Not quite understanding the sudden resistance to the project.
I mean, it's not like we're complaining about the art.
A chief problem with War! is that it isn't about war. It's about Bogota. Rename the book Target: Bogota and it would be accurate.
Read the book. There's nothing about the war in it beyond some nebulous alliterations to actions somewhere in South America, nebulous accusations as to the start, and a pay table for grunts.
So yes, we're netbooking it to make it about the actual war, and war in all its glory. Rumble in the Jungle(SouthAm), Street Fight(Urban Warfare in Europe), War Games(Desert Wars, Survivor), Comrades in Arms(the rebellion in Yakut), A Land War in Asia(you get the picture) - the list can go on. With every theater we can bring more flavor to the setting as a whole, paint a brighter picture of areas that are currently grayscale, and show how the shadows of war can mean big business for people that don't want to fight in it.
Full Version: alt.WAR
Yeah, I don't get it either.
It's not even like our alternate War! is actually going to "break from canon" in a huge way.
I mean, okay we're making Bogota look less stupid, and focusing on Caracas and Maracaibos (both of which aren't even covered). But the basics, AZT/AMZ go to war, roar! Is still there.
It's not even like our alternate War! is actually going to "break from canon" in a huge way.
I mean, okay we're making Bogota look less stupid, and focusing on Caracas and Maracaibos (both of which aren't even covered). But the basics, AZT/AMZ go to war, roar! Is still there.
So, besides describing/fixing some Theaters of War, do you guys think in doing EXACTLY what War! didn't? Describe how Modern Warfare is implemented in the Sixth World?
I'm not in the military, but I know a lot of guys here are/were in the military and could give as feedback about this. What you guys think?
I'm not in the military, but I know a lot of guys here are/were in the military and could give as feedback about this. What you guys think?
That is definitely one of the things I want to work on.
Describe 3 kinds of military:
Highly Modernized, technology driven Militaries (UCAS, CAS, Ares, S&K)
Modernized, Mixed Militaries (AZT)
Awakened, Magical militaries (AMZ, and many others)
What does combat look like when your primary air superiority units are Wyverns and Drakes.
I have this idea for the Ares/S&K/UCAS/CAS:
individual grunts are highly specialized and trained, and the more traditional "body count" troops are all drones.
Otomos, Rotor drones, etc.
How do Hackers work in the Combat Zone.
The HQ Hacker, the Operational Theatre Hacker, The On the Ground Communications specialist.
A Corporal with advanced comm gear, including 2 military grade commlinks.
TacNets and securing/protecting them
Agent assistants for every Trooper.
The Ability not only to read TacNets, but for Squad leaders and intel people to update them with information real time. Yes, the TacNet shows 5 people. But your Sniper Overwatch guy is 'manually' updating information, marking which ones are higher threat, etc.
Tactical Hacker vs AI vs TacSoft
Describe 3 kinds of military:
Highly Modernized, technology driven Militaries (UCAS, CAS, Ares, S&K)
Modernized, Mixed Militaries (AZT)
Awakened, Magical militaries (AMZ, and many others)
What does combat look like when your primary air superiority units are Wyverns and Drakes.
I have this idea for the Ares/S&K/UCAS/CAS:
individual grunts are highly specialized and trained, and the more traditional "body count" troops are all drones.
Otomos, Rotor drones, etc.
How do Hackers work in the Combat Zone.
The HQ Hacker, the Operational Theatre Hacker, The On the Ground Communications specialist.
A Corporal with advanced comm gear, including 2 military grade commlinks.
TacNets and securing/protecting them
Agent assistants for every Trooper.
The Ability not only to read TacNets, but for Squad leaders and intel people to update them with information real time. Yes, the TacNet shows 5 people. But your Sniper Overwatch guy is 'manually' updating information, marking which ones are higher threat, etc.
Tactical Hacker vs AI vs TacSoft
Yeah, ECM and ECCM would be huge in modern battlefields. The ability to use the enemies' drone against itself or at least disable them is huge.
But when you're fighting an army that's probably 80% awakened, and 20-30% Mage or Spirit based. Drones are your lifeline. OCR of 5+ REALLY helps cut down on loses. Compared to 1 mage being able to take out an entire squad of grunts in 2-3 rounds.
