Schedule will slip anyway. It's not really "anyone's" fault, its just the nature of Kickstarter projects that most people doing them don't have a good idea of how long things take. And they're more willing to let deadlines slide for a better product.

My own KS project is over a year (nearing 18 months) past when we said it'd be available, but quality skyrocketed as a result. Our delivery date was based on the pipedream of having to do a tiny print run of like a dozen copies that we'd have pushed through Game Crafter. We had over 700 people want a copy. As a result, we found a publisher and are doing a very large print run, and negotiations took time, as well as completely redoing the artwork,* so delivery got pushed back.

*Original Revamped

Well, yes, and you have stuff like Leaving Megalopolis where they wound up adding a whole bunch more content and such, and then got serious delays imposed by a hurricane. My point was more that it is simply not realistic for a print run of reasonable scale to be 2-3 weeks out and not already be to the printers. IF CGL were to do something like that, the gap between the PDF and print release would be much larger.

i think you missed it. they said there would be like 2-3 days for people to get errata in according to his earlier post... so that 2-3 weeks is basically all time at the printers, pretty much.

Been talking with the remaining members here that are left from our beta testing days. We at least figured out how we missed it originally in third Ed (when it changed). The core book was the one book we were not involved in, or we'd have surely raised all holy hell over that situation.

So after rereading all the spells from 3rd thru to 5th, and then coming back here... New question arises. As the 5th edition mind probe is written, LOS is not needed. In much the same way that Detect Enemies and Detect Object do not require LOS. Or did that get thrashed out somehow too where those spells no longer work on items that aren't in LOS. I mean really, why have a detection sense spell that only detects a LOS enemy when one could,do that anyway without the spell in the first place?

Well, the ability to pick out a hostile in a crowd of civilians has its useful.

so far as i can tell, you are correct; you don't (officially) need LOS on someone to mind probe them any more than you need LOS to view an area with clairvoyance or to detect life (or enemies; i just chose those two specific spells because imo they demonstrate even better than detect enemies how useless they would be if you could only detect things in LOS).

you are, of course, free to change that for your own games. personally, i would be inclined to at *minimum* require LOS when the individual is selected (barring ritual magic, of course), but i don't think even that is technically required in the current version.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned: on page 420, stun baton is listed as having both +2 and +4 concealability.

Page 439: "All cyberdecks include illegal hot-sim modules right out of the box." But the table shows all cyberdecks as Restricted.

using it with a cyberdeck is probably just about the only legitimate legal use of one. well, that and rigging i guess... can't recall offhand if the rigger's gear comes with it, but if it does then when are you going to ever have a legitimate need to use hotsim apart from having those specific devices?

If printing books is anything like pressing CDs, the correct wording would be "when you have to hit your target date". Your time slot at the pressing plant is booked far in advance, if you don't use it you still have to pay AND queue up for another slot a few months further down the road. That's the reason why a lot of games get a patch right on release day, no matter how many bugs still are on the list the master copy absolutely has to go out.


Anyway, the German printing has already been announced to receive the customary errata...but before you break out the champagne or book language classes, the process must have been mildly disorganized, there will probably not even be a changelog...
Then again, for 19.95 I'll still have to buy the book, damn you Pegasus!

So does that mean some dilligent German dumpshocker is going to buy it and translate all the errata for us?

Depends on whether you find anyone willing to do a side-by-side comparison of a 500 page book. Personally, I'd rather type in Lavabit's SSL keys

Page 363, the maglocks: The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts. That step is described, complete with how to bypass tamperproof systems, and we also get told how to put on the case again. What is suspiciously absent is the meat part in between, how do I actually bypass the electronics inside?

The test required to bypass the lock is dependent on the type of device and is covered in the paragraphs immediately following the one you quoted.

The entries for the individual verification types list how to bluff your way past the "front door", with synthesized DNA, fake fingerprints, etc.. With the exception of the keypad, it does not tell you how to rewire the internals to open the lock, and just having that option for one type of input would be extremely weird.

Both keypad and key card can be bypassed this way, which I think is the intent of the developers, in this case. Other maglock devices are simply to secure for a hardwire override.

