IIRC Frank has mentioned (on a couple of occasions) that there were editorial changes made to some of his work (SM in particular, but I forget the specifics) that he highly disagreed with. His work is usually very internally consistent and the changes made kind of ruined that quality. If I can think of the specifics and find the posts I'll try to post them.

At any rate, I'm sure that's part of the normal editorial process that takes place for all the freelancers, but Frank often has stronger opinons on such things. I cannot say for sure if this contributed to his leaving the freelancer pool.

He did that pro bono I think.

There's also the fact to consider that some behaviour simply hits a note with people. I have a background in collecting, and I strongly dislike people who do not pay their bills, yet squander money. I seen too many creditors get burned while the "debtors" hid their money. That's enough for me to consider CGL something I don't want associated with a hobby I like unless they start kicking out the bad apples.

I recall him saying something about the Ally Spirit rules and spell sustaining in 'The thread that disappeared'.

Those problems were subsequently addressed in the SM Errata.

(or was that AH....? Hard to check I suppose.)

Send him a PM on the gaming den?

Nah, he's listed there. Frank and I talked a lot about the FAQ while it was in development, it was only fair to mention him.

Oh, if that's a reason, I should have recklessly worked to the complete and final destruction of FanPro, considering what happened to the rules I proposed to handle spy sats for SOTA: 2064.

This was put up in the stickied thread, but I thought I should put it here, too. In the interest of continual communication, Catalyst management has issued a new statement, which is quoted below in its entirety.

In a flash of inspiration I saw the future of the licenses. So I figured I'd share.

Here goes...

Catalyst loses the license.
Topps sells the license to NECA, since they bought the rest of WizKids.
Catalyst approaches NECA to sell them remaining stock and unpublished material.
NECA responds, "Nah, we don't need it."
NECA has WizKids relaunch MechWarrior!
NECA reissues Shadowrun Duels.
NECA rolls the Duels system over into a 'bonus feature' for most of their action figures. So you can play Shadowrun vs. Alien vs. Predator vs. Gears of War.

What do you think, sirs?

I think you have an excellent BTL supplier, and I would treat him right to keep him supplyin'.

- Ket

I think you forgot Freddy vs. Jason (not a J.H. reference) in that tally somewhere.

Honestly, do you think it'd sell without them? Or without D.C. vs. Marvel? X-Men vs. Teen Titans is an absolute MUST (because I just loved it the first time around).

Not sure if anyone noticed, yet, but the "Topps" logo on the Shadowrun4.com website links to Wizkids/NECA (wizkidsgames.com). I doubt that's how it's supposed to be.

D'oh! Thought I fixed that. Thanks for the heads up.

Jason H.

EDIT: Fixed now.

Glad to be of service =)

I've been hooked on Shadowrun since I "acquired" the hardcover first edition, street samurai,and seattle sourcebook from one of my players. Since then even though I've had scarce opportunity to play, I bought every edition that followed, and each one kept getting better. I'm not up on the debate over which version is the best (is there a debate?). I just know the rules seemed to become more viable with each version, but the stories and current events stayed rockin! I couldn't stop in the middle of any of them.

Throughout all that I didn't know who owned what, who was publishing, or who was distributing. I didn't get all the company name changes on the books from FASA to everything else, but what did it matter? The timeline kept going, great source material kept coming, and the game adapted fantastically to new tech and current events.

We're all intrigue junkies if we're here on a Shadowrun forum so naturally this topic has taken off running with a life of its own, and that's only made more intense by the presence of writers (employees) naturally concerned about their income which is a hell of a worry. Despite all that I'm not worried at all about the future of the game. It has transitioned through multiple hand offs and always managed to shine. There's going to be great new material written by lovers of the game who truly understand it (and will get paid for it).

And heck this crazy year is going to make for one hell of an inspiration for a Shadowrun adventure! It's already got my gears chugging.

Mesh

Round these parts it was known to as "The Edition Wars" if that tells you anything.

Shadowrun vs. Alien vs. Predator vs. Terminator vs. Gears of War vs. Big Daddy vs. Freddy vs. Jason vs. the Parkers vs. Cheech and Chong vs. Conan vs. The Bride vs. Harry Potter vs. John Lennon vs. Pirates vs. Ninjas vs. Spartans vs. Ninja Turtles vs. Street Fighter.

Good god NECA has a lot of action figure licenses.

Thanks for the update Jason!

