If I recall my Shadowrun lore correctly, people are trying to make a secondary skyhook out of Africa so they won't be that much dependant of a monopoly.
Brazil does have a rocket launch facility in Alcântara, Maranhão (here). Launching rockets from the Ecuator line is much cheaper fuel-wise, and if you can get a site whose climate is stable (like, it always rains, but only from 4pm to 5pm and no strong winds) you have a greater launch window.

Now, I don't know if Aztechnology does have space technology, perhaps they would want a facility deep inside the jungle, away from prying eyes to make their own experiments into space (does Blood Magic work in space?)?

I was thinking the Locus could be a Jackpoint rumor mentioned by the Dragon that posts on Jackpoint (whose handle I have forgotten) or maybe Laughing Man.

the idea I had for the 'excuse' for the war was this.

AZT is working on a super nanite version of Agent Orange. It's Nasty, it's self replicating, and it only requires dumping a few nanohives into an area. We'll say it can deforest a square mile of jungle in a matter of hours. They let it slip in Caracas that they're working on this in AZT controlled Columbia.

Amazonia freaks out when they find out. Normally they would hire a shadowrun team, but this is too important. They use official Amazonian Spec Ops guys. Who get caught, on camera, red handed, blowing up a Pharmaceutical Lab that's producing a key antidote for VITAS III, which is a growing concern because there's been a few isolated outbreaks of it recently. (Vitas II mutated)

The AZT brings this evidence to a rare joint session of the UN and Corporate Court, or maybe to both independently Which agrees to look the other way while AZT brings forth the hurt on those evil Amazonians and their eco-terrorists.

Caracas petitions the UN for protection, and the Peace Keeping force is born.
Not to mention it's an excuse for everyone to get ring side seats, and kebitz.

The higher it would be situated, the better, as far as i remember. Northwest of Manaus would be good, for example.
I dunno, need to ask for a physics/astrotech consult.

Bogota might be an amusing place for it
That could be another reason for the issues.

They want to use Bogota for their skyhook. (And this might give them their own base in space, which could perhaps allow them to throw off the worry about the Corp Court.)

Amazon's super-grow is causing issues even in Bogota. The trees are growing back so fast that its' interfering with the launch site? (that seems dubious) but maybe.

Seconded!

I wouldn't have them spread the rumor; I'd have them confirm it. Perhaps with even a touch of surprise from Frosty.
Get a wizkid from Jackpoint, maybe the elf who got chased out of UCAS in Ghost Cartels (Haze, I think?) or Talon saying they've picked up something shiny on the astral while out on a job in the South (plenty of work down there) and they were going to look at it again. Hmmm.

Yup, but we can work with this.

Now, for the timeline. I must admit I am totally lost there. Do we have anything solid save that they invaded in Nov 14, 2072?

Caracas:
Spy Games:
Everyone and their dutch uncle is trying to figure out which mercs got hired by whome for what. Amazonian and AZT spies are running against each other in the alleyways, trying to obtain each other's secrets
War: It's only 100 km away and if you're a Merc group trying to prove your metal, this is where you get hired
Running: Run into the Amazon for 'stuffs', sabotage against AZT or Amazonia, 4 countries, and a half a dozen corps all involved in various dealings.

It's got something for everyone.

While we're here..
Amazonia is: Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, Suriname, Guyane, Guyana, Basin side of Columbia and Venezuella.

What happened to Chile, Peru, and Argentina?

We make a timeline. We have enough motivations and dirt we can make a shadow buildup to the invasion date. The declaration will be Nov 11, the invasion Nov 14.

Why would Aztech work on such a nasty nanite Agent Orange?

Did you make the quotes of Laughing Man and the others up or is that from a book? I'm totally lost on this, I have to admit.

Okay.

Nov 11, 2072: Aztlan, after catching a Black Ops team red handed in a top secret research facility, declares war on Amazonia.
Nov 14, 2072: Aztlan troops cross the border to Amazonia at multiple points. A strong push is made towards disputed Bogota, another heads into Venezuela.


... War! really doesn't give us anything else, does it?



They have their own space station, the Spindle, so it's fair to assume they do.


Of course, the first thing is a rumor, because honestly, why should Aztech be THAT stuopid. But Amazonia believed it and blew up a pharmaceuticals lab where Aztlan is researching HMHVV cures. They also kill a celebrity who'S recently bbeen infected by ghoulism and isreceiving treatment there for good measure.