Sabs, what bout cutting the costs? Why spend that much on a grunt, when you can have a dozen of them instead. That's probably Aztechnology's/Atzlan's way of doing it. Except for special forces, for example...
Absolutely..
That's why AZT is a different military type than say UCAS.
But AZT's been involved in a land war with the Yucatan for a while now. It's not clear how much population drain they're feeling from that war, and now starting another one.
So AZT tactics may also be evolving.
That's why AZT is a different military type than say UCAS.
But AZT's been involved in a land war with the Yucatan for a while now. It's not clear how much population drain they're feeling from that war, and now starting another one.
So AZT tactics may also be evolving.
QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 22 2010, 05:52 PM) 
But AZT's been involved in a land war with the Yucatan for a while now. It's not clear how much population drain they're feeling from that war, and now starting another one.
You know that the war is officially over since 2064?There are a lot of discussion threads about all kinds of aspects of the military on Dumpshock. They might provide some information and solutions. Since not everybody reads the community projects, at some point it can make sense to make a brainstorming thread to open the discussion to a wider audience. Though that usually only leads to usable results if one has a more formalised structure for giving suggestions like a questionnaire or something similar, that helps with collecting the input. And of course it's not necessary if there are already more ideas than can be included.
I wouldn't mind doing an In The Army Now supplement that gives people an idea of how a combined-arms company is supposed to work.
As with everything, it just requires some research to make sure we're not stepping on a land mine.
As with everything, it just requires some research to make sure we're not stepping on a land mine.
I need to relook at the timelines for some stuff. I couldn't remember when the Yucatan war ended.. in SR3 or in SR4.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Dec 22 2010, 02:52 PM)
I wouldn't mind doing an In The Army Now supplement that gives people an idea of how a combined-arms company is supposed to work.
As with everything, it just requires some research to make sure we're not stepping on a land mine.
As with everything, it just requires some research to make sure we're not stepping on a land mine.
I would vote that as priority one. Then we move on to battlefields around the world.
I agree with Sabs, at least part of this project should focus on the individual combatants at different tech levels.
Backwoods militia
Standard grunts
Special Ops,
We could even go further and describe how mercenaries function at similar levels.
As far as gear goes, I think it will be impossible to avoid some kind of power creep, I'm okay with that though.
Backwoods militia
Standard grunts
Special Ops,
We could even go further and describe how mercenaries function at similar levels.
As far as gear goes, I think it will be impossible to avoid some kind of power creep, I'm okay with that though.
Quick comments:
– I'm SO not opposing the project
– In my observation, the aim goes beyond "fixing" Az/Am, it's about re-doing Az/Am while claiming to fix WAR!
– Fixing WAR! in the sense some said they wanted to fix it does not NECESSARILY mean re-doing Az/Am
– Yes, "tweaking" Az/Am is ONE way to do it.
– I think that tewaking may not be enough /slash/ tweaking in the sense you mean it involves actually leaving the canonical course of things
– All I'm saying is: IF you do that, think about what the long-term consequences MAY be.
– Also: Think about if redoing not THIS "War!" book, but A "War!" book HAS to involve an in-depth coverage of Az/Am
– IF not, THEN drop Az/Am and focus on OTHER conflicts (there are ALWAYS more wars raging in ANY given year across the globe!)
That's all.
And: Twuz just a suggestion. Do whatever you please, please
– I'm SO not opposing the project
– In my observation, the aim goes beyond "fixing" Az/Am, it's about re-doing Az/Am while claiming to fix WAR!
– Fixing WAR! in the sense some said they wanted to fix it does not NECESSARILY mean re-doing Az/Am
– Yes, "tweaking" Az/Am is ONE way to do it.
– I think that tewaking may not be enough /slash/ tweaking in the sense you mean it involves actually leaving the canonical course of things
– All I'm saying is: IF you do that, think about what the long-term consequences MAY be.
– Also: Think about if redoing not THIS "War!" book, but A "War!" book HAS to involve an in-depth coverage of Az/Am
– IF not, THEN drop Az/Am and focus on OTHER conflicts (there are ALWAYS more wars raging in ANY given year across the globe!)
That's all.
And: Twuz just a suggestion. Do whatever you please, please
Firstly, sorry for being absent this day so far; been doing christmas shopping. Fun.
Now, I'll get back to a number of things.
