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Aria
May 23 2011, 12:43 PM
Ok, action aside, I'm putting up a neak preview of the recruitment thread for the next bit and I'd welcome your thoughts/comments/suggerstions...

I've put it in spoiler tags, although I don't think there's anything in it that will be a spoiler for the current game there's a chance I've missed something so feel free not to read it until later on!

[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
May 23 2011, 01:18 PM
QUOTE (Aria @ May 23 2011, 07:43 AM) *
...and I'd welcome your thoughts/comments/suggerstions...

[ Spoiler ]


Two(Three) points that I had some initial comments on:
Will spoiler in case anyone isn't peeking...
[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
May 23 2011, 01:46 PM
[ Spoiler ]
sabs
May 23 2011, 02:18 PM
I admit. I didn't read closely, and I never even noticed the cracking for skills rule, but I had fully intended on playing a Hacker who was trying to game the system smile.gif And I was going to ask you how that was going to look. To be fair, I love Hacker,s and the only reason Sticks isn't a hacker, is cause you told me not to be one.


That being said, I think you'll want to make it more like:
If you want to give yourself a skill, Hacking+Logic+reality Filter vs System+Firewall+Reality Filter, opposed test, each net hit gives you a point of skill.
or something to that effect. Perhaps you have to spend time in the UV creating exploit programs, before you get to do that stuff.

Of course, then I want to be a Technomancer so bad.. So I can just thread myself some cool stuff. Although you could just treat Technomancers like Mages in the game. smile.gif

BlackHat
May 23 2011, 02:25 PM
Also, I do like the hacking = cheating idea. In my mind, that's the sort of shinanigans our opponents were using against us, and the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said we (or whatever teams comes in after our report) would need to mitigate that sort of thing.

Of course, from the description, it sounded like you were planning for it to be less about Deep Watch needing to go into the UV node for some reason, and more about us playing volunteers who join the stillwater community and play their game for educational purposes. If that is the case, we're more likely to go up against "realistic" simulations of apocolyptic problems that cheating technomancers, but still. biggrin.gif

As much as I like the idea of hacking reality inside a simulation, once you open the door for that, its hard to maintain balance between "Neo" and the rest of Morpheous's crew.
Seth
May 23 2011, 07:26 PM
Are you expecting this to go all Matrix? And would our characters in the game realise they are in a game?

A friend of mine has been running a fantasy version of this for 25 years or so, and it went very well. It wasn't until about year 5 that we realized we were in a machine, and started interacting with the outside world. I think it can work very well, and I look forward to playing in it
Aria
May 23 2011, 08:32 PM
Thanks for looking over this guys...I will certainly take it on board! I didn't want hackers to be hampered in the UV node (something that struck me as odd in previous SR versions of UV nodes but I agree with Blackhat that I've probably gone too far the other way in balancing it nyahnyah.gif). I like Sab's idea of rolling exploit to work a cheat into the program...will think on, I want to preserve some measure of balance and not end up with an entire character group of military hackers nyahnyah.gif I also want to avoid swapping characters willy nilly for a quick access to a so far unused skill.

Equipment will be virtual but then as the entire game is then what's the difference?!? Will try and sort this in my head along with the character swap thing...in order to be part of the scenario it will have to be stuff that Stillwater can acquire between now and this future event (like an underground store of APCs?!? smile.gif).

To answer Blackhat's and Seth's questions, yes, I was intending that you are going in knowing it's a UV node and a simulation. The opposition will be programmed to be lifelike but I'm sure you all have some inkling of the sort of apocalypse I'm talking about so cheating the sim will be the least of your worries ork.gif
BlackHat
May 23 2011, 09:00 PM
More ideas (just brainstorming):

It also seems like cheating the sim would go directly against the goals of the people placing us in it. They want to simulate future events to determine how best to act, and the data doesn't tell them anything if we're doing impossible things like teleporting around, and conjuring up extra supplies from thin air (or by calling in new players who log in with gear). Another way to handle the hacking/cheating thing would be to come up with some sort of penalty where if the system detects what you are doing, something suitably bad happens (and since you've just invalidated a bunch of research data, it might involve resetting the scenario or booting everyone or something).

