Full Version: Infiltration Challenge
I think some commentary from Galina would help things along. As long as she can look at us and not say, "My God, what is that?" we'll move on to figuring out what to do next.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| I think some commentary from Galina would help things along. As long as she can look at us and not say, "My God, what is that?" we'll move on to figuring out what to do next. |
Seconded.
Sounds good to me.
Bizzump for posterity.
Talia, I think its your ball.
Galina's response to Juliana's quarantine would be welcome as would Juliana's responses to Solitaire's (admittedly somewhat poorly informed) interrogation regarding the strange effects witnessed, odd behavior exhibited and the wacky thing stuck in her aura (assuming Solitaire actually knows about said wacky thing).
Galina's response to Juliana's quarantine would be welcome as would Juliana's responses to Solitaire's (admittedly somewhat poorly informed) interrogation regarding the strange effects witnessed, odd behavior exhibited and the wacky thing stuck in her aura (assuming Solitaire actually knows about said wacky thing).
Oops, sorry, been a scrambling for rent kind of week; and additionally for a few weeks now Dumpshock once again has started kicking me out literally at the point of log-in: I had to log in four times before I could get the reply screen, and twice more before I could get this single message posted -- make that three times, now -- no, four (grr) -- and then the quiet moment of slight panic when the post didn't initially appear, had to repost twice: and this kind of thing has been typical for me on Dumpshock for some time now. (We already know the log-in issue is due to the old server, so it's just a matter of dealing until the server can be properly replaced with a working server.)
In any case, I'll try to get something more substantial up a bit later today: took all the time I had just now just to try to get temp-logged in!
In any case, I'll try to get something more substantial up a bit later today: took all the time I had just now just to try to get temp-logged in!
Okay, back, and accessible, and the server hasn't kicked me out today (yet). So let's tackle this 
First, Trogdor's still awol. The team wouldn't know what's up, but since we OOC sort of do, he'd be trying to get loose in every way possible before he has to resort to the disruption. That means that at the moment, he's still digging and hoping. He's got a few more hours yet before disruption becomes the only option. That means that for all intents and purposes, he's out of the immediate picture.
First, Trogdor's still awol. The team wouldn't know what's up, but since we OOC sort of do, he'd be trying to get loose in every way possible before he has to resort to the disruption. That means that at the moment, he's still digging and hoping. He's got a few more hours yet before disruption becomes the only option. That means that for all intents and purposes, he's out of the immediate picture.
| QUOTE |
| Eh, I have a feeling Galina's okay, though I'm not sure if that's IC or OOC knowledge speaking there. - Eyeless Blond |
One thing which stymied you earlier might be a quasi-vote in her favour now: Galina seems to be very loyal to the people she chooses. Then, it was Juliana, and you initially had a hard time getting any information out of her until you placed it in a more Juliana-favourable context. Now, it's Diamond, as her contact. Even gut feelings are based on tangibles.
| QUOTE |
| As for the ward idea, what I was suggesting is that the safehouse that the group is meeting up at will likely have multiple rooms; a team lifestyle for five is probably going to have Middle space at least. One or more of these rooms will likely be individualy warded |
Call that the loose description of your safehouse, then. Ghost will have started to regain groggy consciousness (barely) by the time you get there.
| QUOTE |
| [Solitaire:] "What do you know about the effect in the basement?" and "What is it that we have to get off of you?" - pragma |
We can figure maybe that these questions were asked before you even got to the safehouse? Juliana shudders, like she's not wanting to think about it, but knows she has to. "Which effect?" she asks. "The people vanishing into the basement?" [shudder again] "The stuff they were pumping into the air? The dogs? The whole ... feel ... of the place?" (Sorry, but she's just not connecting the pulses with "basement" as such. She's got far too many other connections with basement.)
For the second: "This thing," she spits out -- but although she comes very close to it, she doesn't quite shove at the collar around her neck with her hands, doesn't even quite touch it. "It's got something anchored to it, feedback --" and by the look on her face you know she's come very close to having triggered it again.
But she hasn't
| QUOTE |
| I think some commentary from Galina would help things along. As long as she can look at us and not say, "My God, what is that?" we'll move on to figuring out what to do next - Crusher Bob |
She doesn't say it, or anything like that
When you arrive, Galina goes straight over to Diamond and starts assessing his injuries. She's concerned, definitely, but she's not panicked. She won't make it more than it is, but she also won't try to gloss it over to everyone else like it isn't serious. She asks who did the field stabilisation, and after she's told, she says curtly, "Good job."
(Eyeless: you're in a position to know how much I'm downtoning Galina's personality and manner of speaking, here: simply as a matter of practicality
)With that, even as she starts gathering up enough spell mana that the most mundane of you start feeling those shivers running up and down your spines, she asks about Juliana. (I'm thinking it's reasonable to assume she hasn't seen her yet: you'd be trying to get Diamond to Galina asap.) Some serious healing spells being gathered, there; and this is an experienced team, you know they're going to mean some serious drain on her afterward.
That's as far as I can get before you specify what you're doing with wards; although we can flesh out the conversation in the escaping van first (before arrival at safehouse). I'll also note that, since most safehouses have more than one way in/out: it would be possible for the team to get Juliana into the safehouse completely unseen by Galina if they want to.
After Diamond is stabilized and healed I think that bringing Juliana into the safehouse and taking her into a warded room would be wise (assuming the anchoring 'thing' or her potential dual nature doesn't prevent such a course of action). It would also be good to inform Galina that there is some sort of harmful magical effect which has been emanating from the extractee in order to justify her renewed incarceration.