I'd have it remain a rumor. Maybe have a couple immortals discuss it. ("It's ... such a thing? They now want Amazonia's?" - "Apparently. Why else could they push south from Bogota? There's only that darned jungle there. Only other thing it's good for is the orchids." - "You are so gay." - "You so will soon have no ears at all." - "LOL! I'll see you, sucker.")


Peru used to be a japanese colony and now is trying to come to terms with it'S past. It still has JIS troops, too.
Argentina is the other reasonably powerful nation in South America and (apart from being pretty much a fascist state) has a huge army pointing northwards in case Amazonia wants the Pampas.
Chile is a corp state and more of a rump state, IIRC.

The way I see it:

In 2049, Amazonia annexes Colombia to "protect if from Aztlan".
In the 2050s Bogota is an Amazonian city surrounded by Aztlan moutains. Aztlan uses the city to smuggle its goods into Amazonia and is satisfied with this situation.
In 2063 Aztlan loses part of Denver. In 2064 it loses the Yucatan and Aztechonology's CEO is killed. Aztlan needs to show the world as well as its own population that it's not down yet. It covertly starts a movement for the Colombian Nation and publicly supports it. To show their support, they invade Bogota and create the Colombian state ("under Aztlan protection") in 2065.

In the 2070s, nothing has really changed for Colombians: those who supported Aztlan are now in charge and those who supported Amazonia are now the victims. Those who just support Colombia just tend to disappear. Now it's Amazonia's turn to support the Colombian rebels. Aztlan actions against the cartels go against the agenda of important people in and around Bogota.

Aztlan's actions might serve their expansionist agenda. A full blown war would make things easier for them, but they want to appear as the people pacifying the area, not causing the war. Plus they really don't like Amazonia.
Amazonia wants to stop Aztlan's expansion. They can't start a war for the same reason as Aztlan, but they feel that, with the rebels and the cartel help, they could win it. Plus they really don't like Aztlan.
Cartels wants to keep their control and influence and they've been stockpiling weapons during (and maybe even before) the tempo crisis. Some get support from Amazonia (directly or indirectly) other have support or influence in the Colombian population.
Colombian rebels wants to free Colombia, and everyone's trying to manipulate them into supporting them.
So everybody wants war. Whatever starts it is nearly irrelevant. It could be Aztlan getting a proof that Amazonia is supporting cartels or rebels. It could be Colombians rebels starting a revolution...
And you have a war with 4 sides.

Why Bogota? For the Colombian, it's the Capital city. For the cartels, it's more or less their turf. For Amazonia and Aztlan, it's still the biggest city on the border and it has a strong symbolic value. Whoever controls it, controls the whole region (or so they think).

It makes sense to me this way.

2 reasons
1) Because it'll make deforesting the Amazon that much faster
2) Because it's a great big shiny candy apple to wave infront of Amazonia to get them to do something stupid.
3) Who says they actually worked on it maybe they only made it look like they were.

Wait there's a problem with that.
Bogota is in AZT protected "Free Columbia" Since the 2060's
AZT is already in Bogota, how can they make a push towards it?

Why do people climb mountains?
because they are there.
why do dogs lick their own balls?
BECAUSE THEY CAN

Oh hell, I made those up.

I liked those btw. That's awesome stuff.

Yeah, was nice writing.

Also, I wouldn't spend too much time in Bogota. Just the skinny - what the war oes there, why there is war and how the war is affecting the city and changing it from the pre-war filesdump incorrectly marked as War!. We have much mor eground to cover. Those two cities engulfed in combat, and the jungle. We shouldn't make war's mistake and turn this into too much of a Bogota sourcebook.

So I guess we keep the official stuff so far as we have something solid (which is mercifully few points) and work around it, I guess.

well we alraedy ixnaied the stupid trees
But yes.

Hermit, can you put together a frame/outline of the book so far?

Amazonia/Aztlan war:
Caracas info
Maracaibos info
Bogota Info

That's the 3 major cities/bases of operations.

Amazonian Forward Base(s)
AZT forward base in the Basin
Need a quick write up just to mention. As they're both locations you could find yourself working out of potentially.

War Time Line
Front Line demarcations. Where is the fighting happening, how is it going etc.

Military structure
AZT military what does it look like
Amazonian Military what the heck does THAT look like
Peace Keeping Forces: what do those look like.

Allright, so this is alt.War! one: rumble in the Jungle? Basically Az/Am?

Well, I was thinking that could be the major setting?

We should still cover other "hot spots around the world"
The Chinese Land Wars?
Israel vs the Islamic States
What's going on in Europe?

