Full Version: Ask tisoz about SR4
I didn't see it either. My perception skill must be lacking.
| QUOTE |
| I'll have to get back to you on that. The Rigging rules are completely abstract and there are some enormous differences. I can tell you that when you are shot at, you defend using Reaction (just like in regular ranged combat) + Handling, and if you are using the Rigging equivalent of Full Defense, you also get your Vehicle skill added. Drones use Pilot (their AI software) + Handling. |
now, that's gonna turn all the vehicles, i've created so far, to some damn crap.
whats the max handling rating for vehicles? do other vehicle attr. differ from SR.
any comments about the possibility of a conversion? how many vehicles are there in the core book anyway?
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| You buy Magic Attribute, just like all other Adepts (while you still have "power points", it is always equal to your Magic attribute), and then decide if you want it to apply to your Magician powers or your Adept Powers. Basically, you just put another point into "Magic Ability". Adepts no longer can outright "buy" Power Points, and they must buy Magic Attribute just like all other Awakened. Oh, here's an interesting thought: You can make the equivalent of Aspected Magicians by picking Mystic Adept and then purchasing Astral Perception and 1-5 points of Magic Ability with no adept powers. Neat, huh? |
so, just that i get you right, physical adepts will not be able to buy one powerpoint with 20 karma ? wow, unless adept powers cost have been decreased drastically that's gonna be a serious blow for adept players, if initiation ist still as expensive as it was, compared to karma earned etc. of course.
| QUOTE (maeel) | ||
so, just that i get you right, physical adepts will not be able to buy one powerpoint with 20 karma ? wow, unless adept powers cost have been decreased drastically that's gonna be a serious blow for adept players, if initiation ist still as expensive as it was, compared to karma earned etc. of course. |
Well, from the sound of it, Adepts who have not yet maxed out their Magic attribute can simply buy it up as per a regular Attribute. Once you max out, you have to initiate like everyone else.
| QUOTE (Kesh) | ||||
Well, from the sound of it, Adepts who have not yet maxed out their Magic attribute can simply buy it up as per a regular Attribute. Once you max out, you have to initiate like everyone else. |
It also sounds like the first 3 grades are cheaper than 20 points, so until you go for your 7th grade you are about even with before.
Plus hopefully there are at least a couple metamagics in the BBB that are applicable to Adepts.
P.S. Can you still geas magic lost from essense loss?
There are no rules for geasa, but you can just buy back lost magic points.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kesh) |
| Well, from the sound of it, Adepts who have not yet maxed out their Magic attribute can simply buy it up as per a regular Attribute. |
So far, so good
| QUOTE |
| Once you max out, you have to initiate like everyone else. |
As I understand it, mages do not have to initiate to gain new spells ... (just as in SR3)
And that was one of the reasons that the 20 karma rule in SR3 was installed in the first place: To provide adepts with a way of expanding their powers without initiation ... If a similar mechanic doesn't exist in SR4 that'll be my second "really bad decision" on my personal list.
SR3 had the 20-karma rule to provide a means of expanding powers without initiative not because it was desirable in and of itself that initiation be unnecessary, but because initiation was not in the core book.
~J
~J
Adepts can expand their powers, but it requires buying higher levels of Magic Attribute, which can only be facilitated by initiation (since the only way you can have a Magic Attribute above 6 is to initiate).
I'm not fond of the 20 Karma = 1 Power Point mechanic, but it's necessary in games with no Initiation rules. In practice, our group has never had any character "buy" a power point, as we've never been without Initiation rules.
I'm not fond of the 20 Karma = 1 Power Point mechanic, but it's necessary in games with no Initiation rules. In practice, our group has never had any character "buy" a power point, as we've never been without Initiation rules.
I like the 20-Rule even with Initiation: mages do not have to initiate to get new spells, so why should adepts have to initiate to get new powers?
SYL
SYL
Well, getting the power is one thing. Actually being able to use it (and your other powers at a similar time) is another thing.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| SR3 had the 20-karma rule to provide a means of expanding powers without initiative not because it was desirable in and of itself that initiation be unnecessary, but because initiation was not in the core book. ~J |
You failed to see the main point:
If a similar mechanic doesn't exist in SR4, we're back to the point where adepts can only expand their abilities via initiation upon reaching max magic attribute while magicians can do so without.
That was what sucked bigtime in SR2 and was changed in SR3 ... So going back to the SR2 state of affairs is one big "bad choice" on my list and will remain there unless someone comes along and tells me that SR4 does know a similar mechanic.
Having to plan two houserules (the other one concerns Drain) before I even opened my SR4 book for the first time, is something that surely doesn't make me feel comfortable with the new system ...
