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Synner
Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
Actually that was misleading on my side, I've corrected it now. I meant to say certain types of reactive IC (especifically referring to Scout not Probe).

Only deckers and proactive IC can actually use Combat Maneuvers according to the rules in SR3 page 225; Scout starts out as Reactive but switches to Proactive as soon it is targeted for Cybercombat.

Apologies for the confusion I was mixing up the two IC that are currently active on the Host.
BigKnockers
Well seeing as this thread has demystified decking, inspired me to buy matrix and give me the courage to give it a go. I'll let you off.

Just this once wink.gif
Kurukami
There we go, Synner. Sorry to take so long on the reply -- I just got hired to a new full-time position this week, and so I haven't been able to check in as often. I've updated my post with the Position attack description and game effects. I got three successes, and my Evasion is 6 -- will the Host be able to beat me out on my Position Attack before Cheng makes her attack?

Man, I definitely got to get my SR3 rulebook spine-sliced and spiral-bound. The bloody binding is starting to give way in a number of places... including the Matrix rules, since I have the book propped open so often.
Synner
Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
Kurukami - Your lucky streak remains and Cheng beat the odds. The GM could fairly easily role two 6's on his Resistance Roll and knocked the Damage down to Serious which would leave you in a fight with a Seriously wounded Scout with no Attack program loaded. However, luck and the spirits favor the bold and the Host only landed one success against Cheng's One-Shot Attack.

Cheng's luck keeps up and the IC swarm reels under the hail of code shot, attempts to retain cohesion, then crumbles and derezzes on the YCAP's hospital ward-floor (one success on the Icon Damage Resistance Roll means the IC took a Deadly wound). Spent Cheng's blunderbuss Utility also erodes away in a cloud of tinted smoke and vanishes (since it is a One-Shot and must be reloaded with a Swap Memory operation). Crouching over the crashed IC code Cheng gestures a pictogram over it with her free hand, locking the code into a programming loop and stopping alerts from leaking to the Host operating system.

Satisfied Cheng's stands up and decides her next move. Movement continues and figures dart about behind the double YCAP hospital doors leading to the inner Host subsystems, but here in the hallway she has a moment's respite...

Over to you...
Kurukami
Cheng lifts her hand in an index-finger extended, thumb-backward motion and blows phantom smoke away from the imaginary "barrel". then glances around the immediate code-environment to see if another IC-guard manifests to ambush her. Lacking immediate opposition, and with the realization that most of her obstacles to date have been IC rather than corporate deckers, she falls out of the heightened awareness of cybercombat and decides to drop her Blinder-Erosion utility from her Active memory. In this situation, she reasons, it'd be best to reload with multi-purpose viral Attack programs. A wisp of smoke floats from a pocket of her greatcoat as she releases the Blinder's memory sectors, and as she gestures at the smoke it swoops back down into the areas concealed by her apparel.

[ Game aside, question: Synner, Swap Memory indicates in the SR3 rulebook that it (bold emphasis mine) "enables a decker to load a new utility program into his deck's active memory and then upload it to his on-line icon". Should that be taken to mean that you must perform a Swap Memory operation for each utility you wish to upload?

I assume, for the moment, that such is not the case. Since Cheng used her one-shot Attack program, that brings her active memory load from 1341 Mp down to 1296 Mp. She then uses a Free Action to drop Blinder/Erosion-6 (192 Mp) from her deck's active memory, then Swaps Memory to upload Attack-6S (a gleaming Chinese longsword with faint runes etched into its blade) (144 Mp) and two copies of Attack-6D (the wheel-lock pistol) (45 Mp apiece).

1296 - 192 = 1104 Mp (space in use after dropping out the Erosion)
1104 + 144 + 45 + 45 = 1338 Mp (space in use after uploading multiple Attack programs)

I would prioritize the first copy of the Attack-6D to load first. Since I'm uploading 234 Mp of data to my online icon, and my I/O is 360, the entire operation should be finished in about 2 seconds. The 45 Mp upload of the Attack utility should be finished in about 3/8 of a second (figure by the end of this full Action). ]


Logically, with a Security Tally of 10, the Scout-IC shouldn't be the only thing that became active in the System. As soon as the Attack programs finish uploading -- and the weight of the rapier and an additional two pistols on her belt is a comforting sensation -- she manipulates her Analyze program to locate and identify any other IC which is lying in wait within the Host's system. A ring of miniscule smoky runes floats out from her, searching the immediate system for traces of Intrusion Countermeasures.

