Datasteal Walkthrough
Note that at this point whatever the guard IC is it has been triggered and it is already in effect. In this particular case it is Scout IC (as shown on the Host thread). Scout is described in Matrix (page 104) as proactive version of Probe. What this means is that it does the same as Probe and also fights. Why am I telling you this information before you roll the Analyze IC operation? Because it's important to understand that since it has already been triggered it already adds its rating to the Host's Security Rating roll for the Analyze IC test (even though it doesn't initiate an attack), so that while you are Analyzing it you're also increasing your Security Tally. Nasty isn't it?
Additionally Scout has another quirk that is important. As described in Matrix (page 104), it doesn't actually damage you when it wins an cybercombat attack. Instead the Host 'saves' those successes for the next piece of IC that attacks the decker (even if the Scout has since been dstroyed and suppressed)!
Your roll please.
Note - Once again the charts at the back of Matrix are invaluable. The IC effects chart on page 166 is the perfect fast reference for the GM.
Full Version: The Idiot's Guide To The Matrix Thread
OK, this Scout IC is obviously a real pain and needs to be dealt with quickly....
What was a little old man with a limp suddenly transforms into an agile young man as he implements a Position Attack Maneuver. The walking stick also transforms into an elegant walking cane as the new look icon presses the 'Defrost' button to initiate his Attack (6D) utility...
What was a little old man with a limp suddenly transforms into an agile young man as he implements a Position Attack Maneuver. The walking stick also transforms into an elegant walking cane as the new look icon presses the 'Defrost' button to initiate his Attack (6D) utility...
i sugest the guy does a evade combat move and go for the file, then get the hell out of dodge before that doggy can get a sniff on your location! hmm, probe, scout and trace, nasty!
My apologies to Synner.... having just re-read this thread I have realised that I am doing the classic player thing of excitedly describing my actions but leaving all the calculations to the GM....
My matrix Reaction is: 6 (INT) + 2 (Pure DNI) + 4 (Response Increase 2) = 12
My matrix Initiative = 1d6 (base) + 1d6 (Pure DNI) + 2d6 (Response Increase 2) = 4d6
My Initiative for the Combat Turn = 4d6+12 = 11+12 = 23
My matrix Reaction is: 6 (INT) + 2 (Pure DNI) + 4 (Response Increase 2) = 12
My matrix Initiative = 1d6 (base) + 1d6 (Pure DNI) + 2d6 (Response Increase 2) = 4d6
My Initiative for the Combat Turn = 4d6+12 = 11+12 = 23
| QUOTE (satcong) |
| My matrix Reaction is: 6 (INT) + 2 (Pure DNI) + 4 (Response Increase 2) = 12 |
Close. Matrix reaction is capped at 10, if I remember correctly. Initiative is capped at 10+5d6 total. I completely agree with hobgoblin, you need to avoid the combat and get going as fast as you can. If there's just one system test left, I'd chance it, otherwise you might want to perform a graceful logoff action and bail. You can always wait a few hours and come back to try again (and since you know the place is loaded with trace IC, you can lay half a dozen relocate actions between your meatbody and the system).
Both options are valid, so let's go with satcong's original choice since that is what a lot of newbie deckers would do...
Datasteal Walkthrough
As the decker chooses to engage in Cybercombat, he sees the MCTracker IC icon replicate into two identical dogs. One copy drops back into the corridor while the other bares its teeth and prepares to pounce on you (this is the Trace IC going into its Hunting cycle described in Matrix, pages 105-106).
The decker rolls Initiative (this time it's important because unlike the Probe, the Scout actually engages in combat, it's also important because now the Trace is also active and starts counting down) and gets 23.
The GM, checking the IC Initiative Table in SR3 page 223 (another one to have on hand) sees that IC Initiative in an Orange system such as this is 3D6 + IC Rating. He rolls and announces the Guard icon (Scout - 8 ) draws its glowing neon truncheon at 22 and the dog icon (Trace - 8 ) braces to leap at 20.
The turn starts with the deckers' action at 23.
Tinkergnome - I've had a quick look and can't find a cap on Matrix Initiative. Do you have a reference?
Datasteal Walkthrough
As the decker chooses to engage in Cybercombat, he sees the MCTracker IC icon replicate into two identical dogs. One copy drops back into the corridor while the other bares its teeth and prepares to pounce on you (this is the Trace IC going into its Hunting cycle described in Matrix, pages 105-106).
The decker rolls Initiative (this time it's important because unlike the Probe, the Scout actually engages in combat, it's also important because now the Trace is also active and starts counting down) and gets 23.
The GM, checking the IC Initiative Table in SR3 page 223 (another one to have on hand) sees that IC Initiative in an Orange system such as this is 3D6 + IC Rating. He rolls and announces the Guard icon (Scout - 8 ) draws its glowing neon truncheon at 22 and the dog icon (Trace - 8 ) braces to leap at 20.
The turn starts with the deckers' action at 23.
Tinkergnome - I've had a quick look and can't find a cap on Matrix Initiative. Do you have a reference?
OK, first off is the Position Attack Maneuver which I believe is calculated as follows: TN#= Host Sensor (9) - Cloak (4) = 5
I roll a number of dice = Evasion rating 8 + Hacking Pool (4) = 12
Successes = 7
Pressing the 'Defrost' button on the walking cane....
I roll a number of dice = Evasion rating 8 + Hacking Pool (4) = 12
Successes = 7
Pressing the 'Defrost' button on the walking cane....
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| Tinkergnome - I've had a quick look and can't find a cap on Matrix Initiative. Do you have a reference? |
I'm 99% sure it's in the Matrix book (It's definitely not in the main book, I think it's in the front of the Matrix book with DNI and all that jazz). I'll get you guys a page reference ASAP (probably tonight) if someone doesn't beat me to it.
I worked it out from the table 'matrix Initiative Calculation' on the Matrix Data Sheet p.172, Matrix...
| QUOTE (Matrix SB @ p. 24) |
Reaction and Initiative ... The bonuses provided by these options are cumulative, but the maximum cumulative speed bonus in the Matrix is +10 Reaction and +5D6 Initiative. |
But the most important word is speed bonus, so i think you can have a reaction INT+10 but the bonus is just 10. So the calculations for Initiative in our example are correct.
The fastest deckers will have an Initiative from INT+10+6D6.
