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SilverWolf_assassin
I like the new stuff, especially in regards to the charisma adepts.
So Game machanics aside, Does anyone feel this over powers the adept or does it just further specialize them?

--------------------
Chase, Spider Conjurer of the Spiders
"Where there was one, There was a dozen"
"Where there was a bug spirit, there was a smear."
Fortune
Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the idea of Social Adepts per say. They are just one more thing that can be munched in Shadowrun (or any other RPG).

I think the diversification of Adepts is a good even necessary thing. Adepts have been waiting a long time for some decent attention to be turned their way, and I think the writers were up to the challenge. Way to go guys. smile.gif
Zenmaxer
I am quite happy to see them... If you play a straight priority system with no edges or flaws, they're at least a little harder to munch out.
Cochise
Found the first thing that IMHO is in dire need of Errata:

Mana-sensitive films / cameras: Apart from the fact that the pricing of film plates is IMHO far to cheap for something that allows purely mundane persons to "assense" (with an equally low avail of 6) there's one major bug:

Mana-sensitive film easily captures manifesting magicians and spirits; this requires no Success Test

Hello? Manifestations do only occur within the mind of the persons that the magician manifests to. Photography of such things should most definitely be more difficult than Other phenomena - background count, dual-natured critters, aura scanning and spell signature analysis - require a Success test
Did somebody mix up manifestation and materialization?

Sidenote: While I generally like the idea of "Ghostbuster"-like photography, I do not like how it's presented in SOTA2064. But that could just be me ...
krishcane
QUOTE (Fortune)

I argued strenuously against the validity of a number of Social Power aspects for another reason as well. There really is no equivalent once you put throw a Social Adept into the mix. There aren't that many that every Johnson, or even Corp would have enough on call to handle all negotiations, and without one they'd be at a serious disadvantage because there is no non-magical counterpart.

Guess this just means that SOTA: 2065 will show off all the cool cyberware and bioware that the corps design to take control of the streets back from all the Social Adepts bleeding them dry!

Here's a few ideas...

"Soothing Voice / Intimidating Voice" add-ons for the voice enhancement cyberware

"No sweat" body-cue suppression bioware for lying flawlessly

Ultrasound generator at a frequency to induce anxiety or discomfort... along with a cyberear filter for Mr. J.

Hypnotic Eyes / Hypnotic Face -- a bioware-based "extreme makeover" to make eyes or a whole face that is compelling and stunning to behold

"Not Impressed" bioware -- glands that prevent a person from being impressed, surprised, or intimidated.

Emotion-on-Cue chips -- toned-down versions of a p-fix, that let a person select an emotion or attitude from a chip-library. Body cues, facial expressions, and voice shift automatically respond to relay the chosen emotion in a convincing fashion. Along with a bit of training in tactical emotion-selection, can be highly effective. Also used in the acting industry.

--K
Critias
When was it decided that magic has to be able to do everything technology can, and vice-versa?
blakkie
QUOTE (Critias)
When was it decided that magic has to be able to do everything technology can, and vice-versa?

What, you didn't get the memo?
SilverWolf_assassin
We have kind of been waiting to make the traditional Bard, a balanced Charisma character with a physical presence that isn't overwhelming. We got it, level 2 reflexes. Level 2 kinesics, level 2 in a combat skill. Allocate skills in a balanced fashion and now we have a very balanced starting character with good potential. A person to avoid combat when possible and frag some posers when it isn't possible. Sounds like a good character with every reason to succeed in the shadowrun world to me.

