I was highly disappointed when I didn't see it in the gear section for my super cyber soldier project.

On page 425, the Beretta 201T is listed as having SA/BF fire modes. However it also says:

Burst-firing the Beretta 201T requires a Complex Action.

On page 179 it says:
Semi-Automatic weapons can fire a burst of three rounds with a Complex Action.

The Semi-auto burst is otherwise identical to a short burst used in mode BF. If the Short burst from the 201T is three rounds that take a complex action, how is that different than a Semi-Auto Burst? So what do we get for the BF mode of the 201T?

BF mode on a gun also opens up the ability to make a Long Burst.

-DrZ

There is also a difference in complexity:

SA-Burst -> complex action
Burst -> simple action

Right, but it states that firing that particular gun in BF mode requires a complex action, making it effectively a choice of SA, SB, and LB.

-DrZ

That is correct, I sort of missed the details of the question

This may already have been listed, and apologies if so.

Aspected Magicians don't have any spells listed given at creation. This is understandable since there's three options for aspected magicians, but it makes it a bit difficult to play Sorcery Aspected Magicians when you have to buy all your spells and rituals with karma.

That's not an error - that's a choice made because while they can give Sorcerers spells and Alchemists preparations, there's no equivalent to give Conjurers. Spirit Services wouldn't do, because they're temporary as opposed to permanent.

1) Is Edit File only an opposed roll if you don't own the file, or if you have illicit access to the file like the Control Device Action? I imagine wage slaves working on a host to spell check the latest earning reports don't have to beat the Host's firewall. If the Edit File action, if it only applies to editing in a hacker concept of illegal access to files, shouldn't it use Attack or Sleaze, again in much the way Control Device does?

2) How do you access a protected file legitimately? The protect file option doesn't give a way around the protection like Data Bomb does. By RAW, only the illegal Crack File action is able tor remove protection. I can't imagine that's the intended way to deal with a protected file legally. As a Decker PC, I can easily imagine times I want to protect a file, and I find it odd I can't share a code with a friend/contact to give them access to a file.


3) Wouldn't it make more sense for Set Data Bomb, an action that generates a damaging effect, to use the Attack attribute? Also, is it intended that disarming a data bomb is a legal action anyone with a Commlink can attempt, due to it being a Firewall linked action?

4) On a similar note: Wouldn't Protect File work better with Firewall, the protection attribute which is enhanced with Encryption, than with Data Processing?

There is no specific mention on the effect of full status monitor, only on overflow. My assumption would be that you fall unconcious when your status monitor is full, but is not so clarified clearly in the rules, only hinted at.

There are several references in the gear section to the integral folding stock... the Colt Cobra and Uzi IV both have it, but it doesn't appear on the firearms accessories list.


P 444 Vision Magnification gear refers to the rules on p. 177, should be 178.

Pg. 322: Dragonslayer Mentor
"Advantages
All: +2 dice pool modifier for one social skill of choice
Magician: +2 dice for Combat spells, preparations,
and rituals.
Adept: 1 free level of Enhanced Accuracy (skill) and 1
free level of Danger Sense"

Enhanced accuracy does not come in levels.

Pg. 324: Thunderbird Mentor
"Advantages
All: +2 dice for Intimidation Tests
Magician: +2 dice for summoning spirits of air
Adept: 1 free level of Critical Strike (skill)"

Critical Strike does not come in levels.

P254 The example:
Netta wants to compile a courier sprite to watch her back as she goes about her business. She doesn’t need the most powerful being, so she goes with a level 3 sprite. Netta’s Compiling skill is 5 and her Resonance is 6, for a total of 11 dice. She gets 4 hits on her roll, while the sprite rolls 3 dice and gets 2 hits. Netta has 2 net hits, which means the sprite owes her two tasks, but first she has to deal with Fading.

This should read:
Netta wants to compile a courier sprite to watch her back as she goes about her business. She doesn’t need the most powerful being, so she goes with a level 3 sprite. Netta’s Compiling skill is 5 and her Resonance is 6, for a total of 11 dice. She gets 4 hits on her roll, but is limited to [level] hits, so can only use 3 of her four hits without spending edge to exceed limits. The sprite rolls 3 dice and gets 2 hits. Netta decides it is not worth the cost to exceed limits at this time, resulting in 1 net hit, which means the sprite owes her one task, but first she has to deal with Fading DV 4.

