Full Version: Ask tisoz about SR4
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| When was Colloton elected? (BTW, she's a Major General by the time of State of the Art). |
2068
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| ....Sustaining, binding and weapon foci are 10K*F....... |
Sweet mother of Mary, that is a damn substantial price drop for weapon foci. Even at a limit of Force 2 at char gen that is a rise from the effective chargen limit SR3 imposed.
| QUOTE (tisoz) | ||
2068 |
*Tents fingers*
Excellent.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 21 2005, 02:55 AM) | ||||||
Page 161 in State of the Art. Did a search for it in Loose Alliances, though, and Acrobat didn't find anything.
Yes, but BattleTac still requires you to use your Small Unit Tactics skill to give your teammates a bonus, whereas a Tactical Computer gives it to you inherently. He described it as a tactical program, but if it works exactly how he described (which surely isn't set in stone) then it's a combination of the two because the way he described it, the program gives the bonus to linked teammates. |
problem is that he could have forgotten about some test needed to be done for the teammate help or similar.
ill say we wait until someone have a book with the final writeup of said equipment and then try to figure out who is right.
mixing up the tac comp with battletac so that you have it as a soft on your comlink and able to autolink between teammates comlinks sounds like one hell of a soft to me.
hell, it may even increase in effectiveness depening on how many comlinks are linked at a very sharp angle
why? every unit now prosess the data and share data with each other. link this up and you have a virtual super computer
time will tell...
Yeah. We'll see.
Anyway, I was thinking of something similar. Given the basic facts, a group of Technomancers could effectively act in the same seamless telepathic coordination on their own little "Technomancer wavelength" as the Flesh Form Mafioso did in Shadows of Europe against the Albanians(?). Well, excepting the initiative boost insect spirits get. Until they get some sort of BattleTac/Tactical Computer-styled Complex Form that can boost Initiative. Then, hell yeah, it's game on.
Anyway, I was thinking of something similar. Given the basic facts, a group of Technomancers could effectively act in the same seamless telepathic coordination on their own little "Technomancer wavelength" as the Flesh Form Mafioso did in Shadows of Europe against the Albanians(?). Well, excepting the initiative boost insect spirits get. Until they get some sort of BattleTac/Tactical Computer-styled Complex Form that can boost Initiative. Then, hell yeah, it's game on.
| QUOTE (tisoz) | ||
Magic Attribute. |
Thank you
| QUOTE (Toa) |
| How does Regeneration work now? Does it heal stun damage? |
Regeneration rapidly heals any damage. A Magic + Body test is made at the end of the combat turn, and any hits on this test regenerates 1 point of Physical OR Stun damage (I don't know how one would decide, other than picking the "best" configuration based on wound penalties). If a critter takes Physical damage into Overflow, they still get to make a Regeneration test at the end of the combat turn. After the Regeneration test is made, if the overflow is greater than the Body attribute, the critter dies (this is the same as any PC, NPC, or critter).
Damage to brain or spinal cord cannot be healed, and magical damage from weapon foci, combat spells, critter/adept powers, or other magic cannot be healed. If the critter is affected by an Allergy, they cannot regenerate until the allergen is removed (so start blowing that sawdust at Vampires).
| QUOTE |
| What skills belong to the Athletics group, the Electronics group and the Mechanic group? (Actually I would love to see the full list of active skills, but I won't ask that of you.) |
I'll bite:
Athletics - Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming
Biotech - Cybertechnology, First Aid, Medicine
Close Combat - Blades, Clubs, Unarmed Combat (Note: Exotic Melee Weapon is NOT in any group. Also, Cyberimplant combat has been folded into the other weapon skills, like Unarmed and Blades)
Conjuring - Banishing, Binding, Summoning
Cracking - Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking
Electronics - Computer, Data Search, Hardware, Software
Firearms - Automatics, Longarms, Pistols (Note: Exotic Ranged Weapon is NOT in any group)
Influence - Con, Etiquette, Leadership, Negotiation
Mechanic - Aeronautics Mechanic, Automotive Mechanic, Industrial Mechanic, Nautical Mechanic
Outdoors - Navigation, Survival, Tracking
Sorcery - Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, Spellcasting
Stealth - Disguise, Infiltration, Palming, Shadowing
Tasking - Compiling, Decompiling, Registering
No Skill Group - Archery, Armorer, Artisan, Assensing, Astral Combat, Demolitions, Diving, Dodge, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gunnery, Heavy Weapons, Instruction, Intimidation, Locksmith, Parachuting, Perception, Pilot Aerospace, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Anthroform, Pilot Exotic Vehicle, Pilot Ground Craft, Pilot Watercraft, Throwing Weapons, and all Knowledge Skills.