My analysis: Best book since "Man and Machine".
---------------------------------------
Count Silver Wolf a.k.a. Maverick
"You don't understand my friend. You have been dead for an hour."
*Thud*
SimpleRunner
It was filed with those TPS reports!
Nikoli
That's it, I'm blowing up the building.
Tell me I can't listen to the Matrix feeds at a reasonable volumn, I'll show you all!
And, and, and, I want my stapler back.
It's a Red Swingline.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (krishcane)
Emotion-on-Cue chips -- toned-down versions of a p-fix, that let a person select an emotion or attitude from a chip-library. Body cues, facial expressions, and voice shift automatically respond to relay the chosen emotion in a convincing fashion. Along with a bit of training in tactical emotion-selection, can be highly effective. Also used in the acting industry.

Check out the last issue of TSS.

QUOTE
"No sweat" body-cue suppression bioware for lying flawlessly

That shouldn't be bioware. Either drugs, p'fix chips, or similar used to enchance the skill.

QUOTE
Hypnotic Eyes / Hypnotic Face -- a bioware-based "extreme makeover" to make eyes or a whole face that is compelling and stunning to behold.

While I think you've crossed a line here, cosmetic surgery should be able to fullfill this role (and used to justify an Edge purchased by the character). I'm more a fan of a nanite facial alteration system that can change you facial features from a program, like nanotattoos.

QUOTE
"Soothing Voice / Intimidating Voice" add-ons for the voice enhancement cyberware

Another line crosser. Manipulation of the vocal cords in whatever manner could provide minor benifits, I think. Again, something very akin to cosmetic surgery and an Edge.
snowRaven
QUOTE (TheDude)
Synner always like to reference use of Killing Hands for an artist adept following the Artist's Way. Not a natural match, but certainly not worthy of mechanics that exclude the match, or explain it for that matter.

With an explanation, players with imiganations can explain most anything. A really aggressive performance artist into elaborate displays of destruction art?

Posssible.

I just had the most interesting idea...

An sculptor with Strength Boost and Smashing Blow, using his powers to sculpt solid rock with his bare hands.
RangerJoe
Picasso SMASH!

It would be a little bit rough, as you're looking at a barrier rating of 12 or more (for stone), but provided you want to sculpt in units of 0.5 m or less, it should work fine. I hear the rough-cut, natural stone look might be in for 2064.
Nikoli
I sooo gotta make a troll named picasso now...
SimpleRunner
Add Penetrating Blow from SOTA: 2064 for the more subtle details to your sculpting details.
Req
I played in a game with a deranged rigger named Picasso. He had a camera array on the back / underbelly of his van, and took pictures of the pedestrians he hit / ran over. He liked that "abstract art" idea. eek.gif

That guy was a bit of a loon.
Crimsondude 2.0
I wasn't aware that Picasso ever used the stone medium.
SilverWolf_assassin
Terre cuite and bronze.
I am sure tire tread marks and flesh would have been used if there were access.
----------------------

I wonder if I could cyber a ghoul up to swallow a person like a snake?
Maybe a snake shape shifter could do it.
Zeel De Mort
Your average runner wouldn't be likely to know one way or the other either!
Edward
I dislike claming cosmetic surgery as a source of an edge. What happens if a character goes out and gets the cometic surgery later?

Edward
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
I dislike claming cosmetic surgery as a source of an edge. What happens if a character goes out and gets the cometic surgery later?

He or she gets a different edge of equal value then.
Synner
Back from vacations and nice to see this thread up and going

I haven't got time to get back on all your doubts, but so far I'm amazed nobody has started picking on either of the Attunements and saying adepts are going to replace riggers too. nyahnyah.gif

Other than that I want to reiterate what Dude has already said. At an early point in development we debated whether or not there should be a mechanic associated with Ways. This posed several problems most of which around the issue that any such mechanic either involved extensive and limiting lists of powers or pure judgement call on the part of the GM.

We decided that the testimonies would provide a lot more in the way of direction and ideas regarding what makes an adept follow a specific Way and provide a framework for character design which didn't box anyone in. A GM's fiat was still reserved as an optional rule IIRC (see under Running Ways - The Lost) for those who wanted to give the concept more teeth in their individual games.
Fortune
QUOTE (Synner)
I haven't got time to get back on all your doubts...

Make time! wink.gif
Synner
I will, I will, I'm just catching up with a week's worth of mail backlog and another freelance project so it might take a while. wink.gif

However, I'd also like to hear what people think of the other stuff in the book besides Adepts. I'm one of the authors on the Euromagic chapter and I had a lot of fun (I think everyone did) helping out in the Culture Shock section - note this one does include several ongoing plot updates.
Cochise
QUOTE (Synner)
I haven't got time to get back on all your doubts, but so far I'm amazed nobody has started picking on either of the Attunements and saying adepts are going to replace riggers too. nyahnyah.gif

Will come sooner or later ...
My current view on the whole adept section is "extremely enraged" to put it in mild words ...

Currently I'm willing to suggest a renaming of the Game into Mage- and Adeptrun
Fortune
QUOTE (Synner)
However, I'd also like to hear what people think of the other stuff in the book besides Adepts. I'm one of the authors on the Euromagic chapter and I had a lot of fun (I think everyone did) helping out in the Culture Shock section - note this one does include several ongoing plot updates.

It'd be easier, and facilitate more open comment if SoE had it's own forum, dont' you think? wink.gif

Seriously, I think most people are holding off until the appropriate forum is opened.
Zeel De Mort
QUOTE (Synner)
Back from vacations and nice to see this thread up and going

I haven't got time to get back on all your doubts, but so far I'm amazed nobody has started picking on either of the Attunements and saying adepts are going to replace riggers too. nyahnyah.gif

Attunement (Item) is pretty strong, particularly for any adepts that have a weapon focus. It's already a material link to you anyway, and paying 9 karma to get a -1tn with your dikoted weapon focus katana is well worth it to such a character. I wouldn't say it's horrific though.

I don't see adepts replacing riggers mind you. VCR 3 + quite a lot of dice >> Just a whole lot of dice.

Otherwise, well we haven't used any of the new powers yet but I don't see anything that's utterly game breaking.

I haven't read the other sections in detail yet. Just skimmed over the rules for some of the spy gear etc. Nothing incredibly good or bad there really, but it looks fine all the same.


Fortune: SoE has it's own forum. I assume you mean a forum for SOTA 2064. wink.gif Which, as has been pointed out to us lots of times, isn't happening 'til the current problems are fixed.


Edit: Even if you attune yourself to a car (bad idea if you ask me), have the Vehicle Empathy and Aptitude (Car) edges, AND a hell of a lot of dice, you're still not as good as a Rigger with a VCR 3 and quite a lot of dice, in my opinion.
Fortune
QUOTE (Zeel De Mort)
SoE has it's own forum.  I assume you mean a forum for SOTA 2064.

D'oh! embarrassed.gif

Teaches me to think as well as type at 1:30 in the morning. smile.gif

QUOTE
Which, as has been pointed out to us lots of times, isn't happening 'til the current problems are fixed.


Yes I know. I was just trying to point out one reason for the lack of wide-ranging response as of yet. Other than people are still just getting the book, of course. smile.gif
Zeel De Mort
True. Besides which, it wasn't exactly hard to predict that the adepts section would be the most controversial.

However, when I've read all the fluff text in the other sections I'll let everyone know what I thought of that as well. Don't hold your breath though!
Critias
QUOTE (Cochise)
Will come sooner or later ...
My current view on the whole adept section is "extremely enraged" to put it in mild words ...

Currently I'm willing to suggest a renaming of the Game into Mage- and Adeptrun

Why? What can they do now that's so hideously overpowering, can't be copied (in some way) with cyber or bioware, and that they also couldn't do before? I don't see what you're so outraged for.