Though, really, if the UV node is that hyper-realistic, it should be pretty difficult to even find the cracks to exploit in the first place. I mean, the ACTUAL matrix is a malleable reality where programming skills translate into your ability to affect the world you experience ... and everyone knows this, and you still can't do the sorts of things you've described (learning skills you just don't know). The fact that in this UV node, hackers can use their knowledge of hacking to reprogram their brains to know how to do things that they don't even know how to do probably says more about the UV node, and the stuff it is willing to allow despite the limitations of the reality sim, than it does about the hackers actual skill (since none of those hackers could do those things outside of the UV node). And if that is the case, why would these gaping security holes that everyone can exploit be left around when serious science is being done?

Maybe one way to go and keep things "balanced" is to take the skill at hacking out of the equation. After all, the programming of the UV node (which is probably some sort of resonance well, and probably wasn't written in any conventional programming languages) is also probably so far beyond anything that any hacker could understand - much less alter on the fly... why tie people's ability to cheat to their skill at hacking, at all? Why not come up with some other attribute that everyone has (edge? Something new?) which would let any kind of character cheat a bit, if they can frame their thoughts to recognize the minor discrepancies in the simulation and take advantage of them?

Hackers and TMs might not have much to do in a post-apocolyptic future, where Matrix access is shoddy, but should that really surprise anyone? Its probably better that the simulation be designed that way than to leave exploits laying around to artificially make the data suggest that hackers and TMs play an important roll after the world's internet collapses.

Another issue is that rolling your hacking skills against a top-of-the-line UV node might be next to impossible depending on how realistic the ratings are of the UV node we're in. Better option than no option at all for skills we need, and have plenty of time to roll against, but I don't think anyone would try faking combat skills with such a rule, since they'd might be lucky to score any net hits, at all.
sabs
May 23 2011, 09:16 PM
Having read it more:

I have 2 possibilities, I'll either play Sticks on the outs, having been discharged, and wanting another crack at the thing (but in a Mecha this time)

OR
I'll play a Gun-bunny/driver/skill-wires guy.
mister__joshua
May 24 2011, 09:26 AM
I kinda get what blackhat is saying about the hacker/TM thing and exploiting, but I do really like the idea of respecing and think it'll make the game interesting and different. On that, can't you download Skillsofts anyway, just as normal runners? I'm typing from memory, but I seem to remember Unwired saying that the companies that provide skillsofts now do them as direct downloads. I'd think its pretty reasonable for a milcorp or whatever to have a bank of skillsofts to download as people want them

On characters, my first thought was to write an interim story for Bryn covering the intervening time. Nothing after the UV node seems the same, maybe have a BTL addiction trying to re-capture the feeling, and jumping at the chance to get back there. This would be a change in personality, but not unreasonable for someone who could be considered to have had a life-changing experience. Addictions grow on people. Maybe the UV node is like his first shot of heroin.

Was just a thought anyway. I may not even survive Emerging Conflict yet...
Aria
May 24 2011, 10:09 AM
Yes, I need to think carefully about this... Blackhat has some great points!

Nobody has mentioned the 'troops' thing? I wanted something for the pcs to have more control over...although as it's currently written they would be a backdrop... another thing I considered was allowing the face types like Bryn and Roberts to take troops as part of their bps and control them like a weapon?!? I was toying with the idea of leadership / tactics tests and then a teamwork test for the troops to determine how effective they are in combat...