[ Cheng has decided, since she knows the Security Tally is at 10 right now based on her earlier Analyze Security operation, to attempt a Locate IC operation. On an Orange-Hard host, it is unlikely that only one piece of IC would pop up in response to that amount of system warning flags. So, knowing that she needs to lose any hangers-on before attempting to provide Matrix overwatch, she'll delegate two dice from her Hacking Pool (and, since she's suppressing the IC she just killed, she only has seven now available to her) to add to the seven Decking dice she'd normally roll.

Locate IC is an Index test using the Analyze utility, so my DF boosts as I roll: 15, 8, 5, 5, 4, 1, 1, 1, 1. An unusual result, which will probably grant Cheng between two and four successes. I can only hope that (as the player knows) the 10 dice granted by the Probe IC added to the 10 dice the Host normally rolls isn't enough to counteract my smokin' mojo... vegm.gif ]


You're up, Synner.
hobgoblin
im not sure if synner will agree with me on this but i personaly read the swap memory to say that you need to do one pr software you want to load...

oh and nice work on the icon images smile.gif and the fact that software cna have a virtual weight had not dawned on me before your text talked about it, nice idea smile.gif

as for what gets triggerd on level 10, who knows, didnt you move on from the chokepoint?
Kurukami
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the "one program" thing or not, which is why I brought it up. Since I've dropped out of combat, and nothing is trying to bite Cheng's head off right now, I'd probably just take as much time as was necessary to properly load up the programs.

And yup, I'm past the chokepoint... but as Synner pointed out earlier, since the Host I'm currently on was located within the chokepoint's PLTG, any Security Tally that I gained on the chokepoint automatically transferred over into the Host. I gained, I think, 7 points there, and another three here when I did my Analyze Security operation, bringing me up to 10.

With each particular Security Level of Host (Blue, Green, Orange, or Red), the Security sheafs trigger on particular numeric Security Tallies. The details on this are mentioned on p. 211 of SR3. But basically, Orange has triggers between every 3 and 5 points of Security Tally. Since I'm at 10, I've almost certainly gone past two triggers, and the next one may be just one point of Security Tally higher.
Kurukami
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
oh and nice work on the icon images smile.gif and the fact that software cna have a virtual weight had not dawned on me before your text talked about it, nice idea smile.gif

Thanks! One must remember that there are many senses that might offer clues or insight or something of the sort -- sight and sound, obviously, but also smell, temperature, humidity, and pressure. Taste, I would imagine, probably isn't as important in the Matrix, though... cool.gif
hobgoblin
except the taste of blood vegm.gif
Synner

Kurukami - I for one agree with hobgoblin, I've always interpreted Swap Memory as applying to one utility at a time. Just as I assume each Download Data applies to one file at a time. However, as you said, there doesn't appear to be any immediate danger and there are no Tests involved in Swap Memory operations.

Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
Regarding your tactical analysis of the situation I think it is something every decker does, especially when he has a general idea of how deep in drek he already is. I think it is plausible, and not metagaming, that Cheng check out hidden dangers on a system of this level, especially if she's intending to stay.

So back to the action...

While Cheng launches her Analyze Utility to help in the Locate IC Test, the Host system rolls only one success to Oppose her results (and to add to her Tally) - she's very lucky since one success on 20 dice is way below average. She nets 3 successes although only one is needed to achieve a result with Locate IC (per the rules in SR3 page 217).

The smoke ring curls in a non-existant breeze, drifting swiftly towards a corner of the SAN room's ceiling. The ring settles in space and the minute runes shine as if lit from within, while inside the smoky ring a floating camera Icon appears. IC... and by the looks of it something reactive.

Next move...
Kurukami
That Icicle is most likely ( discounting player knowledge ork.gif ) to be Probe or Scout. Reactive IC other than those is rare -- Probe and Scout are the obvious ones, intended to trip up and focus on an intruding decker, but others include Scramble (which doesn't go after you), Tar Pit/Baby (either of which in this case are unlikely, since I've used Offensive and Operational Utilities -- the most logical targets for Tar -- and it hasn't taken a swipe at either), and Data Bombs (for protecting files/remote slave-device icons only).