Social stuff? That's fine -- it just means Tailored Pheromones aren't the pack leaders any more, all the time. And given the rules for street rep, etc, in MrJ's book, what's it really matter? If you make a hardcore social-only adept, he's too specialized to be a very fun character to play. If you add social stuff to round out an otherwise-physical adept, but the time you get the karma you need for all those powers, your street rep will be high enough for easy social tests, anyhow. ;)

Physical stuff? Ooh, he can reload a pistol as fast as someone with a smartlink now. With a laser sight and Attunement, he has the same TN mod (whoops, unless he calls a shot!) as a sammie with a smartlink II. He can run on walls -- why? How often, really, does it come up in game (and what walls couldn't be covered with a lot of Athletics, anyways)? Oh, I almost forgot, and now they can buy balance augmentation cyberware (for .6 more essence/power points than a sammie).

Other skills? Fine. He can paint really well (whoopty doo), he can roll more social dice (see above), and now he can drive okay, too. A dedicated rigger will still run rings around a car adept (given that he'll have amazing TN mods, and control pool, whereas an adept won't).

Really, I like the adept section, quite a bit. And I play riggers and street sammies more often than anything else. I don't see what the problem is, at all. Their powers seem quite a bit more balanced and reasonable to me than cigarette missile launchers and briefcase rockets.
Cochise
QUOTE (Critias)
Why?  What can they do now that's so hideously overpowering, can't be copied (in some way) with cyber or bioware, and that they also couldn't do before?  I don't see what you're so outraged for. 


  • Part of it is that they now can replicate almost any implant => The edge of cybered and bioed characters is reduced once more
  • Things like "Nimble Fingers" provide similar effects like the controlling functions of a smart link, yet for the adept that extends even to the use of simple objects. There are other new powers with similar effects: Iron Gut, Iron lung can provide TN modifiers no implant can. Pain Relief can do something that previously was thought to be impossible: It can remove Stun Damage (including that from Drain) and it's not limited in the number of applications ...
  • Escpecially the Cognition technique can be used in conjunction with the implant it replicates ... Say hello -2 karma when learning ... Mnemonic enhancer was considered to be unbalanced while it could provide such a bonus. Combine that with Linguistics where you get level 1 of a language for free ...
  • Infusion foci ... Although they have a very sound limitation in regards to who has to be present to create one and when their bonded, their avail just seems to be too low to be as "rare" as described => any starting Adept can have more than just one and IIRC one of the sourcebooks introduced a rule where Adepts can now bind foci at chargen ...
  • Aid Spell and Living (sustaining) Focus also leave a bit of a sore taste on my tongue


QUOTE
Social stuff?  That's fine -- it just means Tailored Pheromones aren't the pack leaders any more, all the time.


My problem there isn't so much that Tailored Pheromones aren't the end of all means now (actually none of my face-type characters ever had one). My problem is that now Adepts have entered the last remaining fields where magic wasn't that strong and once more Adepts are just plain better than anything else in that field (including the top notch tailored pheromones) ...

QUOTE
And given the rules for street rep, etc, in MrJ's book, what's it really matter?


Next problem: The reputation rules aren't that good either so it's likelier that those rules are left out completely than saying: "No SOTA 2064" or "SOTA 2064? Yes, but you can't use X,Y,Z ..."

QUOTE
If you make a hardcore social-only adept, he's too specialized to be a very fun character to play.


That heaviliy depends on the group ... I have seen more than one character that was a pure social "adept" (without being an adept at all) and the player's in question had more than just a short lived time of fun with them ...

QUOTE
Physical stuff?  Ooh, he can reload a pistol as fast as someone with a smartlink now.


But it doesn't end there ... he's better .. Extra dice, picking up and using simple objects also become free actions ...

QUOTE
Other skills?  Fine.  He can paint really well (whoopty doo), he can roll more social dice (see above), and now he can drive okay, too.  A dedicated rigger will still run rings around a car adept (given that he'll have amazing TN mods, and control pool, whereas an adept won't).