I tend to agree with Gorath since the base Initiative is Intelligence + 1d6 and all other initiative/reaction calculations are given as bonus's to this base initiative value.
Thanks all for the clarification. I too agree with Gorath's interpretation.
Datasteal Walkthrough
Now back to our example...
Satcong, note I am assuming you are attacking the Scout IC, but you should remember that both the IC are engaged in cybercombat.
You are correct regarding the Position Attack Maneuver, that is the basic roll (SR3 page 224). Since it is an Opposed Test, the IC now rolls the Host's Security Rating (9) against your Evasion ( 8 ) for a total of 3 successes.
What this means is that you get 4 net successes from your Combat Maneuver which you can use to either reduce the Target Number of your next Attack or to increase the Power of that Attack. Your icon deftly maneuvers inside the enemy's guard and presses the "Defrost" Botton.
Very Important Note - Now that we've reached your Attack I want to point out something that remains unclear in the SR3 and Matrix rules and as far as I know has not been addressed in the Errata.
The question is: How do you actually roll an Attack or to be more exact what do you roll? The writeup of the rules on SR3's page 226 is confusing in that it says that "the attacker makes a test with his offensive utility program". Does this mean that he rolls the Attack Program rating counter to the mechanics of all other Utilities? Or does it mean that he rolls his Computer Skill normally while using the Attack Program as a weapon?
IMHO I think the latter option makes more sense and fits with the way the remaining rules work and so that is the one I use (including in this example). I know other people who have interpreted this the other way, so make sure you settle this with your GM before going in and you have an understanding before you ever get into cybercombat.
Datasteal Walkthrough
Now back to our example...
Satcong, note I am assuming you are attacking the Scout IC, but you should remember that both the IC are engaged in cybercombat.
You are correct regarding the Position Attack Maneuver, that is the basic roll (SR3 page 224). Since it is an Opposed Test, the IC now rolls the Host's Security Rating (9) against your Evasion ( 8 ) for a total of 3 successes.
What this means is that you get 4 net successes from your Combat Maneuver which you can use to either reduce the Target Number of your next Attack or to increase the Power of that Attack. Your icon deftly maneuvers inside the enemy's guard and presses the "Defrost" Botton.
Very Important Note - Now that we've reached your Attack I want to point out something that remains unclear in the SR3 and Matrix rules and as far as I know has not been addressed in the Errata.
The question is: How do you actually roll an Attack or to be more exact what do you roll? The writeup of the rules on SR3's page 226 is confusing in that it says that "the attacker makes a test with his offensive utility program". Does this mean that he rolls the Attack Program rating counter to the mechanics of all other Utilities? Or does it mean that he rolls his Computer Skill normally while using the Attack Program as a weapon?
IMHO I think the latter option makes more sense and fits with the way the remaining rules work and so that is the one I use (including in this example). I know other people who have interpreted this the other way, so make sure you settle this with your GM before going in and you have an understanding before you ever get into cybercombat.
That's what I was thinking of, though my interpretation may have been a bit off. This means that Otaku aren't all that fast in the Matrix, after all (not compared to a good decker, anyway) since they top out at int+5d6 and deckers apparently top out at int+10+6d6.
My interpretation of the attack is that you use a number of dice equal to your Computer Rating (+ Hacking Pool) and the attack utility is used like a weapon, i.e. in this instance ,Attack 6D, does Deadly Damage and has a 'Power' of 8.
Whichever way we work it, I will use the four successes to maintain the damage level.... I want this sucker to go down quickly.
The cane glows white hot and a furnace-like wave of heat hits the Security Icon...
I roll Computer Skill (6) + hacking Pool (4) = 10 dice against a TN# 5 (legit icon on Orange Host?)
Result = 4 successes.
Over to you Synner....
Whichever way we work it, I will use the four successes to maintain the damage level.... I want this sucker to go down quickly.
The cane glows white hot and a furnace-like wave of heat hits the Security Icon...
I roll Computer Skill (6) + hacking Pool (4) = 10 dice against a TN# 5 (legit icon on Orange Host?)
Result = 4 successes.
Over to you Synner....
Datasteal Walkthrough
Satcong - Since our interpretations here agree we shouldn't have a problem...
Now things are starting to heat up. An interesting aspect of the SR3 default cybercombat rules is that there is no "dodge" in the Matrix. You stage up the damage and the adversary stages down. Which unfortunately brings me to another "existential doubt" that needs to be sorted out between player and GM.
Another Very Important Note - Again the rules for Icon Damage (SR3 page 226) are unclear as to what happens to the extra successes after you've staged up the Damade to Deadly. Although many people will argue that those successes remain and have to be "staged down" too, this is not detailed in the rules and I personally believe Matrix combat is deadly enough without it (remember you can make two Simple Action attacks with an Attack 6D per turn). This means that IMHO (and in my games) net successes left over after staging to Deadly are lost.
The example given in the book (again SR3 page 226) supports this interpretation since despite the fact that the IC scored 3 successes in its attack (staging damage from Serious to Deadly and with one success left over), Cassie only needs 4 successes to stage the damage back down to Moderate.
While this may seem to benefit IC over the speedy decker you will find that it is balanced out by protecting the decker in higher Security Value/Rating systems where the IC wins initiative and the decker would be toast otherwise.
For this example though I will go with whatever interpretation satcong prefers...
Satcong - Since our interpretations here agree we shouldn't have a problem...
Now things are starting to heat up. An interesting aspect of the SR3 default cybercombat rules is that there is no "dodge" in the Matrix. You stage up the damage and the adversary stages down. Which unfortunately brings me to another "existential doubt" that needs to be sorted out between player and GM.
Another Very Important Note - Again the rules for Icon Damage (SR3 page 226) are unclear as to what happens to the extra successes after you've staged up the Damade to Deadly. Although many people will argue that those successes remain and have to be "staged down" too, this is not detailed in the rules and I personally believe Matrix combat is deadly enough without it (remember you can make two Simple Action attacks with an Attack 6D per turn). This means that IMHO (and in my games) net successes left over after staging to Deadly are lost.
The example given in the book (again SR3 page 226) supports this interpretation since despite the fact that the IC scored 3 successes in its attack (staging damage from Serious to Deadly and with one success left over), Cassie only needs 4 successes to stage the damage back down to Moderate.