Two things :

First- Beast Spirits, pg 303, Optional Powers section stated "Natural Weapon (Drain Value = Force Physical, AP -). Drain??? I think that might be a cool-ass power, the hit causes drain (which can't be healed/regened in RAW games), but somehow I think this is meant to be "Damage Value"

Second -

:::MAJOR GRIPE:::

After Reading the Spell Defense (pg 294, SR5) several times, I figured something out that I do not like at all. Can anyone explain how a magician is permitted to determine with the Free Action (not the Interupt -5 Initiative Option) what spell(s) to defend against, especially when they do NOT have any idea of spells that they are defending against? I mean, unless there is a new form of "Spidey-sense Divining", this is simply not going to work. Perhaps the example being clarified would help, but the mechanic as written is flawed for the basic application.

It was Damage Value, but it is bad copy-pasta from SR4. I gave them melee weapon that deals Force + Strength damage. That is pretty good, but with the huge boost in ranged damage I see no real problem with it.

pg 88. - No hard limit given for the maximum rating of Skill Groups at character generation, only the implicit limit of "maximum skill rating of 6".

Page 343 - Employer Table: Table Heading is wrong. It states "Location Type". Correct would be "Employer Type".
Page 381 - Professional Rating 0 Thug Table - Limits are missing.
Page 381 - Professional Rating 0 Lieutenant Table - Condition Monitor is missing.
Page 384 - Professional Rating 6 Lieutenant Table - First line should state "Initiative" not "G"
Page 434 - Grenade Table is already included in Page 435 => Redundant information

Page 235 - Pretty sure that it should be comcode, not commode (unless it's wirelessly enabled and then you can get all sorts of data...)

Best spelling mistake ever.

Spelling nitpick: shouldn't it be commcode, since it comes from either communication or commlink?

Sorta Gripe: Okay, recurring problem.

The spell drain values for the various spells are inversely written. I admit that after all these years I am fairly comfortable with various versions all have similarities (Elemental Effect adds Drain, Area adds drain, Physical v. Mana adds drain, etc. ad nauseum). I have been doing comparisons of drain values in the 5th Ed book and I'm not quite sure how to react to them to be honest.

Manaball, Powerball and Stunball all have the same drain values. By comparison Ball Lightning & Fireball have less drain than the previously mentioned three. Oh, but Blast has the same drain as the first three I list.

Area spells have a +3 Drain Modifier compared to their single target counterparts EXCEPT for Ball Lightning and Fireball, which are only +2.

Extended Area in Detection is +2. Makes sense and seems consistent.

Mind Probe .. part of the description notes that the person is aware of the probing but not the source. Hrm... major verbage fallback ALL THE WAY TO FIRST EDITION. It's a touch-range spell. Combined with the chance for a mundane to "feel" spellcasting, this verbage needs tossed IMO.

Voluntary v. Involuntary spells in the Health Group is a +1 Drain Modifier. At least there is one.

Mana-Illusions ... I have often wanted to have a really good debate about these with regards to Astral Perception/Assensing an Illusion spell vs. the manipulation of the perceiving or targeted individual's mind as to what they are/are not perceiving. When the Manascape spell (4th Edition) came out, it was exactly what I was waiting to see. An Illusion that could and would mess with an astral perceptive. But by the descriptions, Mana-based Illusions, especially those that directly target an individual, adjust what they *think* or *believe* they are seeing (feeling, smelling, not-seeing, etc).

Would really like to see what a "Fearless"-like Quality and the Bugs/Swarm Illusions will do. ("Oh look, LUNCH!!!!")

Mana v. Illusion spells in the Illusion group have a +1 Drain modifier for Physical illusions (Invisibility v. Improved Invisibility)

Manipulation Spells... these are all over the place as this category is historically very large anyway. I am a bit confused in the comparison of telekinetic manipulations among their own kind. Magic Fingers v. Poltergeist v. Fling especially.

Mental Manipulations - Area is back to being a +2 Drain Modifier compared to the +3's in Combat category.