Thoughts...!?!
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 12:33 PM
War! has some rules for using social tests to command/inspire troops, but they don't really do much. smile.gif The ability to have a larger tacnet bonus probably does more than anything else. I see pros and cons to how we handled the NPC troops. I liked having teams with us on this run, but I felt like it was sometimes a little micromanagey (deciding how to divide them, how many to have on which tasks - none of which I really had a good feel for in real life, anyway) and other times very abstracty (in combat, we said fight, and basically trusted them to know what they were doing and win the fight). I don't have any specific suggestions for how to bridge those two. It did allow us to keep the story moving without getting bogged down in the details of combat, but it also meant that it probably didn't matter specifically what actions our PCs took during the combat, because the overall victory would be had because of the troops, not any one of us.

Depending on what you have in mind for the future-setting in the simulation, it seems like it would probably make a lot more sense for them to watch a small group of key survivors. If there were soldiers around, they would probably be NPCs in the sim, and would probably be assigned tasks like guarding critical resources or holding an area while the PCs went and did the thing that required creativity or the sort of problem solving the simulation was meant to require from its players. If the NPC soldiers could overcome the challenges on their own, the people looking into this simulation wouldn't need people to play around in it, at all.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 01:15 PM
One more comment came to me last night:
QUOTE (Aria @ May 23 2011, 07:43 AM) *
...and use hot sim matrix initiative or real world initiative (whichever is better).


There are two numbers here, one, the initiative score, is based on the response of the system - so we could use the hacker's commlink or the TM's node, but if the UV node is like last time, we were plugged directly into it (and not with our commlinks) so PCs may have similar (if not the same) score for their matrix initiative. My main comment here is that you would need to let everyone know what the response of the UV node is (and its probably good, or we'd all notice the lag) in order to calculate matrix initiative.

The second is initiative passes - which you may have not even meant to include - but, without extra cyberware or echoes or adept powers or something, everyone (not just hackers) will have 3 IP in hot sim matrix... which means buying improved reflexes or wired reflexes or any other initiative booster becomes a lot less "worth it" if everyone can just use their hot-sim initiave passes, insread.
sabs
May 24 2011, 01:16 PM
I think instead of using BP to let the Faces bring in troops. You should allow the Faces to 'in game' recruit troops from the local soldiers. If we run across groups of soldiers whose command structure has fallen apart due to the horrors wink.gif then let someone like Captain Roberts exert his leadership to recruit them, give them a purpose, or if he runs into another officer, allow him to try and get that officer to help us in our goal. But i think having a 'squad' of guys to use like a weapon is.. going to be hard to use. Already during this game we kept forgetting about 1/2 my drones wink.gif There are many posts where I tried to have my drones do something, and nothing ever came of it. Probably cause it's just too many balls in the air.
sabs
May 24 2011, 01:18 PM
The UV Node has a Realer than Real! Simulation. If you're 'character' doesn't have inititive enhancing 'stuff' on his character sheet, then he can't move faster. Unless you break the game. But I think that breaking the game should be /hard/ like Neo is The One, and Morpheus and Trinity only get to tweak the rules a little.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 01:30 PM
Yeah, I guess another way of putting it is that "hacker" isn't really a "class" in a classless system like Shadowrun. Anyone with a commlink (which is everyone) can drop into VR and try to "hack" something - they just might not be any good at it... so if the rule is that "hackers" can use their VR initiative (hot sim, to boot) then that makes everyone, even the stupidest troll ganger go really fast, and really often. smile.gif What probably need to be done, is to involve some tests somewhere, or some qualities or something, that insure that you're actually good at hacking before you can break the system and reap the benifits.

The more I think about it, "reality hacking" and other cheating in sim is pretty analogous to magic. Wanna cheat to be VR-fast in the meat? Pick up improved reflexes (adept power or spell). Want to be able to dodge bullets like Neo? Pick up combat sense (adept power or spell). Want to unravel the code of another character to destroy it? Pick up powerbolt or manabolt or something.

