Is there a reason that several of the "modifications" perform differently than their "accessory" counterparts? I can see it in the case of the suppressor, but why do underbarrel weights, slings, and foregrips seem to work differently when they're mods (certainly, the sling makes me wonder)?
Where's the break between "pistols" and "longarms?" Is it between pistols and machine pistols, MP's and SMG's, or SMG's and rifles? The distinction is used pretty liberally throughout the weapon modification section.
What kind of ammuntion do Autocannons and Cannons fire? Are there costs listed anywhere?
Thank you, by the way, for clearing up the gas vent/suppressor combo issue, and adding cool stuff like ammo skipping (selectable revolver cylinders, yes!), extreme environment modding, advanced safeties and all the goodies that come with that, and the raw fun and silliness potential that can be had with drone sidearms (did someone read redRobe?).
Full Version: Arsenal Qs
A minor issue, but where I can I find information on Smart Tires? They are listed as a Std. Upgrade for the Horizon-Doble Revolution, but a perusal through the mods doesn't give any information on such an upgrade.
@DMFubar
Tire rules are on page 106.
Tire rules are on page 106.
| QUOTE (Shrike30) |
| What kind of ammuntion do Autocannons and Cannons fire? Are there costs listed anywhere? |
assault cannon rounds are in the core rulebook.
Smart Tires apparently require Pilot 3. Neither of the vehicles that come with Smart Tires as standard have Pilot 3. Are the Smart Tires a mistake, or should we nudge the Pilot ratings up a couple of points on both of those?
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
assault cannon rounds are in the core rulebook. |
Nowhere does it say that Autocannons and Cannons use Assault Cannon rounds, although I'm aware that in previous editions, they did. Both Autocannons use the Heavy Machinegun range table (with the heavy doubling extreme range), which could certainly be confusing to people coming in without exposure to a previous edition.
Both the Light and Heavy cannon seem to be of a significantly heavier caliber than assault cannons, given their higher damage code and their blast radius.
| QUOTE (Shrike30) | ||||
Nowhere does it say that Autocannons and Cannons use Assault Cannon rounds, although I'm aware that in previous editions, they did. Both Autocannons use the Heavy Machinegun range table (with the heavy doubling extreme range), which could certainly be confusing to people coming in without exposure to a previous edition. Both the Light and Heavy cannon seem to be of a significantly heavier caliber than assault cannons, given their higher damage code and their blast radius. |
I woudl have the autocannons use HMG ammo, or special "autocannon" ammo costing the same price (per round) as HMG ammo.
As for full-size CANNONS? I would say ammo is specific for each weapon and use HE mortar rounds for cost and availability. Heck, I might add in some APFSDS (Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot) ammo with the same effect as APDS (but no blast effect) for cannons. It would be made of Pure Unobtanium of course, but it would make my players drool...
I thought cannons fired clowns. Maybe that's just at the circus.
| QUOTE (Shrike30) | ||||
Nowhere does it say that Autocannons and Cannons use Assault Cannon rounds, although I'm aware that in previous editions, they did. Both Autocannons use the Heavy Machinegun range table (with the heavy doubling extreme range), which could certainly be confusing to people coming in without exposure to a previous edition. Both the Light and Heavy cannon seem to be of a significantly heavier caliber than assault cannons, given their higher damage code and their blast radius. |
Assault cannon ammo is for all weapons listed under the Assault cannon header; the Gauss Rifle description specifies used ammo (special case). I think the newbies will have an easier time than us, seeing some of the questions
| QUOTE (Dashifen) |
| @DMFubar Tire rules are on page 106. |
Heh, silly me, looking in the mods section. THANKS!!!
Fire selection change, s.151, says that (almoste) every weapon can be modified with another firing mode. So if i modify a shotgun for FA-mode, is it possible to install a gas-vent system, s.152? I know that the rule says "gas-vent systems can be built into machine pistols, SMGs, assault rifl es, and machine guns." But how does this work together with a fire selection changed shotgun? Somehow it seems reasonable that the gas-vent system doesnt work for pistols, even if their fire selection change would be modified. I think that this is a question of the weapons bulk and construction art.
But shotguns? From their size they fit a carabine ...
But shotguns? From their size they fit a carabine ...
...Is one able to purchase a customised weapon, armour, or vehicle at chargen if she pays the extra 
? Didn't see anything in the text about this.
? Didn't see anything in the text about this.
Although I don't have my copy of ARSE yet as it is currently downloading as we speak I think it would be silly not to let them, but then again as long as the charactesr have the proper skills I also let them start the campaign with custom spells. 
...what I am referring to is buying them from someone else who customises them rather than the character doing the work herself.
I don't see why not as long as the character had the proper contacts for the job, which if you assume a more Pink Mohawk tone as I do would include almost every fixer.
Is ther a price for the drug Guts on page 74?
hovering of VTOL craft reduces operation time by one third, does this also apply for helicopters and tiltwings?