Actually, at least that. Maybe, if we work on several issues at a time, it might be a subforum with more sub forums - one per issue - and in those an organsiatioonal thread, a sticky with style guide, relevant shadowposters, and an outline, and chapter threads. If that's too much, we'll go with one thread per chapter and stick to one issue at a time. Thanks for hosting us.
Crap writing. But just because soem old geezer and his asskissers in some obscure forum somewhere on the matrix didn'T think it important doesn't mean it wasn't, does it?
Possibly, the war was going on undeclared for some time before Aztech decided to move on to the Locus and declare war openly. That, or the stuff in JackPoint is justb crap and wrong all over, which I could live with just as well.
Actually we aim to keep the Az/Am stuff to describing all the things only glossed over or not at all explained in War! - like the "stuff" from page 20, in a chapter/issue that focuses on Caracas and the explosion of this powder keg.
Again, I see your point. But we don't want to rewrite much of the stuff from War! (much), not more than absolutely necessary (retcon the stuff on the 'it's all subjective anyways' line that's been firmly established in SR). We mainly want to shift the point of view from Bogotá (where War! does nothing to talk about the war there, either, it sounds like a travel guide for moderately peaqceful Bogotá) to other, more likely and more fighty theaters - the basin and Venzuela. After all, there's supposed to be a WAR there. War! certainly does not give that impression.
Now, I'll get back to a number of things.
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0)
As Grinder mentioned, there's a discussion started about a sub-forum for your project. I'd assume you're looking to do something like a seperate thread for each chapter, perhaps sub-chapter? Could you give us a bit better of an idea of what you're looking for?
Actually, at least that. Maybe, if we work on several issues at a time, it might be a subforum with more sub forums - one per issue - and in those an organsiatioonal thread, a sticky with style guide, relevant shadowposters, and an outline, and chapter threads. If that's too much, we'll go with one thread per chapter and stick to one issue at a time. Thanks for hosting us.
QUOTE ("Abschalten")
I find it hard that Caracas saw military action from Aztlan forces in late 2071, and the war didn't really get going until 2073. Sourcebooks leading up to the November 20th, 2071 events mentioned that Caracas was a powderkeg that could throw the entire region into war. And yet the story as written by War seems to indicate that it was just... "stuff." Like, it didn't do anything. Caracas was just some tiny footnote of news buried somewhere at the bottom of page 20 and promptly forgotten about.
Crap writing. But just because soem old geezer and his asskissers in some obscure forum somewhere on the matrix didn'T think it important doesn't mean it wasn't, does it?
Possibly, the war was going on undeclared for some time before Aztech decided to move on to the Locus and declare war openly. That, or the stuff in JackPoint is justb crap and wrong all over, which I could live with just as well.
QUOTE ("Raben-AAS")
Maybe, instead of doing alt.War, you should do add.War? If you cover battlefields/warzones in Vietnam, Siberia, Australia, Greece, ANYwhere but those hotspots that were covered by War!, you could make The War Netbook much more useable.
Actually we aim to keep the Az/Am stuff to describing all the things only glossed over or not at all explained in War! - like the "stuff" from page 20, in a chapter/issue that focuses on Caracas and the explosion of this powder keg.
Again, I see your point. But we don't want to rewrite much of the stuff from War! (much), not more than absolutely necessary (retcon the stuff on the 'it's all subjective anyways' line that's been firmly established in SR). We mainly want to shift the point of view from Bogotá (where War! does nothing to talk about the war there, either, it sounds like a travel guide for moderately peaqceful Bogotá) to other, more likely and more fighty theaters - the basin and Venzuela. After all, there's supposed to be a WAR there. War! certainly does not give that impression.
I had a question about TacNets.
Do we want to -relook- at how TacNets work?
Not so much the add rating to dicepool part. I think that works fine.
But more, from a Tactical point of view.
How to add someone to a TacNet, who perhaps doesn't have 99 sensors.
Overwatch Tacticians doing predictive analysis.
In my mind, I envision 2 skills, though perhaps they could be 1.
1 is a language skill or Knowledge skill: Military TacNet Jargon - Military group: Which means you know how to read and more importantly add information to your team tacnet quickly
and a skill that teaches you how to muck with other people's tacnets.
logic+tacnet skill every hit drops the opposing teams tacnet bonus by 1, or increasing yours back up to the rating of the tacnet.