Its not glamorous, but you've already set the precedent that you don't need to be awakened in the real world to access magic in the simulation (which is an awesome way for a mundane to experience magic, BTW)... but why not say a hacker can take adept, mystic adept, or magician qualities (and - as written above - those qualities stay with them between characters) which allow them to alter the game reality in ways indistinguishable from magic.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 01:36 PM
On that note, if qualities are fixed with the PC (not his simulated character) how does one play a magician if they are not a magician in real life, anyway?

It might be more elegant to allow some number of qualities to be picked for the PC (in which case, they stick with him between logins) and others which can be selected based on simulated character (like entering the sim as a magician, when you are really a cybered up street sam, IRL).

Along those lines, essence should probably be tracked in the simulation, since that is where the magic is being faked... but then you have to make sure the PC isn't benefiting from cyberware they are wearing outside of the sim, but which their persona in the sim doesn't possess.

Also, I can understand if mental attributes are fixed (although even that goes out the window if the sim can teach you skills you don't know), but physical attributes should probably be fluid (tied to the simulated persona). If I'm a shrimpy little guy IRL, but I go into the UV node and am playing a big tough troll, I should still be strong, right?

I might be diverting too much from how UV nodes generally work (where you have your own stats, and don't become an entirely new person), but since you've said mundanes can do magic just by playing a character who has magic in the sim, I am assuming for this game, you're imagining that the same RL characters can go into the sim and become drastically different simulated characters - like a magician one time, a street sam the next, a neurosurgeon the time after that, maybe even a ghoul - who knows.
sabs
May 24 2011, 01:41 PM
He said NEGATIVE qualities are fixed with the PC. not Positive ones.
And I think that only the Mental Stats should be frozen in place.
Also, Sticks is Paraplegic... does that mean every 'character' he plays in the simulation would be paraplegic too?
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 01:53 PM
Another idea/suggestion (bored at work):

- Give each PC a number of BP to build their character, IRL.
- - Maybe even tell them not to bother figuring out their physical attributes, like with AIs
- - You could also have them not bother with RL equipment, contacts, etc
- - - Because of that, you could probably get by with 275-300 or something.. this is just off the top of my head

- Then whenever they enter the node as a new character, give them some additional BP to fill in the gaps, including:
- - You need ot buy up your physical attributes (~80 points, on average)
- - Metatype
- - Qualities that only the character possess (magic, but maybe others)
- - Equipment (esp weapons, armor, augmentations)
- - Contacts/troops

- Everything bought with the original pool of PC BP is fixed. The character is only so smart, and has some skills he ACTUALLY knows that stick with him between characters
- - Everything bought with the smaller pool of character BP is fluid, and can be reallocated when new characters are "played" in the sim
- - - Because this is a smaller pool, respeccing should be faster - and we could use the PACKS above to make the process a little easier

To address what Sabs just brought up about parapalegic, etc - the way I would suggest handling it is that anything that is purchased with "real" BP is fixed and comes with you, but anything that doesn't matter (or doesn't translate) doesn't need to be purchased with BP (or isn't worth free BP). That way, if you want the negative quality, you could say the paralysis is a mental condition or something, so that even in the simulation he wouldn't know how to make new legs function properly. Or, you could not pick up the negative quality and say that although Sticks is paralysed in real life, that doesn't (necessarily) mean anything in the sim ... then you could take the quality on a case by case basis with characters you play. If, for example, Sticks was going to play himself as he did in the last adventure, he would take the quality... but if he wanted to walk... you know... he could.

That way, someone who ISN'T paralyzed could also choose to log in as a character who is (or has some other negative disability in the simulation) without that quality becoming permanent and following them around in every other character they play. A good rule of thumb would be that "physical" qualities (both positive and negative) should be purchased with character-BP (or just be fluid if going with the original rule), while mental qualities (positive and negative) should generally be fixed to the character and purchased with real (non-fluid) BP.
sabs
May 24 2011, 02:40 PM
I think what would be fun is this:

Build a regular 400 BP character. With a backstory, etc. Even if it's a wageslave secretary (which is hard on 400 bp, but doable).