So, Cheng is going to enter cybercombat, with the intention of readying her rune-carved longsword, and then tries to perform a hopefully unconventional move -- she'll sprint towards the wall, readying another ever-useful smoke capsule. As she leaps into the air below the camera's icon, she flicks the Cloak-capsule at the wall to distract the target as she Positions her Attack. Next, she'll shift her internal perception in midair so that the wall becomes down, rolls out along the wall's surface as though it were a floor, and neatly skewers the countermeasures icon with the razored tip of her blade.

... all the while, keeping codestrings ready in the front of her mind to prevent the soon-to-be-fragged IC from upping her Security Tally.

That attempted, she'll allow the momentary bending of the rules of this Host's "reality" to fade, and drop neatly into a three-point landing at the base of the wall.

[ Game aside: Cheng's leaping into cybercombat to junk the spying IC quickly, so that she can get in control of the electronic security measures present at the site and pass the word to her teammates that the way is clear. She rolls her initiative -- wow, 6, 6, 5, and 5, therefore adding 22 to her base Reaction of 14 for a final Initiative of 36 eek.gif -- and, assuming the IC doesn't beat her on Initiative, Positions for Attack and launches a strike with her longsword (Attack-6S).

For the Position Attack, she rolls her six Evasion dice against the already-known TN of 5, adding in two dice from her Hacking Pool. The dice come up 21, 10, 7, 4, 4, 3, 1, 1 -- a base three successes that the Host has to contest. Without knowing the final net successes (Synner, as the Host, has to roll his 10 dice against my Evasion's TN of 6), I'll presumptively put those successes into increasing the Power of my attack.

For my Attack program, I receive six dice for the utility itself and I'll throw in another two dice from my Hacking Pool. Since Hacking Pool refreshes as soon as one enters cybercombat, the use of these dice will narrow my Pool down to three -- one die is already in use suppressing the previously-destroyed Scout IC. Naturally, I want to keep another prepared to suppress this IC as well if I destroy it... and, well, it's tres unwise to blow all of your Hacking Pool on your first Initiative Pass without knowing what might occur. ork.gif

I roll my eight dice and get 10, 7, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2 -- enough for four successes against a TN of 5. That'll boost the base damage for the Attack to Deadly, and the Power for it will be 6 (the utility's rating) plus however many net successes I received for my Position Attack. ]


En garde, Synner...
hobgoblin
hmm, tar ice have a bad habbit of being tagged to some other ice for defensive use most of the time...

allso, remember that inside a pltg there can be any number of hosts and i have a feel cheng have been going from host to host lately (unless the metaphor have been messing with my head) so while there have not been any tar signs lately one may run into them now that one is at a new host...

(bah, cold fingers, fast typing and bad keyboard makes for messy writing. add to that the fact that it seems one hand writes faster then the other and you realy get messed up text)
Kurukami
Oh, I know that. But I've engaged in a number of operations here at THIS host -- the one that I hoped to infiltrate -- using both Offensive and Operational utilities, and as yet, no Tar IC has jumped out at me.
hobgoblin
ah ok, but it couldstill be that they failed the test (if they have a test, dont recall and to lazy to look it up) or that they are higher up in the chain...
Kurukami
For those who aren't familiar with the way Tar Baby and Tar Pit function, the details are on SR3, p. 228-229:
QUOTE
Each tar baby is pre-programmed to target a specific type of utility (operational, defensive, offensive, special), determined by the GM.  Tar baby IC does not attack completely passive utilities such as armor and sleaze programs.

Whenever a decker uses one of the trigger utilities, the gamemaster makes an Opposed Test between the two programs' ratings.  Make the Tar Baby test against a TN equal to the utility program's rating.  Make the Utility Test against a TN equal to the tar baby IC's Rating.

If the tar baby wins the Opposed Test, it crashes both itself and the utility program.  Tar baby IC does not incrase the decker's Security Tally when it crashes this way.  The decker has to load a fresh copy of the utility program with a Swap Memory operation.

Tar Pit operates in exactly the same manner, except that it takes not only the copy in Active memory but all copies in Storage memory as well. Thus, the decker who loses her utility to Tar Pit can't reload it for the remainder of that run, and has to re-load it into her deck from an outside source!

On a Host like this, where the IC can go up to rating 10, an opposed Test against almost any fairly quick-loading utility can mean imminent peril... particularly if it's an IC construct that has other nasty bytes jumping on you at the same time.
Synner
Somebody's been seeing way too much Matrix lately I'll wager.

Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
Back to the Host...