Hackers on either side spend a lot of time trying to get their teams to do certain things to muck with the opposing teams tacnet.
I'm still mumbling it all in my head.
Do we want to -relook- at how TacNets work?
Not so much the add rating to dicepool part. I think that works fine.
But more, from a Tactical point of view.
How to add someone to a TacNet, who perhaps doesn't have 99 sensors.
Overwatch Tacticians doing predictive analysis.
In my mind, I envision 2 skills, though perhaps they could be 1.
1 is a language skill or Knowledge skill: Military TacNet Jargon - Military group: Which means you know how to read and more importantly add information to your team tacnet quickly
and a skill that teaches you how to muck with other people's tacnets.
logic+tacnet skill every hit drops the opposing teams tacnet bonus by 1, or increasing yours back up to the rating of the tacnet.
Hackers on either side spend a lot of time trying to get their teams to do certain things to muck with the opposing teams tacnet.
I'm still mumbling it all in my head.
QUOTE (raben-aas @ Dec 22 2010, 06:50 PM)
– In my observation, the aim goes beyond "fixing" Az/Am, it's about re-doing Az/Am while claiming to fix WAR!
– Fixing WAR! in the sense some said they wanted to fix it does not NECESSARILY mean re-doing Az/Am
– Yes, "tweaking" Az/Am is ONE way to do it.
– Fixing WAR! in the sense some said they wanted to fix it does not NECESSARILY mean re-doing Az/Am
– Yes, "tweaking" Az/Am is ONE way to do it.
Here's the problem with the Az/Am conflict: War! doesn't describe it worth shit. By adding to it, we're able to make a theatre of engagement actually engaging since canon has hinted towards this building since the Yucatan, and expand the conflict to actually be one. We have the potential to give the conflict a level of detail that even the Yucatan didn't get in terms of scope and timeline, and expand the conflict so people who want to play the area as mercenaries or as Shadowrunners both have plenty of options.
Everybody wins.
QUOTE
– I think that tweaking may not be enough /slash/ tweaking in the sense you mean it involves actually leaving the canonical course of things
– All I'm saying is: IF you do that, think about what the long-term consequences MAY be.
– All I'm saying is: IF you do that, think about what the long-term consequences MAY be.
Trouble is, there are areas where War! has already left canon, primarily Bogota itself, where it sits on the Az/Am border, and its status as a DMZ/Free City. Centering a war here between magical insurgents and a large combined-arms regimented force is silly for multiple reasons - one, it's high up so there's not as much vegitation as people think; two, it's high up so it's really hard to get armor in and out of there, and three; it doesn't serve a very large strategic purpose when cities such as Maracaibo or Caracas do. Bogota works when you can airlift large amounts of materiel in and thanks to AAA on both sides - nobody can.
QUOTE
– Also: Think about if redoing not THIS "War!" book, but A "War!" book HAS to involve an in-depth coverage of Az/Am
– IF not, THEN drop Az/Am and focus on OTHER conflicts (there are ALWAYS more wars raging in ANY given year across the globe!)
– IF not, THEN drop Az/Am and focus on OTHER conflicts (there are ALWAYS more wars raging in ANY given year across the globe!)
Not sure what you mean, here. Of course we have to involve in-depth coverage of Az/Am. CGL in this case did not, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let people spend money on this book and not have the resource they wanted when they purchased it. I personally spent $20 so I could get angry, bitch about it here on DS, find a like-minded audience, and embark on an absinthe-fueled spree of creativity that may well give the people what they want - and by damn if they want to buy us absinthe I do not think we will complain.
I see the layout of book 1 something liek this:
1) Introduction 1-2 pages
2) An overview of the conflict 4-5 pages a timeline from the end of Ghost Cartels till sometime around 2073
3) The Front Lines!
4) Military Organizations involved I'd like to see this be 40-50 pages
5) The Matrix on the Battlefield 5-8 pages
6) Magic on the battlefield 5-8 pages
7) Gear and coolshit the rest
A map, maybe several maps, showing the front lines in several points along the timeline..