That's your baseline.
You then get to move any BP around you want when creating your 'online character', with Aria approval, but with a few caviats:

Willpower, Intuition, Logic, Charisma cannot be changed, ever.
Mental Qualities Cannot be changed: Analytical Mind, Linguist, College Educated, Addictions. Stuff like that.

Skills: This gets tricky, while the System can give me new skills, can it take away skills I already have and block access to them? We'll pretend it can, so skills can be moved around.

Knowledgeskills, lets say that you get to keep your existing knowledge skills, and you get to download logic+intuitionx2 temporary knowledge skills. (knowsofts are cheap and easy, and while they only go to 4.. it's pretty trivial to include them).

equipment: You 'create' an equipment load out for each character, so you can change that between characters completely.

BlackHat
May 24 2011, 03:37 PM
That sounds pretty close to what Aria originally proposed (other than locking in the mental attributes), and I think its a pretty good plan.

I do think that its kind of pointless to bother specing out the full character if none of that is every going to come into play, but it would add more depth to the character, so its probably fine. I just think it doesn't matter how strong your character is in the real world, so why bother figuring it out in the first place. (At least, not until the story evolves to the point where we come out of the sim again and need to know our real-world stats). Same goes for real world equipment, contacts, and anything else that we likely wouldn't have any access to in the UV-node. Spending points on any of those things would just be pissing them away into the "I'll reallocate these shortly" bucket, and if that's the case, why not just set aside the BP and not bother figuring out how you wasted them on a car and a lifestyle, and some friends you'll never see again, and so on.

I also think its unintuitive that the character you become in the game is more or less powerful/capable/skilled based on how many resources your character wasted in the real world or asked the system to block from their mind temporarily. Personally I like the distinction between PC BP and UV BP because it means all of the simulated characters are built by the same rules... and not that the UV node can somehow download more skills into your brain just because you happen to be a troll in real life, or because you no longer think it is relevant to know how to drive your car, which you also happened to spend a lot of money on.

If it can teach one guy who has never picked up a gun to be a world-class sniper, it should be able to do the same for anyone else. I'm not fond of the fact that if you plug two people into the UV node, the guy who is stronger (or tougher, or richer, or has more friends, or whatever) in the real world somehow ends up more skilled (or stronger, or faster, or whatever) in the simulation - except that it maintains game balance, which is good... but also maintained by separating them.

Also, making the pool of BP that can be respecced smaller means that the different character concepts/builds matter more (because we can't all just respec into whatever we need at the moment) and is a process which should be quicker if only because we have fewer points to reallocate when it becomes necessary.
sabs
May 24 2011, 03:43 PM
So maybe do this:

Create who you are(name, history, and spend 100 BP on mental stats (and your base race) + any permanent qualities (lets say up to 20BP negative, and 20bp positive).

If you're a Troll, you have minuses to your mental stats, and even if you pretend to be an Elf Later, you still are limited by your mental stat maximums?

And everything else if fluid based on the 'UV node'
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 03:55 PM
That is essentially how I think people would end up building their characters using the rules you laid out.. and I think it would work pretty well, but everyone would be their mental stats plus a huge customizable pool.

The alternative I thew out there (and, admittedly, haven't thought through very far) would basically work the same way except that some of your BP would be fixed, so there would be some skills you just know, and will always know (and which probably define your roll in the group) and the BP which are not fixed would be enough to allow you to customize each simulated character a bit, but not enough for some guy to say "I'm bored of being the face, today, and I think we're going to get into a fight soon, so BRB guys while I respec as a street sam". They might be able to reallocate enough to have something to do in combat, and perform reasonably, but the guy who is actually a street sam (or combat type) in real life would have more and better combat skills, and could count on filling that role in the team in any character he plays.

I think either option would work, but the larger pool of fluid BPs just mean that anyone could become anything at the drop of a hat (or however long it takes to log out and log in again, or whatever you need to do to respec), so thinks like party-role might go out of the window, as any PC is basically interchangeable with any other PC.
sabs
May 24 2011, 04:03 PM
What would be useful would be Qualities/Traits.