I may have missed a few up there, but I'm working off of two different tables.
Athletics - Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming
Biotech - Cybertechnology, First Aid, Medicine
Close Combat - Blades, Clubs, Unarmed Combat (Note: Exotic Melee Weapon is NOT in any group. Also, Cyberimplant combat has been folded into the other weapon skills, like Unarmed and Blades)
Conjuring - Banishing, Binding, Summoning
Cracking - Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking
Electronics - Computer, Data Search, Hardware, Software
Firearms - Automatics, Longarms, Pistols (Note: Exotic Ranged Weapon is NOT in any group)
Influence - Con, Etiquette, Leadership, Negotiation
Mechanic - Aeronautics Mechanic, Automotive Mechanic, Industrial Mechanic, Nautical Mechanic
Outdoors - Navigation, Survival, Tracking
Sorcery - Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, Spellcasting
Stealth - Disguise, Infiltration, Palming, Shadowing
Tasking - Compiling, Decompiling, Registering
No Skill Group - Archery, Armorer, Artisan, Assensing, Astral Combat, Demolitions, Diving, Dodge, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gunnery, Heavy Weapons, Instruction, Intimidation, Locksmith, Parachuting, Perception, Pilot Aerospace, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Anthroform, Pilot Exotic Vehicle, Pilot Ground Craft, Pilot Watercraft, Throwing Weapons, and all Knowledge Skills.
I may have missed a few up there, but I'm working off of two different tables.
| QUOTE |
| Does the adept still buy powers with his magic rating? How are the power costs compared to third edition? |
Yes. Some powers have been adjusted. Astral Perception costs only 1 point. Killing Hands costs 0.5 points, but only converts your damage from Stun to Physical and your hands count as magical weapons for the purpose of kicking butt (bypassing Immunity to Normal Weapons and Regeneration). For higher damage, you want Critical Strike (0.25 points per level), which adds +1 DV per level. Improved Ability works pretty much the same... +1 die for 0.5 for Combat skills, and +1 die for 0.25 for everything else. Missile Parry is 0.25 per level, and is now a Reaction + Missile Parry test, requiring more hits than the attacker to successfully parry.
Considering all those 'exotic <skill>' skills, the question raises: is the skill system for active skills still open, or closed?
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Considering all those 'exotic <skill>' skills, the question raises: is the skill system for active skills still open, or closed? |
Well, the one skill that I wanted for my character (Horseback Riding) doesn't exist. Just judging from the list of skills, I'd say Active Skills are a closed system, but as usual, you can House-Rule anything. The Exotic Weapon thingummy is there to allow for all of those weird weapons that keep popping up, like gyrojet pistols and the like.
Thx - well I then guess, that riding a horse will be covered by 'Pilot Exotic Vehicle'
BTW... do skillwires provide real skills (dicepool skill+attribute), or justs dicepools of the rating?
BTW... do skillwires provide real skills (dicepool skill+attribute), or justs dicepools of the rating?
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| BTW... do skillwires provide real skills (dicepool skill+attribute), or justs dicepools of the rating? |
Skillwires/softs are interesting. First of all, there is a hard cap on Active and Knowledge skillsofts, with 4 for Activesofts and 5 for Knowledge/Linguasofts. Second, you use the higher rating (either the user's skill or the skillsoft's rating). Finally, if you use the skillsoft's rating, you cannot augment it by using Edge (ouch). It follows the standard rules for skill tests (Skill + Attribute vs. threshold).
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Cracking - Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking |
hey, nice. they got the label right
Ouch, indeed (twice, as edge isn't infinite, and skillwire in any non-edge situation is now as good as the real thing)... do Know/Lingua-Softs now require skillwire, too?
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Ouch, indeed (twice, as edge isn't infinite, and skillwire in any non-edge situation is now as good as the real thing)... do Know/Lingua-Softs now require skillwire, too? |
Erm, what I meant was that you won't be able to boost the skillsoft using Edge, which may make it a bit of a liability (that Rule of Six thing comes in handy, not to mention the ability to add Edge dice AFTER you've already rolled... then there are the rerolls of failures and negating glitches and such). Know/Linguasofts don't need skillwires.
Thx, got that.
Considering the ability to buy positive qualities with karma and awakening being a positive quality... is it now possible for a mundane to spend karma to become a mage/adept/technomaner?
Considering the ability to buy positive qualities with karma and awakening being a positive quality... is it now possible for a mundane to spend karma to become a mage/adept/technomaner?
