Do you want to know more? <--- *clicks*

...see PM.

Wrote up RVSN.
God, I'm starting to wonder if I've bitten off more than I can possibly chew - I wrote up a single branch of a single ministry (of the three responsible for Russian Armed Forces) for one of the warring states. And a write-up of the armed forces is just one of five chapters planned - god, this is taking me a couple months, at the very least...

...welcome to my world.

In 2005 I had a full writeup of the Balkans pretty much ready for submission and my RiS campaign arc in playtesting. I had spent more than a year in research on the history of the region and writing both the background and the module while making sure everything fit within the canon of SoE and SOTA 2063/64. Then Fanpro announced they were releasing a new edition of the rules and no longer were accepting additional material for 3rd ed.

...yeah a total burn.

I got this PM from Demonseed Elite about Bogotá on the unpublished SoLA.

Yeah. I'm not sure how relevant it is to what you guys are working on, but pre-War!, Bogota has been a part of Amazonia for decades. Page 106 of Aztlan says that officially, Bogota is within Amazonia's borders, but that Aztlan disagrees with the official borders and it can be summed up best as a "disputed territory." In the game timeline, that was 2056. In the more recent game events, Aztlan used the Interpol-backed offensive against Tempo as an excuse to bring military assets into Bogota, including the "accidental" bombing of Bogota's capital building. Feral Cities expands on how Bogota's government is in turmoil after the Aztlan strikes, and it's clear that Aztlan moved to exert more control over Bogota in the wake of the events of Ghost Cartels, apparently leading to the situation where the city is essentially under Aztlan control in War!.

The problems with War! are that it confuses this timeline by starting the book off with assumptions that Aztlan controls Bogota and then waiting a whole chapter before explaining how that happened. Then the explanation is pretty bad, making it sound like Aztlan has been slowly taking control of Bogota for decades, even though there's never been an indication of that before. Further, there's the whole issue with half the book being devoted to Bogota and so Bogota has to be made to seem more central to the Aztlan/Amazonia war than it would realistically be.

Well, this sums up pretty much how War! doesn't make sense...
I mean, if Amazonia really cared about the city, they wouldn't let Aztlan slowly buy the city. And even if Bogotá, was considered an autonomous region by Amazonia, they would definitely put a garrison there.

To me, this only makes sense if Hualpa or Sirrurg had planned this and wanted this war. But from the book, it appears the Amazonian Army was caught with their pants down and only Sirrurg is really taking the battle to Aztlan.

This is why, the more we work on this, the more I want to have FastJack put a giant "April Fools" joke on the War! stuff, and just punt the damn thing. Like in Star Trek 6 when Spock says to Kirk, "I had the strangest dream, that I had a Brother." "A brother? You spock?" "I know, Rediculous."

The Bogota history section in War! is a mess, to be entirely honest. The paragraph I posted above would have been a reasonable series of events to explain how Aztlan ended up in control of Bogota:



Now, Amazonia would still be fighting back, I imagine, but that kind of military move by Aztlan would make sense. Instead, War! time travels back to the early 2050s and establishes that Aztlan was slowly taking control of Bogota back then (which has never been mentioned before in canon) and then in the early 2060s, it planted the evil, carnivorous trees as a way to prevent an Amazonian invasion of Bogota that never happened in the early 2060s. And never really needed to happen, since canon had already said that Amazonia controlled Bogota up to that point. It's like Terminator movie logic. All done in the name of giving a purpose for the carnivorous trees which CGL determined was central to War! plotline and to give a reason to put an undeserved amount of attention on Bogota because it's the city that appears in half of the book.

Amazonia would be fighting back, but it would be a touchy, intrigue infested thing.

The Corp Court basically told them, "stop expanding in South America, or you're going to feel the full might of the Corporate Court."
This is what stopped them from expanding into Argentina, and taking MORE of Columbia and Venezuella than they did.
Bogota was Amazonian controlled, but the Bogotans consider themselves a Free Independent city.

