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tisoz
If you have some questions about SR4 I will try to answer them.
JongWK
Did heard anything new about the Limited Edition? (i.e., will it make it for the weekend)

Can you give people stats for a standard piece cyberware? (say, the much beloved Wired Reflexes 2)

How about a list of the megas? (not asking you to leak the plot surprises, just name them)
Kagetenshi
How are shot rounds for shotguns treated?

~J
Serbitar
What does the "P" in the 5P of the Predator mean ?

Can you give us a short example calculation of a shot ? (Complete with hitting, dodging and resisting damage)
blakkie
Will it make my teeth whiter? biggrin.gif

Also, did they leave out equipment weights?
JongWK
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 19 2005, 08:33 PM)
What does the "P" in the 5P of the Predator mean ?

The "P" stands for Physical. "S" is for Stun.
chevalier_neon
Yes, I have only two questions (so far) :
- What is your think about the art in the book (I know it is subjective, and that what I might like could look aweful for you and vice versa), but I would have liked to have an opinion...
- More details if you could on the differences between hackers and technomancers as you have already addressed magicians, and cyber...

Many thanks in advance, and of course, don't feel obliged, just if you have some time.
Serbitar
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 19 2005, 08:33 PM)
What does the "P" in the 5P of the Predator mean ?

The "P" stands for Physical. "S" is for Stun.

So, how much base damageboxes does a 5P Predator with AP -1 to a 6/4 lined coat ? zero ?
Darkness
How's the BP cost for the different races now?
JongWK
1) The coat would add 5 (not 6) dice to the resistance roll.

2) Base damage would be the DV + net hits on attack test, minus hits on resistance test.
chevalier_neon
@ darkness : already given. If I can remember ) for a human, 20 for an ork, 25 for a dwarf, 30 for an elf and 40 for a troll
tisoz
QUOTE (JongWK)
Did heard anything new about the Limited Edition? (i.e., will it make it for the weekend)

Are you going?

QUOTE
Can you give people stats for a standard piece cyberware? (say, the much beloved Wired Reflexes 2)


Wired 2, essence 3, capacity - n/a, availability 16R (not avialable under standard chargen rules of availability 12), 32,000 nuyen

QUOTE
How about a list of the megas? (not asking you to leak the plot surprises, just name them)


Ares, Aztechnology, Evo Corp, Horizon, Mitsuhama, NeoNet, Renraku, Saeder-Krupp, Shiawase, Wuxing
Serbitar
so let me get that right:

I score 3 net hits (pistols versus dodging) with my predator (5p -1) against a lined coat guy. This gives me a basic damage of 5+3=8 boxes and he can resist with body+5 dice.

The -1 AP modifier is only for checking for stun or physical damage.

Right, wrong ?
JongWK
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 19 2005, 08:41 PM)
QUOTE (JongWK @ Aug 19 2005, 05:30 PM)
Did heard anything new about the Limited Edition? (i.e., will it make it for the weekend)


Are you going?

Me? Maybe in 2006 or 2007. *sigh*

Seriously, I simply know some people who went there and might not be happy to hear about this. dead.gif
blakkie
Oh, and Defaulting, pg 110. What is up with that?
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
The -1 AP modifier is only for checking for stun or physical damage.


It's also for reducing the Armor dice. The 6 ballistic armor on the lined coat becomes 5 bonus dice instead of 6 for the defender.

But yeah, your example looks about right.
tisoz
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
How are shot rounds for shotguns treated?

~J

They have 3 different spreads, narrow, medium, and wide. They can shoot only 1, 2, or 3 targets within a meter of each other respectively. Damage code gets modified for each, defense roll gets different modifier for each, harder to dodge wider spread.
Serbitar
damn thats nasty.

Seems like very hard to reduce damage on the one hand and extremely hard to kill with one shot on the other.

Edit: No I think its close to impossible to kill with one shot of the predator. Anybody disagree ?
JongWK
Me.

You probably need an above-average roll, but it's perfectly doable. Add in Edge and it can become downright nasty.
Serbitar
Dont just disagree, elaborate with some numbers please.
tisoz
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 19 2005, 05:33 PM)
What does the "P" in the 5P of the Predator mean ?

Can you give us a short example calculation of a shot ? (Complete with hitting, dodging and resisting damage)

yep, P is Physical.

Declare attack, apply situational modifiers, make opposed test, Compare armor, damage resistance test, apply damage.

Ranged combat summary:
attacker rolls Agility + combat skill +/- modifiers
defender rolls reaction +/- modifiers
(defender using full defense rolls Reaction + Dodge +/- modifiers)
DV modifiers: net hits, ammunition, autofire
Armor used: ballistic or impact
Condition monitor used Physical or Stun

Really I would need to play this through and look up a lot of exact numbers and learn the rules, maybe a playtester can give a good example. Or give me a situation and I'll get to it when I can.