1) Introduction 1-2 pages
2) An overview of the conflict 4-5 pages a timeline from the end of Ghost Cartels till sometime around 2073
3) The Front Lines!
a) Maracaibo - 4-5 pages maybe more, the skyhook, the oil fields, etc.
b) Caracas 6-7 pages, with a teaser about a Caracas full book to come later
c) Bogota 4-5 pages on Bogota, and the Basin Forward Advanced Base (if we decide to have one)
4) Military Organizations involved I'd like to see this be 40-50 pages
a) AZT - War on 5,000a soldier or less (5 to 10 pages) including motivations and major leaders in the area, tactics, etc
b) AMZ - Magical guerillas (5-10 pages) same as AZT write up
c) UCAS/CAS - High Tech, Low Numbers
d) Ares/S&K - Who do you think /makes/ the High tech toys
e) Mercs - A range of Merc units. From those barely better than a shadowrun team, to highly trained, highly equiped special forces mercs.
5) The Matrix on the Battlefield 5-8 pages
6) Magic on the battlefield 5-8 pages
7) Gear and coolshit the rest
A map, maybe several maps, showing the front lines in several points along the timeline..
I think a specialization for Electronic Warfare would be better than a new skill. For now, i think the only one skill added was Enchanting, but I'm not really sure. And a knowledge skill of Military TacNets, Military Tactics, or Military Operations would suffice for the 'know how to mess with their tacnet' part...
I think TacNets work fine, we should focus more on who should have what level of TN, and how different are military TN's from th usual shadowrunning/security kind.
I think TacNets work fine, we should focus more on who should have what level of TN, and how different are military TN's from th usual shadowrunning/security kind.
QUOTE (Kot @ Dec 22 2010, 08:13 PM)
I think a specialization for Electronic Warfare would be better than a new skill. For now, i think the only one skill added was Enchanting, but I'm not really sure. And a knowledge skill of Military TacNets, Military Tactics, or Military Operations would suffice for the 'know how to mess with their tacnet' part...
I think TacNets work fine, we should focus more on who should have what level of TN, and how different are military TN's from th usual shadowrunning/security kind.
I think TacNets work fine, we should focus more on who should have what level of TN, and how different are military TN's from th usual shadowrunning/security kind.
You know that's actually fine
Part of the idea, is I was thinking how cool it would be..
if you were a street sam/Soldier of Fortune, and all of a sudden your Overwatch Hacker says:
"Dude, I want you to count to ten, do a backflip over that fence, and shoot a short burst at a 30 degrees, 6 minutes, then duck. On my mark.."
"Mark"
What can I say I like cool style.
But EW with a specialty, and a knowledge skillf or military tacnets is good.
And yes, how do Military grade tacnets differ. What does a TacNet being run by a Nexus, with 3-4 dedicated military agents, and 2-3 tactical hackers running overwatch and analysis /look/ like.
And that's definitely cool. Especially if we don't go the 'higher bonuses from tacnet' road, and just decide that Military TacNets are better because of their software, sensors, and the fact that almost every soldier has the same gear that TN uses.
Hmmm... And what about field TacNet specialists? Like comm specialists in the field, they could fight only when necessary, probably jumping in and out of VR all the time, coordinating the whole squad/section.
P.S. I've heard the FORMOZA special unit here in Poland used that kind of communication, with coordinators that watch cam helmet data, give suggestions, sitrep, and stuff. It's still not an official gear, but i know that unit experimented with a lot of things - it's something like the Navy Seals.
Hmmm... And what about field TacNet specialists? Like comm specialists in the field, they could fight only when necessary, probably jumping in and out of VR all the time, coordinating the whole squad/section.
P.S. I've heard the FORMOZA special unit here in Poland used that kind of communication, with coordinators that watch cam helmet data, give suggestions, sitrep, and stuff. It's still not an official gear, but i know that unit experimented with a lot of things - it's something like the Navy Seals.
I definitely don't want to go with better bonuses. I think 4 is alredy a huge leg up.
Well someone in VR on the ground with the squad is probably a liability. Especially in close jungle.
One of the things I'd love to see with military grade tacnets, is not only do they give you bonuses. They remove negatives. Specificaly the ones with regards to blind fire, etc.
A TacNet with enough sensors being fed into it, could potentially do things like Outline that Invisible Caster in giant NEON, because.. yes he's invisible. But he's also disturbing trees, blades of grass, people are subconciously moving around him.
Yes, it's like the stuff the Seals have, except on Crack.
Well someone in VR on the ground with the squad is probably a liability. Especially in close jungle.
One of the things I'd love to see with military grade tacnets, is not only do they give you bonuses. They remove negatives. Specificaly the ones with regards to blind fire, etc.