Come to think of it, it would probably be good if Solitaire told Juliana that she was going to be put into a warded room to try to stop the pulses from hurting her or anyone else. Also attempting to clarify what was going on in the building and what the pulses are could be beneficial. However, if Juliana ever seems to get too excited it would be worth laying off of the questions for a while to prevent another pulse.
Come to think of it, it would probably be good if Solitaire told Juliana that she was going to be put into a warded room to try to stop the pulses from hurting her or anyone else. Also attempting to clarify what was going on in the building and what the pulses are could be beneficial. However, if Juliana ever seems to get too excited it would be worth laying off of the questions for a while to prevent another pulse.
| QUOTE |
| After Diamond is stabilized and healed |
I'll just draw your attention to Galina not having cast the spell yet. Gathering the healing energies while asking the question, is all.
Since Galina is still gather energy for healing, i'd say have Solitaire or somebody tell her something along the lines of "While you take care of Diamond, we're going to settle Juliana in a room wiht a ward, for her protection as well as our own. We'll explain in more detail once you're finished with Diamond." And then usher Juliana into a warded room.
I don't see any point in hiding Juliana from Galina, especially since we were planning on getting Galina's help with whatever is causing the pulses.
I don't see any point in hiding Juliana from Galina, especially since we were planning on getting Galina's help with whatever is causing the pulses.
I've got a bad feeling about Galina re: The Package. Her behavior worries me. If we don't have to advertise J's presence, lets not. I worry she went straight to Diamond not just out of professionalism and loyalty, but because she already knows what will become of The Package, good or bad, for J or us. We might just end up being bystanders caught in a crossfire rather than just pawns, which is somethig we're used to.
It seems to me that the Hand of Fate has gone the extra mile to protect us from ourselves. Let's accept the gift.
-We were able to question The Package en route.
- Galina hasn't necessarily seen The Package.
-Galina hasn't casted her healing spell *yet.*
I trust Galina to the extent that she's a healer, and she's Diamond's contact. Aside from that, she's an unknown quantity, and won't necessarily be interested in helping us collect our paycheck. On top of that, our safe house location may be comprimised by forces beyond our control.
What if Galina casting anything, healing for instance, while The Package is on site has an influence on the mojo around J's neck? What if Galina doing a heal spell is the signal for the Black Hats to show up and take away our only bargaining chip? What if the Package can and is being traced by her magic collar? What if the collar goes off and hurts Galina while she's working?
One of the first rules of war, and make no mistake surviving the mean streets of SR Seattle is a war, is to stay moving when your enemy knows where you are. It seems to me that the solution to this dilemma is to separate the team. The wounded will be more or less as safe with Galina as they would be otherwise, and if not, we can trade the Package for them and our paycheck. The logistics of it are not insurmountable either. Assuming Talia lets us get a little revisionist because we didn't flesh all this out earlier <3 At worst, the war wagon drops them off, at best we split up before the hide out, by meeting up with a contact who can give them a lift, or putting them in an unregistered taxi cab. As long as it doesn't jeapardise the health or safety of the Package, I think it's something to consider.
Then again, I may just be barking at the moon.
EB, CB, what do you make of all this?
-We were able to question The Package en route.
- Galina hasn't necessarily seen The Package.
-Galina hasn't casted her healing spell *yet.*
I trust Galina to the extent that she's a healer, and she's Diamond's contact. Aside from that, she's an unknown quantity, and won't necessarily be interested in helping us collect our paycheck. On top of that, our safe house location may be comprimised by forces beyond our control.
What if Galina casting anything, healing for instance, while The Package is on site has an influence on the mojo around J's neck? What if Galina doing a heal spell is the signal for the Black Hats to show up and take away our only bargaining chip? What if the Package can and is being traced by her magic collar? What if the collar goes off and hurts Galina while she's working?
One of the first rules of war, and make no mistake surviving the mean streets of SR Seattle is a war, is to stay moving when your enemy knows where you are. It seems to me that the solution to this dilemma is to separate the team. The wounded will be more or less as safe with Galina as they would be otherwise, and if not, we can trade the Package for them and our paycheck. The logistics of it are not insurmountable either. Assuming Talia lets us get a little revisionist because we didn't flesh all this out earlier <3 At worst, the war wagon drops them off, at best we split up before the hide out, by meeting up with a contact who can give them a lift, or putting them in an unregistered taxi cab. As long as it doesn't jeapardise the health or safety of the Package, I think it's something to consider.
Then again, I may just be barking at the moon.
EB, CB, what do you make of all this?
I agree that trusting Galina is a large risk and that, in the shape we are in, having her become hostile based on some action with Juliana would be a very bad thing. However, I am hesitant to leave the comfort of wards just in case Juliana is ritually tracked or targeted. Also, Galina may have a better idea than we do of how to remove the death neclace.
I think Juliana should be far away when the healing spells are cast to prevent any unwanted feedback adn the should be moved into the wards. Advent is largely uninjured and could remain outside to monitor the Star, keep pursuers in check and provide a small army's worth of fire support should Galina turn hostile.
I propose that Solitaire should smuggle Juliana through a back door when the spell is done. Ghost can keep as watchful an eye as possible on diamond during that period of time.
Additionally, futher interrogation of Juliana seems likely to be profitable.
I think Juliana should be far away when the healing spells are cast to prevent any unwanted feedback adn the should be moved into the wards. Advent is largely uninjured and could remain outside to monitor the Star, keep pursuers in check and provide a small army's worth of fire support should Galina turn hostile.
I propose that Solitaire should smuggle Juliana through a back door when the spell is done. Ghost can keep as watchful an eye as possible on diamond during that period of time.
Additionally, futher interrogation of Juliana seems likely to be profitable.
| QUOTE (pragma @ Jul 13 2005, 07:23 AM) |
| I agree that trusting Galina is a large risk and that, in the shape we are in, having her become hostile based on some action with Juliana would be a very bad thing. However, I am hesitant to leave the comfort of wards just in case Juliana is ritually tracked or targeted. Also, Galina may have a better idea than we do of how to remove the death neclace. I think Juliana should be far away when the healing spells are cast to prevent any unwanted feedback adn the should be moved into the wards. Advent is largely uninjured and could remain outside to monitor the Star, keep pursuers in check and provide a small army's worth of fire support should Galina turn hostile. I propose that Solitaire should smuggle Juliana through a back door when the spell is done. Ghost can keep as watchful an eye as possible on diamond during that period of time. Additionally, futher interrogation of Juliana seems likely to be profitable. |
If the Black Hats know what Galina knows, they know that we were likely to bring The Package back to the safe house. Granted that is a big "If." But regardless, I think that bringing The Package into the safehouse means we're deciding to trust Galina, which I think we don't. If we bring the Package into the safe house, we might as well let Galina know about it, we probably wouldn't be able to hide it from her anyway. If we're taking that risk, we might as well avail ourselves of any benefits of her skills and knowledge. Failing that, I think we should continue to entertain other possibilities than bringing the Package into the safehouse. Talia has been extra kind in not letting us cook our own goose, I reckon.
What about wards? I'm not up on magic... are wards blatantly obvious on the astral plane? Can someone percieving sense the ward is there, and from what distance? Can they sense what is within the ward? Can wards be placed on a moving vehicle, would that be more trouble than it is worth?
As for the mojo on J's neck, it might be that it's just some sort of inhibitor and nothing more. If that's the case, leaving it on her might keep her more managable. Otherwise anything is possible with it, and I guess we can't tinker with it until we understand it better.
Does anybody concious and able to make a phone call (or does anybody who is unconsious know somebody we can approach saying, "Hey, remember me? I'm a friend of X" ) have a contact other than Galina that our Rigger can cart the Package to a meet up that could take a look-see at that fashion accessory of hers? Does it matter?
Can anybody astrally examine that shiz and see if there are any clues if it's some sort of magical tracking device, other than in the sense that if it is powerful it might be bright and shiny on the astral plane?
I agree we should ask The Package a few further questions, and anticipating Talia's inevitable "What specific questions do you ask her?" I suggest we formulate a line of questioning. I'm too drunk for that right now, so I'll leave that for more sober minds.
Next order of business; leave no man behind. Is there anyway to mount an astral rescue for our pal stuck in the soil? If it was the jungle, we could pay a group of mercenaries to chop their way in and find our missing buddy. Is there anything analogous in the astral bizz?
Talia: We've been asking The Package questions, but is she completly passive and being acted upon or has she had questions for us, along the lines of our employers, intentions, or things of that nature? Has she expressed any goals, wishes or concerns?
Not passive, not in the slightest! but also not aggressive toward you currently. Juliana seems to understand the generalities of what is going on, and she obviously realises that she's inadvertently majorly screwed you over. You're getting the strong impression off her that it wasn't intentional, not at all; and that once she'd realised what was happening, she'd been trying to work with you.
Trouble is, you're also getting the sense that in "working with you" -- well, she's already come across as a very "take charge" person. So right now, since you're thinking about it, you might have the sense that for now she's "letting" you do your own thing.
In parallel, she hasn't asked you any questions; apart from her major goal of "Get this thing off me!"
Trouble is, you're also getting the sense that in "working with you" -- well, she's already come across as a very "take charge" person. So right now, since you're thinking about it, you might have the sense that for now she's "letting" you do your own thing.
In parallel, she hasn't asked you any questions; apart from her major goal of "Get this thing off me!"
| QUOTE |
| are wards blatantly obvious on the astral plane? Can someone percieving sense the ward is there, and from what distance? Can they sense what is within the ward? Can wards be placed on a moving vehicle, would that be more trouble than it is worth? - Shanshu Freeman |
Sometimes, sometimes, line of sight, sometimes, I'd say yes, and probably
In a bit more detail: there's some debate about just how noticeable wards are, but astrally there's definitely a chance to notice them without running into them, and it's line-of-sight based. The spell Astral Window can be used to see within wards; and Masking can allow even a dual-natured creature to penetrate a ward without disrupting it. I'd allow you to place wards on a moving vehicle. Wards take one hour per Force level.
Gah.
The 'defensive' type of wards can easily be seen with astral preception. However, you must be able to 'see' the warded area normally to notice. So, for example, a hermetic summoning something inside of a building (hermetic circles act as wards) would not be 'obvious', since you can't see through the building. Also, wards are not legally controlled, so plenty of people have then, there is nothing too special about having a warded house or building.
Next, magical tracking is a form of ritual magic, or more accurately, usually a side effect of ritual magic. However, if the target is inside a warded area (and you don't manage to blast through the wards, which is pretty hard IIRC) the ritual just fails. You have no idea where the person is, just that the magic fialed (most likely due to: death of the target or the target being in a warded area or manawarp). So keeping the package in a warded area will prevent magical tracking, if whoever is magically tracking you manages to break the wards, the creators would know about it instantly. As both our magically active guys are out right now, it dosen't help much, but nver mind.
Next worry is some sort of technological detection (radio tracking, etc). You solve this by putting the package in a Faraday cage which blocks electromagnetic radiation (cell phones, microwaves, radio, etc). This way, no tracking devices that happened to be stuck on the package will be useful. (Well, in any realistic circumstances anyway).