And just to avoid the argument concerning SR3: I do know what the FAQ suggested for SR3, yet that sugestion missed that particular point of mages expanding their "powers" without initiation as well ... Additionally there was no basis within the rules as written for denying adepts to buy additional powers via 20 karma, once the initiation rules came into play ...
personally, i don't consider the missing 20 karma for powerpoint rule a drama.
adepts are still superior to sams, but not as powerfull as mages, for a good reason.
what really interests me is wether they've changed other vehicle attr. than handling or not.
and seriously i dont see, why it is now reaction+ handling, reaction+skill, would've more steamlined + I wouldn't have to convert all the vehicles i've created so far
adepts are still superior to sams, but not as powerfull as mages, for a good reason.
what really interests me is wether they've changed other vehicle attr. than handling or not.
and seriously i dont see, why it is now reaction+ handling, reaction+skill, would've more steamlined + I wouldn't have to convert all the vehicles i've created so far
| QUOTE (maeel) |
| personally, i don't consider the missing 20 karma for powerpoint rule a drama. |
I wouldn't call it a "drama" ... It's simply a big setback in a system that claims to improve SR3 in places where SR3 didn't improve in comparison to SR2 ...
Although I'm already "addicted to SR" and thus already ordered my core rules, I'm still looking for the things that actually inspire me to play SR 4 and simultaniously I'm also looking for things that are a "turn off" ... This happens to be one of two negative ones that I found so far ... Others might follow ...
Just as you have your own beefs with the need to convert all your self created vehicles ...
I'd like to start by thanking everybody that has been answering questions about SR4. Without a doubt you have done a great deal to make me comfortable with the edition and have sold me on the new rulebook. So once again, a very big thank you to everyone.
I am curious about how Counterspelling works now. Is it similar to Spell Defense from SR3, or has it changed dramatically? My other magic question has to do with Ritual Spellcasting. Somebody mentioned that they were going to be using it constantly now with the changes in SR4. When I run a mage character instead of GM, I already make a lot of use of it. Even as a solo mage, being able to use it to sustain a spell is pretty handy.
Also, it's been explained that Riggers and Deckers are now combined into Hackers. It appears that the only cyberware a Hacker needs to have their way with a wireless network is the Comlink. Does a Hacker need any additional cyber to be an effective "Rigger?"
*EDIT* Also, I noticed that Shielding is one of the core rules Metamagics, how does it work now?
I am curious about how Counterspelling works now. Is it similar to Spell Defense from SR3, or has it changed dramatically? My other magic question has to do with Ritual Spellcasting. Somebody mentioned that they were going to be using it constantly now with the changes in SR4. When I run a mage character instead of GM, I already make a lot of use of it. Even as a solo mage, being able to use it to sustain a spell is pretty handy.
Also, it's been explained that Riggers and Deckers are now combined into Hackers. It appears that the only cyberware a Hacker needs to have their way with a wireless network is the Comlink. Does a Hacker need any additional cyber to be an effective "Rigger?"
*EDIT* Also, I noticed that Shielding is one of the core rules Metamagics, how does it work now?
Rob mentionend during the origins interview that commlink programms can give you extra dices for some tasks. Can someone 1) confirm that and 2) give some examples (the tasks would be very interesting).
SYL
SYL
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||
Definitely yes. I think the main thing that is mostly wireless is access to the Matrix and the cellular infrastructure of AR/VR Matrix 2.0. There are several options to hardwire equipment for most things, although some electronics are simply too small or unwieldy to adapt to a non-wireless version (Contact Lenses come to mind). |
With all of these people running around with wireless contact lenses, I hope there are more people who end with with infections and scarring on their corneas.
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||||
With all of these people running around with wireless contact lenses, I hope there are more people who end with with infections and scarring on their corneas. |
U R gest a H8R!
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Drain value is F/2, round down, =/- modifiers, minimum of 1. Roll Willpower + Charisma for shamans or willpower + Logic for mages. Each hit reduces Drain Value by 1, wound modifiers and sustained spells do not effect drain test. |
So, maybe I missed this somewhere else, but is there a max force you can cast your spell at? For example, the magic attribute? or the spellcasting skill?
If not, then I could cast a force ten spell, and only take at most 5 boxes of damage....even if it is physical damage because the force is above my magic attribute.
Sounds kind of ......crazy....
Or I am misreading something.
Derek
Double Magic.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||||
With all of these people running around with wireless contact lenses, I hope there are more people who end with with infections and scarring on their corneas. |
So, does that mena, Bluetooth is now Blueeye?