He'll be driving a bit better than just "o.k." ... Of course he can't really beat a rigger with VCR 3 ... but the driving part of a rigger is reduced as well and in general that pushes riggers more into the aeara of CCSS and electonic warfare, because on the Techwizz side adepts are also coming after them ... Adept are now easily better mechanics than mundanes ...

QUOTE
Really, I like the adept section, quite a bit.


That's your perogative ... As I said: Currently I'm having the feeling that SR is heading in a direction that I don't like at all.
And as hard as it might sound: I see that as a result of a great horde of new freelancers (originally coming from a "fan project") that bring in such a vast number of ideas that it turn's into overkill. And on the editing side the quality dramatically goes down: Or why is it that the Ways take up such a large ingame-description that stresses more than once that Ways are nothing strict and depend on the POV of the Adept and yet the first optional rule is about a power cost increase when an Adept derives from "his" Way (that deviation just might be his Way) or hasn't "found" his Way?

The same goes for something I found in SOTA 2063: Back then they introduced Filesharing ... Great, yet another implementation of our real world developments into a world that took a dramatically different development in the course of its history. To make things worse: The core rules suggest that programmes are usually provided in form of next to totally copy-protected OCCs and that source-code is normally not included ... Now tell me: How will Filesharing work on a large scale with such a basis?

I'm waiting to see Metalstorm and other developments of our real world surfacing in SR without back-checking if that really fits with what other parts of the rules say ...

I'll concede that some of this rant is mainly because I'm currently still in my "first shock" about things that eventually will turn out less serious as they appear to me right now ...

Herald of Verjigorm
500 posts saying "adepts are only good at sneaking and melee, make them good at something else" and now when it happens "adepts are too good at everything, cyber is worthless."
Cochise
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
500 posts saying "adepts are only good at sneaking and melee, make them good at something else"

Actually I never made one such thread or posting wink.gif
The previous possibilities were vast enough for me ...

QUOTE
and now when it happens "adepts are too good at everything, cyber is worthless."


And I'm not saying something like that either wink.gif
I'm saying that the edge a various number of implants had over magic is lost to a certain extend and that this extend is (currently) "greater" than I like it to be.
Escpecially when certain game effects of both worlds are compatible (Still can't combine increased reflexes with any cyber or bio, but Cogniction and Mnemonic enhancer work together just fine .. as do other powers and implants)
Dax
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
500 posts saying "adepts are only good at sneaking and melee, make them good at something else" and now when it happens "adepts are too good at everything, cyber is worthless."

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

I swear, the developers finally give people what they were asking for, and what happens? A whole pile of complaints about the developers delivering what was asked for.

Un-frikin-beliveable.
Zeel De Mort
Personally I think the new adept powers and metamagics are generally fine, however I do agree with some of what Cochise says.

More than a few of them do, more or less, replicate or exceed benefits you could previously only get with cyber or bioware.

On the other hand, as we all know, adepts are generally better when they specialise.

For example - Cochise is right that an adept can be a better mechanic than a mundane - just buy lots of bonus dice in your favourite B/R skill and take Centering (B/R). However a mundane can have an equivalent skill, or indeed higher since he's not spending any karma on initiating and generally has more points to put into skills at creation. He can also still manage a respectable +4 dice on B/R tests (Encephalon 2, Cerebral Booster 2, Enhanced Articulation) - and those will apply to ALL B/R tests, as well as a whole bunch of other skills, as well as increasing his intelligence and reaction, and making Int skill learning easier, and increasing hacking pool.
Dax
I would also like to point out that an Adept will always take longer to get good at something than a Mundane will. For the simple fact that for an Adept to gain more points for their powers they HAVE to Initiate. And Initiation gets more and more expensive the higher you go.

A mundane with some a decent pile of cred can get some nifty cyberware installed nice and quick, and get the results right away. They also don't spend as much Karma because they don't have to pay for an initiation.

