Maybe I am misremembering things (away from books now, will check up), but didn't they have lots of indentured dwarf serfs digging up stuff in the Caucasian mountains?


No, it's just an easter egg Bull dropped, with no further implications.



I agree it makes not the most sense, but other than adding SK sugarcoating things, as in that they will help maintain Russian influence and such, and Krupp pulling strings on a massive scale (paving the way for Evo to get much more influence), I don't see any way to explain this, really. Also, I assume that, like in Iraq, there still are Russian 'advisors' left - militaries rarely just drop everything and run, especially if the top brass is deeply invested in the occupied country in question.

Haven't found that so far.


The insurgents won. I don't think they'd be glad to accept advisors from the country they have just been fighting.

Depends if they "won" by making Russia agree that moving out would be a good idea eventually, or by kicking them out hard. I can see the former much more than the latter, moreso because soch long-term occupation always implicates a significant part of the occupied populace - who profit off the occupation, as was well established in SoE's Poland writeup - and those would hardly want to see Russia just run for it and drop everything (them included) cold. I'd expect more of a transistion of power period, much like America's doing in Iraq. Russia certainly is powerful enough to not just be kicked out like some unwelcome guest all of a sudden.

Hmm, the only way I see for that to happen is Russian forces stopping the Liberation Army for good. Then, maybe after a year or two of uneasy truce, slowly pulling out, being all "you rybokrats can totally handle it now". Minding that those same rybokrats with Russian help had driven Poland into such poverty that food, water and electricity were rationed by that point, I guess some humanitarian help from SK would have been needed for that transition period.
Then, once the Red Army is out, National Republic Poland just quietly surrenders to Free Poland - maybe holds elections, or old Rybinski just escapes, and the whole thing topples.

Yeah. That makes a bit more sense than Russia being kicked out by guerillas they had pinned down in 2063 already.

By the by, SoA, SoE and T:SH have three different versions of Border Wars. Is there anywhere a single established version, considered canon? Or a more elaborate write-up than a half-dozen sentences?

...apologies for being AWOL for a few days. RL has a habit of demanding your complete attention sometimes.

Hermit, thanks for the vote of confidence. I have been giving this more thought. Finally caught up on the thread and some really nice ideas here concerning Russia.

Again that the Balkans were pretty much ignored helps as the only SR fiction I read were the first few books released back on the 90s. However, should I jump into this, what I do still has to mesh with what is happening in and being written about the rest of Europe/Eurasia.

I always loved the shadowtalk. While I don't feel comfortable using one of the established personalities, the local/regional colour angle is a different story. The one big limitation in the setting I have is that it is very dystopic with communications in Serbia, Montenegro, and Croatia under very tight control and scrutiny of the Belgrade government. Granted, it would make running the airwaves very dangerous and thus create a community of the best local "crackers" who are adept in evading Directorate matrix operatives. Kind of like the "old days".

In spite of a seemingly well equipped and heavy handed Serbian occupation force, there is a strong and tightly knit resistance network within Croatia. One thing I notice is that a military geared more for large scale assaults/confrontations often has a great deal of difficulty dealing with a invisible enemy who wages a guerrilla style war. The British in Northern Ireland, US in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, US in Iraq/Afghanistan are just a few examples where a "superior" military had their hands full with a seemingly "rag tag" yet highly motivated and resourceful resistance force.

In a sense, the Balkans are Europe's "Barrens".

Sadly no, but I'd go with SoE, since it's the most recent iteration.


There was a Sarajevo writeup in the short profiles section of Feral Cities, but other than that, yes, it went fully ignored. Synner supposedly had written up a ton of stuff (including on all these microstates in SoE), but it was cut entirely.


Yes, because in the end, most of these forces are easy targets by invisible assassins who don't mind collateral damage. Of course, this diwsregard for the people they want to fight for has broken many resistances' necks (most notably in Iraq, but in Norther Ireland the IRA faced a similar problem).


Oh, it is. It has been since several hundred years.

One thing of not eis that there SHOULD be a strong Austrian influence in the Balkans. It's their historical backyard and there are ties that run very deep (there's a saying that the Balkans begins in Vienna's 17th precinct). Austria used to own them for well over 600 years prior to 1918. And then there are ties from the Euro-Wars. Austria probably also supports Serbia with tech and advisors, since they represent a force of order in that disorderly region, which would keep ther backs free, provide a buffer zone against the Muslims, and investing ground for several Austrian and German corps and megas.

