If you say so, because you know every single thing about me and my personality, nature, and habits, right?

And as I said, the trick is to convince them that what you want is not against their nature in the first place.

Thank you, Deacon.

Might I ask if it's occurred to you that this built in "limitation" was designed as such? That that's why this very thing is brought up in the fiction? That much like being a mage you are subject to in-game "environmental" backlash (geek the mage first)? I submit that had your "fixer adept" gone for a less glaringly powerful setup, you'd have less of a problem in letting him stay?

And regarding 2). The question was whether these uber-adepts were taking over your games, if your players were all suddenly taking up adepts? You've said one character which seems perfectly reasonable, were there more?

I would say that with all the edges and mods you can. but this guard or whatever will at some point realise his mind has been messed with.. after all it is like a much weaker version of control thoughts. someone tricked into doing something really bad for them will first think `what was I thinking`, in a world like SR the guys next thought might very well be `was magic used against me?` or `was I drugged`?
come on, if someone you never met before convinced you somehow to give him your life savings and next morning thinking of the story he gave you you couldnt *quite* believe you did it <as mods are no longer in effect> your first thought would be `was I drunk`? and you would inmediately suspect foul play.

in SR that corp sec. guard might let you in, only to have second thoughts 5 minutes later & call his superior/sound the alarms or at least point the cameras at you to make *SURE* you are doing what you said you would..

DS

*Bang, bang, bang* Attempted unauthorised entry detected. Come on, give us something with more challenge.

I know, i tried to say the same you did, but with less words. Didn't work out well, it seems.

Good for you. Now try that against an Adept with more persuasive ability than Hitler, Steve Jobs, and Ghandi rolled into one.

~J

*Bang, bang, bang* Attempted unauthorised entry detected. Come on, give us something with more challenge again.

In a word, bullshit.

~J

What are this guy's instructions?

If he's told to merely shoot anyone who attempts to walk past then you might as well employ an auto-turret. Maybe the key word here is authorised...

How does he determine who is authorised and who isn't? Whatever the method, how do legitimate emplyees get in? How many false-positives (and thus dead employees) are required before the guy gets new standing orders. If there's any interaction between the employee and the guard then there's an opportunity to fast-talk him. If there's none, then why is a human employed to stand there?

I'm not entirely sure what you intend to achieve by presenting scenarios of this type and saying "beat that". I could easily do the same -

you're in an air-tight coffin that allows no movement whatsoever (the interior is sculpted around your body shape) and you have 10 seconds of breathing time left. The coffin is buried 40 feet below ground in rapidly solidifying concrete. You have no tools available and are completely naked. you die.

- and then yell "ha ha, you suck and I'm the greatest".

Don't count me amongst that everyone. Not once in all the time I have spent here (or elsewhere) discussing Shadowrun have I ever considered that to be true.

not quite true. with aptitude and good reputation, you can match the kinesics TN mod. now, it's true that only adepts can get -6 TN. and pheremones add all of two dice--i really don't think tailored pheremones are the problem, here.

Thanks Crusher Never underestimate the ability of a player to destroy the most careful laid plans... and I would have got away with it if it wasn't for that pesky ally.

Also, yeah - now you mention it - it IS the tn mods I don't like. Doesn't it actually say that (only not in so many words) in the description of aptitude in SRComp?

Also half of the fun of running is not the drawing of the gun, but the bit afterwards - that's why such a large part of the rulebook is about combat...

There were several other adepts, one run by the same guy, a few others run by other people. Through various mistakes they've made (namely, associating with my completely amoral, paranoid backstabbing decker), they've all been removed from the campaign.

Honestly, the only problems I have with adepts is when they start looking at all the adept powers and realizing that they can turn themselves into John Woo with pistols, or Bruce Lee with kung fu, or The Invisible Man with stealth. And they end up turning themselves into one-trick ponies. 200 karma on down the road, these adepts might start getting to the versatility the samurai was capable of, straight out of chargen. Of course the samurai, after 200 karma, is probably scarier than the adept, because while the adept might shine in *one* area, the samurai is decent in everything the adept missed.