Boosted by her Response Increase firmware, Cheng's speed widely outclasses the IC. Springing into nanosec action, her Maneuver places her on virtual highground as she brings the longsword down through camera ICon.

Despite the higher target number (Cheng's target number is actually the Security Value of 10 - 5 (Cloak Utility)= 5 per the rules in SR3 page 224), Cheng beat out the Host on the Position Attack maneuver roll by three success. Pumping that success into the power Cheng strikes. The attack roll with a target number of 5 - the default target to hit a Legitimate Icon on an Orange Host (according to the very useful reference table in SR3 page 224) give Cheng 4 successes rising the 6S Attack Damage to 9D (thanks to the Position Attack above).
The Host then rolls the Damage Resistance Test for the IC, rolling the Security Value (10) to reduce the 9D damage. In this case the Host rolls 2 successes enough to stage the Damage back down to a Serious.


The IC crackles and bleeds novawhite sparks from where the longsword disrupted the graphic code but does nothing else. Since there is no apparent response or change effected, Cheng realizes she is facing simple Probe and slashes again twice with longsword.

She racks up another 4 successes on both attacks with a target number 5. The enemy Icon derezzes in a cascade of white light.

Note - Since Probe doesn't counterattack, because it is pure Reactive IC (unlike Scout), I took the liberty of having Cheng take it down. Normally the best attack solution against Probe specifically on a high-rating Host is to use the Simple Actions to attack twice, since it's always possible for the IC to stage a Deadly Attack down a level but is unlikely to do so with two hits. If you're on a lower rating Host Kurukami's Position Attack maneuver is a pretty good option since it increases the power of the Attack if you can rack up enough successes. The risk with the double strike is simply that the Reactive IC might be trapped with some form of Tar.

Cheng weaves a net of code with her free hand, catches and wraps up the disrupted IC silencing its alarm call with some effective on the fly programming (not to mention one more point from her Hacking Pool).

Your move Kurukami...
Kurukami
There's a quick point I should make, that I thought I raised before. All combat maneuvers do have a TN of the Security Value, that's accurate. But that TN is lessened by your Cloak utility. Since my Cloak utility is rating 5, that makes my effective TN for combat maneuver (10 - 5), or 5.

Now, the TN to hit an opposing icon with an Offensive program... that's based on the Color of the Host and whether or not the target icon has a valid or invalid passcode to be there.
Synner
Apologies I missed the Cloak reference in your post. I have ammended the post above.
hobgoblin
hmm, better kick this thread back into orbit i think...
Synner
Sorry, I've been waiting for Kurukami's next move after I ammended the text above. The end result is the same so now he has to decide what next.
Kurukami
Sorry I've been taking so long with my reply... things have been muy busy this week at work, and so I'm getting home quite tired. I'll put in my next moves tomorrow... gotta get some sleep right now.
Kurukami
Now that potential obstacles have been disabled, the system is at Cheng's fingertips (as long as she doesn't trip too many more flags during the infiltration).

[ I reach out and take hold of my newly-spiral-bound rulebooks, no longer falling apart at the spine... ork.gif ]

To be of use to her compatriots, Cheng first needs to locate the particular slave controls which will allow the team to enter the facility undetected. For safety's sake, she decides, it would also be wise to keep a digital extremity on the security communication lines.

So, initially -- Cheng retrieves the rice-paper scroll that her Browse utility manifests as and attempts to Locate a File which lists the facility's security commcodes. Logically, there should be a file which serves as some sort of Matrix rolodex which tracks all potential extensions within this facility (and potentially a wider spread of commcodes for Yamatetsu). But she doesn't want the full directory at this time -- just the commcodes which correspond with security stations within this facility.

After all, assuming the run goes well, she can snark a copy of the whole commcode file on the way out. For the moment, just an abbreviated, dynamically-generated sublisting of the whole file will find a cozy spot in the storage memory on her deck...

... just as soon as Cheng, paranoid as always, throws a quick Analyze Icon at the file she's located to make certain the tasty data-fruit doesn't have any worms or other nasties hidden within it. A quick pass with the smoldering incense-brand should be enough to determine that one way or the other. Then, from yet another inner pocket, she extracts a corked glass bottle containing a swirling, translucent reddish gas. Standing over the file, she carefully uncorks the container and pours a small measure of the gaseous substance out above the file's icon. The reddish cloud slowly settles towards the icon as dry ice or mist might, morphing into the alphanumerics and more arcane characters contained within the file. Then, with a gentle puff of breath, Cheng causes the cloud-characters to lift free of the file's icon and spiral back to the breast pocket of her greatcoat, and then replaces her glass bottle. The Download Data operation, then, should be complete.

