Adept Improved Reflexes

Before it cost:

Level 1 was 2 power points

Level 2 was 3 power points

Level 3 was 5 power points

It now costs:

Level 1 was 1.5 power points

Level 2 was 2.5 power points

Level 3 was 4 power points


Next there is

Improved Physical Attribute

Before it cost:

1 power point per level

and 2 power points per level over natural maximum

It now costs:

.75 power point per level

and 1.5 power points per level over natural maximum



As you find more list away thanks.

Escaping certain Death now expressly suggests that characters should be out of action for the scenario.

Device Attributes like Firewall, System, Signal and Response can only be upgraded to +2 of the original rating. As Pilot is expressly treated like System, that would include it as... it sure limits Ultrawideband Radar to 1km range max.

Deycryption now uses Electronic Warfare + Decrypt.

When using a Track program, your DP is reduced by the Trackee's Stealth program rating. It's about time.

attribut improvement conts "new rating"*5 karma instead of *3

cya
Tycho

The Intervall for object resistance is 1,2,4,6+ instead of 1,2,3,4+.

Direct combat spells now have an additional drain value of +1 per used net hit

Recalculating every existing character... yay.

Seriously?

Tell me they are just three weeks early.

Last year they were a day late and nobody was laughing.

These are major changes. Like SR4.5 changes.

They better be an April Fools.

so no more turning a low grade comlink into a cheap fairlight knockoff?

So everyone is getting pooched here... mages just a bit more.

Costs.....Old...New
Magic 2...6......10
Magic 3...9......15
Magic 4...12....20
Magic 5...15....25
Magic 6...18....30
Magic 7...21....35

All this change will accomplish is making everyone be high-attribute, low-skill monkeys.

I will need to talk with my GM.

Yikes. Those are some major changes for what I thought was just a fancy print-run.

Actually, no. It'll encourage (a bit at least) rising skills instead of attributes. And the cap on the amount of BP/karma you're allowed to spend on stats at character generation will help too with that goal.

Funny, all the tables I've played on have been using that 5*rating rule (or rating²) since SR4 came out.

Don't you mean high skill, low attribute?

I like this change in the cost of attributes, and I like it a lot. Raising attributes was always the first and usually the only thing my PCs did with their karma. If you were a Magician, raising your Magic was almost always, far and away, the best karma investment across the board. For shooters, it's Agility. For Faces, it's Charisma.

And then there was Edge. Say your Elf Rigger has Pilot Ground Vehicles 5, Edge 2. In SR4, Raising the skill would have cost 10, raising the attribute 9. Edge was clearly the better investment. Even if it was a matter of raising Edge from 4 to 5 for 15, Edge's versatility almost always made it the better investment.

Now, with SR4A, that's not nearly so clear cut. Now maxing a stat out at character creation starts looking more sensible.

Including a table listing these changes in SR4A would have been very handy.

That seems to be the point of said rule - as well as preventing you from putting a Rating 6 Firewall on everything.

There will be an errata/changes reference document posted at some point in the not-too-distant future.

Other changes that have yet to be mentioned include: the combat mechanics of cover (now a defensive modifier), sensors (which now have ratings and can take a limited number of mods), bow ratings and damage have been capped (though can still be impressive), customized cyberlimbs and advanced skills from Street Magic and Arsenal have been incorporated into the core rules.

I made my post from the perspective that during character creation, it would be better to have as high of attributes as possible and buy up your skills later. Thus you avoid the impending crush of cost later on with attributes.

It'll certainly encourage skill increases during game play.

At the same time, it won't help the disparity between magic advancement and mundane advancement.

Like back in SotA64, the Adept Power Improved Ability now supports Vehicle Skills, again.

Likewise, Kinesics is capped to Level 3.


Is the Damage Limit to x1.5 rating rule intended to cap the DV increase through Hits? That would be a slippery slope...

I'm really confused about moving Cover to the Defense test, since it now means that when shooting at an unaware target, it doesn't matter whether he's standing in the middle of the street, or 90% obscured by a passing bus. Can you clue us in on why this way changed?

I can think of two good reasons. One it reduces the you have 0 dice roll situation a bit, and two cast manaball, 3 people have varying cover, roll....

Adding dice is just flat out easier than saying oh against him I roll 6 dice, him I only had 4 dice, and that dude i get my full 8 dice.

Perhaps it would have been to easy just to go from -0 for plain sight, -2 for partial cover, -4 for good cover to -6 for full cover/blind attack. The latter still is an attack modifier...