Derek
| QUOTE (Derek) |
| So, maybe I missed this somewhere else, but is there a max force you can cast your spell at? For example, the magic attribute? or the spellcasting skill? |
Maximum Force is Magic Rating x 2.
| QUOTE |
| If not, then I could cast a force ten spell, and only take at most 5 boxes of damage....even if it is physical damage because the force is above my magic attribute. |
This is correct. Welcome to the wide world of "overcasting", which probably will be a lot more popular in SR4.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Double Magic. ~J |
So with a 5 magic, I could toss TWO force 10 hellballs (or whatever they are called now) before I am down for the count, assuming I make NO hits on my drain resist roll.
Ouch.
Who was it that said mages are gimped?
Derek
How work vehicle rules? (not necessary rigging rules)
| QUOTE (Derek) | ||
So with a 5 magic, I could toss TWO force 10 hellballs (or whatever they are called now) before I am down for the count, assuming I make NO hits on my drain resist roll. Ouch. Who was it that said mages are gimped? Derek |
So killing yourself doing pehaps massive damage counts?
Edge may be awarded during gameplay, replenishing spent edge.
Burn a point of edge to - get a success, if the character can carry out the action. - to escape certain death, make it sound like HoG.
I have a question - is reach still in the game?
I would suppose that if it is, your troll with a polearm would get 3 extra dice when fighting Mr Kung Fu.
Also, what stat is hitting people with melee weapons generally linked to, strength or agility?
I would suppose that if it is, your troll with a polearm would get 3 extra dice when fighting Mr Kung Fu.
Also, what stat is hitting people with melee weapons generally linked to, strength or agility?
| QUOTE |
| Q. What are the skill groups? Athletics: Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming Biotech: Cybertechnology, First Aid, Medicine Close Combat: Blades, Clubs, Unarmed Combat (Note: Exotic Melee Weapon is NOT in any group. Also, Cyberimplant combat has been folded into the other weapon skills, like Unarmed and Blades) Conjuring: Banishing, Binding, Summoning Cracking: Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking Electronics: Computer, Data Search, Hardware, Software Firearms - Automatics, Longarms, Pistols (Note: Exotic Ranged Weapon is NOT in any group) Influence: Con, Etiquette, Leadership, Negotiation Mechanic: Aeronautics Mechanic, Automotive Mechanic, Industrial Mechanic, Nautical Mechanic Outdoors: Navigation, Survival, Tracking Sorcery: Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, Spellcasting Stealth: Disguise, Infiltration, Palming, Shadowing Tasking: Compiling, Decompiling, Registering Q. Which skills don't fall into a skill group? Archery, Armorer, Artisan, Assensing, Astral Combat, Demolitions, Diving, Dodge, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gunnery, Heavy Weapons, Instruction, Intimidation, Locksmith, Parachuting, Perception, Pilot Aerospace, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Anthroform, Pilot Exotic Vehicle, Pilot Ground Craft, Pilot Watercraft, Throwing Weapons, and all Knowledge Skills. |
mmh, 'pilot anthroform', they didn't put an exosuit for combat in there accidentially, did they?
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||
U R gest a H8R! |
well, since I will probably never wear contacts again, then yes, I guess I am.
| QUOTE (Gort) |
| I have a question - is reach still in the game? |
Yes.
| QUOTE |
| Also, what stat is hitting people with melee weapons generally linked to, strength or agility? |
Looks like agility. Blades, clubs, exotic melee weapon and unarmed.
| QUOTE (apple) |
| Rob mentionend during the origins interview that commlink programms can give you extra dices for some tasks. Can someone 1) confirm that and 2) give some examples (the tasks would be very interesting). SYL |
There aren't any hard and fast rules yet. Rob has said in the seminars that Unwired (the tentative title for the new Matrix book) will cover more specific rules and guidelines.
For now, there's a couple paragraphs about AR modifiers in a sidebar. Basically anytime you're performing a task and being able to access helpful info could aid you in that task, the GM may give you bonus dice, suggested from 1-3. One example of this that Rob gave at Origins was doing Vehicle Repair, and having a diagnostic or repair manual on your AR display.
You can also use the wireless AR to basically replace BattleTac. If you and your whole team is linked up, you can feed the data of your positiosn and the opponents into it, and maybe get bonus Initiative dice next turn.
Of course, it's also possible that if you get hacked, false data could be fed to you as well, giving you negative dice.
Either way, the exact effect is up to the GM and how he wants to apply it.
Bull
| QUOTE (Derek) |
| So, does that mena, Bluetooth is now Blueeye? Derek |
Is that like pinkeye?
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