Ok, so we just make an appropriate IC post along with our OOC action declaration? Sounds good to me!

Bye
Thanee

I've heard opinions that it was done this way because if you apply the modifier to the attacker, there's more chance that there's a glitch. So anything that's not attacker-specific (something the attacker is doing, some situation of the attacker), should be a modifier for the defender. Kinda makes sense to me...

The SUV continues driving forward toward the gate and Hammer.

next up is the people in and near the truck.

Oh boy

Yeah, I know for sure, that they have changed the cover modifiers for that reason, phlapjack.

In the original SR4 it was a penalty for the attacker, while in the new SR4A it is also a defensive bonus.

Bye
Thanee

Ah I see. I have the SR4 hardback but the SR4A pdf. The pdf is the only thing I have access to for the foreseeable future.

I think Crispy has to work a bit on his warning shot.



Yay!

Crispy fired on the SUV and didn't scratch it, even though he rolled pretty well (4 hits on 8 dice, with no hits on defense). Maybe the situation calls for some grenades

I have both, and I am using the PDF exclusively (only use the actual book during game nights). It is so much more convenient.

Bye
Thanee

Or aiming at vulnerable points like the wheels to force a possible crash which could injure those inside the vehicle.

I agree - the reason I don't have access to the hardback is that I didn't want to lug it all the way to China


This is a good point. I consciously didn't do something like this because I wanted Crispy's shot to be that "wild, rushed" event that it was. The long,narrow burst was a Simple Action, so for his other Simple Action he'll be taking aim.

No joy. I'd need 5 + D6 net hits to do damage.

Oh well. Hammerson's looking like he's in trouble

There's always Control Thoughts on the rocket-launcher guy, I guess

Pfft, if we survive the truck people, we all have a second IP and none of the opposition has, so we all can just get back into the guard shack/tower, enjoy a nice game of poker until guard shift and then hand the problem over to the next guys.

Your confidence is as inspiring as your shooting, dammit.

Dak, from my earlier observe in details, anything further to add ? Any reply from control room ?

Even in a war zone, people typically act in a certain way when gunfire erupts nearby. Sure enough, the people around the truck all instinctively duck, and then move more quickly toward anything that resembles cover.

One of them carries a rocket launcher and brings it up over his shoulder and takes aim. A rocket streaks from the tube toward the guard tower, specifically at Crispy. He's got 6 dice in his pool. Range is about 140 meters, putting it in Medium Range. The launcher has an image magnification scope on it.

6d6.hits(5) → [2,6,6,4,1,6] = (3)

Scatter:
4d6 → [1,5,2,4] = (12)
Direction:
1d6 → [2] = (2)

So the rocket explodes 9 meters away from Crispy, a little high and beyond. Crispy will get good cover (+4 dice).

The tower has an armor rating of 16 and a structure rating of 13.

The rocket's DV is 14P. And its -2 per meter away.. So 9 * 2 = 18. So it does... nothing. I hate rockets in shadowrun.

He then runs north toward the outer guard house.

--

Another fellow opens up with an LMG, firing a long narrow burst at Crispy. Medium range, so -1. He's rolling 5 dice. 5d6.hits(5) → [1,4,1,3,2] = (0) All wide, it seems.

He seeks cover behind the truck.

--

One with an assault rifle is going to shoot at Crispy, and another at Hammer.

Shooting at Crispy, its Medium range, so -1 dice. He'll take two shots, the second with a 1 point recoil penalty.

5d6.hits(5) → [5,6,6,5,4] = (4)

I'll let Crispy do defensive rolls if he wants here, before I go to the second shot.

The one firing at Hammer: 5d6.hits(5) → [1,6,4,6,2] = (2)

I'll let Hammer do the same thing if he wants. and then we'll proceed.

Didn't mean to impugn Hammerson's abilities. This is just gonna be a tough nut to crack.

Hope we can take the SUV in one piece! *plays more A-team music*

Sorry, lost track in the confusion. Kindly point me toward which post you're looking for a response to?

Defense on the first shot: Crispy'll go full-defense, using up his 2nd IP
Rea(6) + Dodge(2) + Cover(4) = 4 hits

Second shot coming at Crispy.