I'm a much bigger fan of Battletech than Shadowrun, simply because I've never had the oppertunity to play a game of SR. Though I've always been interested in it. That'll probably change, thankfully, as I hope to run a BT campaign soon with a friend...who's run SR campagins. So... looking forward to seeing those books you keep talking about

That being said, I've always had a good experience with Catalyst. Hard not to when I compare some of my FASA books to Master and Minions...

So I'm probably one of those no good 'CGL supporters' that seems to be so frowned upon in these threads.

That being said, this whole situation has had me (like everyone else) a bit worried over the past few weeks (nothing compared to freelancers and CGL employees of course...).

That recent release has finally drawn me out of lurking though... am I the only one feeling a little optimistic from that little blub at the end about the logo changes from Wizkids to Topps? I mean, if the statement is true, and CGL has been negotiating with Topps for weeks already over the licence... why would they wait until the last moment to want their name displayed if they were not going to rewew the licence? Especially considering the fact that anyone looking to pick up the SR and BT licences would already know who owns them anyway...

If they are leaning towards renewing it, however, directing their logos to be put on the webpages now would make sense... as a couple months from now, new fans that find the sites will see that Topps is the owner, not Wizkids. It just doesn't make sense to me that Topps would wait until the last minute to try and advertise to the fans that they own the licences if they're about to sell them to someone else.

That's just me though... and of course, there is the fact that my Master and Minions says Wizkids on the back, and the blub says nothing about changing the logos on future products... (I don't suppose that's a question you can answer, Jason? Has Topps 'directed' CGL to put the Topps logo on future books?)


P.S: Don't worry guys, these threads aren't the only ones I've been reading at Dumpshock...other threads seem a bit more welcoming and...sane. Although augmented forehead penises was a bit...odd. And not necessarially sane. Oh, and fur augmentation. Hrm. Furries in SR. No wonder my friend campaigns it...

Now for the real world translation?



We took Coleman out back and beat the shit out of him and he's not allowed to look at the company money anymore. He's not fired and in jail yet because that would be admitting to the crimes and we might go down with him...



We didn't pay them.... and they put a stop on the books via their contracts because.... we didn't pay um.



65.... payments to Dozens of freelancers, covering a variety of projects. 65... payments to Dozens of freelancers. We finally paid them what we owed them, or enough for them to lift the hold.



Turns out... when people do work for you, and you're in contract for that work. You actually have to PAY um. Who knew!? So... we paid um what we OWED them, and have looked over our books and paid off what we could so this didn't happen with the next book we're trying to publish. Note we didn't pay all. Just what we need to get product back on shelves.



Turns out... if they do the work we DO have to pay um. "The Check's in he mail" only works for so long. So.. we're planning in the future to pay for the work we contract. So this doesn't happen again.



They had us over a barrel so we released those properties in an attempt to dodge those lawsuits...



We're still in the hole and we're being sued for the money. The gall!



If people ignore the rest of the information on hand, and even.. in this very release where we note we were behind on paying DOZENS of people 65 payments and had to let properties go due to none payment and use stock items to pay them off. Maybe they'll think we never do wrong and we actually PAID these guys. Right! Um... Look A dime!! SHiiiiiiiny!!!



Ignoring the fact that we had to be taken to court to pay and had to have books put on hold for non payment of the people that wrote them. But we'll do better in the future. Those pesky workers aren't gonna work for free any more!



Topps has taken notice that the excrement has hit the fan... and are making sure we know they own our asses on this.. so we're kissin' ass and trying to get them to give us another chance!


~~~



Now... this was done in partial jest. It's ment to make you laugh a little... but there's a good number of points above that you might want to take notice of.

Their gentle wording aside some of the things admitted to should scare the crap out of you as fans of the IP. I know it does me.

Topps would have to be insane to let these guys retain the property now.

Was it just me, or did the tone of this press release seem a bit more confrontational than the previous?

Whats sad, is that I keep hearing that people write for Catalyst, or insert whatever rpg company, for the love of the game not the money. Thats how the companies get you, by using people as fodder because behind you there multiple people wanting to take a shot at writing for Shadowrun when the previous Freelancers realize how they are being treated. I think this is the perfect opportunity for the Freelancers to change the rules on how they are paid. If you get enough people united, you can change how things are done.

Seriously how many people actually dont get paid weekly, bi-monthly, every 2 weeks or monthly. And saying this is how the industry operates is just a cop out. Make a change guys, stick up for your rights before you get shafted. Demand half payment when project is delivered. Think of how many projects over the years that dont go to print and then all that hard work is for not.

"Defensive Spin" is what I got out of it. But then I'm first to admit I'm a touch negatively bias at the moment.

Right now, almost all my money comes from freelance writing. Much of that comes from the gaming industry. A big portion of my work comes from Catalyst, so I do have a vested interest in this topic. I've also done plenty of work with White Wolf, some for Goodman, some for Paizo, some for Green Ronin, and a number of other publishers.

For a point of reference, most publishers make a point of paying shortly after a final draft is accepted. That's industry standard. It's what I do with my independent publishing ventures. Most major companies pay those invoices twice monthly, some every two weeks. A very small number pay quarterly. Catalyst is a bit odd in that they pay after publication. However, they're not alone in that. Paizo does it, as well as Green Ronin.

That said, most RPG publishers pay quicker than non-RPG counterparts. If I do work for an online magazine, I can invoice after publication, and can usually expect to see payment in the next fiscal quarter. If it's a print magazine, payment often comes six months later. While I don't really approve of their payment methods at all times, I will say the RPG industry is hardly the worst in publishing. In fact, they're often much better. Hell, I've gotten advances from one publisher.

I love that you think that calling a company on not paying it's debts (including those that it owes you) because one of the owners is engaged in fraudlent behaviour 'reckless [..] destruction'

What the hell? Frank is 'reckless' for blowing the whistle, not, say, IMR's L.L.Coleman for defrauding the company?

Are you for serious? Can you lend me some money so I can not pay it back - and presumably you won't 'recklessly' try and destory my credit.

If I had to guess, I'd say Nath meant to say "relentlessly". I'll give Frankie that, he's not been reckless. But he has been relentless.

Yeah, but with a bit of an agressive tone, it seemed. Just really seemed as if it was a different writer from prior releases.

Could be they don't much like what people have been saying. I know I've not exactly been gentle with my words.

Unless of course the creditors believe that CGL is going down anyway and want to get what they can while they can. There are all sorts of ways people can squirrel away money and getting in the legal action as soon as possible is a way of stopping them doing so. Also, bad blood would be understandable. If, for example, someone stole several thousand from me and promised me that if I let them go, they'd eventually pay some of it back, I would unquestionably take the loss and see justice served rather than see them continue to hold me over the promise of some repayment when I knew for a fact they'd lied to me.

K.

I fully agree, that's what it sounds "translated" to me as well. And I do have to say that at this point, while I did not expect anything else from people who continue to work with and for Coleman, a more honest admittance that CGL/IMR did screw up royally by shortening freelancers and license holders of their money owed, and by not noticing several hundreds of thousands of dollars missing would do more to make the "It'll never happen again" statement a bit more convincing than a "All's fine now, and nothing really bad happened anyway" spin.

Agreed. A long time ago, I decided I had to separate my love for the game from my business relationship with the publisher. I don't rely on my freelancer income, I have a nice day job that pays the bills. So a late payment did not have much direct impact on my life, and I'd much rather see freelancers who rely on that income paid before me. But I couldn't stand how the behavior of late contracts, missing contracts, late payments, short payments, bounced checks and no responses from management became the acceptable standard business practice at Catalyst (and to be fair, FanPro before them). I worried that if I didn't say anything about it, I was silently endorsing it and allowing these publishers to do the same behavior to freelancers who do rely on that income.

They are able to quickly find freelancers to replace ones who have given up dealing with them. Unfortunately, I usually see the same frustration creep into the new batch of freelancers. Fortunately, I think this current situation has highlighted the problem and made it visible to the fans who often become the freelancers, so it may just change. I hope.

It certainly enlightened me, and I hope the people responsible for this "practise" will not be involved with Shadowrun in the future.

I fear it won't. One problem is that many game authors aren't professional authors*. As a result, they don't know what to expect. Is this a standard contract? Is it normal to be delayed on payment? Will I hurt my chances of finding more work if I complain? Is it normal to get a contract after the work is done rather than before? A gamer who gets the opportunity to write for his/her favorite game just doesn't know. As a result, they'll keep working for quite awhile before they realize something is wrong**.

