You'll note that I said that G "obviously hasn't read the sourcebook very well," because otherwise he would have known that most SR mages would never debase themselves by living in the forest, let alone permit themselves to be taught by a bunch of smelly animals. I don't know what changes, if any, have been made to the mage's backstory because I left right as G was mentioning the bears.

Also, please take note of my new sig.

EDIT: Once again, Emo beat me on the initiative pass.
EDIT2: You know what? Even if the "raised by bears" thing isn't true, I wouldn't be surprised if G's character pretended that it was true.

When I talk about spell-slingers, I'm distinguishing between mages, who follow the Hermetic tradition, and shamans, who follow the Shamanic tradition. As I understand it, a shaman, unlike a mage, would be quite happy to hang out with smelly animals.

One last thing before I go to bed: anyone can keep on posting in here with my blessing as long as they keep it civil. That means no flaming, boys and girls. Good night!

Here on Dumpshock, we go from one feud to another. I was happy to see the vitriol between Brahm and Cain finally calm down for a while.

Heaven forbid we have a moment's peace here.

I just don't get how "down to earth" matters in an RPG with magic, cyberware, technomancers and kraken beasts that plug up major bridges with some regularity. Your idea of "down to earth" is the same way that the psycho religous people who believe that men were not meant to fly are "down to earth." Denying possibility does not mean that you are "down to earth."

That said, many people seem to like to limit SR to William Gibson with magic. Yes, I know that's a sort of loyalty to the progenitor of the genre, but frankly, his stories, while brilliantly written, would be boring as hell to play out, and the whole "break into corporate facility steal its toys" thing feels too much like a pattern for me to want to GM it.

To use a rather crude metaphor, emo, I think that part of the thing that people have against your campaigns is that you tend to put your moneyshot out front.

Check out the Threats book sometime. They've got some pretty sinister things in there.

It just seems like you're putting out the End Game up front, and, well. I don't know. Again, diff'rent strokes and all that, but it might be worth trying a regular campaign some time.

However, I think you might get some mileage out of something along the lines of a Sec Team on an orbital facility having to deal with a sudden incursion of horrors aboard the station. You might want to have a mix of the two types. Find a middle ground, so that you don't end up with every run having the potential to radically impact a good chunk of the world.

I'm just talking, here. You've got people who like your campaign as is. I just think that you ought to try to mix it up. Or in this case, mix it down.

Yeah it's almost like those lethal weapon 3 and 4 movies

Big explosions at the start ruin the whole story and make it less action

you get your boomage orgasm out first and the rest of the film you are too spent to care.

</sarcasm>

Trust me, whatever I run first will NOT be the climax of the campaign.

I'm thinking of things in the classical plot structure kind of things. With a rising action, a climax, and a falling action.

If you start the story off with Billy the Cyberzombie Dragon? You're going to be suspending a lot of belief when it comes time for the campaign to culminate.

Feel free to point out the classic 'Game With Elves and Magic And Dragon' response.

Heck, look at Johnny Mnemonic. I admit to having some pretty bad taste, but a hacking dolphin? Yaaaaargh.

He was in the original story, and in light of the fact that the Soviets were training dolphins to put dynamite on ships, him having a squid and being addicted to drugs in order to ensure his loyalty to the navy is not farfetched at all.

I'm aware that dolphins are actually used for, y'know, some pretty bizarre stuff. Even if it was a rumor, the whole idea of Lethal Dart Shooting Dolphins is not so out there that I'm immediately going to discount it.

And the idea of teaching a dolphin to do tricks in its native element isn't too far fetched, either. The bomb thing? Totally plausible, in my mind.

In SR terms? The most plausible method I could think of would involve one hell of a reality filter and, well. A lot of dead dolphins and a lot of money spent on something that you could do with a person for a lot cheaper, a lot faster, so on, so forth.

You see, this is why I think that campaign ideas should be measured objectivly on the "Nadja's nipples" scale. On one side of the scale is Dunkie's unfortunate death. On the other side is Dunkie's return as a cyberzombie. Ideas that fall on the Dunkie is dead side are okay. Ideas that fall on the Dunkie is a cyberzombie side may be pushing it.

There are some points in the canon metaplot that are way, way out there. Talon Ccanneling Lowfyr, for example. Some are slightly less out there but pushing it Some can be salvaged with creative fanwankery, like Twist performing a Great Ghost Dance to fight off Spider. But the vast majority of them do fall within the commonly held and apparently intended scope of the game, which is something short of epic high magic and godslaying.

Many of the Enemy metaplot stories walk the razor's edge of unadulterated fanservice. They are like an extended version of the Plastic Little bath scene directed at all the Earthdawn lovers out there. A few others works are the textbook definition of excess power escalation.

Purists really can't complain about such excesses in someone's game because they do appear in canon, but individuals with common sense can complain about repeating past mistakes rather than learning from them. This kind of stuff doesn't work very well for most SR fans and most SR players are SR fans. Hence, the Naja's nipples test. Beware the excess of the Dragonheart Trllogy and be sure never to repeat them.

