Wouldn't the combat glasses quote be a little painful and uncomfortable for both parties?

judging from the fact that bigger prothetics are made today, I imagine the Pain Induce Quote much more ugly in the same contexts.

Since no one else seems to have mentioned it so far...

As well as the Fichetti Pain Inducer and the Monofilament Chainsaw, there is one another amusing new piece I can't recall seeing before:

The Elephant Rifle.

Two barrel, break-action rifle that does more damage than either of the core-book sniper rifles, although its armor penetration is worse. And you can fire both barrels together for even more damage!

What's more, it's only Restricted, while the sniper rifles are Forbidden. Why do I get the feeling that a lot more shadowrunners are now going to have "Really Big Game Hunting" knowledge skills?

I was running a 2-gunfu type with paired SuperWarhawks. Well, he referred to them as BFRs: Biggest, Finest, Revolvers. Right now, in the real world, Magnum Research makes BFR's in .44, .45, .454, and the horrifying .500 and .45-70. The last two are almost half-again as powerful as the 454. And holy god, is the .500 a big gun. The range I belong to has one availabe for rent.

These massive examples of machismo actually serve a purpose: self defense from bears and other large predators you may encounter when hunting or on safari in the bush. My character's story was he left London "for his health," ended up in North Africa bodyguarding some rich folks on safari and kept the BFRs as part of his payment before he migrated around to Hong Kong and then Seattle.

Now switch it to 2070 where you have meta-tigers, shapeshifters, and drakes out there.

From this particularly informative thread by Talia:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=9582

Barghest, devil rat, ghoul, hell hound, merrow, naga, sasquatch, thunderbird, vampire, wendigo, spirit of: air, beasts, earth, fire, man, water, watchers, eastern and western dragons, feathered serpents, leviathans and great dragon mods.

This is where that Big Game Hunting Knowsoft comes in handy.

Since technically any hiker in the back country "drops by unexpected" as far as the bear is concerned, bears are a threat. Bad karma can mean that a group of nature-friendly, granola eating hippy-types venturing into remote areas walk around a tree and find Mama Bear and her three cubs. If these are 60's ultra-peacenik hippy icons you'd see on TV they offer the Bear some weed, get eaten, and possibly get the bears high. If these are rational hippies that want to live, they speak softly and slowly raise their arms out to the sides to look less like other animals, staying low to look short, avoid eye contact, and draw one of these BFRs while praying they don't need to pull the trigger.

Most people, including park rangers, in those areas would carry a rifle. Rifles, however, are hunting weapons suitable for use at range. This alone can get you in trouble with some rangers or property owners who think you are poaching. Alternately, someone else could be poaching and you get blamed for it. A BFRevolver is pretty much useless for hunting at ranges beyond 100 yards. Even if you've got it sighted in at 100 yards, at 50 yards you've got ~3" of loft. Besides, the slug of a .500/454/45-70 is significantly different from that of a .30-06, .300 magnum or many of the typical hunting rifles. As long as your BFR doesn't have a scope, you probably aren't hunting.

But I digress a bit. Shadowrunners are quite likely to be asked to go gallivanting around the wilderness for many reasons. Guard duty for smugglers, helping the mage quest for some talismongering, a classic bug hunt, making a run on a facility whose primary defense is isolation, etc.

Many such tasks are legal, or at least sufficiently legal that a fake SIN can manage the licenses, giving you justification for your BFR and possibly some of your cyber.

Or, failing that, relatively convincing fake licenses are affordable and not too difficult to get.

Maybe, maybe not. The last we heard of the Captain was that his matrix identity had survived, but was looking at a
DELETE? [Y/N]
prompt.

When the somebody asks you if you want to delete yourself, say NO!

I think the old way were the second shot would recieve the uncompencated modifiers from the first shot was good, but I do think that is not the case anymore. Try reading the rules for recoil like you didn´t know about the former mechanics:

Wouldn´t you say that it seems pretty clear then? You would never think the recoil from the first shot carried over to the second if that was not the case in previous editions.

Just print off the example i started and Rob finished. It covers all the stuff.

Well, it'd be more like "If your character is that messed up, all he can manage to do is move around. He can't run; the best he can manage is walking speed."

I recall doing the math on an SR3 bow fired by a Giant (Troll variant subrace) with max strength. If he could fire one arrow and hit a target at his maximum range every combat turn (3 seconds), then his projectiles would have to be breaking the sound barrier.

So basically you're looking at a slim supersonic missile. Be sure to Dikote the thing so you can take on tanks.

.... With your BOW.

EDIT: Curiosity got the best of me, and yep travelling 1100 meters in 3 seconds is just slightly supersonic. With the inclusion of additional initative passes, one has to wonder when sanity should clear its throat and speak up.