I don't really see the big problem here.
mfb
how exactly is a starting adept going to have any infusion foci at all, much less multiple infusion foci? or don't they cost karma to bond?

most of what you're complaining about, cochise, will probably be solved in SOTA:65, where (i'm willing to bet good money) they'll have a 'new cyberware' section.

what are you referring to, re: SOTA63 and filesharing? the only thing i see relative to that is the cracking program, which answers your question pretty neatly. how do you fileshare when all you have is the object code? use your cracker utility on it, to rebuild the source code. i don't see anything else on filesharing, though i've missed stuff before.
Cochise
QUOTE (Dax)
I would also like to point out that an Adept will always take longer to get good at something than a Mundane will. For the simple fact that for an Adept to gain more points for their powers they HAVE to Initiate. And Initiation gets more and more expensive the higher you go.

1) Wrong ... no matter what the FAQ might tell you, Adepts do not have to initiate to get new powers (although in most scenarios it would be dumb not to, just because of those nifty metamagical techniques) ... See core rules on the 20 karma rule

2) Initiations up to grad 9 are rather "cheap" when using the full potential of rules

QUOTE
A mundane with some a decent pile of cred can get some nifty cyberware installed nice and quick, and get the results right away.


So can the adept and since the newer powers are compatible with the tech, there's no reason (given the a mindset of a tech-loving adept) not to invest in at least some of those "nifty" implants as well ...

QUOTE
They also don't spend as much Karma because they don't have to pay for an initiation.


They have to spend it on skills, that become equally expensive over time and do not provide secondary benefits as initiation.
It doesn't matter if my char gets 8 dice from a natural B/R skill or 4 + 4 from B/R plus improved ability ...

QUOTE
I don't really see the big problem here.


I guess that's why it's called "opinion" ...

But right now I'm feeling pissed again. And that's because I'm voicing my opinion that has been asked for and what I do receive is not a discussion but rather unnecessary comments ... Yes, Herald and Dax this means you ...
Cochise
QUOTE (mfb)
how exactly is a starting adept going to have any infusion foci at all, much less multiple infusion foci? or don't they cost karma to bond?


I'm very positive about a rule in one of the recent supplements that allowed adepts to buy spell points for purposes of foci bonding at chargen ...

QUOTE
most of what you're complaining about, cochise, will probably be solved in SOTA:65, where (i'm willing to bet good money) they'll have a 'new cyberware' section.


Probably? For sure?
While some of my complaints are likely to be rebalanced by then, there's nothing that will reverse the process of adepts entering fields that previously were the sole domain of mundanes, where they could actually exceed the performance of magically active characters ... and "of course" the adpets are better again ...

QUOTE
what are you referring to, re: SOTA63 and filesharing? the only thing i see relative to that is the cracking program, which answers your question pretty neatly. how do you fileshare when all you have is the object code? use your cracker utility on it, to rebuild the source code. i don't see anything else on filesharing, though i've missed stuff before.


It's not so much the cracker program ... I do have a "feeling" (and it's really just that) that currently there is a tendency to just implement whatever real world development into SR ... and I more than willing to repeat: I don't like that ...
mfb
you're thinking of the high-power character creation rules in MJLBB. if you're making high-powered characters, i don't see a problem with adepts starting with foci.

i've never understood the stick-in-the-mud mentality, with regards to either magic or cyber. i mean, why shouldn't magic and technology be expanding into new areas? i mean, consider how incredibly unrealistic that would be--when a culture puts an emphasis on progress (as opposed to tradition, a la the dark ages), the state of the art in that culture grows in leaps and bounds. why in the world should magic and/or technology remain chained to what we had in SR1?

as far as introducing real-world concepts into SR, what would you suggest? re-inventing the wheel every time SR need to introduce a new advance?
Herald of Verjigorm
Any adept could buy any cyber that would help them. That's why almost all pistol adepts have smartlinks. Nothing is purely the domain of mundanes except possibly mana warps. Cyber still achieves power faster than adepts (unless the karma/ nuyen.gif ratio is off in your games) and adepts still aren't limited to 5.99 before they drop dead.