Where's the Amazonian Garrison? Bogota is on the wrong side of /everywhere/. It needs a self-sufficient Garrison, and control of the Airport. The only way to get troops there is to fly them in from Metropole to Bogota.

Or Manaus and Belém, both are MUCH closer to Bogotá, and both, as far as I can recall, canon says they still exist as cities (instead of being swallowed by the jungle).

They are much closer, but going from Manaus to Bogota is still basically an airlift.
It's a faster airlift, I will grant. But it's still basically an airlift.
You're not driving from Manaus to Bogota.
I wonder what's in Manaus, in 2073.

Given that Manaus right now is a manufacturing center. A Free Economic Zone, Chemical, cell phones, etc.

the GDP for the City is $15 Billion, US. That's a nice chunck of change.
Still, it's in the heart of Amazonas. In the middle of the growing back super fast. What does that do.. how would Manaus change given Hualpa and Sirrurg's feelings.

I could see Manaus changing its economic to "greener" industries, perhaps there are licensed lumbermills that can cut a given amount of wood per month, that is good enough for them and good enough for the jungle too.
Perhaps some heavily inspected pharmaceutical companies operate there also.
Also, Manaus is now the capital of the nation, that means there are a lot of direct and indirect business related to politicians and masses of people (shadowrunners are one example of growing industry in Manaus ).

And Belém is the port for whatever is produced in Manaus and if we assume the Carajás Mine still exists, it also exports a lot of mineral resources.

I really wanted to see the SoLA draft for Amazonia. Two pages for country in 6WA doesn't even scratch the tip of the iceberg of information it could be available.

Finished up with Red Navy - the results look exceptionally boring to me, but I don't know how to make it better.
Oh well.
Coming up next are Naval Infantry, GRU and their associated Spetsnaz teams. Should be easy enough.

Switched to game information instead, statted up some vehicles, missiles and firearms.
*Edit*: also statted several devices you can put on fixed weapon mounts instead of weapons, hope they're not too broken.

We'll take a look. Fatum I'm going to start a thread for Russia. Can you put the links to your documents in them so folks can come in and take a look and make suggestions/etc.

Thanks

I said I was going to take a look at what Fatum wrote and finish my stuff, but RL™ kinda didn't let me...
I think we are losing momentum and people.
hermit disappeared, Grinder and Doc Chase don't post anymore as well; it seems there is only me, sabs and Fatum still doing something.
So, is there anyone who would like to help?

Here goes the link for all the documents I have collected so far.

I've been sick for the last 6 days or so. Probably be another week before my brain doesn't feel like cotton gin.

I tried to reach Hermit some days ago, no success.

Holidays are long over, so I have a lot less time available. All things I promised to write are in first draft, I welcome anyone to add constructive criticism resulting in a second draft.

I beg your pardon if that doesn't sound as the brightest question ever, but: where are your drafts, Arclight?

I'm back. Very sorry for dropping out like I did. Shit hit fans and everything.

Off to the doc now, will catch up on Alt.War and post, hopefully answering questions leveled at me, in the evening.

They are in the GoogleDocs folder Brazilian_Shinobi posted above. Mine are "Ares Assault Group", "misc mil equipment", "Combat First Aid" and (missing in the list, but was posted in this very thread) "Personal Equipment".

It'd be a nice idea to actually let someone beside you edit them, if you want feedback. :\

Just post your comments here

K, if you're so distrustful.
I've said it here already and I will repeat myself - Shadowrun ill needs one more weapon modification system.

How much?

Can the foregrip be used when the bipod is in use?

Is it a laser sight? There are laser sights in the system already.

I don't remember Vision Magnification upgrade having ratings.

Again, how much space?

Though? Besides, is "glass breaker system" just a fancy name for a sharp rod below the barrel?

I heard that different rifles have different calibres...

First, if I recall, Eastern Bloc rations come meal-sized. Which, if you think about it, makes a lot of sense.
Second, I figure it'd be a good idea to mention the chem heating (again, not all Eastern Bloc rations have that; ones that don't have a fire source and some compact fuel; using those would allow runners to light some fire should a need arise).