Dude. It was Gibson. Do not question the Gibson.

And the dolphin was a creation of prewar governments; governments don't tend to care about needless expenditures.

Plastic Little?

Plastic Little is an anime movie in which the crew of a (improbably well armed) ship that captures exotic animals to sell to pet stores gets tangeled up in a plot to build a superweapon and has to save the world.

It is notable for a scene in which the two female protagnists take a long bath together, for no apparent reason. The ship's bathroom is huge and elaborate but it is difficult to pay attention to the fixtures since the protagnists are plainly shown washing each other and playfully comparing breast size for no apparent reason.

That whole anime is practically nothing but fanservice. I think it says it all that the DVD has a "jiggle counter".

As for Gibson, his influence wasn't that extensive. I think they got a lot more things from books like Hardwired, by Walter Jon Williams, than they ever did from Gibson. Although Gibson is the one who gave us Molly's gun, which inspired the ever-controversial Ares Viper Slivergun.

Johnny Mnemonic is a decent short story, but it doesn't stretch out enough to make a movie - add in Keanu Reeves' flat acting and the cliched Dolph Lundgren character that they padded it out with, and you have a pretty forgettable movie.

No, she's real.

And I think the idea that Shadowrun isn't that based off of Gibson isn't true. Half the tech and terminology fom Shadowrun, datajacks, electrodes, 3-d Matrix, sliverguns, cyberdecks (yes, they call them that), nuyen, coffin motels, chameleon suits, razorgirls/boys, etc. etc. are from Neuromancer and Johnny Mnemonic.

Then again, I haven't read HardWired, but the resemblance to the Sprawl saga is too perfect.

When Gravity Fails (and the sequels) are much better.

Pun damage is worse than both stun AND physical.

Yeah, but it wasn't even a well-crafted pun. I'd be ashamed if, ya know, I had shame.

Anyway, I do want to reiterate, Emo, that the potential enjoyment of a campaign is not automatically in direct proportion to its powerscale. Dissonance's analogy fit well, I thought.

Just keep in mind that "bigger" is not inherently "better" -- in fact, it usually means "more out of control." That's something that some GMs eventually learn to cut down on as they gain experience.

It's not the destination; it's the journey, yeah?

I agree with you guys, but until emo comes on here saying that he's not having fun with his campaigns, or has some kind of complaint about them, you're just wasting breath. And until that happens, well, there's not really a problem, is there?
Granted, emo's games are nothing like I'd run, but he's having fun. And, at least so far, so are his players. Perhaps as his campaign goes on, this advice will become extremely relevant, perhaps not, but even if it does you'll just have to repeat yourselves then.

Come on, guys. This is FanGirl's thread. If I'd wanted to read everybody debating the merits of emo's game & how he runs it, I would read emo's dedicated campaign thread.

I'm not trying to start anything. I'm just really looking forward to reading about her experiences & the fun she's having.

Could we please get back to focusing on her & her character & her experience? Please?

Fair enough; no further preaching from me here.

fangirl is really collecting the admirers

I see FG as more of an earnest reporter, dutifully embedded in the maddening uncertainty of the front lines for our benefit.

Carry on, intrepid soul.

okay Clark

It would indeed be pushing it to assume everyone thinks like I do; I would in fact hate it if everyone thought like I did.

And as for doing things for the sake of feeling good, 1/2 of the posts on Dumpshock are masturbatory; it's just that some of us are more public about it than others.

To late.

In my next run i will have fluffy awakend flesh eating plants with ruthenium mecha shiva rigs. Kind of like my little shop o' horror, but more awesome, 'cause they can walk on their monowire roots .

edit: sorry, hadn't realized this was FGs thread. I think Emo should not read it, anyways .

Are those eucalyptus plants? Because if so, they are going to be screwed when I bring in drop bears.

But the thing is, how would drop bears be a threat? Astrally projecting mage+manabolt= dead drop bear.

They will be flesh eating newcalyptus plants. Since they practice a form of blood magic by eating metahumans, the nesting dropbears will be thrice as big as normal ones.

I think they call that essence-draining. Since they have to spend about 2 essence to get Mechashiva and they lose essence over time, they'll technically be cyberzombie eucalyptus plants. They'll generate a background count and frighten off their fellow eucalyptus plants.

Emo, these nice men in white are here to take you back in your room.

NO!!! THE EUCALYPTUS PLANTS ARE EVIL AND ONLY I CAN SEE THEM!!!!!!!

O...M...F...G. Look out Drop Bears there's a new kid in town.

I'm going to have to up my entries per page setting if my "page 12" guess is going to have any chance of standing up.

Fangirl, don't read this.

If it's a eucalyptus skirt, you are so dead. Drop bears are EVERYWHERE.

Adam likes to feel the breeze between his knees?

Nah, just the clamping of the drop bear's horrible, horrible maw.

You... you read it... Oh well. I have another idea.

MECHASHIVA EUCALYPTUS TREE!!!

YELLING NONSENSE WORDS!

IAA IAA CTHULHU FTHAGN!