There is also the fact that these experiences are so commonplace, that problems like this seem to be the norm (I have many friends who write for games and many of them have horror stories of non-payment). As a result, when I started writing for CGL I went into it with the idea that I might not get paid (I hoped and believed I would but I knew it was possible I might not). It's sad, I know, but I LOVE SR, so I took the risk.

Plus, these problems often aren't there when people start. At first it's all good, people are getting checks, and they keep writing. Then over time, things start to go south. The author likes what he or she is doing so they keep writing, hoping it will get better. It often takes awhile before they finally throw up their hands and say "That's it. I'm done."

Finally - it's completely true that for every writer that abandons a line, there are a 100 fans with decent writing skills dying to jump in and write for their favorite game. Everyone believes "it won't happen to me" - it's human nature - so even with alarm bells going off all around, there will always be someone willing to jump in and do the work despite the obvious risks or problems. (And for dirt cheap pay!)

All in all, I think there are a lot of things that contribute to this problem and I don't think any one solution (like unionizing) will solve it. The best thing I can suggest is that authors do their homework before starting work for a company and that they learn as much as they can about the biz (if you go to GenCon, attend the Writer's Symposium seminars - you'll learn all about the biz straight from people who do this for a living). The only other thing that might help is if we get enough GOOD examples in the industry and people talk about them. Then, writers will start to expect better from their employers.

* Professional = Writes regularly for pay. Not meant to suggest superiority over new or hobby authors.
** I am in NO way putting down new authors with this. Not knowing how things work is something EVERY new author goes through. It's the fact that so many game authors ARE new authors (in my experience) that lets some of this stuff slide

It would also help if fans would be more concerned whether or not the actual authors of the work they love are treated well or not. I certainly feel no love anymore for any member of the management of CGL after hearing about this, and I do not think they deserve any thanks for the work done by the authors.

If an novel author would tell his fans that he was shortcharged by a publisher in a similar way I doubt that anyone would feel the publisher deserved another chance - nor would they think the publisher was needed to continue the novels.

As a consumer, I have questions directed at the freelancers. No doubt other consumers will chime in, but I'm only really concerned with the freelancers' opinion on this one. (Including JMH.)

Would you consider CGL/IMR a "sweatshop" in the way it treats it's laborers?

If so, do you feel CGL/IMR is on track to improve working conditions?

What can we, the consumers, do to encourage CGL/IMR to improve in this area?

It has been a few years (to say the least) since I've been involed in day-to-day publishing, but I can say that pretty much all the horror stories you hear about late payments etc. are pretty much true. I can count on one hand, however, the number of times that I am aware of it occuring through deliberate efforts to cheat or swindle freelancers or contractors. The ebb and flow of cash/income in publishing is horrible. Publishers and develope rely on their cash flow from multiple distributors to pay their bills and very often the distributors are late or inconsistent in their payments, which can create a domino effect of payments. The cash in a publisher's bank account goes to three things, usually in this order:

• Operational expenses: rent, utlitities, salaries. (So the pipeline of new product and billing keeps working.)
• Printing and production costs. (So new and reprint products go out for immediate cash infusion.)
• Freelancer/Contract payments. (Paying owed royalties, contracted payments, and advances.)

When the cash flow is lean its easy to see who gets the short end of the stick first.

Now, that said, too many companies in the RPG industry are run by fans turned publishers/developers who are not businessmen and do not have the best (or any) financial oversight/maintenance practices in place. Pay out lists to freelancers is not weighted by some factor of who is owed the most or longest, but rather who they like best, and so on. Tracking of deliquent payments is spotty at best, with the "squeaky wheel gets the check" system often in place, which is often accompanied by the "oh, if we owe them and they need money they'll nag us" system.

But really, in the end, it comes down to poor communication. I find that most people can be understanding and accomodating if they know what is going on. Running late on paymens? Tell them, and tell them why. Educate your freelance talent base on the publishing industry and they will work with you as long as they believe you are being fair with them. They moment they do not, the moment they lose trust, things can spiral out of control very quickly.

Bottom line: communicate.

TomD

I'd say "bookkeeping"is as or even more important. It's one thing to be late on payments because someone else is late with paying you, it's another thing if you are not organized enough to notice someone is co-mingling funds - or worse.

There is certainly that. My point was more about the industry in general, then one current example.

Prior press releases were in response to talk on the Internet.

This press release was in response to the bankruptcy filing. They are indicating that they intend to contest the filing, and lay out what's going to be the basis of their argument (we've started making payments, we're working on generating revenue, we've already made some sort of payment to some of the parties that filed).

I think the entire reason for bringing the up the last paragraph is to indicate how they believe Topps is leaning in the licensing issue. What Topps decides to do with the licenses basically determines whether CGL still exists or not. As I stated previously, the choice of going forward now with the three parties indicated in the Bankruptcy filing indicates those parties are unsure whether CGL will still exist in four weeks.

