Full Version: Shadowrun 4: Combat & Gear
| QUOTE (Ellery) |
| Is there armor out there that is likely to convert EX ammo damage to stun? Seems as though you'd need armor ratings in the 8-10+ range for that to even be a possibility. Also, since stun condition monitors are shorter than physical for trolls, wouldn't one want to do stun when facing an armored troll? |
Armor Jacket has 8 Ballistic. Full Body Armour has 10. There is no MilSpec armor in the core rules. But yeah, generally speaking, EX ammo as well as APDS is gonna punch right through arfmor and do some nasty damage. But when you're paying 10 Nuyen a bullet before Black Market price markups...
Bull
Is used cyberwear mentioned at all? If so, is it available at chargen?
| QUOTE |
| Armor Jacket has 8 Ballistic. Full Body Armour has 10. There is no MilSpec armor in the core rules. But yeah, generally speaking, EX ammo as well as APDS is gonna punch right through arfmor and do some nasty damage. But when you're paying 10 Nuyen a bullet before Black Market price markups... |
We just need some armored exoskeletons. Oooh...armored exoskeletons...
| QUOTE (Alvorn) |
| Can you explain Dodge further. Between the different posts else where it seems that you have Full Defesne ( always dodging ) and selecting to dodge at the time you are shot. Is this the case ? Whats the penalty for doing this ? |
When it is your action in the Initiative Pass, you can choose to go on Full Defense. This allows you to dodge for the rest of the Pass.
If you did not go on Full Defense already, and still have an initiative pass, you can choose to go on Full Defense, but you sacrifice your next Initiative pass, and you only get to dodge that single attack.
So the latter is really only useful in emergency situations. Like, "Oh my god, he's got a Panther!" Usually you'll want to plan ahead.
Bull
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) | ||
We just need some armored exoskeletons. Oooh...armored exoskeletons... |
Yeah! Let's make them several stories tall too. And then we'll launch some clans into space, and...
Umm. Wait.
Nevermind.
Kerensky is Harlequin.
Bull
I would like to know what are the modifiers for Fullauto and Bursts for the attacker?
Thanks,
PsychoMorph.
Thanks,
PsychoMorph.
| QUOTE (Bull @ Aug 22 2005, 10:05 AM) | ||
Still around. |
Not to seem ungrateful, because i'm not, but detail is gooood.
Does it still reveb forever until the containing barriers bust or it steps down fully for distance? Or does it use a better physics model by not having perfect reflection of energy, counting lots of extra distance for each reflection or limiting the number of reflections? The later making it much easier to calculate the damage by an HE grenade in a small elevator.
P.S. I always thought it particularly silly reflecting shrapnel damage.
| QUOTE (PsychoMorph) |
| I would like to know what are the modifiers for Fullauto and Bursts for the attacker? |
With Wide Bursts, you make the shot harder to dodge by the number of bullets -1 (a 6 round burst lowers the defense by -5 dice). The recoil modifier is similar, but is compensated by recoil compensation. With narrow bursts, it increases the DV of the attack by the number of bullets -1, and has the same recoil modifier.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| is there an AR mode that doesn't add TN mods to physical activities? or does the AR mod not apply to AR-assisted physical activities, such as shooting with a smartlink? |
You don't automatically get AR bonuses for everything you do, only certain things, and that's really GM call as to whether or not you do get a bonus, and what that bonus would be.
Most of the time the bonus is going to be ina situation for readily accessible info downloaded from the Matrix (or uploaded off of chip or something) will directly aid you in your task.
Bull
like say downloading the wireing diagram of a maglock from shadowland when you need to get thru that door NOW!?
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| like say downloading the wireing diagram of a maglock from shadowland when you need to get thru that door NOW!? |
Or the operator manual for a helicopter?
Er, i guess that's getting more into Activesoft for skillwires....
maybe, as most likely the activsoft should incorporate most checklists so that you dont have to look them up and so on.
hmm, why did that make me thing of the operator scene in matrix?
"hacker, i need helicopter piloting"
hmm, why did that make me thing of the operator scene in matrix?
"hacker, i need helicopter piloting"
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| maybe, as most likely the activsoft should incorporate most checklists so that you dont have to look them up and so on. hmm, why did that make me thing of the operator scene in matrix? "hacker, i need helicopter piloting" |
Because that was what i was thinking of. I didn't recall the exact model of chopper though, so i had to leave that which would have made my reference more clear.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||
Because that was what i was thinking of. I didn't recall the exact model of chopper though, so i had to leave that which would have made my reference more clear. |
not sure either.
i belive she said bell, but i dont recall the code.
the design however screamed huey
As i said earlier, right now the rules are pretty light and loose. There will be more involved examples and rules in Unwired whenever that comes out.