While this may seem to benefit IC over the speedy decker you will find that it is balanced out by protecting the decker in higher Security Value/Rating systems where the IC wins initiative and the decker would be toast otherwise.
For this example though I will go with whatever interpretation satcong prefers...
Would it not be better if the defender stageed down damage first and then the attacker stages it back up using his attack successes? I ask this since it seems that if you are using an attack utility that already does Deadly damage, there doesn't appear to be much benefit in using successes for staging damage?
For the purposes of this example though I am comfortable with Synner's interpretation of the net successes and staged damage - I therefore want to maintain my attack at Deadly....
that mean sa avarage human with max hardware can have a initiative of 49?! and onewith int 6 can have what? 52?! we are talking atleast 5 action, and that means 10 attacks, to hell with the IC i can take it all 
oops, this post ended up way back? you guys didnt type up all this while i was doing my little calculations did you?
anyways, i would handle it just like normal combat, every two successes past D would up the power of the attack by 1. remeber that SR is a deadly game and the defneder have to in all other combats the job of "absorbing" the damage...
hmm, looks like the base matrix combat rules need to be clared up, where is my VR2.0 book?
oops, this post ended up way back? you guys didnt type up all this while i was doing my little calculations did you?
anyways, i would handle it just like normal combat, every two successes past D would up the power of the attack by 1. remeber that SR is a deadly game and the defneder have to in all other combats the job of "absorbing" the damage...
hmm, looks like the base matrix combat rules need to be clared up, where is my VR2.0 book?
Datasteal Walkthrough
Okay then, continuing...
The burst of digital flame from the decker's cane hits and engulfs the Scout IC icon doing 10D damage (this is an Attack 6D to which you've added the 4 net successes from the Attack Position Maneuver).
The IC only manages one success in the Damage Resistance Test (Security Ratiung 9 vs. 10D damage) which isn't enough to stage down the damage and so takes a Deadly wound and is incinerated into pixiliated ash.
Note - Suppressing IC is apparently automatic, the same as a Free Action, although you have to declare immediately if you want to surpress it. So this should be done next.
Now it's the Trace IC's action at 20. It's currently in Hunting Cycle which requires it to succeed in one attack to initiate the Location Cycle. So it chooses to makes two Simple Action attacks against the decker.
The Trace IC rolls the Host's Security Rating (9) against a Target number of 4 because the decker is an Intruding Icon and does not possess a Validated Account (SR3 page 224).
The Trace gets 5 successes on the first roll and 4 successes with the second which means it 'hits' both its attacks. What happens now is that the Decker must roll his Evasion ( 8 ) twice against the Trace IC's rating ( 8 ) as described in Matrix, page 106. Let's imagine the decker manages to roll 3 successes against each attack reducing them to 2 net successes in the first and 1 net success in the second. The Trace has enough net successes left with which to enter its Location cycle.
Back in the Archive Room (Files subsystem) a split second after sinking its shiny chrome teeth into your Icon's thigh, the MCTTracker8.0 (Trace - 8 IC) fades and vanishes into thin air. The copy standing in the corridor shoots back the way you came and also vanishes from sight (having achieved a hit the Trace has now "disappeared" and is now in Location Cycle). Cybercombat is over.
You may now:
a) Get back to your business (you have at least a couple of Turns before the Trace locates your access point possibly more).
b) Try to locate the Trace IC (a component of which remains in the Host system as reactive IC) to destroy it before it completes it's Trace.
Note - For the specifics of how long a Trace takes to Locate your jackpoint and the exact consequences of this try Matrix page 106. Take note that besides giving away your meatbod's location to physical assets the Trace also causes Tally Aceleration and enhances IC Targeting once complete.
Okay then, continuing...
The burst of digital flame from the decker's cane hits and engulfs the Scout IC icon doing 10D damage (this is an Attack 6D to which you've added the 4 net successes from the Attack Position Maneuver).
The IC only manages one success in the Damage Resistance Test (Security Ratiung 9 vs. 10D damage) which isn't enough to stage down the damage and so takes a Deadly wound and is incinerated into pixiliated ash.
Note - Suppressing IC is apparently automatic, the same as a Free Action, although you have to declare immediately if you want to surpress it. So this should be done next.
Now it's the Trace IC's action at 20. It's currently in Hunting Cycle which requires it to succeed in one attack to initiate the Location Cycle. So it chooses to makes two Simple Action attacks against the decker.
The Trace IC rolls the Host's Security Rating (9) against a Target number of 4 because the decker is an Intruding Icon and does not possess a Validated Account (SR3 page 224).
The Trace gets 5 successes on the first roll and 4 successes with the second which means it 'hits' both its attacks. What happens now is that the Decker must roll his Evasion ( 8 ) twice against the Trace IC's rating ( 8 ) as described in Matrix, page 106. Let's imagine the decker manages to roll 3 successes against each attack reducing them to 2 net successes in the first and 1 net success in the second. The Trace has enough net successes left with which to enter its Location cycle.
Back in the Archive Room (Files subsystem) a split second after sinking its shiny chrome teeth into your Icon's thigh, the MCTTracker8.0 (Trace - 8 IC) fades and vanishes into thin air. The copy standing in the corridor shoots back the way you came and also vanishes from sight (having achieved a hit the Trace has now "disappeared" and is now in Location Cycle). Cybercombat is over.
You may now:
a) Get back to your business (you have at least a couple of Turns before the Trace locates your access point possibly more).
b) Try to locate the Trace IC (a component of which remains in the Host system as reactive IC) to destroy it before it completes it's Trace.
Note - For the specifics of how long a Trace takes to Locate your jackpoint and the exact consequences of this try Matrix page 106. Take note that besides giving away your meatbod's location to physical assets the Trace also causes Tally Aceleration and enhances IC Targeting once complete.
Something else to add to the melting pot concerning staged damage...
In normal, non-matrix combat,
"the successes of the participants are usually compared, and the character with the higher net successes wins and stages the damage accordingly" SR3, p.114, Staging.
It appears to me from this that despite the fact that the attack test and the damage resistance test are sequential actions in the combat turn, staging of damage is carried out simultaneously?
If this is the case in non-matrix combat can we not assume that the same applies in the matrix?
In normal, non-matrix combat,
"the successes of the participants are usually compared, and the character with the higher net successes wins and stages the damage accordingly" SR3, p.114, Staging.
