I agree. Unless we *need* "those" to get out, I'm probably gonna advise against any detours on the way out. If she makes it worth our while later to come back in, maybe we would, but I gotta imagine security'd be tightend after her escape. It's not a job I'd be likely to take... then again I say that alot these days.

The same, I'm afraid, could apply to my catching what everyone is hashing out wrt this thread

Everyone seems to be saying close enough to the same thing, I'll get on with it.

The answer is, she hesitates, with a definite corresponding flicker in her aura.

"Well...is there? In case you haven't figured it out we are kinda pressed for time."

Other than that I'm on board with what you folks are putting down.

...

oh snaps!

we're gonna be down here a bit...

is it concievable that due to the difficulty for astral beings in passing through living material, that we could infer that living, especially awakend tissue creates friction or resistance, and thusly could a physical person walk down that hallway and let Trogdor piggy back to the elevator? would it help if the carrier was dual natured?

Don't remember this one at all. (Reference?) Wouldn't it make hash of the potential to be trapped away from your body by FAT bacteria and such?

does the package say *anything* to Ghost, reacting to when Troggy gets sucked along the corridor?

if not, then I suggest something along the lines of:

Ghost: <surprised, and as if to no-one in particular> What the devil? What just happened? Where'd he go?!

Given these, I might consider having Trog do what he can to erase our astral signatures and just risk the hit to his Magic by getting disrupted. Can a projecting character disrupt himself? I figure that if it were possible then most mages would learn how to do it early on; it's better than dying.

Note: next time we try a different linking setup. Leaving no EM signature is all well and good, but there is no excuse for requiring a blimp sit on the roof for all eyes to see.

it was done intentionally and calculated, to try to provoke a reaction out of the Package, who it seems is dual natured...
(maybe not : shrug : )

ok, it was probably a stupid idea.






btw: what beings, other than shape shifters, are permanently dual natured?


edit: and yes, I think there was at least a subvocal mike if not a transducer

Anything in the critters book with a z next to the essence, anything that SURGES into it, cyberzombies, ghouls, and whatever the GM decides should be dual natured as an exception even if none of the normal conditions fit it correctly.

I like this approach.

Yes, but as I'm reading it, those are mutually exclusive. "You resist drain after spell effects." "All drain while projecting is physical." You're not projecting anymore after the spell is cast, right?

I'm not up on my magic, so this might not at all be useful, but;

if he casts *anything* at a strong enough force to take physical drain while projecting, causing KO, perhaps disruption can occur as a result of resisting drain from casting a useful LOS spell on our remaining people in the building.

thusly:
1) casts some business->
2) resists drain,
3) goes unconsious,
4) disruption,
5) ...
6) profit?

Ah, but the problem is that you aren't disrupted unless you take deadly Stun damage (sr3 p. 176, third paragraph down). Since all damage from spells is physical it won't ever disrupt you; you'll just eventually die from overdamage.

The interesting thing is, if you look at that paragraph they specify being disrupted in astral combat as when a character must check for magic loss. Since they don't specify astral combat anywhere above that, maybe all other circumstances--for instance, knocking yourself out--where you would be disrupted don't actually force you to check for magic loss?

Anyway, I agree that you'd need some kind of Willpower roll to knock yourself out, or at least a Willpower roll to determine if you can force yourself to fail your spell resistance test. Maybe another roll to determine if you can "catch yourself" in time to make the drain resistance test? Ugh that's pretty complicated:

1. Sorcery test
2. Willpower to withhold Spell Resistance (TN 6?)
2b. Spell Resistance
3. Willpower to keep Drain Resistance (TN 6?)
3b. Drain Resistance

we were just about to cut communications with the outside, have we done that yet? if not, could we ask somebody to poke him with a stun baton or club him or something? stun damage until he's disrupted?