Bull
Bull
What is unwired?
the planed book that will be a collection of new gear. think cannon companion, man&machine, matrix and rigger3 all rolled into one 
Is there a list of the planned sourcebooks coming? Unwired, Street Magic.....??
I thought Unwired was the Fourth Edition version of Matrix.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| like say downloading the wireing diagram of a maglock from shadowland when you need to get thru that door NOW!? |
I don't think that's quite relevant.
[ Spoiler ]
*sobs*
Also:
[ Spoiler ]
Ha! I knew it!
What about demolition and damage from various types of explosives? Still inflexible and leaves a person with demo training and a lot of imagination screaming in frustration? Can you finally make your own explosives?
There is nothing that cannot be achieved with plastique, some imagination and indifference to collateral damage.
There is nothing that cannot be achieved with plastique, some imagination and indifference to collateral damage.
What about Fletchette ammunition?
| QUOTE (the_dunner) | ||
I don't think that's quite relevant. [ Spoiler ] |
hmm, sad to hear
| QUOTE (reconsweden) |
| What about demolition and damage from various types of explosives? Still inflexible and leaves a person with demo training and a lot of imagination screaming in frustration? Can you finally make your own explosives? There is nothing that cannot be achieved with plastique, some imagination and indifference to collateral damage. |
from what i have gatherd elsewhere on this forum:
yes, its still ineffective compared to real life...
not likely with only the BBB, most likely coverd in a later sourcebook.
LOL
thats a sig 
| QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Aug 22 2005, 01:55 PM) | ||||
hmm, sad to hear |
Things change.
[ Spoiler ]
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| EDIT: And how would it handle that i'm shooting blind? I've already rolled. Or do i have to declare up front i was trying to hit them? |
Yes, and you apply the blind fire modifier if you couldn't see through the barrier.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| I thought Unwired was the Fourth Edition version of Matrix. |
It is. There are 4 planned books right now: Street magic, Unwired, Augmentation, and Arsenal. The titles for all but Street Magic are still tentative.
Bull
Yeah, that's what I remember from the Origins mp3.
It still strikes me as strange that Unwired would be the last of the four on the release schedule at the time, but that's just me.
It still strikes me as strange that Unwired would be the last of the four on the release schedule at the time, but that's just me.
Every edition of the game, the Matrix sourcebook has come out after the Magic and weapons/cyber expansion books. You could argue that ST and FoF were exceptions, but SSC was out well before both of those.
Yes, but Hacking and wireless tech is now far more ubiquitous than pretty much everything else. Given that, I'd be more interested in having rules and tech to expand that world before anything else.
If my character fights with a Katana and another blade, and has the ambidextrous quality. What are the dice modifiers fighting against one enemy?? And against multiple targets??
At what force does a weapon foci become forbidden?
Are the optional Martial Arts rules now part of the core or will they be presented later in Arsenal?
| QUOTE (White Noise) |
| At what force does a weapon foci become forbidden? |
They are only Restricted. Availability at chargen is Force 2.
Btw, all combat spell formulae are Forbidden.
| QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 22 2005, 08:24 PM) | ||
They are only Restricted. Availability at chargen is Force 2. Btw, all combat spell formulae are Forbidden. |
Excellent, i see a Panther Assult Cannon weapon foci in my PCs future! Sure it is somewhat unwieldy when bashing things on the astral plane, but being able to walk around downtown Seattle with its legality of Restricted should be worth it.
I can see it now...
Lone Star: Freeze! Put down the cannon!
Runner: Hey, this is a weapon focus! I have a license for it!
Lone Star: Awe, drek! Well, frag it. Let's just shoot him and get it over with. We'll say he was waiving it in a threatening manner.
Runner: Hey! Wait a minute...
Lone Star: Freeze! Put down the cannon!
Runner: Hey, this is a weapon focus! I have a license for it!
Lone Star: Awe, drek! Well, frag it. Let's just shoot him and get it over with. We'll say he was waiving it in a threatening manner.
Runner: Hey! Wait a minute...
I would rule that the availability of the form the focus takes carries over when it is made into a focus.
Btw, all foci are Restricted.
Btw, all foci are Restricted.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Yes, but Hacking and wireless tech is now far more ubiquitous than pretty much everything else. Given that, I'd be more interested in having rules and tech to expand that world before anything else. |
True. And I agree. But I also realize that it's going to take a lot longer to produce Unwired than any other book, since by and large the rest are going to be mostly conversions and compilations from the earlier edition. Unwired is going to be almost completely new.