4d6.hits(5) → [4,3,3,5] = (1)

De nada mate, lots going on for you

5 hits perception on the SUV to how if he was driving erratically or looked "Friendly" .. I think I can safely fragging ignore that now lol

2 hits on perception as I stepped to the edge of our gatehouse to look at what Morales' team were doing (While maintaining cover specifically)

on that ,can I have 2 dice for cover against this gunfire, that was the point of me standing where I am.

CRISPY - let's get some retro tunage going on the TacNet ! - music to Dance to Chummer !



I'll wait to roll reaction pending answers above ... as much as I am now cursing Crispy for all his worth, Hammer is glad for the adrenaline finally

I see what you mean... 4d6 scatter and just -1 per net hit... almost impossible to hit anything with that.

Bye
Thanee

Perception against the SUV doesn't give you any indicators that he's friendly.

Perception toward Morales' team- looks like they're heading toward the vehicles in the north east section of the lot.

Partial cover - yes, 2 dice for Hammer.

Has there been errata to nerf rockets even more than they already were?

The Scatter table in my SR4 says

SR4A lists it as 4D6 scatter for rockets.

Ah OK, so the devs were unhappy with the fact that rockets sometimes actually hit and have corrected that horrible mistake. Would have been nice to include that in the official errata. *shrug*

Yeah, that would be nice, but i think there was just so much they changed with the update to SR4A that they couldn't do it as errata to the original book. That's the whole reason for doing it. Kind of like how much was changed between D&D 3.0 and 3.5.

Still it is pretty amazing how much more accurate a grenade launcher is compared to a rocket. Fewer scatter dice and successes cut the distance down by 2 meters each.

Let's dodge some bullets !
REA 9 + Cover 2
(11d6.hits(5)=6 )

---------------------



just to add to this in my opinion :
If you're shooting a dumb rocket, at a person, on a flat trajectory, you should miss.
they are designed for static or Huge targets


had the guy been paying attention in Terrorist school and not thinking about his 62 virgins or whatever ... he'd have remembered to aim at the building as it is just a success test and hope that someone is caught in the blast

Second shot at Hammer:

4d6.hits(5) → [6,1,2,2] = (1)

Mother Fragger - STOP Shooting my nice guard house !
REA 9 + Cover 2 - 1 defended once
(10d6.hits(5)=6 )

wow .. Hammer does NOT want to get shot today !

No shit? I did not realize this. I assumed that even when aiming at a building/vehicle/etc that you still have to do scatter test.

Also, an RPG can be very accurate.... if you want to see exactly how accurate, and don't mind gore, google "executed by rpg"

I thought I had too much time on my hands.

I used to maintain Army weapons for a living, the LAW is as described relatively accurate, it has a 5 round spotting rifle on it to range find the TANK you are trying to hit. and against a moving target at range ... naaah ... dream on,






Also: Treat Rockets as Grenades .. which detonate the next IP, giving targets chance to Move the hell away



and for my own sanity and to keep some friends


THIS ... is why I'm telling you AFTER your man shot his load

Personally I'd read that as
1: opposed vs persons | success vs location
2: apply scatter either way
3: rockets suck

Yeah, all that "success test" means is, that it is unopposed (i.e. all hits are net hits, which reduce the scatter).

Scatter still happens as normal.

Bye
Thanee

kinda, but if they had no scatter and were so cheap and hit whatever you pointed at ... everyone would be dead

I'm happy to sacrifice some reality for the sake of fun and surviving

I'm no rules lawyer, just what I read on the internets and let's move on and kill the fragger before he finds another Rocket ? Huh ? now he has remembered terrorist school

Exactly.

They are deadly enough, as is, if you use them with airburst and all that stuff that is available.