[edit Thanks [/edit]
bclements
QUOTE
Ares, Aztechnology, Evo Corp, Horizon, Mitsuhama, NeoNet, Renraku, Saeder-Krupp, Shiawase, Wuxing

!!! Daaam, Rob Boyle wasn't kidding about 'reshuffling'.
tisoz
QUOTE (blakkie)
Will it make my teeth whiter? biggrin.gif

Also, did they leave out equipment weights?

nothing could get your teeth whiter. biggrin.gif

no weights.
JongWK
Suppose an average Agility 3 and Pistols 3. Human, so above average Edge (4)

Smartlink (+2)
Specialization (+2)
Take Aim (+1)

That's 15 dice off the top of my head, plus Rule of Six. Make him a pro and it gets better. Add explosive or EX explosive ammo, of course.

I know there are penalties, but this is just to give you an idea of how many dice you can throw at the other guy. wink.gif
chevalier_neon
Basically, the shooter will throw 6 dices (attr+skill) and do 2 successes. Does the shooted have the right to dodge ? that is my first question, and does he dodge using his attribute also ?
Let's consider that no in my example... this means 7 cases on the monitor. The resistance roll will be of 8 dices... with an average 2-3 successes. Which means that the shooted will have lost 4-5 cases on his monitor, almost half his cases. And -1 modifier to his action....
bclements
*whistles* And if surprise is in there...

Also, tisoz thanks for doing this. I for one (and I'm not the only one) appreciate it. If you're ever down in Little Rock, beer's on me.
JongWK
Your example is off. You didn't take into consideration the attacker's positive modifiers, but you did include armor for the defender.
chevalier_neon
First of all, my example is off because it took me a too long time to post it and that you all post other things meanwhile *sobs*
But you don't have always modifiers (but you often have some armor) smile.gif

There is just one thing I don't understand... how dodge is really used...
tisoz
QUOTE (chevalier_neon)
Yes, I have only two questions (so far) :
- What is your think about the art in the book (I know it is subjective, and that what I might like could look aweful for you and vice versa), but I would have liked to have an opinion...
- More details if you could on the differences between hackers and technomancers as you have already addressed magicians, and cyber...

Many thanks in advance, and of course, don't feel obliged, just if you have some time.

The previewed art is about as bad as it gets. I saw some that I liked and that fit the setting. I noticed some recycled art.

Technomancers use complex forms instead of programs, they need no device to access the matrix. They have no seperate Matrix condition monitor. They use the same skills common to Hackers, but Technomancers use them differently and can not teach them to non-technomancers. Technomancer versions not available as skillsofts. Technomancers must learn complex forms from another technomancer or a sprite.
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
There is just one thing I don't understand... how dodge is really used...


I'm sure I'm not covering it all, because I don't have the rules in front of me, but one thing to remember is that a defender does not have Dodge available in a ranged combat test unless he is on full defense. If he's not on full defense, he's just got his Reaction (plus/minus modifiers) to roll with.
JongWK
QUOTE (chevalier_neon)
But you don't have always modifiers (but you often have some armor) smile.gif

True, though you don't always kill someone with a single gunshot either. smile.gif
tisoz
Someone asked about skillwires.

Active skillsofts are rating 1-4, knowsofts and linguasofts are 1-5.

skillsofts - rating *3ooo nuyen
knowsofts - rating*1000
Linguasofts - rating*500

skillwires are available in ratings from 1-5, rating*.2 essence, rating*4 avalability, rating*2000 nuyen. need rating of at least active softs rating. Skillwires can handle a number of skillsofts with a total rating up to 2*its own rating.
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE (chevalier_neon)
@ darkness : already given. If I can remember ) for a human, 20 for an ork, 25 for a dwarf, 30 for an elf and 40 for a troll

So what are the modifiers for each race?
blakkie
QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle)
QUOTE (chevalier_neon @ Aug 19 2005, 06:40 PM)
@ darkness : already given. If I can remember ) for a human, 20 for an ork, 25 for a dwarf, 30 for an elf and 40 for a troll

So what are the modifiers for each race?

What tisoz posted earlier......


Metatype abilities look unchanged (vision, etc.)
Human: +1Edge
Ork: +3B, +2S, -1C, _1L
Dwarf: +1B, -1R, +2S, +1W, -1Initiative
Elf: +1A, +2C
Troll: +4B, -1A, +4S, -2C, -1I, -1L, -1Initiative
hermit
It seems noone has noticed, but ... Wired 2 still costs comparably much essence (3), but it's nuyen cost has been *divided by ten*!