[ By this point, as cybercombat has ended, Cheng presumably has her mostly-full Hacking Pool back. Remember, it's only six dice right now because two of her Hacking Pool dice are tied up keeping IC remnants in infinite non-report loops.

Thus, I will roll my seven Decking dice, along with a Hacking Pool die to sweeten my luck, against the Index System for my attempted Locate File operation. From past posts, and a little bit of number counting, I know that my TN with my Browse utility against that subsystem should be 5 or so. Tough, but hopefully not impossible with 8 dice to throw at. I roll 9, 5, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 1, which should be enough to garner Cheng two successes and locate a file which corresponds to her desires. My Browse utility, like my Analyze, has Sneak-2, upping my DF by 2 while I'm performing any operations with it.

Having presumably located the file in question, my next step is to Analyze the Icon as a Free Action. It's a Control test, which means that Cheng gets that extra die for being a Cracker. I roll my eight dice for Decking, plus one from Hacking Pool, and get -- egads -- 4, 4, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1.

Normally, this would spell failure. However, when you run an Analyze Icon, not only do you get to subtract your Analyze utility's rating from the base Control TN, you get to lessen it by your Sensor rating as well. Those two elements combine to lower my TN by 11 -- which means that the 4's I rolled will still be successes. And, of course, my sneaky Analyze gives me that boost to my DF.

Assuming that there's no nasties lurking in the telecomm number file, Cheng next wants to Download Data to store the file on her cyberdeck. For that, she uses her Read/Write utility. It's rating 6, but not sneaky like some of the other programs I've got running. This is a Files operation, so I don't get an extra die as I do with Control ops. I roll eight dice -- my seven for Decking, plus the habitual one from my Hacking Pool for good fortune. A slightly better result than last time: 9, 7, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1. That should get me two successes -- not bad, but not terrific either. I may have to try to snag said data again if the system doesn't like my forged access codes.

A quick question, Synner -- what are the physical defenses of this facility that might have been brought to the team's attention by the Johnson? Electrified/monitored fence? Cameras? Pressure sensors? Specific target we're trying to retrieve? ]


Next, Cheng wants to use the data garnered from that search to track down the slave-telecomms which correspond to security stations. To Locate a Slave within the Host requires Analyze, so she uses the data garnered from her file-browsing to paint a smoking query for the telecomms matching the central commcode file with the multi-purpose incense stick.

[ Like Locate File, the Locate Slave operation is an Index test. Cheng's TN should be somewhere around 5 or 6. She adds two Hacking Pool dice to the test. I roll, and get: 9, 9, 8, 5, 5, 5, 3, 2, 1. Presumably, the 6 successes I think I got should be more than enough to locate all the telecomms in question. ]

Next comes the security cameras, and any maglocks along the path Cheng's team had planned out for their infiltration. Those'll require an additional two Locate Slave operations, but having breezed to the location of the security comms Cheng is confident of her success.

[ For the first Locate Slave to find the security cameras which would track my teammates entry, I roll my Decking dice and two Hacking Pool dice and get 16, 9, 9, 8, 4, 2, 2, 2, 1.

For the second Locate Slave, to identify the maglocks that would block passage along that line of attack, I use my last Hacking Pool die of this "Turn" and roll -- wow, my luck is bizarre tonight -- 9, 8, 5, 5, 5, 2, 1, 1. ]


Set up the countermeasures, Synner, I feel like preemptively breakin' some ice for my celebratory drink... ork.gif

> An ebony Balrog [ SENSOR QUERY? identity=Yamatetsu BlackFlamingDeath r10.02 ] is present.

Oh shi&@#*^@%--

Kurukami has been disconnected.
Nephyte
QUOTE (Kurukami @ Oct 11 2003, 02:35 AM)


Set up the countermeasures, Synner, I feel like preemptively breakin' some ice for my celebratory drink... ork.gif

> An ebony Balrog [ SENSOR QUERY? identity=Yamatetsu BlackFlamingDeath r10.02 ] is present.

Oh shi&@#*^@%--

Kurukami has been disconnected.




Ummm, where'd the Black Ice come from?