Something also about Matrix Pay Per View Blood Sports?
Desert Wars!
Survivor! (Which is alot like Karoline's Shadow Wars! Idea.) Every year Teams of Mercs/Shadowrunners are air-lifted into some remote location for a 5 Million Nuyen prize, Last Team/Man Standing. Remote location, only the equipment they can bring with them. You can pay extra to get the full BTL 'real time' sensation (it's not really real time)

Either we basically follow War!'S setup, or we focus our efforts on one region only and release a comprehensive guide for the war there. Issue 1: Az/Am, Issue 2: Desert/Rad Wars, Issue 3: Five Kingdoms (The Chinsese Land Wars), Issue 4: You say Jihad, I say Crusade (Frank's scenario, could also involve Israel and Venice), Issue 5: Russia/Yakut/Baikal, Issue 6: PPG/Japan trade war (oceanic war).

And we should also publish the rules and backdrop book. Fixed stats, fixed rules, all you ever wanted to know about warfare in the 2070s ... possibly covering topics relevant to each war in each book. For gear more helos and light armor in Issue 1, save the tanks for the big land wars and ships for the oceanic war ect ect.

Well, let me pile on a few more ideas.

Regarding anything that could damage the forest on a massive scale. Please remember Yucatán, that is exactly what turned that war against the Azzies, so I would think they will be careful in this regard. Knocking out or capturing the Amazonian locus would go a long way to levelling the playing field. Also the location of the locus will be a closely guarded secret. So it would make sense for the Azzies to do some seemingly random forays trying to come closer to it.

I think the periphery of the war zone is very interesting and could provide other not directly war-related adventure opportunities which could be briefly sketched. Panama/Nicaragua would be one such hotspot. There will be some factions that supply the Amazonians, who will have trouble using the Nicaragua Canal, the Corporate Court might want to capitalise on this by stating their neutral stance and allowing such traffic through the Panama Canal, which of course it meant to prop up their trailing operation in Panama. All kinds sabotage missions for normal runners could revolve around this.

Another is the Caribbean League, the Yucatán support network might be reactivated to help the Amazonians this time. The League still hates the Azzies, right? This could lead to Aztlaner naval forces annexing the three League isles closest to the war zone (I marked them on my map, Aruba and the former Netherlands Antilles). They also might blockade Trinidad and Tobago and patrol the northern Amazonian coast between them and probably the northwestern coast of South America beyond the Panama Canal. That's a huge area to cover of course so there is all kinds of opportunities for smuggling related adventures and high sea stuff.

Then there is Lofwyr, he still is the Loremaster and Amazonia is the appointed protector of the Ashes of the Great Tree. So he could at some point intervene in the whole affair maybe a very specific single engagement of some SK special forces related to the Ashes.

Those are all good ideas.

I also want to see:

Matrix Warfare on the Front Lines of Today's Armies

My view of Modern (2070s) warfare has always been that.
1) They're running TacNets
2) There is a constant EW/Cybercombat war going on during any conflict to give 1 side the 'matrix Advantage'
3) Grunts today have more info at their fingertips than they know what to do with.
4) They have a huge amount of Drone support.

It's something we should talk about
AZT is using Drone armies and Tacnets being run by groups of Combat Spyders
While Amazonia is running Thought Linked troops who have access to Mages with Detect Enemy and Detect Life.

A very different setup on each side.

I guess the first thing is.. are we stickign with Azt/Amazonia. I think we've managed to build something that's a worthwhile setup.. and we have enough ideas to actually start building pieces of it.

According to Target: Wastelands pages 77-78, and Corporate Guide, page 88, Aztechnology relies a lot on the Buttercup-owned Shibata Construction & Engineering and other corporations for space operations.

About the skyhook, I'd quote Corporate Guide, page 69.

This could be another good reason why they're trying to establish land supremacy in northern South America.

Why not release this in episodes?

There's nothing stopping us from writing about the wars in all their glory - but there are many. Let us start with the rewrite/remake of what War! is, then we can branch out where we want to go - Desert Wars, Survivor, Asia, Pirates of the Seven Seas, and so on.

That was my idea. Episodes/Issues

Would also make the writing easier on us and allow us to release the gear in bits where the scenario offers immediate applicability (unlike Bogota for supercarriers and tanks).

And thanks for the input, Nath. Also, would you like to participate?

I think we already had enough brainstorming to move on and start writing.

So, how are we going to do this? Google docs?

We need a manager to define deadlines and divide the work.

Yes. It may not have come across as such, but I was agreeing with you. I am not feeling well today.

The Skyhook site in Venezuela...Hmm. That may very well end up being around Maracaibo because of proximity to the ports.