The 'defensive' type of wards can easily be seen with astral preception. However, you must be able to 'see' the warded area normally to notice. So, for example, a hermetic summoning something inside of a building (hermetic circles act as wards) would not be 'obvious', since you can't see through the building. Also, wards are not legally controlled, so plenty of people have then, there is nothing too special about having a warded house or building.
Next, magical tracking is a form of ritual magic, or more accurately, usually a side effect of ritual magic. However, if the target is inside a warded area (and you don't manage to blast through the wards, which is pretty hard IIRC) the ritual just fails. You have no idea where the person is, just that the magic fialed (most likely due to: death of the target or the target being in a warded area or manawarp). So keeping the package in a warded area will prevent magical tracking, if whoever is magically tracking you manages to break the wards, the creators would know about it instantly. As both our magically active guys are out right now, it dosen't help much, but nver mind.
Next worry is some sort of technological detection (radio tracking, etc). You solve this by putting the package in a Faraday cage which blocks electromagnetic radiation (cell phones, microwaves, radio, etc). This way, no tracking devices that happened to be stuck on the package will be useful. (Well, in any realistic circumstances anyway).
Re wards: what Crusher Bob said. (That will teach me to post when I've had less than four hours of sleep.)
I'm a little curious how Galina could *not* notice Juliana if she did notice Diamond--weren't they in the same van at this point, or did we retcon Ghost and Juliana into the Westwind? If the former, then there's really no point in trying to conceal her from Galina's view. She'll probably even be helpful, seeing as how no matter what we're going to do with her it's better than being chainned to a wall in solitary confinement, with a magical feedback collar attached to her throat.
If the later... maybe we can get away with concealment. I was going to say that Ghost could even set up a masking ward around the van and wait it out elsewhere; neither of them are physically injured, right? You need astral perception to do it though, and she doesn't have it. So, seeing as how our only ward-makers are unconscious and/or elsewhere for now, I propose that trusting Galina is alot less risky than trusting that noone will try to track Juliana through the collar. We can't deliver her if she's dead, and Galina's certainly showing more interest in her continued health and well-being than the guys who locked her up did.
At the worst, even troll mages must bow before the might of an attack-rigger on the warpath.
On further consideration, I do like Shanshu Freeman's idea of rerouting Juliana to a secondary safehouse, also (masking) warded, as any smart initiate would do for his house, and have Ghost and Juliana recover there, away from the very delicate Diamond. Do we have extra safehouses/lifestyles mapped out yet, for anyone? We might even mention this to Galina, that we took her somewhere else for Diamond's and the rest of the team's safety (though of course that wouldn't be the primary reason for doing so it's at least something that she will believe and accept, which is better for us.)
If the later... maybe we can get away with concealment. I was going to say that Ghost could even set up a masking ward around the van and wait it out elsewhere; neither of them are physically injured, right? You need astral perception to do it though, and she doesn't have it. So, seeing as how our only ward-makers are unconscious and/or elsewhere for now, I propose that trusting Galina is alot less risky than trusting that noone will try to track Juliana through the collar. We can't deliver her if she's dead, and Galina's certainly showing more interest in her continued health and well-being than the guys who locked her up did.
At the worst, even troll mages must bow before the might of an attack-rigger on the warpath.
On further consideration, I do like Shanshu Freeman's idea of rerouting Juliana to a secondary safehouse, also (masking) warded, as any smart initiate would do for his house, and have Ghost and Juliana recover there, away from the very delicate Diamond. Do we have extra safehouses/lifestyles mapped out yet, for anyone? We might even mention this to Galina, that we took her somewhere else for Diamond's and the rest of the team's safety (though of course that wouldn't be the primary reason for doing so it's at least something that she will believe and accept, which is better for us.)
| QUOTE |
| I'm a little curious how Galina could *not* notice Juliana if she did notice Diamond--weren't they in the same van at this point, or did we retcon Ghost and Juliana into the Westwind? |
I'd understood that Galina was waiting inside the safehouse? which would have meant you were carrying Diamond out. Did you bring her into the van instead?
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Trouble is, you're also getting the sense that in "working with you" -- well, she's already come across as a very "take charge" person. So right now, since you're thinking about it, you might have the sense that for now she's "letting" you do your own thing. |
It's good that for the time being, our interests coincide. Do we get a sense that she's steering or leaning in a certain direction beyond that? (other than her not having expressed anything directly than to have the mojo removed, which incidently makes me feel like it might be smart to drag our feet getting it off of her, after that we might not be so useful to her)
Talia, I'm going to take the liberty of saying we brought Diamond in to Galina as it probably won't affect whatever course of action we decide to do.
Eyeless Blond, thanks for the nod. Here's where we get into specifics, any secondary safehouse maybe known to the Black Hats, that's not to say once this mess is done with, they will be unusable, because when it's said and done and the package is put away we won't be targets, hopefully. That being said, the benefits of a second place is that it might be warded, which is a bonus. Other than that, we could take the war wagon and cruise Seattle, maybe in the drainage sluice thingys? (what's the name for those?) I read someone you could probably get all over seattle just cruising down there rather than on surface roads. That may or may not be useful. The war wagon is probably out fitted with electronic surveilance countermeasures, so that's something.
As for the lifestyles, I believe it is plausible that some of the team lives together and/or one/some of them probably keep another place on the side.
I'm much more worried about magical tracking or ritual murder than I am about technological tracking. If anyone has invested in a jammer then we're more or less set as far a tracking beacons go, and if not I'm certain that our electronics warfare specialist who is armed to the teeth with advanced RF and assorted other telecommunications equipment is more than up to the challenge of jamming the package senseless.
As for magical cover, unless the second safehouse materializes staying with the wards and Galina is our best bet. Ritual tracking or spellcasting takes a few hous (if I recall correctly) which means that we're safe for a little while. But if we aren't warded fairly soon, I suspect that trouble will ensue.