This is where we were at before Trog got sucked down the corridor, and that's what Ghost and the Package are sticking to. Trog fell behind, so he gets left behind; Ghost has neither the time nor the inclination to try to knock him out in astral combat. Ghost and the Package use the elevator to get out, and Trog can either go exploring, disrupt himself, or dig his way out. Either way, the elevator's leaving, and the two physical people have to be on it before Solitaire leaves, the cameras come back on and we get stuck. We've already lost probably twenty to thirty seconds sitting here watching Trogdor get burninated; let's not waste more.

I think I'm not articulating myself clearly here... I'm not saying ghost attacks trogdor... where's trogdor's body? with the rigger? I'm suggesting the rigger inflict stun damage on trogdor's body.

Can we try what Crusher Bob suggests?

Can we be certain we won't *need* Trogdor to ensure the safe and effective removal of the Package?
If we decide to cut Trogdor loose to deal with it on his own, he might be stuck underground or unavailable for the rest of the mission. Is there anything that *Only* Trogdor can do that cannot be done by another member of our team, say Diamond?

No - I'd gathered that there was some question as to exactly when or even whether you wanted those communications disrupted until Ghost and the girl were out of the building.

You're all on the same page re Trogdor suggestions, so it's safe to guess that one way or another, Trogdor is left to his fate. It's out of Ghost's hands at any rate. So after the (game-time brief!) delay the two present physically make it past the central chamber and are bolting for the elevator, which opens on cue. They're inside. It closes. They're on their way up (how far is up to you). Solitaire mentions that it was much harder to open the elevator back doors this time (ref. p.4) - what system security there is has definitely increased: still mostly "trap" software, but she has also had to stealth a couple of determined traces. (Current tally: 7 ... -> 8 as she's talking to you)

Trogdor:

Except for spirits, I don't know the disruption rules in that much detail. I've never run into this before. I can say for the spell itself spell damage is stun (obviously!), and I'll second Crusher Bob that all drain damage while astrally projecting is physical. Drain damage is immediate upon casting the spell, regardless of whether or not the spell succeeds, so it's automatically first acquired.

Beyond that, I'm lost. Eyeless Blond, you cited the section: could you please quote the relevant passage(s)? Also, in casting Stunball (physical spell? not mana?), does Trogdor have to see the body it's being cast upon? (Lots of ways around the spell though, for a body to acquire sufficient stun damage.) If no helpful rules lawyer can come up with an official ruling (I can't think of anything, but that doesn't mean much), I'll make a ruling next post - and it most definitely will involve probability of magic loss, even if the book only specifies such loss in astral combat. (Considering what disruption means, it's just wrong not to.) We'll just take the WL roll as a successful given.

I can see one huge practical problem however: if we accept that any type of stunning damage equates to astral combat stun, how could anyone willing to cast stun-deadly magic on themself ever be trapped astrally within the rules? It seems like the universal "out".

Safe to assume that, regardless, there would be some quick and audible communication between Trogdor and Ghost as to options before the decision is made. (Audible, because it sounds like you want the girl to hear.) She's listening - mostly she's really wanting out of there - but she's not chiming in with anything (although when he suggests disrupting himself she shudders). If you ask her she'll shrug, although she'll look upset doing it. "Maybe," she finally ventures, "if you had an earth-type conjured before you went in? I mean, maybe, like a guide?"

Meanwhile, outside:

The other gang's here. Diamond is suddenly in the middle of a knives-and-firefight ... and they're not too picky about differentiating targets.

As I said, high time to be gone. There still seems to be some contention over whether we should leave Trog behind or not, though, so maybe we should finish that debate before moving to this point?

The rules for disruption are on page 176:

On the same pages btw are rules for making unarmed attacks on the astral plane. Maybe he could do that instead to avoid the physical drain of Stunball?

Either way, Trog should make sure to do this while tunneling through the earth, so he doesn't leave astral traces of the spell or the disruption. And under no circumstances should he go exploring; whatever's drawing him in is almost certainly Very. Bad. and nothing we particularly need to worry ourselves over.

Well, I suppose it pretty much is, yes. I don't really see a problem with that myself. Of course, you are still more than likely losing a magic point to do it (or taking a geas), which really bites hard.