I'd like to do this on our own little forum where we coordinate and drafts are posted. I'd say we agree on deadlines and do this as a team, then review each other, or maybe Neuroses can help us there (I get this right that we ALL are non-natives right now? So a native to polish might be in order).

Edit: No, Doc likely is an English native as well.

Never worked with google docs, so I cannot really say if that would work better. I'd like to have the possibility of coordination via a forum or other relayed messages service, though.


No prob, I thought I had not been clear enough.


That could also be a reason for Amazonia to push there. "No evil technology in our South America! Sirrug says RAWR!"

Actually, Sirrug could attack the prelim clearing and construction and mapping crews on that site to send a message to Aztlan.

Maracaibos is in fact a good site for it.
Sirrug could try. But even Sirrug might not do that. Given the CorpCourt's interest in the project.

I have issues with Google Docs and work, they tend to firewall block the damn thing.

Can we ask the Happy Dumpshock people for a locked sub-forum?
Is that a possibility?

I like the idea of multiple 'issues'

First up being Amz/Atz

DO an outline of the Issue.
See who wants to work on what.
Get first drafts in, and see if we have good stuff, or complete drek.

I'm sort of a native speaker. I speak English fluently, although I have the occasional French idiosyncracy that slips in. What I get for moving to the States at 9

Doesn't someone have a huge Caracas write up already in existence? would they be willing to contribute a cut down, say 6-7 page write up?

Or that. I'd like for the guys from the Gaming Den to be able to have a look at it too, though ... and give soem input sometime. Some of it here has been quite valuable. Hence my idea of an own little place. But a DS subforum would also be nice.

Moo hoo ha ha.

What Abschalten and I have been creating for Caracas would fill its own sourcebook. I'll chat with him and see what we'd be willing to pare down - for now, there's a lot on locations and not as much on culture and such but we've got a local Caracan in the PbP game so I'll see what I can do about drawing him in to fill the blanks, as it were. 7-8 pages is doable for what we're looking at.

I think Abs might like a bit more reasoning for the stuff going on in Caracas now.

Only some?
*BIG PUPPY EYES*

Don't sweat it, he's probably talking about half the crap on Auchwitz I put in the other War thread.

Well, whats' the stuff going on in Caracas
We can certainly work it in.

I think Caracas being the Free City where everyone who isn't AZT or AMZ who wants to play in the sand box is.. including UN observers, etc... makes for alot of shadowrunning possibilities.

I'm actually kidding Just thought it was funny.

I liked the crap on Auschwitz you put in the other thread.

I mean, you know, for crap on Auschwitz. I'd play that adventure.

Yeah, that adventure was playable. I might even run it myself sometime.

We could host Caracas as part of alt.Shadowrun, but we certainly could work stuff from Caracas into alt.War 1: Rumble in the Jungle.

i would not.
too scary <.<

Currently, Caracas is on the brink. AZT has sent Shorned Ones into the city in large numbers to clear out, well, pretty much anyone that AZT doesn't like. This includes any Shadowrunners that they may have dirt on, influential people that don't have direct Azzie ties, leading members of the more powerful gangs in town, and other folks.

They're also doing it in as flashy and noisy a manner as possible to scare the populace into accepting 'assistance' from a more stable government - Aztlan. Survivors of the Shorned Ones strikes are often blamed for the attacks, likely prompted by other AZT operatives and the gangs are busy fighting one anotehr rather than the Azzie troops that are going to roll in. They're mobilizing to invade under the auspices of 'national emergency' much like Pueblo did with LA, and only the guerilla fighters of Amazonia, Shadowrunners, and the gangs can slow down or stop the incursions.

A lot of the Caracan information we had is, as I said, locational. We've started painting Caracas' Z-rated areas such as La Rinconada, the red light districts of Nueva Caracas, middling areas such as La Guaira and Parque del Este, and commercial zones like Chacao or even El Avila where the super-rich hide.

Through the IC thread, we're discovering how the city works in regards to the shadows. Caracas requires you to know people, lots of people. It has a sense of social credit like LA or Hong Kong has - knowing the right people in the right places can put you above reproach in the shadows, and a bribe in the right area can turn a bloodsworn enemy into a temporary friend. State intelligence agencies, particularily the CAS, have assets in the area to slow the Azzies down by any clandestine means at their disposal, and that means shadowrunners.