Starting cyber can still make any character more versatile and generally powerful at chargen than starting adept powers.
mfb
no kidding. i'm playing a ~200 karma adept whose focus is combat, and i'm still playing catch-up to well-designed starting-level sammies. the problem is, in order to excel one thing, adepts have to give up almost everything else. that's the balancing factor, for adepts--sure, you can become the greatest pistoleer in the world, but what happens when you don't have your pistols?
Eyeless Blond
What *I'd* like to see coming up: ways for mundanes to counter, duplicate, or just plain be better than magic. Since background counts are already around, maybe SotA 2065 can have ways to create artificial background count or even mana warps. As for duplicating or finding areas that magic simply can't be a part of, I'm at a loss.
Snow_Fox
Mine was shipped by Stiggy babys on thursday, I'm still waiting.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
What *I'd* like to see coming up: ways for mundanes to counter, duplicate, or just plain be better than magic. Since background counts are already around, maybe SotA 2065 can have ways to create artificial background count or even mana warps. As for duplicating or finding areas that magic simply can't be a part of, I'm at a loss.

Why?
The part of the difference between awakened and mundanes. Tech can creat magic, if they could it would be a major break through and you could build a whole campaign around magical groups trying to stop it. The awakened are expensive and can command huge saleries, because they are so rare. If tech could replace them, they would not be as rare and so would not be as marketable.
Zeel De Mort
Well, there are some places where awakened characters can be replaced by more mundane things. For example using biofibre instead of wards. It's not the same, but it's not bad either.

If you want to create a background count somewhere, just do lots of really shady things! Murder a few people, ruthlessly sterilise the whole place, etc.

Let's not forget the various strains of FAB. Every mundanes favourite! Or at least mine. smile.gif


A place that magic can't be a part of: The Matrix.

Magic can have a very small impact here, for example with Increase Intelligence spells, Pain Resistance and so on. But to most intents and purposes it doesn't make any difference in the matrix if you're a grade 16 super-adept or not. If you're running on Hot ASIST it's all about tech and natural ability.

Eyeless Blond
And Improved Ability(technical skills). But the point is well-made; the Matrix (and to a lesser extent rigging) are the last bastions of mundanes.

As for tech duplicating magic, I guess that's not really what I'm looking for. What I really want is for magic to not become as pervasive as I see it becoming lately. More and more I'm feeling like SR is becoming like D&D in the sense that if you don't have access to magic you might as well be crippled, especially at mid-to-high levels.
mfb
there are no IA: Technical Skills. at least, not that i'm aware of.
Zeel De Mort
Indeed there isn't. I was just going to say the same! Even if there was I'm not sure I'd allow it to work in the matrix. Hmm, perhaps...

It's just Physical, Combat, Articstic/Performance Knowledge, B/R, Social and Vehicle skills that you can get Improved Ability for - which is quite enough!!


Edit: Although you can get Centering on Technical skills. But again, grumble grumble, magic and the matrix, no no no, etc.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Cochise @ Oct 8 2004, 02:17 PM)
Hello? Manifestations do only occur within the mind of the persons that the magician manifests to. Photography of such things should most definitely be more difficult than Other phenomena - background count, dual-natured critters, aura scanning and spell signature analysis - require a Success test
Did somebody mix up manifestation and materialization?

care to point me to the book and page that says that a manifesting mage only appear as a image in someones head? from what i read, anyone present will be able to see a mage when manifesting. in fact i belive that a manifesting mage would in fact appear on normal film to as the magican is in fact appearing in sound and image on the physical plane. we are talking about a camera here that can take a photo of something that is purely astral. takeing a photo of a manifesting mage should be the least of its tricks...

manifesting is appearing without physical form. materialization is just that, becomeing material...
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