That is still the case for visibility modifiers.

Maybe, but I've seen too many characters built with overly crappy stats because it was so cheap to raise. I just gotta survive a couple runs then my agility will be better and I'll reign supreme. Bleh.

The ranged combat Range Modifiers are now -0/-1/-3/-6.

Oh, and you may get the cover dice even if you are unaware fo the attack. I'm not sure on this since the unaware penalty says one thing then the opening paragraph says another. Basically the opening paragraph says even stationary or inanimate object may get a defense pool if they have cover, then unaware target mod says unaware targets can't defend.

I'm also still a bit unsure of how cover works vs non-direct combat spell AoEs. If Sam targets Bob who is not behind cover and nails bob with 0 scatter, what happens to Homer and jane who are both behind cover. Does the answer differ if Homer is behind cover in relation to Sam but not the grenade, and Jane is behind cover in relation to the grenade but not Sam. What If a previously unknown Frank is behind cover in relation to both Sam and the grenade.

As I read it the only one getting a defense roll is Bob. everyone else just gets a soak damage roll.

Side note, grenades do not increase in damage from extra successes past bringing the scatter to 0.

Statistically adding 3 dice to one pool or removing 3 dice from the opposing pool is statistically identical, except in the case where one pool would be reduced to 0 or fewer dice.

Don't forget about how removing dice increases the chance for a critical failure. Though since I have not read everything that may have changed as well.

..or the case where there is no oposing dice pool - like, you know, when attacking unaware targets with cover.
Unteil the cover-exception to that rule, of course...

Why would you bother doing that? Do you go through every character every time errata is released? Seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of reward to me. Just continue playing the character, but use the new calculations henceforth. Or heck, don't use the new calculations until you start your next game/character. Or don't use them at all. *shrug*

What about Missions characters then?

I don't recall anyone saying the 20th Anniversary Edition was anything other than a pretty new SR4 core rulebook with new layout, existing errata included and maybe some new art.

These are major functional changes to the way the system works. Exactly like the DnD 3.5 'update'.

How long have these been in playtesting? Did anybody canvas the user base to see if they felt these changes were necessary or justified?

I haven't even seen it yet but it is already leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I sure as heck ain't paying to have a bunch of major rules changes I didn't ask for foisted on me.

Can someone that has the PDF check the Category header for Health spells and the Critter entry for Spirits to see if there have been any changes there?

No ones forcing you to use those updated rules in you game.Same as any other errata.

To keep the characters as close to RAW as possible.

Yes.

If only playing in a closed campaign, this seems like a silly chore indeed. However, there is another aspect, most likely foreign to the gamer community in the US (appart from the Missions concept):

In Germany, there are lots of small rpg conventions over the year, featuring mostly open, free (both as in beer and speech) adventures from voluntary GMs - and it is usual that you can play your own, existing characters you bring to the table... pending GM approval, of course. It is the same for most german speaking online plays.
Thus, the common baseline is current RAW and the trust that the presented characters conform to it.


As noted, Missions will be an exception.

I'll say again.

Missions.

They'll be the de facto rules on Dumpshock within six months. So, as I only get to play on here, yes I will be forced to use them.

That's not new. See old BBB pg. 220.

On that same vein, the book now lists "N/A" as the Data Search Threshold for "Protected or Secret" information. Now all those "Hacker does all the legwork" people can be quiet.

Speed is now a factor in Chase Combat. For every 20 Speed points that a vehicle is slower than its opponent, it receives a -1 DP modifier (pg. 170).

Neat. Don't know how I missed that.

Uh, here's something that's guaranteed to be controversial.

SR4A, pg. 204.

"Direct Combat spells involve channeling mana directly into a
target as destructive and damaging energies rather than generating a
damaging effect. Affecting the target’s being on this fundamental level
with raw mana requires more focus and more power than producing
basic effects; as a result every net hit used to increase the damage value
of a Direct Combat spell also increases the Drain DV of the spell by +1."

So now, Mana Bolt, Force 5, with 4 net hits, burns the caster with a Drain DV of 6.

Yep. This pleases me.

That may be new in the table - but overall, it's old new, the rules already said so.

Tashiro: Really? Direct Combat spells were already underpowered. This nerfs the magician almost completely.