Does this mean such combat cyberware will be more common now? Will we see a rush of wired-to-the-teeth gangers? Will every character need reaction bossting equipment to be even remotely feasible in combat? If every skinhjead can have Wired 3 for the price of a car, I guess most non-cybered characters are gonna think twice before going out ...

Also, with wired 2 costing as much essence as before, how will this treat bioware'd characters, like the essence0.1 streetsam with a bio index of 2? Will they suddenly die and wither away in 2070 because their bodies notice their system actually never could cope with all their cyber and bio ... or what?

I though cyber waqs gonnna be less essence to compensate for bio using essence up now, too ... frown.gif
Darkness
/Edit: Too late. ^^ Someone was faster than me.
tisoz
QUOTE (Darkness @ Aug 19 2005, 05:38 PM)
How's the BP cost for the different races now?

given in another thread, 25 dwarf, 20 ork, 30 elf, 40 troll.
chevalier_neon
Someone was faster than me so I edited
Serbitar
seems like dodging is REALLY crucial. Bacause you wont be able to shake off that damage.

edit: ah, too late. What does "full defense" mean. Is that a complex action, or cant you do anything else in that rurn, or what ?
mintcar
Seems like there are still just as many rolls and modifiers involved in combat. Iīm worried about how much time thatīs gonna take.
tisoz
QUOTE (blakkie)
Oh, and Defaulting, pg 110. What is up with that?

Looks like bs.

-1 modifier or GM can declare they can not try. Edge can augment.
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE
seems like dodging is REALLY crucial. Bacause you wont be able to shake off that damage.


That's true, but keep in mind that since Dodging requires an active defensive effort, using Dodge will cost you in your ability to fight back.

SR4 remains deadly. Your best bet is to not get shot at. After that, your best bet is to not be standing in the open. After that, your best bet is to be sitting in a tank. nyahnyah.gif
JongWK
QUOTE (hermit)
It seems noone has noticed, but ... Wired 2 still costs comparably much essence (3), but it's nuyen cost has been *divided by ten*!

Not only that, but cyberlimbs are actually usable! *shock* biggrin.gif

On a more serious note, remember the availability limits: a WR2 is not available from start.

As to how Bioware's Essence cost is applied, I bow to Tisoz.
tisoz
QUOTE (bclements @ Aug 19 2005, 06:02 PM)
QUOTE
Ares, Aztechnology, Evo Corp, Horizon, Mitsuhama, NeoNet, Renraku, Saeder-Krupp, Shiawase, Wuxing

!!! Daaam, Rob Boyle wasn't kidding about 'reshuffling'.

See another thread where I explain 3 2 of the new ones are versions of old ones.
JongWK
QUOTE (mintcar)
Seems like there are still just as many rolls and modifiers involved in combat. Iīm worried about how much time thatīs gonna take.

It's more agile and fluid (this one you'll probably have to test by yourself to believe, I think).
Derek
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE (chevalier_neon @ Aug 19 2005, 09:10 PM)
But you don't have always modifiers (but you often have some armor) smile.gif

True, though you don't always kill someone with a single gunshot either. smile.gif

In fact, in real life, very very rarely does a single gunshot kill someone.

Derek
hermit
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 19 2005, 09:20 PM)
It seems noone has noticed, but ... Wired 2 still costs comparably much essence (3), but it's nuyen cost has been *divided by ten*!

Not only that, but cyberlimbs are actually usable! *shock* biggrin.gif

On a more serious note, remember the availability limits: a WR2 is not available from start.

As to how Bioware's Essence cost is applied, I bow to Tisoz.

Not that I precisely mind cyberware3 prices being more on CP2020 level now ... I always liked that more than SR'sw pretty unfeasonable cyberware. I mean, if a cyberlimb costs significantly more than a cloned limb, why should any accident victim choose cybernetic replacement?

Availability means little for non-PCs who don't have to follow chargen rules. And Wired 2's availability of 16 should roughly amount to the availability of 10 or 12 under SR3 rules, right? That's hardly unobtainable, even for street punks.

I worry a lot about essence cost and the effects it will have on character conversion. Could someone please clarify this?
JongWK
QUOTE
In fact, in real life, very very rarely does a single gunshot kill someone.


My point exactly. Modern armor helps a lot.
blakkie
QUOTE (mintcar @ Aug 19 2005, 06:25 PM)
Seems like there are still just as many rolls and modifiers involved in combat. Iīm worried about how much time thatīs gonna take.

My first impression is they dropped the ball there. frown.gif At least it sounds confusing.
Serbitar
My impression: Forget character conversion. Make a new char, give it Karma.

Edit: How does initiative work now ?
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