Hmm, I'm down to writing the actual structure of Red Army units. How detailed should it be, what do you think? Should it just be like "an armored division has three armor regiments and a battery of heavy SAMs for fire support", or should I actually elaborate, and go for organizational diagrams or full write-ups?

I think you could go with the former, few people will bother on looking a diagram to find an especific company or brigade that is interesting for the story.

Gloss it over, but do a specific diagram for a smaller unit, maybe with some names and such (and mooks). Not only for Yakut Shuffle, we can also maybe for Issue 1's faces and units section.

I guess a diagram of a motorized infantry regiment might do it...
So far, I've just added the history sidebar to my draft, looks rather non-controversial to me, at least as far as I can see.
Here's a full source info compilation.

UPD: added some info on Russian forces in Siberia, wrote up top brass (I tried to drop a hint or two at possible adventure hooks, think it worked?).
Also, the numbers for armed forces I'm getting with established canon are borderline ridiculous, with more than a hundred divisions active in the Red Army at the very least.

Hi again, next ones are at beta stage:

GoogleDocs: Ares Assault Group

This one is as far as I can get it, for now. I need input on the numbers (too many, too few?) and on the general setup of the unit. So far, it covers pretty much anything you can play or get in contact with in a normal gaming group.

GoogleDocs: some misc military equipment

The combat rations still need game information, also I included Tzzentchs GripPod. I'd suggest we put all other items floating around in this document.

Last, I need some vehicles done:

4 types of t-birds (tank, maybe with a light railgun?; troop-carrier, 10 troopers, armed sufficiently to tear up some houses; medevac, with 4 strechers; rocket artillery, with a VLS type of thing for a load of missiles and 2 UAV pods).

A wheeled APC, heavily armed, for 12 troopers. A medevac type with 4 strechers. A wheeled APC with two mortars.

For a Wheeled APC, Heavily Armed, for 12 troopers, we can do a modified CityMaster.

Call it the Ares Urban Assault Vehicle

s for the medevac, honestly something like the Black Mariah, which is a heavily armored prisoner transport for base,but with different standard options would fit the bill.

Extra entry/exit. 2 Valkyrie mods, and several rigger cocoons with Valkyrie mods in them.

Eh, I don't want to sound discouraging, but Brother Occam is surely watching us with a puzzled look. Shadowrun already has two mechanics for weapon alteration - accessories and mods, why are we trying to reinvent the bicycle?

I don't think we need to do a seperate modularsystem

Instead, you can have a modular weapon that has increased modification slots.

+1 for pistols
+2 for automatics
+3 for 'rifles'

Yeah, or we could just make a mod that increases the number of other mods a weapon can take and swap quickly.

I would rather it be a type of weapon, or a design option.

Like High Velocity

This is exactly what it does. It's only a little more precise regarding the size of available options.

What it does from what I'm reading is replacing the existing ways of modification with an alternative one. I consider this redundant.

I think it's much better if we treat it like HV.

Modular Weapons are modified designs that use Modular Parts.

cost +1000%
add +1 slot for pistols
+2 slots for automatics
+3 slots for assault rifles and long arms

+1000% ?!
+100%, I can understand. But ten times the cost for just a couple of slots?!

it's both extra slots, and interchangeable slots.

That's pretty huge.

It's a weapon that can have a gasvent 3 AND a silencer, and a heavy barrel, depending on your needs.

1000 might be too much, but +100 is too low.

And Powered Slide Mounts? So, 3 other existing methods.

...as I understand it, from a conversation I had with him several years ago, the write-up of the region was lost in a hard drive meltdown.


...I have most of the assistance/influence in Serbia coming from the New Soviet side. Yamatetsu is the major mega involved there.

While it might be an interesting plot device for Lofwyr and S-K to attempt bringing about some form of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire again, there are other power players now in the mix, most notably the New Soviet and Serbia, who's Secretariat General has her own political agenda and a mega to back her up. I could see S-K and Austria possibly courting both Slovenia and Hungary as buffer states between them and the Serbo-Croatian conflict.