Hold the phone!
You thought Stunbolt and Stunball were underpowered? I disagree. Pre 4.5(an accurate name), mages I play with would just cast force 10, get a least one net hit and you hit the sack. They would take 1-2 points physical drain and then first aid it off.
In my game, we make people eat a slice a gouda if the cast them more than once per session. Cheese for Cheese baby.

I love the new rule.

Underpowered? Stunbolt was horrifically efficient, especially if you overcast it, since the drain damage could be first aided away so easily. A mage with a spellcasting and magic of 5, and logic and willpower of 5 (all of which are average to below average for a PC spellcaster), casting a force 10 stunbolt was going to lay out pretty much anyone with no counterspelling, and would take an average of 1 box of physical damage, which he could then fix with a First Aid kit, in a single complex action.

I think you mistake direct combat spells with indirect combat spells.

direct combat spells were totally overpowered, because you could easily make 8+ damage with almost no drain.

cya
Tycho

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean the caster could just take the number of success necessary to cast / affect the target and ignore the rest?

IE: You cast a Force 10 Stunbolt at Joe Enemy-Sam. You get 5 successes. You take one. Joe Enemy-Sam now has to take 10 stun. You resist drain normally and don't have to worry about the extra successes.

If you have to take ALL rolled successes, that will greatly suck.

The problem is, "How do you know you only need one? " You would have to take as many as you think you need before they roll to resist. And I think they get extra dice for modifiers on resistance now. I don't have a copy yet, thats just from reading the shock.

Quiet, you! You're making SENSE! There's no making sense on Dumpshock!

No, it's about net hits.

Only for fixed groups, see above.

Go find Cain and try and tell him that.

That raises an interesting question in my book, in regards to RAI and RAW. Firstly, this intends to say that the mage can find out he beat someone on a resistance test, and THEN add hits to his test? (As stated, drain is determined by NET hits) Or does he choose the total hits first, then the individual resists? If they resist fully, mage takes F/2 (for Stunbolt, min 1) and that's it? If they don't resist fully, does the mage then choose the number of NET hits to apply (and thus choose his drain)? Does he only choose the hits BEFORE the resistance test? Or does he get no choice whatsoever and whatever the net hits are add to his drain to resist?

The word "used" does not necessarily imply choice.

As p. 183 "Step 5:Determine Effects" says: "The spellcaster can always choose
to use less than the total number of hits rolled in a Spellcasting Test."

for some unknowable reason, indirect spells are now dodged/resisted/whateveryouwannacallit with reaction + counterspelling (previously counterspelling added to the damage soak test). they are also explicitly blocked by physical objects in between the magician and the target, which will cause the spell to detonate, and by magical barriers (potentially).

I agree that Overcasting made direct spells a problem. But Overcasting was the problem, not direct combat spells. The better fix is to change overcasting drain codes to divide force by 1, not 2, and to still cause Physical damage. Now Overcasting drain is a real deterrent.

Direct combat spells in SR4 (not SR4A) were underpowered compared to other ways of killing people, like firearms. A magician casts Manabolt, force 5, with 10 dice against a target with Willpower 3. On the average, 2 net hits, for seven points of damage. That's average - if the magician rolls one hit worse, and the target one hit better, the spell fails. Also remember that there are no negative modifiers that might apply to the Willpower roll, but the Spellcasting roll takes negative modifiers from light, smoke, cover, wounds, maintaining other spells, etc. The Spellcasting roll takes a complex action, and then the magician saves against drain. With a dice pool of 9 or 10 to save against drain, his odds are good, but something like one time out of three, he'll take some or all of the damage, and that can add up.

The above assumes no Counterspelling. Add four or five Counterspelling dice, and the odds get even worse for our magician.

Compare that to a Face with a Predator, dice pool 10 (Pistols 4, Agility 4, Smartlink), and explosive ammo. Shooting at a target who rolls six dice on Reaction, then 13 dice to resist (Body 6, Armor Jacket 8, -1 AP), that's three points of damage on the average. And it only takes a simple action, so the Face can do it again right away. There's no drain test, and there's no possibility of Counterspelling, and there's no Force capping his hits, and there are a lot of negative modifiers that might affect the target's Reaction test. And that's just a Face, with a pistol.

The SR4A direct combat drain rule does little to fix the problem. You can still Overcast Mana Bolt at 10, get two net hits, resist drain down to 4 damage, then First Aid it away. It causes little trouble for Overcasters, but a lot of trouble at the low end. In fact, you could argue that it encourages Overcasting, because while the drain damage is a bit higher, at least the target got taken out.