Also, there's a whole bunch of cool equipment (like, say, entrenching charges) that's not on your draft.

Info added.



It's not another system. It's a modular system (which the canon version is not) for a selected list of items.



Yes, that's exactly what it is.



In Shadowrun, all weapons of a class (like "Assault rifles") share the same ammo. There is no such thing as "calibre" in Shadowrun.



Well, those aren't and they don't have.



Then: write them up?



I'm not distrustful, I organize my workload according to my working style and needs. I don't have to check 4 documents but only this one thread. Faster and therefore more time-efficient for me.

It's precisely that: a system that replaces existing ones. I fail to see why quick-swap upgrades can't be statted as accessories or weapon modifications. I believe we've been over it above.

Hmm. How is it better than a bayonet?

AFB, can't comment on this; though, as a matter of fact, there are upgrades that increase the caliber (see War!)

*shrug* You write about it in such general terms: "rations can be this or that" that it makes the reader presume that nothing besides those two types exist. Add "rations that we offer", maybe?

I thought you were writing on misc mil equip, not me.
I can, of course, include a bunch of assorted military gear into my draft, but is it really the place for it?

Google.docs comments make it obvious which part of the text raises the question; so you don't have to read the comments in one tab and then look for the text commented in the other.
Whatever you prefer, of course.

It's from War ... SR had this weird one-size-fits-all ammo system, and had it since SR1 (nevermind that there always were caliber-change mods; SR's weapons just work like Army of Two's somehow). Entire fanmade supplements (Streetfighter's digest) have been written solely because people found that stupid, but there you go.

It's smaller, lighter, doesn't add unneeded length to your weapon and won't injure someone you accidentaly hit while punching through the glass.



I know nothing about War! besides that a lot of people don't like it.



No, it's just a compilation of things I thought of. The GripPod was done by Tzzentch. At the point I started the file, we had no place to store little stuff that might find it's way into the book.

Do you want to know more?

Because knowing is half the War!
sorry, i could not resist <.<;,

The other half reportedly being typos and crap

So, you can't use it in melee? Maybe you should point that out?

I'm afraid that its still canon, and we have to work with whatever rules and stats found there

It IS in the text. You even quoted that part in your first post.



I figure that is something the editor will judge on. After all, this whole project was started to create an alternative for the canon book. I personally don't care, but it would be a valid decision to just ignore all the crap in War! and introducing calibres into the rules system certainly fits right in there.

Right, my bad.

Well, I don't really think it's wise to just wave away a bunch of stuff, even if it's not really well-thought. People will still use it, so wollens nollens we have to accommodate for that fact.

As I said, that's the editors choice.

I'd appreciate feedback on my other documents, too. Especially on the Ares one.

Far as I understand, US army has mechanized units called "cavalry" because of the regiment history - started as cavalry, and then, as it got new weapons, turned into what is today, right? How can Ares have units that used to be cavalry?

The part after that - well, I am personally ok with the info being presented is a whole stream of shadowtalk only, but it's hardly the custom for SR books, and it kinda makes the text harder to follow. Maybe, back to "one primary document by the leading expert on the board, comments by everyone else"?

Uh, aren't logistic and maintenance support?

The shadowtalkers forgot about magic altogether. Well, almost.

Uh I imagined tank crews somewhat differently.

Are you guys still interested in things for Bogotá?
I can give you information, just ask and i'll answer as soon as possible.

I leave you with this actual video: Guerrilas taking over the Supreme Court of Justice in Colombia in 1986, tehse are the images I could find. Yes this is inside actual Bogotá, two blocks away form the President's house, over the block shown in min. 1.47 from the Congress, and those are army tanks. They used those in a big FAIL attempt to take it over. The voice is form a Supreme Justice asking the President, over the media, to order a cease fire.

It all ended in flames.