Born Combatant
MasterMind
Matrix Guru
etc?
Combat paralysis
Natural Healer
TekHeD
Rigger

That maybe allow you to buy certain groups of skills over 4 at chargen? Or block you from being able to buy certain skill groups over a certain amount?


BlackHat
May 24 2011, 04:10 PM
QUOTE (sabs @ May 24 2011, 11:03 AM) *
That maybe allow you to buy certain groups of skills over 4 at chargen? Or block you from being able to buy certain skill groups over a certain amount?

There is already a rule that says you can only have one skill at 6 or two at 5 (and everything else is 4 or less), so where you thinking these would let you bypass THAT limitation? or that when reallocating points and gaining new skills from the UV node that the rule would be that the new skills have to be 4 or less unless you pick up one of these qualities?
sabs
May 24 2011, 04:12 PM
The Later.
When you're respecing. You just can't go over a 4 pistol, or a 4 infiltration, unless you have one of these qualities. Or if you have the Quality: Unsubtle, you can't buy infiltration over say a 2 (or 3) etc.

And I was thinking this:

Karma lets you raise a skill above your limitation, but when you respec, you lose your karma.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 04:19 PM
Those qualities would help differentiate the PCs (if they had to be maintained and couldn't be respeced). The negative qualities do put some limitations on how you can respec, but I don't know how big a restriction that will end up being, in practice. Not being able to respect to get more than 2 points in infiltration is still a better situation than your typical shadowrunner who has no way of getting any points in infiltration if they didn't put any to begin with.
sabs
May 24 2011, 04:21 PM
Well, it IS a game right? It's a giant videogame for seeing how to survive the coming Horror Show.

The qualities are permanent. And they represent the person's soul/mind/whatever.
Sure, the game can try to give me all the skills of a streetsam, but if I flinch everytime I hear a gun fire, that's gonna be an issue.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 04:40 PM
Yeah, negative qualities that restrict combat skills always seem more "worth it" than those that restrict other skills.

I'm not sure the guy with "demolitions doofus" is any worse off than anyone else (just like a PC who takes "incompetent[demolitions]" isn't really at any disadvantage), and no matter what the restrictions are on how you can respec, the fact that you can respec at all is a big advantage - so not being able to place the points anywhere you want doesn't seem like a big disadvantage to me (and certainly shouldn't be worth BP outside of the UV node).
sabs
May 24 2011, 04:49 PM
I wasn't thinking they would be worth BP smile.gif

Just flavor, based on your character background.

(or maybe negative ones to help buy positive ones)
Aria
May 24 2011, 06:18 PM
I've started a debate biggrin.gif

I hear what you are saying about the stats...will think about having existing characters (with potentially more karma and back history) and then new characters who only need to spend mental BPs for outside the node, possibly some core skills to add flavour and then do everything else 'in node' ...I don't think there will be any out node play in the game but it would be worth having some background for taking the characters into future Emerging games (without all the virtual addons!)

I like the idea of the troops for flavour but don't want them to simply be me deciding what happens and the PCs combat actions being more or less irrelevant. Making them BPs from the character pot would make that character responsible for them (and to a certain extent roleplaying them) and so won't be for everyone. The respecing is meant to come from this pool too as the intention is that all the possible respecs start the mission, the node is just allowing the PCs to pick different ones as they see fit...they don't want cheating either as it would invalidate their program.

Will perhaps start a thread on the forum to discuss a sort of mass combat system that is PC driven...see what ideas get thrown in the pot! Otherwise I'll just go back to them being background players and it's the PCs who do the key stuff
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 07:04 PM
Worth asking the community at large about mass combat, but nothing comes immediately to mind. I would also recommend thinking carefully about the BP costs for these soldiers/allies. 15 BP to control 10 PC-level super-soldiers sounds awesome... but it also sounds like a lot of work if my new elite hit-squad is going to be detailed out. Any PC deciding to control 10 of anything means they're controlling more than half of the team (assuming nobody else takes the option, and assuming these characters are meant to be in the foreground).