It appears to me from this that despite the fact that the attack test and the damage resistance test are sequential actions in the combat turn, staging of damage is carried out simultaneously?
If this is the case in non-matrix combat can we not assume that the same applies in the matrix?
holy, here the posts are flying! hmm, nice point satcong, if the IC under attack gets more net successes then thedecker then its staged down, otherwise its staged up? hmm, will this change stuff in refrence to first stage up and then stage down? dont think so, but there is a problem as i think the rules say that any stangeing of the damage past D will up the power of the attack by 1 pr 2 successes, thereby makeing what your saying a contradiction as the power is staged after the resistance so to speak. and if so, whats the point in stageing the power?
oops, where did i get that idea from, i reead the info on stageing in sr3 and no refrence there on modefying the power
hmm, that makes your point valid satcong. do the checks and then stage depending on who got the net. must be some old info floating about in my head or something...
oops, where did i get that idea from, i reead the info on stageing in sr3 and no refrence there on modefying the power
hmm, that makes your point valid satcong. do the checks and then stage depending on who got the net. must be some old info floating about in my head or something...
Ignoring the teeth marks in his thigh, the icon reverts back to being a little old man....
He decides to suppress the crashed security icon (another hacking pool dice used for a total of 2 including the suppressed Cutie Probe IC).
Once again, he puts the file in the breast-pocket of his embroidered waist-jacket (Download File)...
Testing against a TN# 4 (File Subsystem rating - Read Write 5), I roll 8 dice (Computer 6 + Hacking Pool 2) and achieve 3 successes...
All I need to know is the file size and how long it will take to fully download it?
He decides to suppress the crashed security icon (another hacking pool dice used for a total of 2 including the suppressed Cutie Probe IC).
Once again, he puts the file in the breast-pocket of his embroidered waist-jacket (Download File)...
Testing against a TN# 4 (File Subsystem rating - Read Write 5), I roll 8 dice (Computer 6 + Hacking Pool 2) and achieve 3 successes...
All I need to know is the file size and how long it will take to fully download it?
Note - I'm pretty sure that the rules for Trace have a design flaw in the way the Hunting cycle works but I've tried to interpret them in a way that works. I'd be grateful for anyone that has an alternative solution or another explanation on how it might work to post it.
hey synner, unsupressing a IC is a free action, supressing one is automatic if declared (pr IC). allso i dont think there is any effect of damage resistance in trace ic, they just have to get a successful attack (basicly it just wants a taste of you ) so as soon as the trace ic rolls a successful attack you got a location sycle on your hand. oops not realy, you seems to get a kind of dodge check with your evation againt the IC rating, if the ic gets 1 or more net succeses out of this then it initiates location sycle. matrix page 106...
this isnt D&D where a hit = Damage, in SR a attack may be a hit but the target may resist all the damage (a hit equals a shot or blow that contact with your target, damage is another story)...
) so as soon as the trace ic rolls a successful attack you got a location sycle on your hand. oops not realy, you seems to get a kind of dodge check with your evation againt the IC rating, if the ic gets 1 or more net succeses out of this then it initiates location sycle. matrix page 106...this isnt D&D where a hit = Damage, in SR a attack may be a hit but the target may resist all the damage
(a hit equals a shot or blow that contact with your target, damage is another story)...
Hobgoblin is right....
| QUOTE (Matrix SR @ p. 105) |
Hunt Cycle During the hunt cycle, trace IC makes Attack Test against the intruder using the system's Security Value. All of the standart cybercombat rules apply. The trace IC suffers a +1 target number modifier for each successful Redirect Datatrail operation the target icon performs (see p. 100). If struck, the intruder makes an Evasion (Trace IC Rating) Test. If the targeted icon achieves an equal or greater number of successes, the attack fails to hit. If the trace IC achieves at least 1 net success, it has successfully hit the intruder and locked onto its datatrail, and the location cycle begins. |
So no need to stage down deadly damage...
| QUOTE |
| oops not realy, you seems to get a kind of dodge check with your evation againt the IC rating, if the ic gets 1 or more net succeses out of this then it initiates location sycle. matrix page 106... |
Thanks hobgoblin, I had misread that section several times now. Going back I now realise how it works clearly. The IC rolls the attack normally but instead of all the Damage Resistance stuff I was doing the target gets to make an Evasion Test against the IC rating. The net successes are then compared and the IC either enters its Location cycle (one or more successes) or tries again next turn (no successes).
Satcong - I'm going to edit my previous post accordingly. Please reread it and then edit yours accodingly if you think its necessary, I'll leave an identical outcome so we don't mislead anyone following this.
Ok, let's assume that I made a 'dodge' test against the Trace IC attacks (Evasion vs IC Rating) and that the Trace IC achieved more net successes... it then disappears as it enters it's hunt cycle.
Meanwhile, I revert to my earlier post at this point, namely:
Ignoring the teeth marks in his thigh, the icon reverts back to being a little old man....
He decides to suppress the crashed security icon (another hacking pool dice used for a total of 2 including the suppressed Cutie Probe IC).
Leaving all thoughts of chasing the damned dog, he concentrates on getting the file downloaded.
Once again, he puts the file in the breast-pocket of his embroidered waist-jacket (Download File)...
Testing against a TN# 4 (File Subsystem rating - Read Write 5), I roll 8 dice (Computer 6 + Hacking Pool 2) and achieve 3 successes...
All I need to know is the file size and how long it will take to fully download it?
Meanwhile, I revert to my earlier post at this point, namely:
Ignoring the teeth marks in his thigh, the icon reverts back to being a little old man....
He decides to suppress the crashed security icon (another hacking pool dice used for a total of 2 including the suppressed Cutie Probe IC).
Leaving all thoughts of chasing the damned dog, he concentrates on getting the file downloaded.
Once again, he puts the file in the breast-pocket of his embroidered waist-jacket (Download File)...
Testing against a TN# 4 (File Subsystem rating - Read Write 5), I roll 8 dice (Computer 6 + Hacking Pool 2) and achieve 3 successes...