Partial incorrect. The 'cracker', or thin string at the end of the bullwhip, breaks the sound barrier not the whip itself. Secondly there is a difference between a small piece of string and a carbon arrow shaft (the substance most commonly used today in hunting arrows due to its resilliance and the fact it does not warp) and possibly a exploding tip on the arrow or at the very least a steel broadhead.

And considering most bows today you'll see people firing with speeds of 280fps to a bit over 300fps and the sheer damage they can do at those speeds...breaking the sound barrier with a arrow would inflict a great deal of dammage.

Exactly. The game also does fun stuff to archery if your troll has 4 initiative passes.

At some point, artillery rules and delay-until-impact considerations have to be used when you're talking about that sort of range.

Well you start getting into areodynamic concerns at tha point. But those asside.

Yes most of the arrows energy is not tranfered with impact. You want a razor sharp blade and a wide cutting diamiter (assuming the head is areodynamic enough not to throw accuracy off and at the speeds we're talking mechanical broadheads, as they stand now, are simply not a option). Most arrow damage is done through internal bleeding. That said, a arrow moving at super sonic speeds is going to go right through a person shredding anything in its path, and partialy into the guy behind him..or into the wall...or pin the original guy to the wall (depending on where it hits) ala scorpion king style.

And yes there are modern bows that can shoot upwards of 700fps. Crossbows and the like also shoot a bit faster but you're also talking 100+lb pulls. The bows I was refering too are 70-80lb pulls. And those, even for strong people, are very hard to pull back untill you build up the correct muscles. Yes you use alot different muscles pulling back a bowstring, so sure you may be able to bench 400lbs that doesn't nessecarily mean you can pull back 80 on a bow much less hold it there for 2+ mins while your target moves to a position you can shoot .

Fancy that, just like a bullet.

So will a normal hunting broadhead at 300fps, although I'm not sure if "shredding" is the right word. "Slicing" or "cutting" might be closer for much of the soft tissue.

Since modern cam bows with 80lb pull weights still don't tend to get much higher than the high 300's, around 400 at the highest, I kinda doubt you could get to 700fps, even with very light arrows, even if the pull weight was well over 100lbs. 700fps takes ~3 times as much energy to achieve as 400fps, and there will be much less time to deposit that energy on the arrow. Still, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if someone managed to build some kind of freak bow just to get to 700fps.

Some of the old Sioux bows were 300lbs just had a very short stroke. And some crossbows I believe can get up in that range (most modern ones can't however).

Oh and the bleeding bit. They're far more effective at that than any bullet. compare what, a 7.62mm diamiter cartridge to a 2" cutting diamiter of some modern broad heads. And ushualy its either a Y cut or a X cut (depending on 3 or 4 blades, the two most common configurations).

But yeah with 300fps being able to get complete passthrough on a 28-30" arrow (not including broadhead) using a deer as a target (assuming good shot placement too) and the amount of internal damage that can cause I'd shudder to think of the results of a supersonic one . Actualy the person probably wouldn't notice it, just like bears don't figuiring it to be a bee sting...till well they notice their clothes are soaked with blood and pass out

I was simply pointing out that all lethal penetrating projectiles count either on causing a loss of blood pressure or damaging the CNS for killing people, because, well, that's the only way a human being can be killed.

But you might want to revise that statement a bit. A 7.62x51mm bullet can fragment upon hitting a human being, tearing a number of small wounds into surrounding tissue, and the pressures involved will rip that flesh all open, resulting in an actual wound diameter as large as 10-15cm across. And, if you really want to compare with all bullets, I'm thinking a .460 Weatherby Magnum SP would beat that by quite a margin. Or how about a nice .50 BMG frangible...

The actual diameter of the bullet is closely matched with the diameter of the resulting wound when you've got solid bullets with either round (at lower velocities) or sharp spitzer (at higher velocities) points, the bullet doesn't tumble, and penetrates mostly very flexible tissues. Often happens in the military, and when people use handguns with poor ammunition for the job. Happens rarely (unless the ammunition malfunctions) when hunting or using a firearm for defense.

The results would be exactly the same. Unless the arrows break upon hitting the deer, you'd get a wound that looks almost exactly like the one with the 300fps arrow.

They might, they might not. The way the nervous system reacts to such sudden injuries is difficult, if not impossible, to predict.

Yes, I suppose it's possible that the leading edge of the blades would be moving fast enough to tear the tissue instead of cutting it, but you'd still be left with an X- or Y-shaped wound about 2" in diameter. With a very sharp angle at the leading edge and extremely thin blades, at a velocity as "low" as ~1000-1500fps, the "sideways ejection" of tissue will be insignificant and will lead to no real increase in the size of the wound. To make use of this effect, you' have to use a round-nosed or blunted arrow -- which would be a horrible idea because of other considerations.

Bones might be damaged over a larger area, or even be "shattered" to an extend, with a supersonic arrow, that is true. However, considering how rarely that is an issue with rifle shots, I doubt it would really matter with arrows.

... So, yes, in response to your question, troll archers are indeed "teh scaree."

SYL