The Catholic Church is also in the area, doing what they can to provide humanitarian aid. According to Shadows of Latin America (of what we have of it), Caracas has had UN peacekeepers enforcing the borders for decades. I wouldn't mind cutting this part out until the states of emergency are declared and the city starts to burn - the UN starts to mobilize, but the Azzies are there first. Aztlan wants the city to capitulate, but if they can hold out until sufficient pressure from the UN causes the Azzies to turn away...

That's what I like. That an the angle that you'Re there to try and release them from their curse and it wraps up in this creepy mexican standoff while the sylvestrine uses the magical pen of damnation (it sure writes in blood and faint screams are heared every time it touches paper. The screams, pleas, curses and cries of those being tortured for this man's sick experiments.

Nice outset for Caracas. Really colors up the city. did you work in the stuff from Ghost Cartels too?

I thought about making the research assistant a descendant of one of the guards or even the warden, and she has to sign the order in her blood, killing her in a final act of absolution for the sins of her bloodline.

In all seriousness, I might see about developing a whole arc, putting it to paper, and then posting it for people to use.

Abschalten is working in what he can from Ghost Cartels - the IC thread picks up at the tail end of the campaign. KondOrchid is mroe or less through, Rivieros has disappeared, and now Caracas is starting to burn as the Azzies start to capitalize on their gains. Meanwhile the UN starts to mobilize because of the destabilization in the city.

Currently, I have no idea of what part I could actually write. Plus, my writing skill in English is somewhat subpar (not being a native speaker and that). I can at least provide some fact checking, something I'm quite good at.

What will differentiate this from many pieces is the research we do and the way we make it fit in the existing canon structure (provided we treat War! as something that doesn't exist). That being said, you provide a valuable service.

And the ritual will KILL HER. And she KNOWS.


It's true, nice things can grow from shit. Yes, if you feel the inspiration, do. I'm starting to be excited about this too.


Don't sweat it; except for Doc, hardly anyone on this project is. But yes, fact checking would also be VERY welcome.

What is your time table on the Caracas thread?
I like that. It's a nice setup.
Maybe it's like Rwanda. The UN is there, but their 'Rules of Engagement' suck. They aren't allowed to do anything. Just keep the UN workers safe.

As we move from 2072 to 2073, perhaps we can make things change.
The Caracas Leadership approaches the UN, and Corporate Court, asking for help from AZT. Maybe a group of shadowrunners provides enough proof to sway the outcome.
The CAS lands a real force in Caracas. The UCAS feels obliged to do the same. (They've got a Whose the Real US competition going). The French Foreign Legion, Ares, Renraku, bring in a more unified force to stabalize Caracas after a certain time?

The Caracas IC thread is currently predating War! by exactly one year - the first post was dated 17 November, 2071. I believe that Ghost Cartels was right around the same timeline.

In the release of recent books, we haven't had any information from South America save that there's going to be groundbreaking on the Skyhook soonish, the Cartels get nearly decapitated, and then OMGBOGOTA.

If we went with the IC thread, then Amazonia getting directly and overtly involved in Caracas with Aztlan would be reason enough for the UN to send a unilateral peacekeeping force with units from all member nations - including CAS, UCAS, Germany, perhaps even the NAN. Amazonia, provided they're a member (I think they are) would be pushing for them to send the force, whereas Aztlan is fighting it under the auspices that it isn't necessary, they're a peacekeeping operation, spin spin spin.

Ideally, and I'd have to talk to Abs about what's going down, the Azzies would blockade the port while their teams worked, offer humanitarian aid in the form of bombs and bullets, and when the city completely implodes then they would roll in their land forces. Right now we're barely three or four days in and the Aztlan navy is starting to blockade La Guaira.

I could see the Azzies setting up a forward operating base where they're 'observing and containing', the Amazonians infiltrating the city to set up a resistance to Aztlan, and member nations of the UN who have assets on the ground starting to hunker in and do the same thing while the official declaration of assistance to the Free City of Caracas gets mired in so much red tape it takes them a year to start sending anyone.

Meanwhile, the shadow war in Caracas, Maracaibo and other places gets so hot that when the Amazonians get caught with a black ops team on a sanctioned run in the Azzie forward base, they declare open war. In response, Amazonia gets nailed to the cross by the UN, but the unilateral force still moves in to 'restore order'. Now you've got all these factions heating up the shadow war even further.

Gonna have to think about the possibles. It really depends on where Abs wants to take the Caracas thread, and I don't want to tie his hands on what he has planned.

Yeah, we don't want to do that either. Although it effects what we want to write pretty severely

I like your idea of an AMZ sanctioned run even better than my Agent Orange idea.. although I guess they could be the same thing. Well, let us know so that you guys can use the setting in a direction you like