(Back then the police didn't know how pilot a chopper. Yes the guy dropped was a "Tactical Team"... again EPIC FAIL!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUdYAAE_Qfw

That is how Bogotá should look like in the 6th world.

Well, Inncubi, every help counts. Welcome aboard, feel free to critic or even contribute text.

Simple: the guys creating a corporate force from scratch have to come somewhere. And they didn't reinvent the wheel.



I like the present format better, because it transports one of the core messages better (e.g. "nobody really knows").



You should read that part again. AAG has no permanently employed mechanics and indeed has a completely AI-based logistics system.



I don't think that the vehicle crews need to be detailed but only the part that can come into contact with player characters.

Ok, Bogotá , actually the name comes from "Cacique Bacatá", a "Cacique is a "Leader" to native americans, today, is an administrative center for the army, but almost no operations start from here. Since most of the current war is going on in rural areas, the army's real presence is there. However, Bogotá has now three airports: one is "CATAM -Comando de Transporte Aéreo" (Air Transport Command) base, in the El Dorado Airport, which is the second, civilian international airport. On the outskirts, in Guaymaral there is a third, small -fit only for small planes, certainly not commercial jet liners- and private airport.

From Manaus to Bogotá, today, you can't drive... Ok, not sure if you /can/ as in /possible/, but certainly not an efficient way to do it by any chance. In a growing magical jungle that devours civilization. I see it happening less and less.

The "Cantón Norte" is a huge weapon deposit for the army. The same guerrillas that attacked the Supreme Court of Justice once dug a tunnel under the deposits and stole a lot of weapons. The M-19, as they were called, pulled it off.

Now, to another subject.

Close to Bogotá, about one and a half hour drive away, lies The "Laguna de Guatavita". A very important spiritual place for the Muiscas -Native americans that occupied the area around Bogotá- its a lagoon in the old funnel of a volcano, where the natives would pick a chief and perform a festival where they would bathe him in gold dust and carry him to the center of the lagoon, there they would throw gold, emeralds, salt and other precious objects into the water, and the "Cacique" would dive in.

People have tried to dry it in order to get the gold in the depths, to no avail. They have sent divers, to no avail.
Talk about potential story line here for SR, also some anthropologists say this was what actually spurned further the El Dorado myth.
Actually this summary is good: http://www.bookrags.com/research/muisca-religion-eorl-09/

And I just found this amazing website, has lots of information, relatively accurate, about the current conflict, and its in English already:
http://insightcrime.org/country-profiles/c...country-profile

So...
Is the project closed?

try here:
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51934&start=300
last posting was on march 19

Thanks, registered there and sent the links of my documents.

...well read through the thread over on TGD and the Balkans still seem to be an afterthought.

If I were more involved with 4th ed, I would seriously consider submitting something. Just not cost effective though to spend 100's on new game books (or more preferably PDFs) just to get "up to speed" so I can write a section for an alternate sourcebook from which there would be no compensation.

I was going to read through the gaming den posting, but then I got to the point where Frank was talking about electrical weapons, and an explanation of an alternate damage system that is being used and expected to be used to work with the gear being made, and I find that ridiculous. This is supposed to be a rewrite of a supplement to make that supplement more balanced, not a rewrite of the core rules of the game.

Agreed. And I posted my drafts there and got no feedback on them, other than "it needs more/less words".
And nobody is posting here anymore...
Now, about Frank:
If he wanted to create a Shadowrun 5 core rules, fine, but to create a thread about what War! should have been and then start adding new rules or rewriting rules is just silly.

Well is anyone really interested in trying to wrest the project back from TGD to bring it back to being WAR! rather than SR4.75?

I volunteered to write stuff about South America. Maracaibo and Amazonian Forces are ok, I think. It's the chapter about how an Awakened Army is formed that I'm not satisfied. I'll try write a new chapter about another possible front for the Azt/Am war.

Frankly, with the type of fluff changes they purpose, and their idea of not supporting CGL material (which'd basically limit the consumers of our work to hardcore bitter fans), I just think I'll make whatever I can of what I am doing, and not take their changes into account.