A TacNet with enough sensors being fed into it, could potentially do things like Outline that Invisible Caster in giant NEON, because.. yes he's invisible. But he's also disturbing trees, blades of grass, people are subconciously moving around him.
Yes, it's like the stuff the Seals have, except on Crack.
QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 22 2010, 09:05 PM)
Well someone in VR on the ground with the squad is probably a liability. Especially in close jungle.
And we have one difference in jungle combat - VR is risky. In urban, or regular battlefield environments the specialist could always find some cover, and keep close to support gunners. And the team would have his back through the TacNet. Off course he would take part in combat, but with special 'Tactical' moves, like testing conditions, ranges, popping smoke grenades (yes, a TN operator with a Grenade Launcher that allows quick ammo type swapping would be a great asset). And off course he would double as a comm specialist. That role probably even evolved from a comm specialist.
QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 22 2010, 09:05 PM)
One of the things I'd love to see with military grade tacnets, is not only do they give you bonuses. They remove negatives. Specificaly the ones with regards to blind fire, etc.
A TacNet with enough sensors being fed into it, could potentially do things like Outline that Invisible Caster in giant NEON, because.. yes he's invisible. But he's also disturbing trees, blades of grass, people are subconciously moving around him.
A TacNet with enough sensors being fed into it, could potentially do things like Outline that Invisible Caster in giant NEON, because.. yes he's invisible. But he's also disturbing trees, blades of grass, people are subconciously moving around him.
Well, regular TacNets do that too... Hmmm. Maybe we'll make a few TacNet program options, like those in Unwired? To simulate different types of TacNets for different types of units.
It's true in Urban Settings, that comms guy is actually very useful. He's also a hell of alot easier to protect.
A minigrenade launcher with multiple clips and ammo selection being fired from VR.. would in fact be super useful.
TacNet program options make alot of sense.. and maybe some of those add on programs?
A minigrenade launcher with multiple clips and ammo selection being fired from VR.. would in fact be super useful.
TacNet program options make alot of sense.. and maybe some of those add on programs?
Do what I always wanted to do: a grenade launcher revolver fed. This way, with smart ammo selection you can choose any shot any time. Increase the drum to 8 shots and now you can have 2 shots of 4 different grenades without having to wait to reload.
My former weapons specialist wanted to design a weapon like this but didn't have the resources (i.e. a weapons' facility). So I settled for a GL-6 grenade launcher with ammo selection, built-in silencer, extra clip and ruthenium coating
My former weapons specialist wanted to design a weapon like this but didn't have the resources (i.e. a weapons' facility). So I settled for a GL-6 grenade launcher with ammo selection, built-in silencer, extra clip and ruthenium coating
As far as I recall, anyone who can't tote a weapon and fire back in a combat situation is someone who shouldn't be there in the first place. 
Troops on a patrol should all be equipped to fight, not conk out once the shooting starts. I would actually figure on any VR movement coming from Central, where the matrix operators sit in air-conditioned trailers and provide ranged drone support and monitor communications.
Might have your comm monkey on the ground with some AR-hacking skillz, but I don't think either side would go full VR unless they were penetrating a base.
Signal ratings give some sort of obscene range now anyway, so I wouldn't put it past the Azzies to have a commsat in sync over the area so they can bounce communications off it back to base. That is, if they're even that far away.
Troops on a patrol should all be equipped to fight, not conk out once the shooting starts. I would actually figure on any VR movement coming from Central, where the matrix operators sit in air-conditioned trailers and provide ranged drone support and monitor communications.
Might have your comm monkey on the ground with some AR-hacking skillz, but I don't think either side would go full VR unless they were penetrating a base.
Signal ratings give some sort of obscene range now anyway, so I wouldn't put it past the Azzies to have a commsat in sync over the area so they can bounce communications off it back to base. That is, if they're even that far away.
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Dec 22 2010, 08:36 PM)
Do what I always wanted to do: a grenade launcher revolver fed. This way, with smart ammo selection you can choose any shot any time. Increase the drum to 8 shots and now you can have 2 shots of 4 different grenades without having to wait to reload.