Can someone *PLEASE* put up at least a draft outline of the spell design system that was used for 5th Edition spell formulae now? I mean really, was everyone *THAT* afraid of Shapechange?!?

I was more poking fun at the idea of a whole new power that measures "Damage" in "Drain" to an opponent. The mechanics I didn't have an issue with.

Just a note, NeoJudas... Mind Probe's Touch Range is for giving the benefits of the extra sense (The Mind Probe ability) to the person DOING the probing, not the one being probed. So, the Target of the Ability is not the same as the target of the effect of the ability. The one whose mind is being probed does not know WHO is doing the probing, but he DOES know he is being probed.

This is why those extra sense rules are poorly written.

The range should be listed as Line of Sight but note that the mage can grant the effects to any willing subject he can touch at the time of casting.

Yeah, I know... Sadly, Wording has always sucked...
I agree that they could be better written.

Let me start out by saying that I love this story, and I believe that the rule of cool takes precedent here.

However, in Rooftops and Rainbows Misty tries to place a mark on the rigger and gets the hound instead. That tells us that the rigger is jumped into the hound by a physical cable, not by an rcc or commlink (page 266, Matrix damage). When she pulls up the control panel for the hound, she wouldn't be able to do anything with it, since she is using remote control and the rigger is using rigger control (page 265, Control Overide).

p.172 Environment & Fatigue table

For Severity Harsh it reads the damage interval as 1 minute (10 combat turns). Should read 1 minute (20 combat turns).

Page 449, Flashlight
-- Infrared flashlights are used with low-light sensors. The third sentence should say:

"Flashlights are available in white-light and infrared versions, reducing visibility modifiers at night for unaided and low-light vision, respectively."

On p. 246 there is some information missing on agents, more specifically what kind of mode they are in. This affects Initiative and potentially dice pool for a +2 hot-sim modifier. The section on sprite (p. 254) does contain information on Initiative, which would imply hot-sim, but not on whether or not they get the hot-sim modifier (I would rule NO, but a clarification would be great).

My 2 ,
Agents are smart programs, running off your deck, therefore I would rule they run the same sim that the deck is currently running and apply appropriate mods.
Sprites are creatures of the Resonance with their own persona/stats/skills/powers, I would deem they are always running hot sim and so get the bonus.

Wait a second, you mean that the range for the spell is Touch to the person receiving the benefits of the spell? So if I were the magician for instance, I'd touch my friend Jimmy as the recipient of the information with the Mind Probe. The Mind Probe itself is Probing our "friend" Steve who is NOT within touch range at all of either Jimmy (recipient of the spell) or Myself (Caster of the Spell)? That is what you just said, *AND* deviates from all historic interpretations of the Mind Probe spell and the definition of Touch Range. I'm hoping I just don't get this one, but what you've said really does go completely against the consideration.

Also understand that Mind Probe is not an "Enhanced Sense" but a "Psychic Ability" spell, and does not use the rules regulating spells such as Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, Detect Firearms, etc..... which is what you are describing in your instance.

And now you know why I think the entire thing is worded poorly.

You know, now, the entire thing, I think, has a word choice that is, probably, entirely in the negative end of the grammar spectrum.

yes. that is exactly what we mean.



in point of fact, no, it isn't an enhanced sense. it is a new sense, and follows the same rules that every single other detection spell follows.

"Detection spells give the subject a new sense (beyond
the normal five) or improve a sense the subject already
has, for as long as they are sustained."

"This spell allows the subject to telepathically probe
the mind of a specific target within range of the sense"

it may deviate from *your* historic interpretations of the mind probe spell and definition of touch range, but it has been the official interpretation for as many editions as i've been paying attention to.

for example, from SR3: "This spell allows the subject to telepathically probe the mind
of a visible target within range of the sense"

from SR4: "This spell allows the subject to telepathically probe the mind of a specific
target within range of the sense (chosen when the spell is cast)."

can't speak for SR2 or earlier, i don't own those. each edition's rules for detection spells also discuss that you cast the spell on yourself or another by touch, and then either you or the subject receive a new sense (actually, SR5 is the only one that even mentions enhancing existing senses as far as i can tell... apart from that, the wording of the first sentence describing detection spells is almost identical across all 3 editions).