Bye
Thanee

actually reading success tests .. there is no "Net Hits" .. you succeed or you do not.

the GM decides the threshold and the test is made, you hit the threshold or fail

so you hit the AREA or Location "a building or a spot on the floor or whatever" and you hit or you miss .. no scatter !

bearing in mind the explosion is not instant and if you have movement left you can use it to "Run the Frag away " given that regardless as long as you have an IP left you will ALWAYS have a movement phase to move

This is a case of general rule vs. specific rule. The general rule of a success test is you either hit or miss. The specific rule for grenades/rockets/missiles is that you roll either an opposed test vs. a moving target or a success test. Hits (net hits in the case of an opposed test or all hits in the case of a success test) are then used to reduce scatter.

Another way of looking at it is that the success test threshold equals the what gets rolled for scatter. If you roll enough hits on your success test to reduce the scatter all the way to 0 then you hit dead on. If not, the grenade still goes off and you just hope that your target is within the blast.

BTW...
There is no running away from a rocket or missile. Only grenades explode the next IP.

oh aye, I agree it's totally up in the air .. but I'd say it should only ever apply when trying to hit a barn door, or a building

the rules trolls have tried to argue that you can try and hit the floor at someones feet thus Success test = insta-Gib ..

to which I say .. Go forth and multiply ! .. not a hope Son, that's cheating of the highest order

but if you wanted to hit the tower .. yeah .. but Crispy would have left the country by the time the rocket arrived

yes but they are NOT bullets .. they have a flight time .. and in one IP .. you can sprint a few yards to not be at ground zero

unless you airburst it and add sensors for less than 1D6 sscatter ... but on a single shot Rocket .. that's too expensive and not what it was designed for

Guns for people .. rockets for buildings missiles for tanks

______________

I'm not posting on it any more, sorry I've derailed here .. you are the GM .. you do as you see fit mate and I'm more than happy to go either way ... just don't point it at me LOL

**EDIT** THis post needs more smilies, I don't want to come across as a rules lawyering jack-ass. I respect any decision the GM makes, and am having a blast in this and other games.

So, opposition attacks (and defense against) have been dealt with and it's time for my held action, right?

Edit:
black line: moving; red: shooting

Problem with this plan is: walking, Brian can't make the movement in one IP and running, he'll miss with grenades.

So: I want him to run (not sprint) for 25/2 meters, which should get him there and then shoot someone twice with plain old assault rifle rounds.

move: as black line
free: perception to pick a willing target
simple: shoot him
simple: shoot him again

Rolling:
Perception: Intuition 4 + Perception 4 + TacNet 2 - Distracted 2 = 8 dice => [5,3,6,4,6,3,1,3] = (3) Guess I'll see a bit of one of the guys.
Shooting once: Agility 5 + Automatics 4 + Spec: Assault Rifles 2 + Smartlink 2 + TacNet 2 - Attacker Running 2 - Medium Range 1 - Target has good cover 4 = 8 dice => [1,2,3,4,3,3,4,4] = (0) A clean miss!
And twice: 8 dice - 0 (RC 4 >= recoil 1) => [6,4,2,5,1,1,2,1] = (2) Hmm, that might even hit.

Edit 2:

Areas Alpha: base DV 6P, -1 AP

Still in full dodge mode
Rea(6) + Dodge(2) + Cover(4) - previous attack(1) = 4 hits

Good choice! Unfortunately, Crispy is not so original, so when he says the music has started, he OF COURSE means this music, which signifies that much arse is about to be kicked.

Of course there are no net hits, because it is unopposed.

The threshold, in this case, is determined by the scatter.

Bye
Thanee

Dakka Fiend, you can only run 1/3 of your movement rate each IP, since movement in combat isn't based on your own IP, but the highest IP around, which is 3.

Bye
Thanee

Yet another rule I wish were different in SR I wish combat were always 4 IPs. You can move 1/4 your total movement each IP. Seems a lot cleaner than having to say "wait, what's the highest IP again? So I can only move x/2 this IP or what?"

Pesky math*! I hates it!

*Or "maths" to our British friends You guys are weird...

Damn, yeah, that's a rule that gets me again and again. Well, even with only 1/3 (or even 1/4) of running, Brian should get far enough to shot at the guy taking cover behind (to the west of) the truck's cab. Not that 0 an 2 hits are gonna do much...

I'll use my second simple action of the first pass to take aim at the front wheel of the SUV.