If anything, Austria and the German States would be more likely to side with their former ally from the last great war of the past century, Kroatien.

Basically war can either be a good business or bad for it.

I look at Lofwyr being patient for now and letting the situation play itself out. After all Secretariat-General Kovec is only a metahuman. If she gets too big for her jackboots, it wouldn't take much "convincing" to put her in her place. Furthermore, I would think there are still more immediate internal issues, such as the restoration of the once highly profitable tourism industry in the Tyrol. Prior to the Manastorm of 2062 it was Austria's cash cow. Afterward, negative media spin caused the region to become a literal ghostland.

You must surely mean Russia and EVO.

As gas vents and silencers/suppressors are barrel-mounted, I have just no idea how you came up with this.

It's simply an in-game version of a sopmod kit. It's not redundant, because it makes weapon accessoires modular, which they are not at the moment.

...apologies, still thinking in 3rd ed. which is what this was originally written for.

I'm not sure i buy a Soviet Union in a world where Megacorps rule.
The Oligarchy we have now in Russia makes much more sense.

True. Well, there are some coprs from German canon you could use there - and MCT is heavily invested in Austria, as is Spinrad and Shiawase (and, via Disney, Horizon). They could influence the situation via Austria and Hungaria


According to German metaplot, Lofwyr is focusing on consolidating in Germany (and, according to War!, in Poland), trying to get the country to transform into a corp-run state like PCC. The major players there - on the political scnee - are Ares, SK, Frankfurter Bankenverein and fledgeling Ruhrmetall who will likely face the fate of now-shattered IFMU.


Sure, but Austria's industry is mainly oriented towards ressource exploitation, tourism and export of manufactured goods, and they have great historical interest in the Balcans. And the more pressing and insurmountable internal matters become, the more likely it is to rally the people behind a national cause (like Argentina did with the Falklands war, for instance).

...thanks for the additional info. So, in a sense, they really are interested in reviving the old Austro-Hungarian empire, 6th world corporate style. That changes things then. I was hoping most of the focus would have been on the NEEC proper and the Balkans still remained an after thought.

It still seems that politically, the setting I envisioned still works better prior to the crash. Lofwyr was still in the TT (until 2062). the NEEC was still a proposal, and the New Supreme Soviet (Red Storm Rising in SoA) was the party in power and Russian troops in Divided Poland were seen as a serious threat.

As to the"New Soviet, true, they were not communist, but did have a lot of the trappings of the old pre-awakning Soviet structure.

Gotta go (have a campaign session to run today) will be back later.

I just re read fields of fire last night. And I am seriously saddened by how much better than War! it is in every way.

Matadors "Code" stuff was awesome.

Haven't seen Russia called anything but "Russia" since second edition.


NSS is National Supreme Soviet, Russian supreme body of power roughly equivalent to a parliament ("soviet" is used as a noun here, meaning "council", not as an adjective).
National Soviet Reconstructionists are the party at power, but they are neither communists nor The Party (like, say, RL EdRo is trying to be). Rather, they are authoritarian nationalists and militarists. However, unlike KPSS and Soviet Union, neither are state and party ruling bodies intertwined, nor do you need to be a member of The Party to achieve anything in life (well, at least there isn't a word about that in the books).
As a matter of fact, nationalists have ruled SR Russia since at least 2005, when they initiated the Border Wars. The only time when non-nationalists got to try themselves was around 2035-2037 (dates differ between source books), when Democratic Recovery Alliance came to power in the wake of the Euro Wars. However, their reforms were so unsuccessful that NRA replaced them, and haven't lost the reins of government ever since. And yeah, they seem to have nothing against interventionism.

The way I understand, it's more of a bureaucratic authoritarian state. The real shakers are the heads of the various governmental institutions, like Red Army and UGB, not nouveau riche oligarchs we have now.


Well, FoF mostly centers around what it's like to be a mercenary. While War! is more about what's it's like to write a book without an editor.

They tried politically during the Eurowars, but that failed. The Austrian Heritage Party who is dedicated to reunite the k&k monarchy still runs the country as of SoE, though. They'Re also listed in Loose Alliances under Fascists, IIRC.


The crash might have changed that. What I described is pre-Crash, 2055 to 2062.