If the general concensus is to disturst both Juliana and Galina then moving Juliiana to a second safehouse and dumping her on Kay as quickly as possible is in order. Trogdor and a fairly impresive shamanic lodge tucked away somewhere, but his current state make it somewhat impractical to move there. He also knows a talismonger we may be able to take advantage of by swiping the cell phone from his body. No one else seems to have promising contacts or boltholes (unless Advent is willing to give up his real lifestyle).
Trusting Galina still seems like a good idea to me. We get the benefit of being able to use the well warded team safehouse and apparently compentent magical assistance to clean up the feedback loop and any health problems that arise as a result. However, Juliana should be far away from the healing spell to minimize the chance of a pulse.
As for magical cover, unless the second safehouse materializes staying with the wards and Galina is our best bet. Ritual tracking or spellcasting takes a few hous (if I recall correctly) which means that we're safe for a little while. But if we aren't warded fairly soon, I suspect that trouble will ensue.
If the general concensus is to disturst both Juliana and Galina then moving Juliiana to a second safehouse and dumping her on Kay as quickly as possible is in order. Trogdor and a fairly impresive shamanic lodge tucked away somewhere, but his current state make it somewhat impractical to move there. He also knows a talismonger we may be able to take advantage of by swiping the cell phone from his body. No one else seems to have promising contacts or boltholes (unless Advent is willing to give up his real lifestyle).
Trusting Galina still seems like a good idea to me. We get the benefit of being able to use the well warded team safehouse and apparently compentent magical assistance to clean up the feedback loop and any health problems that arise as a result. However, Juliana should be far away from the healing spell to minimize the chance of a pulse.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) | ||
I'd understood that Galina was waiting inside the safehouse? which would have meant you were carrying Diamond out. Did you bring her into the van instead? |
Ah. Right. Yes. Major palming of the face moment there.
Hm, yeah that's a good point; we never really stated out extra safehouses and the like for the team, which in retrospect was kinda dumb (and will definately corrected with the--what are we getting paid for this, again?). I kinda want to stay away from retconning in more stuff specifically for this run; we already have the Nightglider and the L2 research contact especially wormed into for this mission. So I propose trusting Galina as the lesser of two evils. We definately want to get that collar off ASAP; the possibility of ritual tracking, or even just dropping another Stun spell through the ritual link, just strengthens that position.
As for Galina not wanting to let Juliana go... well we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
At least that's my take; thoughts everyone?
Options. We need options.
Far as I can tell, we've heard from most of the key players... Any ideas, Westiex, Garland, Crusher Bob?
Far as I can tell, we've heard from most of the key players... Any ideas, Westiex, Garland, Crusher Bob?
I can't take you guys forward if you don't decide on what you're doing! (The current proposals include two completely opposed sets of actions.)
(The current proposals include two completely opposed sets of actions.)
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno @ Jul 19 2005, 10:24 PM) |
| I can't take you guys forward if you don't decide on what you're doing! (The current proposals include two completely opposed sets of actions.) |
Talia: You knew what you were planning to do with all this before we started to discuss all this amongst ourselves, right? I hope we aren't giving you any ideas, I mean
As I see it there are two primary ways of looking at this:
1. We decide to trust Galina despite any possible missgivings. This means we bring the package to the safe house openly, and enlist her "help." Back door or no, we probably wouldn't be able to hide her anyway.
Pros: Galina's expertise in healing and magic background with the collar. Wards to deter ritual tracking, etc.
Cons: If the safe house is compromised, it won't matter that we have wards to prevent ritual tracking. Galina may keep us alive, but she may have no interest in us getting paid. Call it a hunch, but I feel like Talia made it a point to keep us from finalising something that would make things happen. Some of us had the idea that we were already in the safe house and we were settling in ... but Talia let us get some of that stuff done en route, and led up to Galina casting, but she hasn't yet.
| QUOTE (Talia) |
With that, even as she starts gathering up enough spell mana that the most mundane of you start feeling those shivers running up and down your spines, she asks about Juliana. (I'm thinking it's reasonable to assume she hasn't seen her yet: you'd be trying to get Diamond to Galina asap.) Some serious healing spells being gathered, there; and this is an experienced team, you know they're going to mean some serious drain on her afterward. That's as far as I can get before you specify what you're doing with wards; although we can flesh out the conversation in the escaping van first (before arrival at safehouse). I'll also note that, since most safehouses have more than one way in/out: it would be possible for the team to get Juliana into the safehouse completely unseen by Galina if they want to. |
Let's elucidate the conversation in the van before we make a decision, btw; Eyeless Blond, and Pragma you two seem very strong in that field, what are we asking them?
The other way I look at this is; 2. We don't trust Galina, we reroute the Package to someone's bolthole which may or may not have wards placed there ahead of time, as part of SOP. Or we drive around town for a bit, or we go to a Motel 6 that is frequented by runners and may already have complimentary wards (or whatever, I don't know. ) Let us not forget, The Package may want her collar removed, but that was never a part of our contract. We were to remove her, and deliver her. Taking the collar off of her might cause us to lose the little illusion of control we have over the situation.
My first instinct is to not trust Galina, aka 2. But I want to defer to someone who has strong feelings otherwise.
cue:
| QUOTE |
| I've got a baaaaad feeling about this. |
Possible Courses of Action:
As far as I can tell:
Eyeless and myself are in favor of option one because we are of the opinion that magical tracking is our greatest threat at the moment. Concerns about this plan are that we will be unable to control the uncollared package (who has already demonstrated that she's something of a free spirit).