It's GM's discretion as far as what qualities can be worked off/bought, but there is specific text that says that Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, and Technomancer may not be awarded for Karma. *shrugs* It's up to your GM, I guess.
I personally would only allow it if the character did not have any cyber/bioware at all (Essence of 6), as suddenly "gaining" a point of Magic/Resonance in the middle of play would only result in the character immediately becoming a Burnout from losing the point due to cyber/bioware. Of course, the player would have to have a great roleplaying reason for the ability to do this (jacked into a UV host and tortured or something).
I personally would only allow it if the character did not have any cyber/bioware at all (Essence of 6), as suddenly "gaining" a point of Magic/Resonance in the middle of play would only result in the character immediately becoming a Burnout from losing the point due to cyber/bioware. Of course, the player would have to have a great roleplaying reason for the ability to do this (jacked into a UV host and tortured or something).
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Mystic Adept |
huh? so the magical adept is part of the BBB now?
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) | ||
huh? so the magical adept is part of the BBB now? |
Yup. Magician's Way, Physical Mage, whatever you want to call it. It's in there. And they aren't nearly as gimped as they used to be under the old SR3 canon rules.
Any reduction of magic when a character gets cyberware implanted? How does that work with the variable magic attribute?
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||||
Yup. Magician's Way, Physical Mage, whatever you want to call it. It's in there. And they aren't nearly as gimped as they used to be under the old SR3 canon rules. |
i dont consider the SR3 version gimped, so this can get nasty
| QUOTE (Samoth) |
| Any reduction of magic when a character gets cyberware implanted? How does that work with the variable magic attribute? |
Same as always. If you have 5.0 to 5.99 Essence, you lose a point of magic. If you reach 0 Magic, you burnout and are no longer Awakened. So say you had a natural Magic of 4 (and a max Magic of 6, just like every character) with an essence of 6, and you want to install a commlink. You lose 0.2 essence, bringing you down to 5.8 Essence, but you also lose a point of Magic (down to 3) and a point from your Max Magic (down to 5). If later, you install a cyberhand (0.25 Essence), it brings your Essence down to 5.55, but you don't lose another point of magic until you go below 5.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| i dont consider the SR3 version gimped, so this can get nasty |
The initiation rules as printed in Magic in the Shadows were gimped, at any rate. Most people didn't follow the Shadowrun FAQ or the printed rules because they penalized the Magician's Way adept so heavily. The SR4 version is a lot more versatile, and gets the full benefit of initiation.
i dont think burnouts are mundane, more like they are unable to do magic without taking great risks to themselfs. atleast thats the image i have gotten past SR3. pre it may well have been a diffrent matter...
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||
Same as always. If you have 5.0 to 5.99 Essence, you lose a point of magic. If you reach 0 Magic, you burnout and are no longer Awakened. So say you had a natural Magic of 4 (and a max Magic of 6, just like every character) with an essence of 6, and you want to install a commlink. You lose 0.2 essence, bringing you down to 5.8 Essence, but you also lose a point of Magic (down to 3) and a point from your Max Magic (down to 5). If later, you install a cyberhand (0.25 Essence), it brings your Essence down to 5.55, but you don't lose another point of magic until you go below 5. |
Ok, then how do you figure out rasing your magic attribute after that? Would you pay to have it raised to 5 (increasing the previous base) or to 4 (since your att. is now 3 thanks to the cyber?)
Or does each level cost the same karma no matter what?
| QUOTE (Samoth) |
| Ok, then how do you figure out rasing your magic attribute after that? Would you pay to have it raised to 5 (increasing the previous base) or to 4 (since your att. is now 3 thanks to the cyber?) Or does each level cost the same karma no matter what? |
I can't say conclusively, based on the rules I'm reading here. It appears to be simply New Attribute Level x 3, regardless if you've incurred Essence Losses or whatnot, and I don't see any "special" rules based on that circumstance. That's something that will probably have to go up on the FAQ eventually.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| i dont think burnouts are mundane, more like they are unable to do magic without taking great risks to themselfs. atleast thats the image i have gotten past SR3. pre it may well have been a diffrent matter... |
Well, SR4 refers to losing magical ability completely as being "burned out", so I was using that nomenclature (mostly because I was reading that page while writing my post). But you are correct, in SR3 "burnouts" are simply folks who are on their way to burning out their magic completely, not the mundanes who were Awakened before.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||
The initiation rules as printed in Magic in the Shadows were gimped, at any rate. Most people didn't follow the Shadowrun FAQ or the printed rules because they penalized the Magician's Way adept so heavily. The SR4 version is a lot more versatile, and gets the full benefit of initiation. |
Can I have a HALLELUJAH, oh yeah!