This run over?
hobgoblin
probably just a joke smile.gif
Kurukami
Yup, just a small joke about me getting overconfident. I'm just waiting for Synner to drop an IC-berg on my head...
hobgoblin
do the titanic baby silly.gif
Kurukami
Cheng shouts "I'm the king of the wor--", pauses, pats down her ample hourglass figure, and reconsiders her entire statement. ork.gif
Synner
Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
The Johnson briefed the team on the existance of several perimeter security measures including electrified fence (3m high, monowire topped), one guard-manned (three men sec-guard teams, 5 hour shifts) gate, concealed pressure pads on the greens leading up to the mainbuilding and sofisticated maglocks on all external doors (at least rating 6) - all measures are supposed to be non-lethal which fits with Yamatetsu's known capture and interrogate policy. Mr.J was unaware if security systems are centrally controlled or not and no data was forthcoming on internal security, except that the facility is not supposed to be rigger-equipped.

Back to the run...

Note - While not strictly necessary Cheng's Locate File operation for the commcode registry is a nice piece of colour and can provide additional paydata as well as a quick reference if she needs shortcuts later. However Locate operations only provide a location for something, in this case the rolodex File. They effectively tell you where it is not what is in it. For that you need to a Read/Write on the File after you've Located it.

The Host fails its Opposed roll miserably without getting a single success (Cheng has 2 net successes). The characters on the Browse scroll shift wildly as the information is drawn from the Host and directions to the file appear as an e-ddress with a small animated compass underneath indicating the virtual "route" to the file.

Before proceeding, Kurukami may need to adjust his post... but as I've said above the commcode is not strictly necessary for the second Locate (the one on the Slave). It should always be possible to Locate any hardware wired into the Host(unless it's Scrambled) much like it's possible to locate any hardware linked to your PC by tracing through the OS firmware's equivalent of a "Device Manager".
Kurukami
OK, my previous post is updated to reflect Cheng running an Analyze Icon on the telecomm file to make sure there's no nastiness in it., and the Download Data to store a copy of the security telecomm (rather than the whole) file in her storage memory. I figure my I/O speed of 360 should blow through such an abbreviated list in a very short while...
hobgoblin
grr, get back to the first page you stupid thread...
Synner
Matrix Overwatch Walkthrough
Apologies, this week I've been recovering from a bout of flu and some deadlines and its been impossible to get my head together enough to give this thread its due attention.

Back to the ongoing operation in the Yamatetsu lab system...

Having completed her Locate File Cheng runs an Analyze Icon on the file she located with her Browse Utility and rolls 4 successes (the Host fails to roll any successes in the Opposed Roll) which reveals that the Commcode directory contains Scramble but nothing worse.

While the words of the file continuously rearrange themselves on the scroll icon of her Browse Utility, Cheng must decide whether to do a Locate Slave or decode the directory and then do the search.
hobgoblin
gvien that the person is going for the securityim starting to wonder what the hell she (i belive that was the right sex) is doing going tru the files as she is building up security point here. personaly i would just fire off a locate slave and get to work...
Synner
I understand Kurukami's reasoning although in this particular case I don't think it applies. It would be the sort of stunt I would pull if I were on a PLTG looking for a specific host rather than a subsystem on a particular Host. If I had a commcode listing to go by I could track the e-ddress I much easier, however here Cheng seems more or less sure that the various slaves are on a subsystem of this Host so...

At the very least it'll provide some minimal paydata and it does go to show that with a high enough DF a decker can take a few risks. Personally I'd go straight to the security stuff because of the acumulated Security Tally is getting pretty high.
mfb
question about the Null Operation system op. what happens if neither the decker nor the system scores any successes? i mean, it's not like you can fail the grueling task of not doing anything. what, is the decker somehow forced to take an action?
Synner
QUOTE
fail the grueling task of not doing anything

This is not what a Null Operation does. What it does do is convince the Host system to disregard your presence while you do nothing (for a while), which is something completely different. If you fail you fail and you're back where you started. If you succeed you have a little time to plan, wait or just take a breather while the system ignores your existance (as long as you do nothing).
mfb
right, but what happens if you fail the test? last night, my otaku scored no successes, but the system scored no successes either--what happens?
hobgoblin
nothing, you where just lucky thats all...

a null op isnt a decker initiated operation as mutch as its a test to see if the host spots you while you maintian or wait for something.

if the host scores no successes, fine but if it had then those would be added to your tally unless you could counter them with your successes. its a success contest, not a normal operation...
mfb
yeah, that's what i thought, but i wasn't really sure. just to be safe, i rolled it again and passed the next turn. *shrug*
Gorath
So the successes from the decker represent her ability to blend into the data traffic to stay unnoticed.
Synner
In a nutshell yes.
Synner
Kurukami?
michaelius
i have a question that has been dogging me since the first run/walkthrough. and i don't mean to sound ungrateful, i guess i should start by saying how AWESOME this topic is.