My former weapons specialist wanted to design a weapon like this but didn't have the resources (i.e. a weapons' facility). So I settled for a GL-6 grenade launcher with ammo selection, built-in silencer, extra clip and ruthenium coating
My former weapons specialist wanted to design a weapon like this but didn't have the resources (i.e. a weapons' facility). So I settled for a GL-6 grenade launcher with ammo selection, built-in silencer, extra clip and ruthenium coating
Like this?
With this thing, you can even fire sensors above your enemies position today. In 2070, you could very well deploy rounds with smart multi-hit warheads or disposable drones.
They stole my idea. I demand compensation. 
Err... Wait. Is Skyhook going to be a space elevator, or a skyhook? I'm a bit lost, after a quick research.
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Dec 22 2010, 03:28 PM)
That is the problem I have with the book, Bogotá looks like the red-headed step child that neither Amazon nor Aztlan wanted, but now, they are fighting for it for no good reason except for the lulz.
I searched a bit, and it seems the ultimate reason I could find in War! for all that is going on in Bogotá is a said in a single sentence, page 24. QUOTE
This is plan was thought of by many Aztlan officials as the final solution to the instability in Bogotá, one that would have finally taken away Amazonia’s last area where they could effectively fight a proxy war against Aztlan.
An "effective proxy war" would mean Aztlan and Aztechnology already have what they want in Bogotá (access to consumers and natural resources in the area ?), and things they don't want to give up, or just for the loss of face. In turn, it makes Amazonian strategy of fighting a proxy or actual war against them effective, as long as it keeps Aztlan and Aztechnology military and intelligence resources occupied there. Compare this to the (alleged) Iranian strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan to avoid the US going on them.Otherwise, I rather agree with raben. I devoted too much time to keep the SR universe coherent in the past to stop now.
A question: Should I be writing the in character commentary with Jackpoint runner tags, or make up some and assume it's a different data haven, or what?
No Jackpoint runner tags.
Maybe Shadowland runner tags, but not Jackpoint
Maybe Shadowland runner tags, but not Jackpoint
Okay, I'll assume this is a separate data haven of some kind, and either make up names, or leave some blank in case someone else has brilliant runner name ideas.
You can make up your own Shadowlanders, but don't do one-shot osters, and write up a roster with their names and a short description, so others know what they are to sound like and can keep their voices coherent if they use them too.
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 23 2010, 01:46 AM)
You can make up your own Shadowlanders, but don't do one-shot osters, and write up a roster with their names and a short description, so others know what they are to sound like and can keep their voices coherent if they use them too.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'll probably write up the commentary using variables of who's talking, then do another round of filling in names, adding personal characteristics to the commentary if they weren't already used in conversation, and such things.
Great.
You can also make up a regional Data Haven, since the Morgue seems to be dead. Maybe something in Rangoon, hellhole of SE Asia? Also, if you want to paly with crossover stuff, there's Thais, son of Aina and that Horror lover of hers.
I'm not sure myself. It seems to oscillate depending on who is writing the coverage. Maybe someone ask our man in space, Tzeentch?
You can also make up a regional Data Haven, since the Morgue seems to be dead. Maybe something in Rangoon, hellhole of SE Asia? Also, if you want to paly with crossover stuff, there's Thais, son of Aina and that Horror lover of hers.
QUOTE
Err... Wait. Is Skyhook going to be a space elevator, or a skyhook? I'm a bit lost, after a quick research.
I'm not sure myself. It seems to oscillate depending on who is writing the coverage. Maybe someone ask our man in space, Tzeentch?
Hermit, keep Yrsgranthe away from the plot. He's a Named Horror, for Passion's sakes, he'll Horror-Mark the whole thing.
He also sacrificed himself to open a hellgate in Crater Lake because Aina's one dense elf. But Thais is working with the Naga ... just saying.
Hermit, Did you look at the really /vague/ outline I put forward?
Yes, issue 1 will be War! reloaded, but since megu wants to write up war in SE Asia, that can well go into the Asia Land war issue?
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 23 2010, 03:46 PM)
Yes, issue 1 will be War! reloaded, but since megu wants to write up war in SE Asia, that can well go into the Asia Land war issue?
well yes
but I ment the outline for Issue 1
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1022055
Yes, I read that. It looks good, I'll work some more stuff that has been discussed in and post a more detailed outline soon.
Edit: Here it is.
This is not in any way finalised. Especially sample units are up for discussion.
Edit: Here it is.