Shanshu is proposing that we drop our dead and find another warded bolthole to avoid getting Galina and Juliana together. This has the advantage of insulating Juliiana from a significant source of magic and keeps Galina and Juliana from teaming up. This has the disadvantage of leaving us exposed to magic for a longer period of time.
As a compromise, we could keep Juliana far from Galina (in a warded area of the compound) and claim its for quarantine or something similar. Subsequently, we can deliver he as quickly as possible. This avoids the potentially harmful contact between Galina and Juliana but also keeps us magically insulated. This plan, however, loses all its benefits if Solitaire can't keep Juliana and Galina separated.
Questions for Juliana
- What triggers the feedback effect you described?
-Why were you kidnapped?
* as a note: I assume this is just because she was prying too deeply into the affairs of the mysterious magical group, but it probably won't hurt to ask*
-Do you know anyone by the name of Kay? (that's our drop off contact's name, right?)
-What's your relationship with Galina?
-What the hell are you?
These are just some ideas of questions, I strongly recommend that we drop the last one, but if there's enough support we can ask it anyway. The second to last is also rather risky.
As far as I can tell:
Eyeless and myself are in favor of option one because we are of the opinion that magical tracking is our greatest threat at the moment. Concerns about this plan are that we will be unable to control the uncollared package (who has already demonstrated that she's something of a free spirit).
Shanshu is proposing that we drop our dead and find another warded bolthole to avoid getting Galina and Juliana together. This has the advantage of insulating Juliiana from a significant source of magic and keeps Galina and Juliana from teaming up. This has the disadvantage of leaving us exposed to magic for a longer period of time.
As a compromise, we could keep Juliana far from Galina (in a warded area of the compound) and claim its for quarantine or something similar. Subsequently, we can deliver he as quickly as possible. This avoids the potentially harmful contact between Galina and Juliana but also keeps us magically insulated. This plan, however, loses all its benefits if Solitaire can't keep Juliana and Galina separated.
Questions for Juliana
- What triggers the feedback effect you described?
-Why were you kidnapped?
* as a note: I assume this is just because she was prying too deeply into the affairs of the mysterious magical group, but it probably won't hurt to ask*
-Do you know anyone by the name of Kay? (that's our drop off contact's name, right?)
-What's your relationship with Galina?
-What the hell are you?
These are just some ideas of questions, I strongly recommend that we drop the last one, but if there's enough support we can ask it anyway. The second to last is also rather risky.
If we go with option one, should we consider complete openess with Galina, pending The Package's responses to the second to last question? I think we should go ahead and ask all the questions. It hopefully can't hurt (much) to ask.
| QUOTE (pragma) |
| Questions for Juliana -Why were you kidnapped? * as a note: I assume this is just because she was prying too deeply into the affairs of the mysterious magical group, but it probably won't hurt to ask* |
I wonder about that. If it was just that she was a reporter who was digging too deep, perhaps they would have killed her if they could? Maybe there's more than meets the eye here. Definitely a point of interest to ask her about.
Sigh, still trying to work up enough mental energy to asnwer Talia's other post
Happy birthday, little thread
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| The Johnson won't spring for equipment as such, but is willing to pay specific run-related expenses later. You can't buy on credit though. (Ah, the joys of the itemised expense account: he'll be expecting one, and he won't approve anything I consider "unreasonable" - but you get to find out what that is after the run.) |
FOOD IS NOT A RUNNING EXPENSE!!
*LMAO*
we once talked a Johnson into buying dinner at a VERY posh resort... and we had a Troll with Sythicardium and Symbiotes... Soon as the Troll herd that the Johnson was buying he whent straight for the seafood bar...
Heh... Its one of those things... to this day we still say "Food is not a running expense" and everyone will laugh.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Happy birthday, little thread |
rawr!!!!!1
The only thing I have to add is that Juliana really ought to be far away when Galina's spell goes off. Now might be the time to interrupt Galina. Make some excuse like: "we just tangled with some weird mojo, you mind if we move the van before you start shooting off spells?"
Just arrived home from a trip to the UK, so please pardon the lag ...
The only things I'm definite about is that any spell casting is kept away from Juliana, regardless of whether or not we let Galina see her.
Personally, I'm up for letting Galina see the package to see if she can work out what that necklace is. Galina already knows we have Juliana, she was brought in to help with Juliana ... so as long as there is someone in the room whose armed (We can always keep the team at alert in cast the Baddies show up) I don't see much of a problem.
I vote that we let Galina see Juliana, see if we can work out any answers to our problems, then see about moving the package to Kay.
EDIT: If Galina really wants to frag us over, she's had a couple of hours to orgainise things. Given the way things are going, we might want to ask Juliana if she's up to talking with Galina though.
The only things I'm definite about is that any spell casting is kept away from Juliana, regardless of whether or not we let Galina see her.
Personally, I'm up for letting Galina see the package to see if she can work out what that necklace is. Galina already knows we have Juliana, she was brought in to help with Juliana ... so as long as there is someone in the room whose armed (We can always keep the team at alert in cast the Baddies show up) I don't see much of a problem.
I vote that we let Galina see Juliana, see if we can work out any answers to our problems, then see about moving the package to Kay.
EDIT: If Galina really wants to frag us over, she's had a couple of hours to orgainise things. Given the way things are going, we might want to ask Juliana if she's up to talking with Galina though.
| QUOTE (Westiex) |
| Just arrived home from a trip to the UK, so please pardon the lag ... The only things I'm definite about is that any spell casting is kept away from Juliana, regardless of whether or not we let Galina see her. Personally, I'm up for letting Galina see the package to see if she can work out what that necklace is. Galina already knows we have Juliana, she was brought in to help with Juliana ... so as long as there is someone in the room whose armed (We can always keep the team at alert in cast the Baddies show up) I don't see much of a problem. I vote that we let Galina see Juliana, see if we can work out any answers to our problems, then see about moving the package to Kay. EDIT: If Galina really wants to frag us over, she's had a couple of hours to orgainise things. Given the way things are going, we might want to ask Juliana if she's up to talking with Galina though. |
Sounds like the consensus is to go with openness.