*chorus of hallelujah in the background*
Can someone tell us some nice stories about hackers (both the decker/rigger-way)? The german board would be grateful. 
SYL
SYL
1. thanx for all the info provided so far.
2. about mystic adepts, can you give some more details e.g.: will they be able to buy powerpoints with karma?
3.vehicles: are vehicle stats still the same, or will i have to convert all my creations, once rigger 4 (?) comes out? what about the firmpoint, hardpoint rules, which were, at least in my opinion, very unrealistic?
4. will it be possible to hardwire ones equipment? i kinda dislike the idea that hacker xy-i'am-a-giant-fruitcake hacks my stuff (imagine, your guns clip dropping out, thanx to wireless smartlink)
2. about mystic adepts, can you give some more details e.g.: will they be able to buy powerpoints with karma?
3.vehicles: are vehicle stats still the same, or will i have to convert all my creations, once rigger 4 (?) comes out? what about the firmpoint, hardpoint rules, which were, at least in my opinion, very unrealistic?
4. will it be possible to hardwire ones equipment? i kinda dislike the idea that hacker xy-i'am-a-giant-fruitcake hacks my stuff (imagine, your guns clip dropping out, thanx to wireless smartlink)
| QUOTE |
| at least in my opinion, very unrealistic? |
Not only in your opinion ...
| QUOTE |
4. will it be possible to hardwire ones equipment? |
Well, it must be possible, at least in theory. Wireless-LAN, Radio-Communication etc is nothing which cannot be replaced by cable.
SYL
How does the adept power Improved Physical Attribute work in SR4? Given the greater value of attributes I would guess that the cost has been increased?
(Also: A big thank you to tisoz, hahnsoo and everyone else helping to alleviate the pdf-abstinence.)
(Also: A big thank you to tisoz, hahnsoo and everyone else helping to alleviate the pdf-abstinence.)
What drugs are listed in BBB, what do they do, and do they have real life equivlents like M&M,
BTW you guys reading the book to us unwashed masses rule, it's like kindergarten story time
BTW you guys reading the book to us unwashed masses rule, it's like kindergarten story time
| QUOTE (maeel) |
| 2. about mystic adepts, can you give some more details e.g.: will they be able to buy powerpoints with karma? |
You buy Magic Attribute, just like all other Adepts (while you still have "power points", it is always equal to your Magic attribute), and then decide if you want it to apply to your Magician powers or your Adept Powers. Basically, you just put another point into "Magic Ability". Adepts no longer can outright "buy" Power Points, and they must buy Magic Attribute just like all other Awakened. Oh, here's an interesting thought: You can make the equivalent of Aspected Magicians by picking Mystic Adept and then purchasing Astral Perception and 1-5 points of Magic Ability with no adept powers. Neat, huh?
| QUOTE |
| 4. will it be possible to hardwire ones equipment? i kinda dislike the idea that hacker xy-i'am-a-giant-fruitcake hacks my stuff (imagine, your guns clip dropping out, thanx to wireless smartlink) |
Definitely yes. I think the main thing that is mostly wireless is access to the Matrix and the cellular infrastructure of AR/VR Matrix 2.0. There are several options to hardwire equipment for most things, although some electronics are simply too small or unwieldy to adapt to a non-wireless version (Contact Lenses come to mind).
| QUOTE (Magnus Jakobsson) |
| How does the adept power Improved Physical Attribute work in SR4? Given the greater value of attributes I would guess that the cost has been increased? |
Nope. It's the same, 1 point per attribute point up to Racial Max, and then 2 points per point above the Racial Max up to the maximum augmented attribute (the hard cap).
What about MegaPulse and how large data is?
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| What drugs are listed in BBB, what do they do, and do they have real life equivlents like M&M, |
Here's my list:
Bliss, Cram, Deepweed, Jazz, Kamikaze, Long Haul, Nitro, Novacoke, Psyche, Zen, CS/Tear Gas, Gamma-Scopolamine, Narcoject, Nausea Gas, Neuro-Stun, Pepper Punch
So basically, it's the same. A few are missing (Arsenic, Green Ring, etc.), but I'm sure someone can retrofit some stats.
| QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 21 2005, 03:52 PM) |
| What about MegaPulse and how large data is? |
Ooo, good question: In SR4, memory technology is considered to be so advanced that your devices are automatically assumed to have more than you'll ever need to use. Also, you would have wireless instant access to remote data storage at the same time. Thus, in terms of game mechanics, you never really worry about how much Mp you need to use. This is subject to GM fiat, of course (You can't download the Library of Congress into your Ares Predator IV's internal storage).
active memory is measured in rating points. storage memory is unlimited, unless the GM decides there are limits in a special situation.
