" run is for? buying crap and shooting gangers ? smile.gif
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