Contacts usually cost 5+ BP each (so 10 would be 50) and those are for guys who would NOT be willing to risk their lives for you.
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 07:10 PM
The counterpoint would be that if the troops are meant to be background only, or the PC doesn't have a good sense of their stats or isn't in control of them, then it is unlikely they will want to invest BP in a squad of Ensign "red shirts". When creating Roberts, I didn't pay BP to have a squad tag along with us, so I didn't worry too much about how powerful they needed to be, or whether or not they would survive. If the GM decided to have them all eviscerated by the first drone we encountered, I wouldn't actually be out of anything and would have considered it just a plot point to trim us down to the elite team of shadowrunners you expect. However, if I had invested a chunk of BP in them, and they were killed off right away, I'd probably feel a bit robbed.

(Kind of like every rigger feels, every time a drone/vehicle takes damage) biggrin.gif
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 07:12 PM
Oh! That is another thing. You'll (probably) want to make sure that the role of drone rigger isn't completely overshadowed by the new "troop commander" role. For the BP invested, the troops should be on par with what a rigger could get working for him had that BP been spend on nuyen to buy/customize drones - otherwise why be a drone rigger?
Aria
May 24 2011, 07:48 PM
QUOTE (BlackHat @ May 24 2011, 08:12 PM) *
Oh! That is another thing. You'll (probably) want to make sure that the role of drone rigger isn't completely overshadowed by the new "troop commander" role. For the BP invested, the troops should be on par with what a rigger could get working for him had that BP been spend on nuyen to buy/customize drones - otherwise why be a drone rigger?


True, except I had in mind that the troops would be more abstract than that, drone help the PC actions directly...

check out my thread in the forum if you get a chance? Mass Combat

Thanks for everyone's input...but don't forget we're not done with this IC thread yet biggrin.gif
BlackHat
May 24 2011, 08:12 PM
QUOTE (Aria @ May 24 2011, 02:48 PM) *
..but don't forget we're not done with this IC thread yet biggrin.gif


Was about to bring that very thing up. I'll post something to the IC shortly.
Aria
May 25 2011, 01:00 PM
Another idea for the military feel for the game (rather than the troops thing I originally proposed...)

Check it out (comments welcome!): It's in the mass combat thread (link above), can't seem to get the linking to work at the moment nyahnyah.gif

IC post to come...
mister__joshua
May 26 2011, 08:50 AM
Is any of the shiny combat armour in the room Dwarf sized?
Aria
May 26 2011, 02:00 PM
QUOTE (mister__joshua @ May 26 2011, 09:50 AM) *
Is any of the shiny combat armour in the room Dwarf sized?


I'm sure at least some of it is...milspec armour has to be tailored to its user but these are 'blank' suits and can be worn by anyone at a -1 Reaction penalty (on top of any penalty for the armour being over Body x3)...until fitted properly anyway and you Really haven't got the time for that!
sabs
May 26 2011, 02:43 PM
Any drones, or 1 man vehicles wink.gif
Aria
May 26 2011, 02:55 PM
QUOTE (sabs @ May 26 2011, 03:43 PM) *
Any drones, or 1 man vehicles wink.gif

Well how about 2 hulking anthroform drones outside the door?!? I think any more vehicular drones are likely to be stored in the motor pool area?!?
mister__joshua
May 26 2011, 02:59 PM
QUOTE (Aria @ May 26 2011, 03:00 PM) *
...and you Really haven't got the time for that!


What about if we do an A-Team montage?
sabs
May 26 2011, 03:19 PM
QUOTE (Aria @ May 26 2011, 02:55 PM) *
Well how about 2 hulking anthroform drones outside the door?!? I think any more vehicular drones are likely to be stored in the motor pool area?!?