[ Spoiler ]
This is not in any way finalised. Especially sample units are up for discussion.
I've been kicking around the thought of doing the Am/Az conflict as an Argus document that got leaked onto the shadow boards. They got hired to give a comprehensive overview of the war (probably by UCAS or CAS) - that'll let us give an objective view on everything without having to rely on making 'runners to tell the stories.
Of course, we'll still have the shadowboard posters commenting - but my concern is the meat of the document itself.
Of course, we'll still have the shadowboard posters commenting - but my concern is the meat of the document itself.
That sounds like a good idea, for 2 through 4. 1 could be a classic Shadowland writeup, maybe with some references (we should bite our fingers and avoid snide remarks - okay, at least I should;) ), and 5's meat could be a document compiled by the CAS armed forces for CAS Marine officer trainees at West Point, all commented by shadowtalkers and beefed up with sidebars and everything by other shadow figures.
6 could be a collection of documents accumulated by the Dawkins Group, who want to study how these militaries work - or maybe another corp big in marketing or analysis.
7's meat could be an expose of the 2073 arms fair at Dubai by Jane's or maybe the good, old Ares catalogue. Oh, and pics, we need pics.
8 needs to be game info.
6 could be a collection of documents accumulated by the Dawkins Group, who want to study how these militaries work - or maybe another corp big in marketing or analysis.
7's meat could be an expose of the 2073 arms fair at Dubai by Jane's or maybe the good, old Ares catalogue. Oh, and pics, we need pics.
8 needs to be game info.
Point of ORder West Point is in NY state, in UCAS, and it's an ARMY College, marines need not apply.
A Marine Officer Training would perhaps be done in Annapolis (not sure if that's UCAS or CAS), but more likely Paris Island.
6 Could be an Ares Document, that someone did a paydata run on for S&K and posted a copy up?
West Point is in NY state, in UCAS, and it's an ARMY College, marines need not apply.A Marine Officer Training would perhaps be done in Annapolis (not sure if that's UCAS or CAS), but more likely Paris Island.
6 Could be an Ares Document, that someone did a paydata run on for S&K and posted a copy up?
I like that - Argus for the overview of the conflict, A CAS Marine Lt. Col writing a dissertation on differing strategies for the Joint Chiefs(or CAS equivalent), Dawkins Group intelligence on sample units around the world, and then, say, the Lagos Arms Bazaar?
Annapolis is Maryland, so it's still in UCAS territory.
Annapolis is Maryland, so it's still in UCAS territory.
I'm with Doc.. Argus, CAS Marine, Dawkins Group Intelligence (or Ares), Lagos Arms Bazaar
It also gives us a version of consistency for future releases - Argus is the most effective, largest private intelligence service in the world. They're going to be collecting information on all the hotspots where their main combat arm is going to possibly see action.
Hey, Doc, can you write up a little synopsis on who Argus is. I admit, I don't think I've read the supplements where they are mentioned.
Same with the Dawkins group? so we can build a voice for them.
Same with the Dawkins group? so we can build a voice for them.
QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 23 2010, 04:20 PM)
Hey, Doc, can you write up a little synopsis on who Argus is. I admit, I don't think I've read the supplements where they are mentioned.
Same with the Dawkins group? so we can build a voice for them.
Same with the Dawkins group? so we can build a voice for them.
Based off plague-soaked memory, so I'll revise as I go through my books later.
Argus is the intelligence arm of MET2000. Owned by it, yet operating separate, Argus provides intelligence services on contract for private and public enterprises across the globe. They have HUMINT resources rivalling that of well-known intelligence agencies such as UCAS' CIA.
I recall first hearing about MET2000 and Argus in Cannon Companion(SR3), if memory serves - that or Sprawl Survival Guide. It's a bit nebulous, but it's one of the two.
The Dawkins Group is a skosh more mysterious. On the books, they're a market research firm under Horizon. Off the books, they have a lot more power under their skirts than people realize - if Dawkins is in the area, Horizon has a vested interest in the outcome of whataver situation they're involved in.
These are the types of guys who specialize in regime change without a shot being fired. They work to shift public opinion in a manner that befits them and their clients. If you take over a war-torn African kingdom and want to stay in power, then the Dawkins Group can run a marketing campaign to show you as the second coming of Nelson Mandela.
On the flip side, they could turn Nelson Mandela into Hermann Goering.
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