All I need to know is the file size and how long it will take to fully download it?
just one more small correction about that rewrite of yours synner. if the trace ic get a hit on the first one it does not need to do a second one, it will just do one and then automaticly jump into location sycle...
looks like the old "hacker" classic of jumping from one server to the next exist partialy in the matrix to, the redirect datatrail basicly hooks one matrix number to the next (mutch like call forwarding).
hmm, that i guess is the basic diffrence from the net of today and the matrix of sr, the matrix have more in common with the current phone network then it with a decentralised cluster of computers (thats what in theory atleast the net is) with its stacks of ltgs and rtgs...
and given this info its easy to see what the redirect datatrail does, it puts in a small change in the connection tables of the ltg its done on giving the icon of the decker a new matrix id and telling the ltg to forward any signal comeing from the old id to the new and allso the other way around. basicly you just set up a virtual proxy/nat
looks like the old "hacker" classic of jumping from one server to the next exist partialy in the matrix to, the redirect datatrail basicly hooks one matrix number to the next (mutch like call forwarding).
hmm, that i guess is the basic diffrence from the net of today and the matrix of sr, the matrix have more in common with the current phone network then it with a decentralised cluster of computers (thats what in theory atleast the net is) with its stacks of ltgs and rtgs...
and given this info its easy to see what the redirect datatrail does, it puts in a small change in the connection tables of the ltg its done on giving the icon of the decker a new matrix id and telling the ltg to forward any signal comeing from the old id to the new and allso the other way around. basicly you just set up a virtual proxy/nat
Datasteal Walkthrough
Satcong - Actually I still need to roll the Host's Success Contest to your system operation... The Host, as always, rolls its Security rating (9) against your Detection Factor (7). and gets 3 successes.
An equal amount of successes is enough for the System Operation to work and the Data Download begins. The file is 550Mp in size and should take two turns to download at the Renraku Kraftwerk-8's default I/O speed.
But... the Host's three successes against you in the System Test add to your Security Tally, raising it from step 12 to step 15 and activating more IC.
The GM rolls a secret Sensor Test for the decker and gets 2 successes. The decker's Icon turns in time to see another SecGuard icon, this one apparently an outdated but powerful COProbe 8.0 (old Fuchi software), come in to the Archive Room and take position at the door.
Your play...
Satcong - Actually I still need to roll the Host's Success Contest to your system operation... The Host, as always, rolls its Security rating (9) against your Detection Factor (7). and gets 3 successes.
An equal amount of successes is enough for the System Operation to work and the Data Download begins. The file is 550Mp in size and should take two turns to download at the Renraku Kraftwerk-8's default I/O speed.
But... the Host's three successes against you in the System Test add to your Security Tally, raising it from step 12 to step 15 and activating more IC.
The GM rolls a secret Sensor Test for the decker and gets 2 successes. The decker's Icon turns in time to see another SecGuard icon, this one apparently an outdated but powerful COProbe 8.0 (old Fuchi software), come in to the Archive Room and take position at the door.
Your play...
Since the 'Download Data' operation is an ongoing action, I shall just leave it running in the background and concentrate on this new Probe IC.....
The old man turns and looks at the Security Guard. Realising that the download is only going to take a short while and that all he needs to do is buy some time, the old man ducks behind one of the filing cabinets and hides.... (Evade Detection)
Initiating Cybercombat with the intent of using the 'Evade Detection' combat maneuver, a simple action, I roll for Initiative...
My Initiative for the Combat Turn = 4d6+12 = 15+12 = 27
On my initiative I roll Evasion 8 against a TN# equal to the Host's Security Value (9) minus my Cloak rating (4) = 5
Number of successes = 4
Over to you Synner for your Security Test.... I think...
The old man turns and looks at the Security Guard. Realising that the download is only going to take a short while and that all he needs to do is buy some time, the old man ducks behind one of the filing cabinets and hides.... (Evade Detection)
Initiating Cybercombat with the intent of using the 'Evade Detection' combat maneuver, a simple action, I roll for Initiative...
My Initiative for the Combat Turn = 4d6+12 = 15+12 = 27
On my initiative I roll Evasion 8 against a TN# equal to the Host's Security Value (9) minus my Cloak rating (4) = 5
Number of successes = 4
Over to you Synner for your Security Test.... I think...
Datasteal Walkthrough
The IC roles 21 for Initiative so you start.
As the decker's Icon ducks behind the filing cabinet for concealment the IC rolls Security rating (9) against your Evasion ( 8 ). The Probe rolls only one success which means you manage to Evade Detection and it will only "reacquire" you in 3 Turns time (as per the rules for the Evade Detection Maneuver in SR3, pages 224 and 225).
One Turn later, while the decker is still hiding behind a row of filing cabinets, the computer bleeps "Data Download Complete" in his monocle.
Your move...
The IC roles 21 for Initiative so you start.
As the decker's Icon ducks behind the filing cabinet for concealment the IC rolls Security rating (9) against your Evasion ( 8 ). The Probe rolls only one success which means you manage to Evade Detection and it will only "reacquire" you in 3 Turns time (as per the rules for the Evade Detection Maneuver in SR3, pages 224 and 225).
One Turn later, while the decker is still hiding behind a row of filing cabinets, the computer bleeps "Data Download Complete" in his monocle.
Your move...
Knowing that the download is complete, the little old man now wants out ASAP. However, he wants to do things in style and steps out from behind the filing cabinet that he is currently hiding behind, faces the Security Guard, bows gracefully and disappears (GRACEFUL LOGOFF)....
Rolling for initiative again (4d6+12) my icon scores 10+12=22
On my initiative turn I shall attempt a Graceful Logoff . This is an access test against a TN# 12 (Access rating) - 6 (Deception) = 6.
I will roll a number of dice equal to 6 (Computer Skill) + 7 (Hacking Pool, remember that 2 hacking pool dice are being used to suppress IC) = 13
I score 5 successes.....
Rolling for initiative again (4d6+12) my icon scores 10+12=22
On my initiative turn I shall attempt a Graceful Logoff . This is an access test against a TN# 12 (Access rating) - 6 (Deception) = 6.
I will roll a number of dice equal to 6 (Computer Skill) + 7 (Hacking Pool, remember that 2 hacking pool dice are being used to suppress IC) = 13
I score 5 successes.....
| QUOTE (Matrix SB @ p.102) |
Graceful Logoff Like the track utility, a trace IC program in its location cycle will add its rating as a traget number modifier to any Graceful Logoff attempts (see Trace IC, p. 104). If the Graceful Logoff is successful, any trace programs homing in on the user from the system immediatly fail. |
Also you can just add 6 dices from hacking pool.
Datasteal Walkthrough
Actually there's a small but in there... according to the Graceful Logoff system operation description in SR3 (page 217) - reiterated under the Trace IC description in Matrix (page 105 under "Running for it") - you've done everything correctly except that:
"A tracking utility" (such as the Trace IC) "in it's Location Cycle" (which it is) "adds it's rating as a target number modifier to any Graceful Logoff attempts."
Like the track utility, a trace IC program in its location cycle will add its rating as a target number modifier to any Graceful Logoff attempts (see Trace IC, p. 104). If the Graceful Logoff is successful, any trace programs homing in on the user from the system immediatly fail.
What this means is that the Target Number for the Graceful Logoff operation is actually 12 (Access subsystem rating) - 6 (Deception Utility) + 8 (Trace IC rating) = 14 (not nice at all)... (aka you should have taken out the Trace IC before the Scout IC.)
[edit] Gorath beat me to it
Note - Synner's rule #5 - White IC is even worse than Black IC. Black IC puts an end to your misery, White IC works to ruin your day indefinitely.
Actually there's a small but in there... according to the Graceful Logoff system operation description in SR3 (page 217) - reiterated under the Trace IC description in Matrix (page 105 under "Running for it") - you've done everything correctly except that:
"A tracking utility" (such as the Trace IC) "in it's Location Cycle" (which it is) "adds it's rating as a target number modifier to any Graceful Logoff attempts."
Like the track utility, a trace IC program in its location cycle will add its rating as a target number modifier to any Graceful Logoff attempts (see Trace IC, p. 104). If the Graceful Logoff is successful, any trace programs homing in on the user from the system immediatly fail.
What this means is that the Target Number for the Graceful Logoff operation is actually 12 (Access subsystem rating) - 6 (Deception Utility) + 8 (Trace IC rating) = 14 (not nice at all)... (aka you should have taken out the Trace IC before the Scout IC.)
[edit] Gorath beat me to it
Note - Synner's rule #5 - White IC is even worse than Black IC. Black IC puts an end to your misery, White IC works to ruin your day indefinitely.
OK.... 'Graceful Logoff' looks like a no-no....
Using a Free Action I can simply 'jack-out' and accept the effects of dump shock - Orange host = Serious Stun Damage?
Things are getting way too hot in here for my neophyte decker.... in fact, the little old man is getting a little worried....
Can I jack out please?
Using a Free Action I can simply 'jack-out' and accept the effects of dump shock - Orange host = Serious Stun Damage?
Things are getting way too hot in here for my neophyte decker.... in fact, the little old man is getting a little worried....
Can I jack out please?
| QUOTE (Matrix SB @ p. 107) |
| Defeating Trace IC Simply jacking out of the system will not defeat trace IC, because jacking outleaves the comm links in the network open for a measurable period. [...] If a user does jack out, roll 1D6-1 (minimum value of 1). The result is the number of turns remaining in the trace program's location cycle, the IC will still locate the jackpoint. |
Hope you are a careful decker and did not deck from your home. Even if not you should leave the jackpoint very soon, maybe a team is already on the way.
Question: Can you perform a Relocate Trace operation even if you did not locate the trace IC?
I might be a neophyte decker but I sure ain't stupid.....
I jacked in from an illegal jackpoint - I'm not saying where - but my meat bod is well guarded.....
The dump shock may leave me a bit confused, if not outright unconscious, but my buddies know the routine.... just as I kicked ass in the matrix, they'll kick ass if the security goons make a show.... LOL
I jacked in from an illegal jackpoint - I'm not saying where - but my meat bod is well guarded.....
The dump shock may leave me a bit confused, if not outright unconscious, but my buddies know the routine.... just as I kicked ass in the matrix, they'll kick ass if the security goons make a show.... LOL
Good to be careful. So i see no problems if you jack out.
That's one of the reasons satlinks rock so very, very hard. Go in through FreeSat and, with a Deception Factor >=6, you can probably get in without raising more than a point of tally (Decrypt action and Access action). From there, drop onto half a dozen third world RTGs and relocate before going to your target.
After we finished this matrix run we could start one, over a satlink + some Redirect Datatrail operations in some RTGs. As far as i know the description for FreeSat is in Target:Matrix.
Datasteal Walkthrough
Satcong - I see no problems with the Jack Out option either...
Starting to sweat a little but having completed his mission the Old Man decides to jack out before his Evade Detection wears off dodging another confrontation with IC. Jerking the jack out of your temple is a sudden shock that send shivers and spasms through your nervous system as the DNI disengages too quickly and muscles clench and lock. (Dumpshock = 9S Stun, per the rules in SR3 page 227).
The Jacking Out leaves the Trace IC confused in it's Location Cycle and it takes a further 5 Turns to locate your jackpoint.
His fellow runners grab the drooling shellshocked decker under his arms and make good their escape.
This run is complete.
Gorath - I was thinking of trying some different runs to showcase other situations so your suggestion seems like a good idea to me.
Satcong - I see no problems with the Jack Out option either...
Starting to sweat a little but having completed his mission the Old Man decides to jack out before his Evade Detection wears off dodging another confrontation with IC. Jerking the jack out of your temple is a sudden shock that send shivers and spasms through your nervous system as the DNI disengages too quickly and muscles clench and lock. (Dumpshock = 9S Stun, per the rules in SR3 page 227).
The Jacking Out leaves the Trace IC confused in it's Location Cycle and it takes a further 5 Turns to locate your jackpoint.
His fellow runners grab the drooling shellshocked decker under his arms and make good their escape.
This run is complete.
Gorath - I was thinking of trying some different runs to showcase other situations so your suggestion seems like a good idea to me.
Datasteal Walkthrough Summary
To help dispel the misconception that Matrix runs are long and break the flow of the game, here is a bare bones breakdown of the Tests the run involved for the decker without all the description and explanations:
Now before going on to other stuff why don't we do a revision of the whole run and hear suggestions from people on how it could have gone better?
How could the decker have improved his performance, lowered his target numbers, dodged some IC or done things differently? Let's hear your opinions and comments.
To help dispel the misconception that Matrix runs are long and break the flow of the game, here is a bare bones breakdown of the Tests the run involved for the decker without all the description and explanations:
- Logon to Host (successful)
- Locate File (successful)
- GM secret IC Detection Sensor roll for Decker (successful)
- Cybercombat with Probe IC – Turn 1: Position Attack Maneuver, Attack (successful); Probe destroyed.
- Edit File (successful)
- Download Data (failed)
- GM secret IC Detection Sensor roll for Decker (successful)
- Cybercombat with Scout 8 and Trace 8 – Turn 1: Position Attack Maneuver, Attack (successful); Scout destroyed; Trace attack/hunting cycle (successful)
- Data Download (successful)
- GM secret IC Detection Sensor roll for Decker (successful)
- Cybercombat with Probe 8 trapped with TarPit – Turn 1: Evade Detection Maneuver (successful); Probe evaded for 3 Turns.
- Graceful Logoff (failed)
- Jack Out
Now before going on to other stuff why don't we do a revision of the whole run and hear suggestions from people on how it could have gone better?
How could the decker have improved his performance, lowered his target numbers, dodged some IC or done things differently? Let's hear your opinions and comments.
maybe time to do a matrix run thats shows a decker doing matrix overwatch?
then you can show of the fact that with a null operation the decker can suspend himself in waiting for the guys inside to run into something (tally have a bad habbit of going haywire if it takes to long tho)...
the problem i think most GM's have is that they dont know how to handle both a decker and meat personal at hte same time but info for that is all over the books. null ops, the very fact that diffrent ops take diffrent levels of actions and so on. hell, there is even a way to calculate how manyactions a decker gets whiel the rest of hte team is in combat without the decker actualy rolling for initiative...
then you can show of the fact that with a null operation the decker can suspend himself in waiting for the guys inside to run into something (tally have a bad habbit of going haywire if it takes to long tho)...
the problem i think most GM's have is that they dont know how to handle both a decker and meat personal at hte same time but info for that is all over the books. null ops, the very fact that diffrent ops take diffrent levels of actions and so on. hell, there is even a way to calculate how manyactions a decker gets whiel the rest of hte team is in combat without the decker actualy rolling for initiative...
Hobgoblin is absolutely right. Now that we have completed this run I am more confident about being able to integrate matrix activities into a standard meat-bod adventure.
At the end of the day, both involve essentially the same procedures (initiative, declarations, actions etc) and as long as players and GM are well-prepared and knowledgeable about their characters, how they work, and how the mechanics work this should not be as difficult as previously believed.
At the end of the day, both involve essentially the same procedures (initiative, declarations, actions etc) and as long as players and GM are well-prepared and knowledgeable about their characters, how they work, and how the mechanics work this should not be as difficult as previously believed.
Lessons Learned
First, thanks are due to Synner for providing the opportunity to carry out this run. Other thanks are due to contributors who added comments and suggestions.
I think the most important thing I learned was that good preparation by the GM, in particular the creation of a credible iconography, is essential to the success of the run. I found that the matrix run felt exactly the same as a standard non-matrix run in that descriptively it was very ‘real’. I began to think of the icons as being physical realities so that, for instance, IC combat in the matrix ‘appeared’ like standard non-matrix combat. In effect, what I am trying to say is that the GM’s ability to graphically describe the iconography allowed me to make the imaginative leap from the real-world to the digital one. This was something I had not been able to grasp previously when I viewed the matrix purely as a set of tests and dice rolls. Having a graphical iconography made me think about my own icon and to present it's actions in a more graphical way also - in effect, I had to role-play the little old man.
I also learned that both the GM and Decker need to know, or at least have references close at hand, how the matrix mechanics work. Synner repeatedly stressed the benefits of having Matrix p. 162 – 163 available. About half-way through the run I started to appreciate why he stressed this and in referring to these pages I began to understand the Operation/Test/Utility/Action relationship so that I was able to look at the utilities that I had loaded and then find the necessary target numbers and so forth. This greatly facilitated my enjoyment since I felt as though I was taking responsibility for my decker rather than leaving all calculations to the GM to work out.
What became very apparent during the course of the run is that the decker’s preparation for his matrix-run is every bit as important as the preparation carried out by any shadowrunning team/character prior to a mission. Things like data-trails, validated accounts, reconnaissance of the host and so forth. This applies equally to the decker’s consideration of his mission, target and loadout so that he can make appropriate decisions based on his mission plan.
There are many other things that I would like to mention but for brevity will leave to others to draw attention to. Suffice to say that I now have a completely different outlook on the matrix and it no longer intimidates me as GM or Player in the way it did before.
Thanks Synner, thanks everyone. Let's do some more.
First, thanks are due to Synner for providing the opportunity to carry out this run. Other thanks are due to contributors who added comments and suggestions.
I think the most important thing I learned was that good preparation by the GM, in particular the creation of a credible iconography, is essential to the success of the run. I found that the matrix run felt exactly the same as a standard non-matrix run in that descriptively it was very ‘real’. I began to think of the icons as being physical realities so that, for instance, IC combat in the matrix ‘appeared’ like standard non-matrix combat. In effect, what I am trying to say is that the GM’s ability to graphically describe the iconography allowed me to make the imaginative leap from the real-world to the digital one. This was something I had not been able to grasp previously when I viewed the matrix purely as a set of tests and dice rolls. Having a graphical iconography made me think about my own icon and to present it's actions in a more graphical way also - in effect, I had to role-play the little old man.
I also learned that both the GM and Decker need to know, or at least have references close at hand, how the matrix mechanics work. Synner repeatedly stressed the benefits of having Matrix p. 162 – 163 available. About half-way through the run I started to appreciate why he stressed this and in referring to these pages I began to understand the Operation/Test/Utility/Action relationship so that I was able to look at the utilities that I had loaded and then find the necessary target numbers and so forth. This greatly facilitated my enjoyment since I felt as though I was taking responsibility for my decker rather than leaving all calculations to the GM to work out.
What became very apparent during the course of the run is that the decker’s preparation for his matrix-run is every bit as important as the preparation carried out by any shadowrunning team/character prior to a mission. Things like data-trails, validated accounts, reconnaissance of the host and so forth. This applies equally to the decker’s consideration of his mission, target and loadout so that he can make appropriate decisions based on his mission plan.
There are many other things that I would like to mention but for brevity will leave to others to draw attention to. Suffice to say that I now have a completely different outlook on the matrix and it no longer intimidates me as GM or Player in the way it did before.
Thanks Synner, thanks everyone. Let's do some more.
gah, new content...
just to give you some easy pointers to how to integrate the deckers on overwatch with the meat world:
first of, get the guy a headware radio with a transducer (i think thats the name of the hardware), that way he can just think to speak. the other solution is for the decker to head for the rtg beforehand and set up a conference call with the cellphones of the rest of hte team by using the comcall utility
sure you can use normal radios and phones to but then you take +8 to all actions on the host and you loose automaticly any initative ties one other idea could be someone on hitcher trodes tho alltho that means having someone sitting besides you and being a relay. opps, forget that with the matrix book in hand you can plug in radios and cellphones into the deck tru the FUP
just to give you some easy pointers to how to integrate the deckers on overwatch with the meat world:
first of, get the guy a headware radio with a transducer (i think thats the name of the hardware), that way he can just think to speak. the other solution is for the decker to head for the rtg beforehand and set up a conference call with the cellphones of the rest of hte team by using the comcall utility
sure you can use normal radios and phones to but then you take +8 to all actions on the host and you loose automaticly any initative ties
one other idea could be someone on hitcher trodes tho alltho that means having someone sitting besides you and being a relay. opps, forget that with the matrix book in hand you can plug in radios and cellphones into the deck tru the FUP
I think a Matrix Overwatch run would go well as the next example, we could also run through the satlink as an introduction to that and cover both aspects.
However before we get into that I'd really like to see suggestions on how satcong could have modified his performance, his deck, his program load out and/or his choices on this run to avoid getting in so much trouble.
I'll start with the most obvious one:
However before we get into that I'd really like to see suggestions on how satcong could have modified his performance, his deck, his program load out and/or his choices on this run to avoid getting in so much trouble.
I'll start with the most obvious one:
- Use Masking Mode whenever possible (if your GM is using the Matrix sb that is), your Detection Factor is your most important attribute while decking and this is the easiest way of raising it with the Rating 6 caps on beginning programs.
- If using Program Options from the Matrix sb use Sneak and Stealth options on relevant Utilities. They add significantly to Program size but are worth it.
I didn't realise that you could purchase utilities at set-up with the options - I thought these were only available if you were programming your own utilities.
Just shows what you can miss if you don't read the material thoroughly.
Just shows what you can miss if you don't read the material thoroughly.
| QUOTE (satcong @ Aug 20 2003, 09:05 AM) |
| Would like to take you up on this. I have created a Decker as follows: Body 3; Quick 4; STR 3; CHA 2; INT 6; WILL 6 Cyberware: Encephalon 2, Math SPU 3, Induction Datajack and Adaptor Skills: Computer 6, Computer B/R 6, Electronics 4, Electronics B/R 6 Hacking Pool: 9 (4 + Encepahalon (2) + Math SPU (3)) Initiative 9+3d6 (includes Response Increase 2) Cyberdeck: Renraku Kraftwerk-1: MPCP 8, Bod 6, Evasion 8, Sensor 4, Masking 6 Utilities: Sleaze 8, Analyze 4, Browse 6, Deception 6, Decrypt 6, Spoof 4, Reloctae 5, Read/Write 5, Attack 6D, Armor 6, Cloak 4 and Medic 6 (976Mp total, 252,800 NuYen) |
Here's the original setup from the first page for those who care
Things I see immediately are that the decker should change out his evasion and masking ratings. Evasion is good, but masking is better. I'd suggest that Body and Sensor trade, but you might Body your victim when you go into masking mode, and having a 3 wouldn't be as bad as a 2. Otherwise, I'd trade the two. That little change made, in masking mode, you have a Detection factor of 10, which is a profound improvement over 6 (average system success goes from 1/6 to 1/12).
Also, the decker has a killer relocate program but didn't take the time to use it. It's worth considering that the medic utility could be replaced with something else. Depending on how urgent the run is, by the time you need it, you should probably just jack out and try later.
That, and I'd add in some peripherals, such as a sat link and a radio/cellphone. Cellphones aren't the best thing in the world (because they are so easy to trace), but they're better than nothing.
Agreed.
Having read up more now on Matrix (a bonus forced upon me by the run itself) I know understand the benefits of Masking over Evasion and also Sensor over Bod.
I also now know about Masking Mode.
The Medic Utility is pretty redundant (large and expensive) and from recent events would drop that in favour of something else - such as LOCATE.
Didn't have a clue really about the benefits of RELOCATE until I actually had the run-in with the Trace IC.... the learning curve can be steep and dangerous in the Matrix.
Thanks TinkerGnome.
Having read up more now on Matrix (a bonus forced upon me by the run itself) I know understand the benefits of Masking over Evasion and also Sensor over Bod.
I also now know about Masking Mode.
The Medic Utility is pretty redundant (large and expensive) and from recent events would drop that in favour of something else - such as LOCATE.
Didn't have a clue really about the benefits of RELOCATE until I actually had the run-in with the Trace IC.... the learning curve can be steep and dangerous in the Matrix.
Thanks TinkerGnome.
Also of benefit would be a Commlink utility, Camo, Defuse, Doorstop, Purge, Sniffer, and Validate. The most important of these are Camo and Validate, of course. The others are very useful in fairly common applications, but can probably stay in non-active memory until they are needed.
I was previously confused and thought Relocate and Camo were different things. The decker couldn't have done Redirect Datatrail operations (which I've been erroneously calling relocate actions, I think) but should have tried to relocate his way out of the trace that was following him.
When you have a high detection factor, it's worth noting, you should Analyze just about everything before using it (particularly if you suspect your GM of using some nasty tricks). Between virtual machines, databombs, and worms, you'll be glad you did.
And never, ever forget to buy a power cord. Decks don't appear to come with them.
I was previously confused and thought Relocate and Camo were different things. The decker couldn't have done Redirect Datatrail operations (which I've been erroneously calling relocate actions, I think) but should have tried to relocate his way out of the trace that was following him.
When you have a high detection factor, it's worth noting, you should Analyze just about everything before using it (particularly if you suspect your GM of using some nasty tricks). Between virtual machines, databombs, and worms, you'll be glad you did.
And never, ever forget to buy a power cord. Decks don't appear to come with them.
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