Here's what I propose in the interests of expedience: let's declare our intentions to The Package and consider her response. If her response is *very* interesting ( too positive/negative whatever,) we should reconsider (pause the action and discuss it,) if it's a generic affirmative then let's follow through with that. Let's do whatever interviewing we can think of too. Then, healing spells in the safe house, then bring The Package into Galina and the wards before ritual tracking can zero in.
All opposed say nay?
If we're in agreement, then let's turn it over to Talia.
Talia is just waiting for a confirmed course of action / agreement oh -- and that course of action should include your responses to her continuing and growing insistence on getting that collar off.
oh -- and that course of action should include your responses to her continuing and growing insistence on getting that collar off.
Well, we can always cut her head off. I'm pretty sure the collar would come off rahter easily after that 
We'd need Galina to look at the collar magically (since both of our mages are currently unavailable). Ghost's Magic Sense ability wouldn't tell us anything useful, and she is taking a nap, anyway.
After the magical examination, a technical one, to see what it's made our of, if it has any electronic components, etc.
Also, asking the package what she remembers about how the collar got stuck on. What she knows about it. Heck, what is going on in general.
Assuming we have the situation with Galina sorted out, we can resume time and let her finish casting her spell (ie see to the wounded) then start in on the interrogation.
If we are lucky, Trogdor will show up sometime soon, as I'm sure his kitten is missing him. Then we can get a second opinion on what the collar is from him, if he's in any condition to have a look at it.
We'd need Galina to look at the collar magically (since both of our mages are currently unavailable). Ghost's Magic Sense ability wouldn't tell us anything useful, and she is taking a nap, anyway.
After the magical examination, a technical one, to see what it's made our of, if it has any electronic components, etc.
Also, asking the package what she remembers about how the collar got stuck on. What she knows about it. Heck, what is going on in general.
Assuming we have the situation with Galina sorted out, we can resume time and let her finish casting her spell (ie see to the wounded) then start in on the interrogation.
If we are lucky, Trogdor will show up sometime soon, as I'm sure his kitten is missing him. Then we can get a second opinion on what the collar is from him, if he's in any condition to have a look at it.
Sounds like a plan.
The quiestions I posted above are all going to be asked if I recall correctly and giving the collar a technical once over sounds like a good idea.
Assuming Juiliana doesn't seem react suspiciously to the questions about the collar I think that assuring her that we're going to take her to magical support which can probably remove the collar is a sound idea. It will keep her calm which will, hopefully, prevent the collar from tearing us all an additional new one.
I was assuming the interrogation woud happen in the van on the way over to the safehouse and not after the spellcasting. Is this correct?
The quiestions I posted above are all going to be asked if I recall correctly and giving the collar a technical once over sounds like a good idea.
Assuming Juiliana doesn't seem react suspiciously to the questions about the collar I think that assuring her that we're going to take her to magical support which can probably remove the collar is a sound idea. It will keep her calm which will, hopefully, prevent the collar from tearing us all an additional new one.
I was assuming the interrogation woud happen in the van on the way over to the safehouse and not after the spellcasting. Is this correct?
| QUOTE (pragma) |
| I was assuming the interrogation woud happen in the van on the way over to the safehouse and not after the spellcasting. Is this correct? |
that's my understanding as well
Shadowrun by th numbers:
1 Get away from the run area
2 See to the wounded
3 Fight about the loot.
Don't skip ahead to step 3 before step 1 and 2 are done.
1 Get away from the run area
2 See to the wounded
3 Fight about the loot.
Don't skip ahead to step 3 before step 1 and 2 are done.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Jul 29 2005, 02:34 AM) |
| Shadowrun by th numbers: 1 Get away from the run area 2 See to the wounded 3 Fight about the loot. Don't skip ahead to step 3 before step 1 and 2 are done. |
we discussed (and already began, was my understanding) questioning The Package enroute to Galina, if that's what you're referring to.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| We can figure maybe that these questions were asked before you even got to the safehouse? |
I was much more refering to any attempt to get the collar off. As it doesn't appear to be immediately life threatening. Note that any in depth interrogation of the package may lead to one of those magical surges again, we really have no idea. I'd prefer to get the team medically cared for and then the package seperated before starting into anything that might be dangerous. If the collar goes off everytime the package thinks about X, y, or z, then asking the package questions about x, y, or z while we are in a moving vehicle, possibly fleeing for our lives is not the best course of action.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| I was much more refering to any attempt to get the collar off. As it doesn't appear to be immediately life threatening. Note that any in depth interrogation of the package may lead to one of those magical surges again, we really have no idea. I'd prefer to get the team medically cared for and then the package seperated before starting into anything that might be dangerous. If the collar goes off everytime the package thinks about X, y, or z, then asking the package questions about x, y, or z while we are in a moving vehicle, possibly fleeing for our lives is not the best course of action. |
ah, thanks for the clarification.
yeah, I'm not sure we should be in a hurry to get the collar off either.
Okay, there were some options on the previous page, as well as the possible courses of action listed at the top of this one. A lot of ideas have been thrown out, but I'm looking for agreement on a course of action, and I'm going to ask for specifics here. These questions might maybe help, by way of giving some structure to everything that has been thrown out:
1. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the still-moving vehicle?
2. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the safehouse?
3. (possibly related) ... Are you taking Juliana into this safehouse? This is also asking for
a) whether you are going to take Juliana into the warded area;
b) how you are going to deal with Juliana re proximity of spellcasting; and
c) the resolution of whether or not you want Juliana and Galina to come together, and what you are doing about it either way.
4. Are you going to tell Juliana your intentions for her? If so, at what point does this happen?
5. Given that it looks like most are in agreement that you're not intending to get her collar off any time soon, how are you dealing with her insistence, here?
Oh, and Trogdor's kitten is lying curled up on his body. Don't expect him out of this any time soon, for all the reasons stated previously
1. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the still-moving vehicle?
2. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the safehouse?
3. (possibly related) ... Are you taking Juliana into this safehouse? This is also asking for
a) whether you are going to take Juliana into the warded area;
b) how you are going to deal with Juliana re proximity of spellcasting; and
c) the resolution of whether or not you want Juliana and Galina to come together, and what you are doing about it either way.
4. Are you going to tell Juliana your intentions for her? If so, at what point does this happen?
5. Given that it looks like most are in agreement that you're not intending to get her collar off any time soon, how are you dealing with her insistence, here?
Oh, and Trogdor's kitten is lying curled up on his body. Don't expect him out of this any time soon, for all the reasons stated previously
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Okay, there were some options on the previous page, as well as the possible courses of action listed at the top of this one. A lot of ideas have been thrown out, but I'm looking for agreement on a course of action, and I'm going to ask for specifics here. These questions might maybe help, by way of giving some structure to everything that has been thrown out: 1. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the still-moving vehicle? 2. Which (if any) questions are you asking Juliana in the safehouse? 3. (possibly related) ... Are you taking Juliana into this safehouse? This is also asking for a) whether you are going to take Juliana into the warded area; b) how you are going to deal with Juliana re proximity of spellcasting; and c) the resolution of whether or not you want Juliana and Galina to come together, and what you are doing about it either way. 4. Are you going to tell Juliana your intentions for her? If so, at what point does this happen? 5. Given that it looks like most are in agreement that you're not intending to get her collar off any time soon, how are you dealing with her insistence, here? Oh, and Trogdor's kitten is lying curled up on his body. Don't expect him out of this any time soon, for all the reasons stated previously |
3. Let's keep the van with The Package circling the neighborhood while the healing is cast. While doing so, let's feel J out about whether she's interested in seeing Galina.
Provided it goes well, we take J into the wards.
4. If she hasn't asked yet, let's not volunteer it. We're doing the "Pro" Shadowrunner post run regroup shtick and she seems to be going along with it. When she asks, I'd respond with something like "You're safer with us until we get everything sorted out." etc.
5. We can examine it and go through the motions of researching it, but let's voice concerns about the risk of tampering with it until we know everything we can about it. Stall, stall, stall.
as for 1. and 2. what does everyone else think? Sounds like Crusher Bob advises caution and discretion, you make a good point about questioning being possibly risky. Do you think there are topics and questions that are safer than others to talk about? What do you think Eyeless Blond? Pragma?
Asking for specifics = death
I guess we're lucky you are Church of England...
The questions asked in the moving van should be limited to things of immediate import:
Are your hit, bleedng, etc?
Are you aware of any immediate threats to your health?
Are you aware of any specific responses your rescue might bring about?
Is there anything we should be aware of when obtaining medical treatment for you?
Are you aware of any tracking devices, magical or mundane, that might be attached to you?
Do your captors have a ritual sample from you?
Questions for once we have been locked down:
What circumstances led to your capture?
Do you blame any specific persons for your capture?
Who were your captors, and what do you know of their intentions toward you?
Depending on her answers then stating straight out:
As per the terms of our contract, we are to bring you to (insert name here) who will meet us at your apartment at (address). We intend to do this (tomorrow morning). Do you have any objections to this course of action?
Depending on her answers to the questions in the Van, we bring her straight in to Galina. Otherwise, more debate on that one.
The questions asked in the moving van should be limited to things of immediate import:
Are your hit, bleedng, etc?
Are you aware of any immediate threats to your health?
Are you aware of any specific responses your rescue might bring about?
Is there anything we should be aware of when obtaining medical treatment for you?
Are you aware of any tracking devices, magical or mundane, that might be attached to you?
Do your captors have a ritual sample from you?
Questions for once we have been locked down:
What circumstances led to your capture?
Do you blame any specific persons for your capture?
Who were your captors, and what do you know of their intentions toward you?
Depending on her answers then stating straight out:
As per the terms of our contract, we are to bring you to (insert name here) who will meet us at your apartment at (address). We intend to do this (tomorrow morning). Do you have any objections to this course of action?
Depending on her answers to the questions in the Van, we bring her straight in to Galina. Otherwise, more debate on that one.
Sounds to me like Crusher Bob has a good plan. Let's go with that.
I'll just wait for Shanshu to confirm, then answer. (Garland? Westiex? pragma? anyone else who wants to weigh in?)
(Eyeless Blond hasn't been around in a few weeks; so I won't wait up on that confirmation until Blondie's around regularly again.)
(Eyeless Blond hasn't been around in a few weeks; so I won't wait up on that confirmation until Blondie's around regularly again.)
I'm on board as long as we wait (as you seem to suggest) for more feedback from Talia *before* we decide to declare our intent to the package, she's smart she has to have figured out we didn't remove her out of the kindness of our hearts. No reason to draw attention to it.
( Although, if she were willing to offer us more money and protection from our current boss, I'd be willing to discuss working for her.)
( Although, if she were willing to offer us more money and protection from our current boss, I'd be willing to discuss working for her.)
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