Well, take today's China. Maoist trappings and decor, run by a communist party in one-party rule, and the last place on earth where you can find genuine Manchester style early capitalism that exploits workers in the way Marx described. It's perfectly possible.


Target: Wastelands linked that with the Yakut uprising and the loss of most of Siberia's wealth in ressources, which made them try and grab Poland, Belarus and Ukraina (though those aren't exactly ressource rich; they should have gone for Scandinavia instead, or undersea mining in the arctic ocean).


This.

That was the second time, in 2030. First time was 2005, and nowhere does it say when they left, but T:SH states that 2030 saw "uprisings" in Belarus, Ukraine and in the Baltic States. So I presumed that Russia occupied them from 2005 to 2030, and lost them in the wake of the first Euro War.

Could happen, yes. Since SoE is excessively vague there, we should just go with that, I guess ...

Actually, I'd be grateful if you browsed through my current draft.
First, to determine if my timeline makes sense.
Second, to say if anyone has any other plans for Novichok.
Third, to tell if I'm being tщo wordy with my unit structure descriptions, and what can be done about that.

...that is kind of what I was afraid of (wish we could do fully nested quotes like on other forums).

I was looking at the Balkans as a place of intrigue. A region at war where ethnic hatred crosses metahuman lines and goes back centuries. A land which was heavily scarred both physically and culturally from having been the battlefield between the European forces and the Holy Jihad. A fertile ground for terrorists, self proclaimed warlords, and tin pot dictators. Resources-wise, it is not all that vital to the whole of Europe. Strategically, it may be a good buffer against any future adventurism by Muslim interests.

...and if a future conflict occurs, better it is fought out there than on home soil.

I feel it would be difficult to justify the Balkan setting as I have written it if Austria and the German States already have designs on the region. Even with Evo's backing, Kovec's regime would not last several months against an S-K/Ares backed Austro-Germanic juggernaut. This is again why I feel it worked better in the pre-crash era as the for major European and corporate powers, there were other and more important distractions to deal with. In the post Euro War era, the Balkans were pretty much written off after having suffered so much collateral and political damage during the war. As long as no one in the region (read Muslim) posed a serious threat to the rest of the continent, the Balkans were pretty much left to their own devices. Deep seeded ethnic and religious infighting would keep the various factions busy amongst themselves

The way it,developed in my scenario, the Balkan situation eventually became a more sinister version of the Desert Wars where the "contestants" played for keeps. War games may be good for showcasing the newest "toys", but nothing replaces the "real thing" when it comes to proving just how well they work (or don't).

...hmm... we just became a splinter cell.

Sweet!

Woot
We just need the other threads moved.

I would say that it does not have to be the Center of the conflict though, just the area that War! happened to concentrate upon. The question that you could answer, and have apparently been brainstorming some very awesome ideas about, is exactly WHY it was concentrated upon... Wars have an ebb and flow to them, and what is focused upon (in the media, or whatever) may not be the real areas or reasons that the war is being prosecuted for. Expand upon what its lacking and it will be much more useful in the long run, and will not contradict (at least too much) what is current, and likely what is to come.

I don't really care personally about contradicting the crap that CGL is putting out.

That being said, We have been brain storming on what the War looks like, and what it's really being fought over.

The problem with Bogota is that, you can't GET a decent army from either side anywhere where they can have a war in the first place.

Mountain Fighting is hell.. just ask the US, Russians, Vietnamese
Mountain Cloud Forest Fighting? that's a logistical nightmare for a conventional army.

Mountain Fighting DOES suck, as does Jungle and Desert Fighting... been there, done that, hated it, never want to go back...
Anyways... I like what I have been seeing, but it is definitely a lot of stuff to digest in a short reading... will have to go back when I have a significant amount of time to digest all of the drafts...

Check out the Amazonia and For Fun and Profit threads too

Updated my draft - added army structure discussion bits, VDV description, and descriptions for Army and several minor Spetsnaz teams.

Sorry for my lower frequency of posting/checking up, it's exams time.

...for me it is End of Month billing cycle at the day job, trying to get a 64 bit graphics workstation put together and GMing a revised version of my RiS campaign [SR3].

For me, it's a two week vacation both at work and in the university.
I feast on your suffering.