Of course, I don't have any hacking skills, but can I see if I can access the node and what the Access Control list (ACL) looks like. Do I think I can slave these badboys to my nexus?
Aria
May 26 2011, 04:32 PM
Well you know more about hacking but I would guess that having physical access to their CPUs you should be able to do something quick and dirty!?!
sabs
May 26 2011, 04:39 PM
I DO have hardware skill smile.gif
so yes.. yes I could.
logic(7)+hardware(2)+PuSHeD(1)=10. That's 2.4 hits bought.

Probably take me a minute to do some quick work on em.
Aria
May 27 2011, 11:45 AM
QUOTE (sabs @ May 26 2011, 05:39 PM) *
I DO have hardware skill smile.gif
so yes.. yes I could.
logic(7)+hardware(2)+PuSHeD(1)=10. That's 2.4 hits bought.

Probably take me a minute to do some quick work on em.

Yes, no problem...it will take the others that long to drool over the kit in here... biggrin.gif

Perhaps you could wire in your commlink (and slave to your nexus) and hardwire the other drone therefore bypassing any of their comm systems? This should stop some degree of spoofing shouldn't it?!?
Aria
May 27 2011, 11:52 AM
Continuing the preview of the next game for those who have commented I've done an updated version here for your perusal (changes highlighted in red):

[ Spoiler ]


Particularly keen to hear if you think I've sorted hacker cheating, clarified cha gen and the 'events' section?!?
sabs
May 27 2011, 12:47 PM
I like the hacker cheating. it'll be.. hard to do, and certainly very difficult to have more than 1 or 2 hits .. but it might be 'something'

Technomancers using matrix IP.. that's.. well, that means they get 3 IP for free. That makes them such better characters. I start as a technomancer, and then I slap on a 'big bruiser' persona. And now I'm a troll with 3 IP for free.
BlackHat
May 27 2011, 12:50 PM
QUOTE (Aria @ May 27 2011, 06:52 AM) *
Particularly keen to hear if you think I've sorted hacker cheating, clarified cha gen and the 'events' section?!?


Cheating seems much better. Still a good option, but no longer the only option. Giving TMs the matrix initiative but not hackers pretty much means anyone thinking about taking up that option will want to spend the 5 BP to be a TM instead - particularly because none of the "cheating" rules involve your resonance level (it could be 1) or having any particular complex forms (so you don't have to buy any). If the TM wants to function as a hacker in the simulated matrix it might still be a good idea to do so, but otherwise it seems like it would be 5 BP (a little more if you're augmented) for +2 initiative passes, which is a good deal. This is true for any mundane character, really.


Character generation is also clearer. It isn't actually said anywhere, but you might want to specify that the 200 BP of "core" character should be a subset of what you developed in the 400 BP out of node character (unless you're willing to allow deviations).

The events section section seems fine. It is abstract (which is probably good) but it doesn't require any specific investment in it (raising your edge gives you edge, and this is more of an additional bonus), so I don't think it is as much of a problem that the players won't know the exact stats of the helicopter they might be calling in, etc.
Aria
May 27 2011, 01:00 PM
QUOTE (sabs @ May 27 2011, 01:47 PM) *
I like the hacker cheating. it'll be.. hard to do, and certainly very difficult to have more than 1 or 2 hits .. but it might be 'something'

Technomancers using matrix IP.. that's.. well, that means they get 3 IP for free. That makes them such better characters. I start as a technomancer, and then I slap on a 'big bruiser' persona. And now I'm a troll with 3 IP for free.


Maybe I'm an optimist at heart and don't think anyone would do that just for some points?!? Ok...that one clearly isn't resolved yet nyahnyah.gif It's part of the feel of the UV node that I've already introduced you to but the mechanics need adjusting!

I've also decided to fix 'race' so that mental stats don't jump about...you can play an elf and look like a troll in the UV node but you'll be a decidedly wimpy but charismatic one biggrin.gif
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