I *NEVER* want to be called a power-gaming *anything* again. A twist of a few words and the whole thing is unbelievably ... broken. Word Choice is just the beginning here. Hell, even by your wording, you've just made the one spell that could always unravel all the big gaming modules of Shadowrun history at the right moment even worse. Okay, "you" haven't, but this definitely does. This is better than Ritual Sorcery/Spellcasting (depending upon edition, doesn't even matter). IF you use the new sense range rules for Mind Probe, then ignore LOS even.

Here's my proposal then... MAJOR FUBAR/TYPO. Change "Directional" to "Psychic" (like the Mindlink just before it). Using the SR3 to SR4 mechanics, at least it kept "Line of Sight" requirement in SR3. If the switch was from Directional to Psychic then the sustaining could happen at a distance, but not until a viable LOS or Touch related event occurred first.

And none of this fixes the other issues with the Drain Codes for other spells that I was pointing out. I'm calling this particular instance a major-ass Typo, both with "Directional" to "Psychic" and "within range of the sense" back to "visible target within range of the sense". Mind Probe was always powerful, I'm not going to let it here become "Free Scanning" at least.

And I do recall all the way to 1st Ed. Still have the hardback 1st ed even. May have to go unbox it now (never opened it after the move, stupid thing was falling apart 15+ years ago anyway).

Nah... you want poorly worded grammar and typoes gallore, I have a new submission to that title... Parazoology-2. My brain has done more than a few backflips on the editing situation with that one, but I couldn't find a "4th Ed Errata" area on here.

What's wrong with posting it directly in its' stickied thread...?

that isn't my wording. that's the official wording. i didn't make anything up, or twist anything; that's exactly what the books say, and have said for at least 3 editions, about how mind probe works. in fact, that's really what the rules have been for *all* detection spells for at least 3 editions.

feel free to house rule however you like, but the official rules for the spell are that you choose a person to receive the sense, who either must be yourself or someone you touch, and that person can then probe the mind of another person.

Indeed... And sensing still requires LOS, so all you have to do, as the victim, is break LOS. Of course, determining that LOS may be a bit difficult, but at least you know that you are being probed, so you can take actions.

Question from someone who doesn't have the book,Since there was some time between the PDF release and the release of the print copy was any of the errata dealt with or was the book already at the printer when the PDF was released?

Book was already off to the printer.

OK,thanks. Kind of a shame though they could have used the PDF release to find and correct errors. Sure it would have delayed the print release but it might have been worth the wait for a cleaner book.

Wouldn't be a bad idea, but my read is that they were already risking their target window.

Yeah,the core book for "Cartoon Action Hour" is out in PDF on the 30th but they're going to wait 2 to 3 weeks after so any errors in the digital release can be corrected. It would have been nice if Catalyst was able to do the same.

Not that CGL wasn't able to do that, they were... it is that they chose NOT to do that. Who cares about quality when you can hit your target date!

Quick question.
What fragging year is it?
I've looked through the BBPDF and haven't found a timeline.

wow, you're rather optimistic.

consider how long since this thread was started. now consider how much errata has been published (note: it may not be zero depending on whether or not you use the missions FAQ as an impromptu errata document).

yeah, 3 weeks to go from the book being out on PDF to us getting errata? good luck with that =S

@ dantic: 2075 if i'm not mistaken. most of the things that seem to be referring to "current" events mention 2075.

If there's only a 3 week gap, it is NOT for errata. They'd have to wait 3 weeks, and then (and only then) send it to the printer, so you'd be looking at a much larger gap.

Not in this case, the writer of "Cartoon Action Hour" flat out said on the kickstarter page that they're are using the time between the PDF and the printing to catch errors.

From the kickerstarter page

What printing will actually have errata corrected? The facebook posts have already said the 2nd will not, if I remember and read it correctly.


Starting to get a little nervous here, CGL doesn't exactly have a stellar track record in this regard.

I'm assuming the PDF version will be updated when the print version is as well?

You funny... Errata? Not bloody likely with CGL's track record. Even with the accumulation of data that is present (and always has been). That the 2nd Printing won't have it included is very, very telling indeed.

Then they've got to either be doing a very, very small run or their schedule [b]will[/b[ slip (an unfortunately common occurrence with KS stuff).