So yes, the release is much more confrontational, but that's because it's really aimed at the bankruptcy filing, not at the rumor mill.

Maybe "as" but definitely not "more." Trust is the only real commodity worth a damn in any business and its near-impossible to win back once lost. Communication keeps trust. I'm more likely to be happier with a publisher who tells me they screwed up the ledgers than a publisher who is completely incommunicado or brushes me off on every issue.

I responded also to your post about many RPG companies being run by fans who are not businessmen. Those especially need a good bookkeeper.

I would not be happy with either - but less unhappy if I was paid, and brushed off, instead of not paid and talked to.

But that's a personal opinion. More important is that without solid bookkeeping there soon won't be any business left to communicate about.

People tend to shut down when things go south on them. Instead of talking with their creditors they start dodging them hoping that something will break and they will get caught up. The worst horror story (outside of the industry) that I have ever heard went like this...

Married woman loans $10,000 to relatives without telling husband, via credit cards.
Relatives don't pay the money back.
Woman makes a couple more loans, racking up around $30,000 on credit cards, still without informing husband, no one pays her back.
Woman decides to go to casino to try and win the money needed for the credit cards.
Woman finally calls into a money advisor show with a debt of $75,000, husband is in the dark.
Husbands salary is $30,000 a year.

Another suggestion I would add to Tom's communicate, be honest with yourself first every single day. The worst thing a person can do is convince themselves that something will break their way and they will get clear of the mess.

Which is very sad as there are business services vendors who partner with companies and act as the accounting/HR/payroll/benefits department in the place of an in-house unit. Which leaves the company owners the freedom to concentrate on actual production of material.

That's an EXCELLENT point that I should have made. My use of "Horror Story" doesn't necessarily mean "wrong-doing." It just meant "lots of work, no (or very late) pay." Thanks for noting that!

I absolutely and totally agree.

The lack of communication is probably the part that bothered me the most. I was very willing to work with them, especially since writing isn't my only source of income, but they just wouldn't talk to me.

I also agree with Bob's statement about "being honest with yourself." If the existing contract/payment structure isn't working, change it. Adapt to the reality of the situation. Don't just keep using it and keep breaking the contracts.

QFT

Don't be afraid of the costs in outsourcing these functions. Truth is, you aren't saving any money running the risk and doing a sap dash job yourself. I know more about the IT side of this operation, but it basically equates to spending about as much as you would on a dedicated employee and getting the functional work of a whole department and the level of protection and professionalism of an organization much larger than yours. Plus a layer of legal protection from folks who are inclined to open the cash box and take a walk with your funds.

Every successful enterprise starts out with the best intentions, but every enterprise runs into trouble.

Bookkeeping is an essential dollars-and-cents part of the business, but communication to and among freelancers is absolutely vital if you want to write together, to share ideas, and to build trust. The line developer has to be informed, and the line developer has to inform the freelancers, and the freelancers have to be able, willing, and encouraged to talk with each other. If people try to write stuff in a vacuum with no contact with each other, if the line developer doesn't know what's going on, doesn't make an effort to keep in contact with the freelancers, and doesn't keep everyone informed, things start to fall apart. Books get written with chapters that don't agree, tempers flare, and rumors and informal communications start to take precedence over official announcements.

Speculation: Would any game company benefit from hiring a "suit"?

I think Penny Arcade was greatly improved as an enterprise when they hired their business manager. (Who not only has a mind for business but is an avid gamer, and not too bad at TF2..). I work in a creative industry and most of the worker bees make fun of suits and have some hatred for them, so I know why this may not seem like a good idea. However the companies which had home grown suits, that is to say artists, designers and engineers who had a business sense and moved into being a full time suit.

Also as Shadowrunners, we aren't really a crowd to likely root for suits. However, even runners understand that they, suits, operate for the profit of the business.

And if this comes off sour, its something in my current day to day life in addition to any relation to gaming.

Perhaps Catalyst needs to find a suit. Too bad I don't have a feel for business. Had to get out of sales because I can't remember names.

BlueMax

Ultimately a COO/CFO type would still report to the president & principal shareholders. In CGL/IMR's case, based on what we've seen from "official" sources, I would strongly advocate contracting with a reputable outsider. As it's been previously mentioned, it's not cheap, but much cheaper than the loss of licenses that have already occurred.

Well considering that the current set up let an owner 'Co-mingle' almost a million dollars out of the company coffers while their writers went unpaid to the point of exercising contract and having books pulled from the shelves, and .... no one really stopped the schmuck before he'd topped $700,000 and tried to get people to falsify documents..

Yeah I think they could benefit from someone with a lick of business sense.

I mean I don't own a business and I've never published a book but I know 'Co-mingling' personal and company accounts is moronic, and buying a house with that money to the tune of over $600,000, is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE bulls-eye.

Even as far as criminals go, that was pretty flippin' stupid. It's not like you can hide it.

Wow. That sure is a confident statement. Are you his realtor?