So, while Unwired gets worked on, may as well have a couple folks whip up the rest of the books and get them out so the fans can kill time while waiting for it
I'm really only being a tad snarky here
I'm not entirely sure what the sitch is with the writing, but I suspect that may be part of it. Plus IIRC, Rob said in the Origins seminar that he was considering trying to move Unwired up and get it out earlier if possible. But it will likely be the most difficult of the 4 to write and produce.Bull
I've been reading the SR4 forum for some time now, but had always been too lazy to go through the hassle of registration before today. I guess I felt like I didn't have any question that hadn't been addressed already and nothing really worth adding as I had no priviledged information about what was going on with the new edition.
However, there are a few questions that are burning my tongue. (My apologies if they have already been answered, but I usually DO read pretty much everything before I post in any forum and I couldn't find the info I'm looking for.)
First, how does two-weapons melee combat work? Both with and without the ambidexterity edge (if it has made it into SR4)...
Second, how about firing two pistols or two SMG's at the same time?
Third, how does recoil works now that TN's are fixed? (Or burst-fire / full auto, for that matter?)
And fourth, although it's equally a magic question, it also relates to combat: Does the Adept power Improved Ability add dice to Attribute+Skill and is there any limit on how many dice can be added in this way?
If anyone could shed some light on these matters, it'd help me not go completely nuts while waiting for the pdf... Thanks!
However, there are a few questions that are burning my tongue. (My apologies if they have already been answered, but I usually DO read pretty much everything before I post in any forum and I couldn't find the info I'm looking for.)
First, how does two-weapons melee combat work? Both with and without the ambidexterity edge (if it has made it into SR4)...
Second, how about firing two pistols or two SMG's at the same time?
Third, how does recoil works now that TN's are fixed? (Or burst-fire / full auto, for that matter?)
And fourth, although it's equally a magic question, it also relates to combat: Does the Adept power Improved Ability add dice to Attribute+Skill and is there any limit on how many dice can be added in this way?
If anyone could shed some light on these matters, it'd help me not go completely nuts while waiting for the pdf...
Thanks!
| QUOTE |
| First, how does two-weapons melee combat work? Both with and without the ambidexterity edge (if it has made it into SR4)... Second, how about firing two pistols or two SMG's at the same time? |
You split your dice pool for each weapon. If you're using two diff weapons with two different skills (ex. An SMG and a Pistol), you use the smaller of the two pools. Recoil penalties apply to both weapons (see below). If you do not have Ambidexterity, your off hand weapon suffers a further -2 to the dice pool.
| QUOTE |
| Third, how does recoil works now that TN's are fixed? (Or burst-fire / full auto, for that matter?) |
Each bullet past the first gives a -1 die penalty. Each point of recoil comp eliminates one penalty point.
| QUOTE |
| And fourth, although it's equally a magic question, it also relates to combat: Does the Adept power Improved Ability add dice to Attribute+Skill and is there any limit on how many dice can be added in this way? |
It adds dice to you dice pool, and you can never add more dice from Improved Ability than you have in your base skill. So if you have Pistols 3, you can only get up to 3 extra dice from Improved Ability: Pistols.
Bull
I wonder if the person defending has to split their dice pools too when defending...
| QUOTE (Alvorn) |
| I wonder if the person defending has to split their dice pools too when defending... |
Nope. So you are going to want to either have lots of dice or for them to have lots of penalties going into an attack like this.
Firearms is a little easier, so long as they aren't Dodging, since they only get Reaction to defend with.
Either way, it's a lot harder to wield two weapons than one, and it shows.
Bull
| QUOTE (Bull) | ||
Nope. So you are going to want to either have lots of dice or for them to have lots of penalties going into an attack like this. Firearms is a little easier, so long as they aren't Dodging, since they only get Reaction to defend with. |
Interesting rule interaction; if the defender hadn't gone into Full Defense and choose to Dodge when the two weapon weilder attacks do they get to use Dodge only opposing the first weapon or only for the second weapon, at the defender's choice? The late choice Dodge isn't allowed for multiple attacks, but does each hand count as a fully separate attack?
P.S. Related question, when does the defender have to make the late Dodge choice by? Before or after they know all the options the attacking is using, and perhaps how many approx. dice the attacker is rolling? Can the defender choose after the attacker decides to use an option like Edge as part of the pool? How about if the attacker elects to activate Edge dice after the initial attack roll, can the choice to Dodge be made then?
| QUOTE (Bull) |
| There are 4 planned books right now: Street magic, Unwired, Augmentation, and Arsenal. |
What about Runner Havens?
I've thought the release schedule had been changed to have this out as the first SR4 sourcebook, before Street Magic?
Setting book, not a supplement.
| QUOTE (Bull) |
| It is. There are 4 planned books right now: Street magic, Unwired, Augmentation, and Arsenal. The titles for all but Street Magic are still tentative. |
I notice no rigging book. Is Rob trying to avoid invoking the curse?
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