Synner has been talking about Probe IC in terms of it raising a system's Security Rating for future tests. However on pg 228 in the SR3, it says:

QUOTE
For a probe-equipped system, the {GM} makes a Probe Test using it's probe IC Rating against a decker's {DF} every time the decker makes a System Test.  Add any successses from the Probe Test to the Decker's security tally


this seems much more deadly than just increasing the Security Rating. while increasing the rating makes the system more powerful, increasing the security tally launches more IC at the decker. am i just reading all of Synner's posts wrong, or what?
michaelius
Also, I just found this on the errata page (I can't believe it, but i'm actually putting all the errata in my home copy...do normal people do this?)

QUOTE

The icon that has been hit rolls a Damage Resistance Test, using its Bod Rating against a target number equal to the Power of the damage. For IC programs that take damage, make a Damage Resistance Test using the host's Security Value. The armor utility reduces the Power for the test.

Compare the attacker and defender's successes. If the attacker achieved more successes, for every 2 net successes stage the Damage Level of the attack up by 1 level. If the defender achieved more, stage down the Damage Level by 1 level for every 2 net successes.

Cassie is attacked by a Killer-6 program on an Orange host, so she faces 6S damage. The IC achieves 3 successes on its Attack Test. Cassie is running an Armor-4 utility, which reduces the Power of the attack to 2. Cassie makes a Bod (2) Test and achieves 4 successes. She achieved only 1 net success, so the damage is not staged down, and her persona takes Serious damage.


this irons out the whole "staging up/down" debate in this thread regarding matrix combat. this was updated in the 11th printing (you can see your printing on pg. 5)
hobgoblin
for the first question, your probably reading synners post wrong as prove have allways added to the tally, its liek a watchdog that barks...

as for the second one, i dont recalla problem with stageing but what number of dice to roll, computer skill or the attack utilitys rating...
Synner
QUOTE (michaelius @ Oct 26 2003, 09:49 PM)
Am i just reading all of Synner's posts wrong, or what?

Probe - You're reading my posts wrong. Probe IC in a Host does exactly what you describe, rolling it's own Rating everytime the illegitimate Decker makes a System Operation, successes add to the Decker's Security Tally. I've made this clear by quoting the reference to the same page you have at least a couple of times. That being said I often roll the Probe dice right after I roll the Host's Opposed Roll to any System Operations and simply add the total to the Security Tally in the interest of speediness.

Damage- Actually hobgoblin, he does have a point. We've previously discussed if the Damage of an Attack program, or IC, is capped at Deadly (no matter how many successes you have the max Damage you could do with one attack was Deadly) and this was resolved before the Resistance Roll was made (which made sense reading the rules in SR3). With the modified example in the errata it now seems that all the Attacker's successes factor in and the Resistance Roll has to reduce the successes before starting to Stage down the Damage. All of which means Matrix combat just got a hell of a lot deadlier.
hobgoblin
isnt that how normal combat damage works (as in being shot, it seems melee damage works a diffrent way)?

Synner
Yes and no. The problem in Cybercombat was that SR3 wasn't clear about how to handle excess successes in the Attack since you immediately jumped to the Resistance roll which only mentioned Staging down the Attack's final damage (which explains this Errata).

While this does bring it in line with normal ranged combat to some extent it makes Matrix combat far more deadly (1st strike will win 90% of the time), since there is no actual Dodge in Cybercombat (even the advanced rules from Matrix provide only a limited answer to this lack).
hobgoblin
nice, that just points out that cybercombat is bad unless you feel like have a rampant tallyand is damn fast...
Kurukami
Hey all... sorry to have been AWOL for so long. I'll post responses tonight. My job's been breathing down my neck big time with the approach of the end of the fiscal year. So, tonight -- helping the infiltration team slip undetected into the Yamatetsu facility!
michaelius
Yeah, my bad. sorry about that. i was reading the post wrong...
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