Index, Page 468: Auctioneer Business Clothes, 437

Computing at its most basic level: Input, Processing, Output. Something takes an input from the user (keycard, passcode, iris pattern, anal circumference...), a second something checks whether the input is correct, and a third something performs the appropriate action. The whole point of rewiring is to bypass steps one and two and directly hotwire the actual locking mechanism. For more information, check SOTA:63, from which the 5th Ed security chapter was copied

So... If CGL is just going to Copy Paste editions, why should we ever buy new Editions? I mean really. *Shakes Head*

You could say the same of the vast majority of software - code is recycled all the time; why not perfectly serviceable and applicable text? It's not like the whole book is one big copy/paste job, anyways.

If I already have the text, why should I pay for it again?

You'd have a point if vast stretches of the book were simple copy/paste work. When it's a paragraph here and there in a text of this size, you do not.

And in point of fact had they written something new and it had been perceived as worse than what got copied, people would be asking why they couldn't just copy the old passage over.

SR5 is vast stretches of copied text from SR4. That said, your statement above is probably true...
But then I have been asking that same question. I think SR5 is an epic failure when taken as a whole. Which is sad... It could have been so much more.

Large chunks of SR4 were copied out of SR3. When it comes to nonmechanical rules that stay the same, there's really no reason not to copy things.

Indeed... I understand it, esthetically, but financially it is a bad choice (especially for someone like me with little disposable income)... I really hate buying the relatively same ruleset multiple times...

Copying large sections for 4th was to be expected, since 5th was supposed to be an evolved version. But what gets me is that they C&P'ed several parts from 3rd...I honestly can't remember what it was, but this is not the first time

There seems to be no clear definition of what it means to go "berserk"
Specifically the sentence: "When you’re berserk, you go after your attacker(s) without regard for your own safety."
could be a bit clearer on the mechanics.
Does this mean you are not getting your defense test? Do you have to enter close combat? Do you have to leave cover even if you wouldn't gain a mechanical benefit by doing so?

way OT this one...


Ah.... the crux of my statements from other forums earlier.

with each edition, it's the minutia that make things interesting. There are some details that should have been banished during "playtesting" (Accuracy of melee weapons is a current discussion in our games here for instance). There are certain factors, qualities and mechanics from older editions that should never been changed (First Ed Mind Probe vs. Fifth Ed Mind Probe). And sometimes people just need to accept that changes in editions for games while a company is producing stuff for more editions than the newest.... just smacks at annoyance and bad customer relations.

All IMO of course.

Archtypes with 2 connection fixers.
Pg 386: Connection 2 Has one or two friends with some Knowledge skills, or some minor social influence.

Should the Fixer contact connections be raised?

Smuggler has Connection 1 fixer.
p386: "Virtually no social influence; only useful for their Knowledge skills."

Is there a compiled list available of all the things posted in this topic? So that people can check whether the thing they noticed has been mentioned already.

This really should be changed:
1) Taking Aim is a Simple Action. Performing any other action before shooting, including 'Free Actions', breaks Aim.
2) Called Shot is a Free Action. You can't aim to perform a called shot.
3) Adept Centering is a Free Action. A physical adept cannot try to focus while lining up a shot.

Ergo - snipers (even adept snipers) always, always target center mass. This makes me wonder why a called shot is a free action, and isn't, instead, part of an actual attack action.

Pg 303 Spirits.

Depending how you read the rules either

a) All the spirits need the flight skill (except the fire spirit which has it listed)
or
b) Flight skill needs to be removed from fire spirit (changed to running???).

Was at the Spiel Essen today and got the German hardcopy (it's only 19.95, what was I supposed to do? )

Changes regarding stuff I previously posted in this thread. Bear in mind that AFAICT Pegasus did the changes as a sideline while translating, there does not even seem to be a real changelog. Therefore this may or may not be indicative of what a hypothetical official CGL errata will look like:

- First things first, the wireless baton is still there in all its glory.
+ Notation for quality costs is now consistent
+ Sprite's OS score clarified, starts at 0 and increases as normal
- Re-registering a sprite and failing still (slightly) unclear
- Sprites still have no mental attributes
- Compiling/Registering/Decompiling and their magic equivalents are still limited by Level/Force, WTF? But at least the examples now reflect this fact
- You still need a cyberdeck to open your garage door, because using Control Device for anything which normally requires no test turns it into a Sleaze action
- Shotgun descriptions still occasionally refer "shot"
- Colt Government retains Electric Firing w/o the RC
- Explosive rounds are still described as shaped charges. BOOM
- Ejecting a clip and toggling firing modes remain both general wifi bonus and claimed as Smartgun function
- Maximum armor bonus remains capped by STR despite encumbrance (in other words, more than STR bonus just adds encumbrance and no armor)
- ...the example still says you get full bonus armor (and encumbrance)
- Still nothing on what to do with a maglock once the case is open
- Prices and chargen money seemingly remain unchanged
+ The hotpatch errata was added, obviously

Overall, I'm not impressed by my -- admittedly very small -- sampling.