The powers in the 2064 book, well, I stated problems with Kinesics and Linguistics, and Infusion; the animal powers are... okay, and the rest of it is pretty decent. As a GM, I'm going to be limiting access to some of these powers to what I call 'metabilities', meaning that the adept can gain them only after Initiation. Kinesics will almost definitely be one of these. This way I'm not 'limiting' Way of the Speaker adepts -- I'm merely charging them a bit more for the power. Linguistics, though, is right out. Free karma for 0.25 power points is bad.

In the game I play in, well, we have a lot of players who don't understand the setting so much as they understand the rules. I've seen players take assault rifles downtown in the back seat of their Westwinds (which, by the way, they let the autopilot drive -- which makes it so easy to get them pulled over), or do similar things that were I so inclined, would write up and submit as a C.L.U.E. file, except I think that's dead and buried. The adept fixer is one of those. The GM treats magic as just that -- magic. So to everyone here who's been screaming that the NPCs should just be feeling like they're going up against super negotiators, WRONGO! It's magic. They know it's magic. They know it's unfair. They are lashing out against the idiot adept who is completely blowing them away at the negotiating table. Trouble is, they're lashing out at the group, because well, that's logical... he does run with us, after all. And they know that with Junkie around, if they have a problem with someone in the group, that someone will cease to be a problem shortly. (It's not that I go put a bullet in their brains; it's just that a decker is the master of information. And where that information goes. And what that information is.)

It's worth pointing out (well, okay, it's on topic, and calling you wrong to your face is fun!) that Tailored Pheromones can add 4 dice, not just 2. If you buy them cultured, any benefit they give is doubled outright, making a cultured, level 2, version of them a fairly handy negotiating tool.

Which isn't to say they are "the problem," or whatever. I wanted to say you're wrong, though, when you say they can only add two dice. I just like making you feel stupid !!

Ah, I see. For some reason I'd confused it with saying that it's beyond the ability of Adepts. You're right, nothing particularly aids them in conjuring.

~J

There could be arguments made for two things *one being a metamagic* :

1. Multi-Tasking and Centering twice ... *Yeah, I know that shadowrunFAQ already answered otherwise, but the rules themselves do not prohibit it*

2. Atument to a conjuring specific focus for a TN reduction on the Conjuring Test

You're right, they don't. That's what GMs are for.

As for the second one, it's pretty iffy

Well done thinking of potential abuses, though. I wasn't coming up with any.

I have to agree with this. If someones to powerful, use it against him. It's how you stop powergamers and it is how you make the game fun. Though, there should be some realism where the fixer has to take some measures to discover it (hire a mage to scan his aura, etc).
As for the adept fast-talking his way past the guards: what's the problem? It's his power to do such things. Like the mage is able to make someone invisible so they can sneak past the guard. It is only way to solve the problem. It is no more powerful than simply sniping out the guards and run by. The fast-talker will be caught on camera and even if the decker wipes the recordings afterwards the guard will remember the guy's face. He may have facial sculpting, but there is indeed a limit on how many powers an adept can have. You can't have it all.

Ye, the last sentence does say that atunement doesn't work with magical skills.
And to put it in the same line with how you answered my question about the karma issue: Could you actually give a reason for that?
And don't go for "because it's says so", because that's too obvious and not the point of my question ...

The word "balance" is all I wanted to hear

Because I still "fail" to see the connection. Different levels and completly different angles.
Magic and thus the ability to cast spells is a basic concept of the game: Agreed, never questioned
Adepts as magical characters should be able to have similar advantages, since they are magical: Agreed, never questioned either
Cognition provides several advantages including a mechanic that is already known from the Mnemonic Enhancer and thus fits that "demand": Agreed, never questioned either.
Cognition is compatible with Mnemonic Enhancer and thus recreates a situation that previously was critizised on the Mnemonic Enhancer as being too strong: That's the point where my actual question lies:
Why bring back something that previously was errataed away?

Thus, this wasn't my question ...

Nor was that my actual question, although I asked it once I told you that I didn't see your answer as anything connected to my initial question: I simply wanted to show you, that that's a differnt issue ...

I'm only refering to that balance issue of karmic reduction of 2 points per skill level.
All other elements of Cognition are just fine with me ...

Think about it. You know there is a way for that to happen.

In case you forgot: