The first place to look would probably be the Universal Device Rating table on p. 214. The text that goes along with it explains it's there so they didn't have to print the matrix/device stats of every wireless device in the book. By that, most vehicles would have average ratings across the board, unless you or the manufacturer takes the time and expense to upgrade. I'd imagine the vehicles that come stock with the higher-rated Pilot software would have the equivalent hardware to run it on, however.

Hmm... Missed that part. Ok then... Thanks for the quick response!!

Doesn't hacking seem too easy in 4th edition.

Say you have a node with slightly above average ratings (firewall 4, system 4).

Then say the team is on a run and they have a few days to comlete it. The hacker has (exploit 3, hacking 5, stealth 4). The hacker could then do a probing hack on the node and with bad rolls he could have admin level access in 7 or 8 hours. With good rolls he could do it in 5 or 6 hours. This is using VR.

The system only gets one test with threshold 4. If it misses the hacker can pretty much do whatever he wants in the system.

Your thoughts?

patrolling IC/deckers his icon will be wrong they can notice and attack.

What's the consensus on Autosofts here? Does a Rigger need to be a separate Autosoft for each drone he wants it to run on? Or does every drone run off of the Riggers 'link and thus, they can "share" autosofts? The Drone Rigger archetype just lists them all under an "autosofts" section, and I was kind of expecting them to be listed with a specific drone that they are running on.

I apologize if this has already been covered but I could not find it.

On page 225 under programs the rulebook states that a device cannot run a program at a rating above its system rating.

On page 229 under VR Matrix Perception the rulebook talks about you existing wherever your persona is within the matrix. It says you start out in your commlink and then "move" to other nodes.

This leads me to think that when the hacker is hacking a company's network his programs are limited by the system rating of the node he is hacking.

Does this seem correct?

No - you'll always be limited by your system rating - that's where your programs actually are (and run) after all.

Agents, however, might be different - since they can continue to run while you're offline...but I don't think that was ever actually entirely thought through (they stop hogging your system after you offload them, anyway).

Agents run at the response of the node they are on. If you load them onto another node, it will use that node's response.

The rating of any program loaded into an agent is limited by the agent's rating. the agent's rating is essentially it's own system.

If the node an agent is run on has a resonse lower than it's rating, it acts at the lesser of the two ratings. This lowers the ratings of all it's programs as well.

Questiona: Are agent programs limited by the system ratings of the node they are on, or jsut the response rating? Are agents Systems onto themselves?

When you run an agent with 3 programs on your commlink, is it 1 running program (for the agent) or 4 (For the agent and the three programs)?

Can the Ocular drone be upgraded with pilot program and autosofts? Can I add sensors to it or is it only used for direct Rigger control? The description is a bit vague but as soon as you pop it out is is supposed to function as a the drone and with the capacity it takes up it should have the same storage capacity as the eyeball drone except perhaps for the flashbang (has image of a flashbang going off INSIDE someones head...)

How would Vision enhancements be handled on the ocular drone if I have installed several vision mods o my cybereye, would that carry over to the drone or would it have to be installed separately on the drone (a bit odd since the whole eye pops out)

i would guess you dont realy store a agent with a preloaded set of programs. but what you have is a launch script that basicly load the agent and tell it to load into itself a set of programs available.

still, a agent, complete with kit, can be uploaded to a node.

im leaning towards a run in place kind of enviroment for these things. its something that palm uses/used on their pdas.

basicly the software is running as if their flash area is ram. no need to load into a seperate memory space or anything like that. it can even resume from where you left it no matter how long ago it was.

so when a agent is uploaded its as a ram contruct. this however requires a very abstract way of programing them. something quite similar to .NET or java i think.

basicly you would not be able to point directly to memory addresses as they would change the moment a agent is transferd between nodes.

its as if i hit pause on the execution of a program, and then is able to tell the os to transfer the whole memory content related to that program over to a diffrent machine. and then tell the os on that machine to resume the program from where it was paused. hibernation on steroid or what?!

and to give a deeper explanation of my view of agent and their programs.

a agent is the starting prosess. but each program loaded into the agent is a diffrent thread under the agent.

kill the agent and all threads attached to its prosess is removed.

this indicates to me that programs in SR may have the ability to act both as programs and as librarys

I think the "Payload", p 228, concept is meant for inactive programs with an agent to be loaded as a set.

So loading the agent onto the node is

Hacker Complex Action, Load Agent + Payload
Hacker Complex Action, Run Agent
Then the Agent Acts
Agent Complex Action Runs Program 1, Etc the Agent Loads it's programs.
Hacker hacks as Agent loads.

@DireRadient - I was slow to reply

But he'd stil lbe loading those program onto the user's commlink, slowing it to a halt, but I usppose once you upload the agent they would be gone, so that wouldn't be that bad. Major problem being that any IC running on a node would bring it to its knees.

Given the hierarchy in SYstem, that isn't be the case.

So a Node may look like this? This one has an agent loaded and the response is not lowered. I think.

NODE - Response 4, Signal 4, System 4, Firewall 4

Program 1
- Agent 6 - Response = Node Response, Signal = Node Signal, System = Pilot 6(Node System Limit = 4),
-- Hacking Program 6 (System 4)
-- Common Use Program 6 (4)
-- Program 6 (4)
-- Program 6 (4)

Program 2

Program 3

Program 4

Scenarios
If the Agent runs another program on it's own system, does it affect only it's own response rating, or the entire node?

If the Node runs another program, I assume it affects both it's own Response and the Agents Response.

Apologies if this was asked already, but I didn't want to read all 19 pages.

In vehicle combat, you fire weapons by using your extra passes? Is this how it works?

As I understand it, yes.
It takes a complex action per combat turn to drive a vehicle. So all additional initiative passes you have, you can use for other actions. (using sensors, firing weapons, commanding drones, etc, etc.)

quick Q:
Do you NEED a control rig in order to use drones? or can you just give them commands (like in the captain's chair mode in SR3) see what they see, and let thier built in pilot ratings take care of it??

Indeed, you aren't constricted to the captain's chair mode either.
Captain's Chair is the equivalent to controlling drones via AR now. You can still "jump into" a drone using full VR. Regardless if you have a controll rig or not.

Are full-VR Riggers "visible" as icons to Hackers?

For instance, if a Rigger is controlling a vehicle via "full immersion" VR and a Hacker hacks into the Vehicle, can the hacker "see" the Rigger as an Icon (and thus "crash" the Rigger)? Or perhaps, in full VR, are the Rigger and vehicle computer considered "one" icon, and thus the Hacker must crash the *whole* system to "crash" the Rigger?

On page 158 the rulebook states that drones that pilot themselves have an initiative equal to pilot plus response attributes...

I was not able to find any mention anywhere else in the book of what the reponse attributes are for drones and vehicles. Is it the default value of 3 for electronic device, or does anyone have a better idea?

Ok, this might be a bit silly but I do think it might be worth asking. It clearly states in the magic section that a character who’s magic attribute reaches zero (0) will become unable to use any magic and his active skills becomes knowledge skills. Ok, that’s fine, magic and cyber never liked each other enyway.

With technomancers they give the same usual example and explanation that cyberware & bioware limits resonance EXCEPT the explanation that if their resonance reaches zero they would be unable to use their abilities and that it would become knowledge skills.

Somehow I find it fitting that cybernetics and bioware would interfere with the bioelectronic signal they use to contact the matrix but I find it odd that their brain chemistry would be re-altered so that they would become normal humans again.

One example could be that someone with 1 point of resonance would have the same altered brain as someone with resonance 6, and suddenly, when gaining 1 cyberlimb (a leg for example) their MIND lose the ability to use the matrix like they could before.

What do you think? Should it LIMIT their ability if they reach 0 resonance (ie they must use immersion to raise their ability above 0 before using it). Or should they loose it just like magicians?

just let 'em lose, it. They fried their motherboard (aka brain) and ya can't just install a new brain anytime you want (atleast, not very successfully yet)

As far as why a Res 1 gets fried before a Res 6 - it's a 'hardware compatibility' issue. Your Res 1 fella can't have both the cyber stuff and the special brain setup without one of them frying. Resonance was then defaulted to be the one that fried when the situation occurred. the Res 6 guy has more durable hardware. Sure, you still got some glitches (hence lower rank) but he hasn't crashed and burned yet.

I am slightly confused. Say I have a hacker with augments logic 9 and programs of 4 or 5. Why would I want to spend karma raising skills to 6.

THis has been brought up before. its much better to default to hacking than to actually use it because the rules don't use your logic in any capacity while hacking - so to make your logic matter, you have to have no hacking skill - which is ass-backwards, but for characters with high logic (technomancers, especially) spending BP on hacking skilsl makes you worse.

One interpretation I have seen, however, is that the program rating replaces your attribute for the die roll, so if you're defaulting, you default to program rating -1. THis means that your logic is NEVER used when hacking, however, and makes it a dump-stat for a lot of hackers.

I call this the "hacking trilemma" because there does not seem to be a consistent and non-problematic interpretation to these three questions: (1) is the skill listed as being able to default to a linked attribute? (2) does the character have the skill? (3) does the character have the program?

Probably the easiest way to handle it is to use Linked Attribute - 1 (where Program substitutes for Linked Attribute). This implies that a task cannot be attempted without the proper software tools, which is ok to my mind (after all, one can't use the Pistols skill without holding a pistol either).

The most desirable way to handle it may be to say that one rolls Attribute + Skill + Program (instead of just Skill + Program). This involves a lot of extra work in deciding how to scale up the target numbers proportionately. However, unlike the other solution, it does not do violence to the "simplified" rule system by creating an arbitrary exception to the rules. The problem is that it implies that one can hack without having the appropriate Program, which renders the Technomancer's Threading ability somewhat obsolete.

I was just e-mail someone about this and came up with using att and skill for hits but programs for a limiter on the hits similiar to magic. I think I so this in another thread. I just din't know how logic worked into the picture.

On the device ratings for drones: wouldn´t sec / mil drones like the iBall and Steel Lynx have ratings of 4/5 ? Somehow I can´t imagine a UAV with heavy weapons and only baseline matrix security.

Just because it comes with a stock R3 system doesn't mean anyone ever uses the stock system. Considering that firewall in particular is a program, corps can either code their own or purchase a strong version in bulk.

From a logisitics perspective, it's probably better to buy the drones with the stock OS and then upgrade to your milspec standards rather than have drones with different systems running around.

I mean, buy a computer these days and get on the internet without installing additional software (or ordering additional software along with it). See how long you go virus/intrusion free.

Where do I find the cost for adding Encryption on a Datalock jack? It says 1000+Encryption, but nowhere in the book do they say whay the cost is.

i would belive that you find that cost under programs...

as in, you have made your own encryption program from scratch?
or have one allready bought?

if so then just think of the encryption part as being of cost 0 and be happy