Possible Errata...
The intent is not specified in the rulebook. p316 getting around mana barriers. It could be read to either alert the creator or not alert the creator by RAW. So I'd argue both RAW and RAI is silent on the matter.

Pressing through wards doesn't mention anything about whether it alerts the creator or not. In all prior editions it did. It required masking as the wards creater to try and sneak through without alerting anyone.

If that is intended not to alert the creator... anyone can bypass any ward simply by making repeated opposed tests until they get through. Which makes any ward a pointless security exercise since anyone could simply press through with time.

no. it makes *unguarded* wards useless (or at least, much less useful; sometimes a delay is useful in itself, and of course the dreaded elevator shaft wards can still screw you over). if you've got a guy standing there watching, and he notices that the supposedly completely ordinary truck driver seems to be standing there occasionally pushing against an invisible wall every second or two, it does quite a bit.

p.142: "Binding is used to compel a summoned spirit to perform a number of additional services. See Binding, p. 300."

There is no action in the book that describes how to compel a summoned spirit to perform additional services. In binding, p. 300-301, it only describes how to summon the bound spirit and get an initial number of services. As mentioned before in this thread, the test mentioned on that page is Summoning + Magic. Nowhere in the book can I find a test involving the binding skill.

I am guessing the correct errata here would be for the binding test to perhaps use the skill Binding (!). And a second test shoud be described, where later, the summoner can add more services to an already bound spirit (should reagents be spent again, should the spirit still use Force x 2 to resist.. I dunno).

Edit: Here's another one that I'm not sure whether it's been mentioned before.

p. 300: In step 2 of summoning, the limit on the opposed test is the Force of the spirit you are summoning. This means that if you are not spending reagents or edge, summoning a force 1 spirit fails at least 33% of the time regardless of your proficiency.

PG 145 states that you can create software with the "Software" skill, however the only non technomancer test using software is Disarm Data Bomb.

The reasoning for that is because creating "Software" is not a Matrix Test... it is a Build/Repair Test.

And because the rules for what you can create aren't gonna be around until data trails.

I get that, but the referring page seems wrong since it sends you to the matrix section?

Probably to give you an idea of what programs do, and are capable of, in Shadowrun.

I did a quick search of the topic, and could not find this exact issue. PP 310 lists Improved Reflexes and gives you
by my math that is +3 R and +3d6, So where is the other d6 coming in?

they may have actually been thinking ahead to the possibility of other races. they may have been wanting to clarify that drugs (which iirc are not explicitly restricted from stacking with improved reflexes) cannot take you above 5 dice. could be a mistake. could be something else that i haven't considered.

Force 8 Increase Reflexes? Additionally, there's liable to be new 'ware coming for hackers and riggers that get them there in VR, and similarly echoes for technomancers (based on SR4)

Wouldn't work. No other reaction enhancements possible from tech or magic. Drugs are are not directly prohibited, so that COULD work. This could also be accounting for Astral initiative for Astral Adepts, Which WOULD equal 5d6.

Increase Reflexes at Force 8 does get you there - it provides 4d6 extra dice if you get enough hits. As for the 'ware/echoes, the SR4 versions were actually explicit exceptions to the rules on how many Initiative Passes you could have, and explicitly stacked with the hot sim bonus.

Power prohibits further magical augmentation. But having an achemical preparation of go juice would be cool, as an alternate.

I'm not talking about a power. The Improved Reflexes Adept Power and the Increase Reflexes spell are two different things, and the latter is capable of getting you up to the full 5d6.

As an alternate means, I agree with you...

All they're doing is referencing the universal rule about number of dice, in case they later introduce something that stacks with that power.