Any news on the change to Rigging at all? How much cyber is needed? Are the vehicles sensible on their Economy*Fuel? and finally is there a decent set of rules for crafting/repairing things?
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for reading.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||
Here's my list: Bliss, Cram, Deepweed, Jazz, Kamikaze, Long Haul, Nitro, Novacoke, Psyche, Zen, CS/Tear Gas, Gamma-Scopolamine, Narcoject, Nausea Gas, Neuro-Stun, Pepper Punch So basically, it's the same. A few are missing (Arsenic, Green Ring, etc.), but I'm sure someone can retrofit some stats. |
I'm surpised some real world equivlent of ecstasy wasn't added.
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| I'm surpised some real world equivlent of ecstasy wasn't added. |
There's only so much room, and this book crams a TON of stuff in.
You can simulate the effects using the rules for BTLs, anyway.| QUOTE |
| Any news on the change to Rigging at all? How much cyber is needed? Are the vehicles sensible on their Economy*Fuel? and finally is there a decent set of rules for crafting/repairing things? Thanks for reading. |
I'll have to get back to you on that. The Rigging rules are completely abstract and there are some enormous differences. I can tell you that when you are shot at, you defend using Reaction (just like in regular ranged combat) + Handling, and if you are using the Rigging equivalent of Full Defense, you also get your Vehicle skill added. Drones use Pilot (their AI software) + Handling.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||||
There's only so much room, and this book crams a TON of stuff in. You can simulate the effects using the rules for BTLs, anyway.
I'll have to get back to you on that. The Rigging rules are completely abstract and there are some enormous differences. I can tell you that when you are shot at, you defend using Reaction (just like in regular ranged combat) + Handling, and if you are using the Rigging equivalent of Full Defense, you also get your Vehicle skill added. Drones use Pilot (their AI software) + Handling. |
I can't wait to see the book, how much karma do I have to pay to reduce my ettiqute test TN?
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| I'm surpised some real world equivlent of ecstasy wasn't added. |
What, out of interest, do you see the other drugs being equivalent to?
~J
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| I can't wait to see the book, how much karma do I have to pay to reduce my ettiqute test TN? |
Heh. The TN is always 5, dude.
oh, shit, kage's posting in a thread where they've described the rigging rules. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T LOOK, KAGETENSHI! IT WILL DESTROY YOU!
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| oh, shit, kage's posting in a thread where they've described the rigging rules. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T LOOK, KAGETENSHI! IT WILL DESTROY YOU! |
Hehehe. You know I was thinking we should actually start up a thread for each of the archetypes
Neat deliniation and all.
Wait, where? And why did Hahnsoo make a blank post?
~J
~J
whatever you do, don't make an Observe in Detail action.
The set of rules we had, with playtesting, strongly emphasized how magic and technomancy were going to have a convenient built-in mechanic for acquiring them and developing them after creation. However, the issue with loss of Essence directly impacting Magic/Resonance (rather than indirectly impacting via reducing the maximums for those attributes) caused that "instant burnout" scenario for characters who have any cyberware at all, and purchase either technomancer or awakened qualities. Making in-play purchase of those abilities impossible was probably a fix for the instant-burnout scenario. Another fix might be to force the costs, for cybered characters, to factor in instantly purchasing enough points in Magic or Resonance to cover the loss.
I still really dislike the idea that technomancers, who are supposedly more connected to the technological world than anyone else, base all their powers on a cyberphobic Essence-linked attribute. Unless a lot of things that were headware before are now portable noncybernetics (which makes one wonder why they would have been implanted as standard practice in the first place), there will be a number of augmentations that help technomancers directly with the activity, hacking, that is the focus of their abilities. However, despite this, acquiring these pieces of cyberware will reduce their overall power.
I still really dislike the idea that technomancers, who are supposedly more connected to the technological world than anyone else, base all their powers on a cyberphobic Essence-linked attribute. Unless a lot of things that were headware before are now portable noncybernetics (which makes one wonder why they would have been implanted as standard practice in the first place), there will be a number of augmentations that help technomancers directly with the activity, hacking, that is the focus of their abilities. However, despite this, acquiring these pieces of cyberware will reduce their overall power.
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