Shouldnt LAVs (t-birds) have improved takeoff and
landing modification level 2 as standard modification, as it is part of their design?
Shouldnt LAVs (t-birds) have improved takeoff and
landing modification level 2 as standard modification, as it is part of their design?
| QUOTE (maeel) |
| hovering of VTOL craft reduces operation time by one third, does this also apply for helicopters and tiltwings? |
I'd guess "No".
The difference is the propulsion system. For a helicopter (and a tilt-rotor basically is a helicopter when in vertical mode) hovering AFAIK doesn't consume (much) more fuel than actual flight.
But a VTOL-jet consumes loads of fuel when hovering - today's Harrier jumpjet would burn more then half its fuel tank trying to start vertically.
Thats why Harriers start using runways with ramps and just land vertically.
I found a typo!
The cover picture and the very first fullpage picture seem to have been switched!
...Because no one would willingly choose a out of perspective ork over a cool weapons dealer (That involves AR!).
The cover picture and the very first fullpage picture seem to have been switched!
...Because no one would willingly choose a out of perspective ork over a cool weapons dealer (That involves AR!).
It would, at the very least, be a great solution.
In most of the recent books I liked the first full page pic better than the cover...
Even though it sounds like you can combine a martial art maneuver with any other kind of attack, let me just be sure: can you combine, say, killing hands and riposte, or kick?
Yes, I realize the foolishness of "killing hands" combined with a "kick". I just always assumed that killing hands was a euphemism for the channeling of mana / chi / whatever into any physical blow.
Yes, I realize the foolishness of "killing hands" combined with a "kick". I just always assumed that killing hands was a euphemism for the channeling of mana / chi / whatever into any physical blow.
Yes.
| QUOTE (Earlydawn) |
| Even though it sounds like you can combine a martial art maneuver with any other kind of attack, let me just be sure: can you combine, say, killing hands and riposte, or kick? |
Don't see anything in there that prevents it, and given that adepts are likely to be the ones who really, really want martial arts manoeuvres it seems harsh to make them choose.
For me, what Arsenal is really driving home, is the vulnerability of super-modded, armed and armoured anthroform killing machines to magic.
Maybe if they used a magician's brain for the cyborg unit?
well . . there WOULD be an magic attribute of 1 as the essence never goes to 0 . . but because it's a cloned brain it would not be magical because you can't clone magic and if it is a childs brain it is not yet awakened and probably never will because the awakening rules say that you start with a magic attribute of 1 IF you're still at full Essence . .
| QUOTE (Stahlseele) |
| ... and if it is a childs brain it is not yet awakened and probably never will because the awakening rules say that you start with a magic attribute of 1 IF you're still at full Essence . . |
Unless, of course, you use the Latent Awakening rules.
*snaps fingers*
right, i forgot about that . .
right, i forgot about that . .
| QUOTE (Shrike30) |
| Where's the break between "pistols" and "longarms?" Is it between pistols and machine pistols, MP's and SMG's, or SMG's and rifles? The distinction is used pretty liberally throughout the weapon modification section. |
I would imagine it is weapons that use the "longarms" skill, being sports/sniper rifles and shotguns.
I'm feeling to lazy to check right now, but isn't a jarhead's Essence less than ( 1 )? If so then any Awakened brain would be a burn-out.
| QUOTE (Ravor @ Jan 31 2008, 03:13 AM) |
| I'm feeling to lazy to check right now, but isn't a jarhead's Essence less than ( 1 )? If so then any Awakened brain would be a burn-out. |
Jarheads automatically have a remaining Essence of 0.1, but there's always initiation, not to mention anthroform killing machines possessed by malevolent Voodoo spirits.
I wasn't really serious about awakened cyborgs. I've just been putting together some sample drones and vehicles from the Arsenal rules (which I'll share if people want) and it depressed me how I created an unstoppable cyborg killer that could be stopped, nay one-shotted, by a moderately powerful mage overcasting with a little Edge. I'm normally not of the "magic is overpowered" party... but my cyborg killing machine is just too cool to die so young.
About the new martial arts rules:
| QUOTE |
| A character gains the advantages of all martial art styles she knows. Should they overlap, these dice modifiers stack |
Does it mean that it is possible, per raw, to stack bonuses to DV too?
Like for example:
- Boxing: +2 DV
- Karate: +1DV
- Kung Fu: +1DV
- Wildcat: +1DV
- Muay Thai: +2DV
Which would make in total +7DV ?
Note that I would never allow this in my games anyway, I'm just wondering about the official rule.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| For me, what Arsenal is really driving home, is the vulnerability of super-modded, armed and armoured anthroform killing machines to magic. |
Don't forget Object Resistance. A cyborg is an extremely high tech device, and anything that's targetable constitutes a non-living, non-magic target. (So, physical spells only.) It's got an Object Resistance of at LEAST 4, and arguably higher. This creates a threshold that's nothing to shrug at.
Seems legal to buy all those.
"Not in my game" counter +1, please.
"Not in my game" counter +1, please.
| QUOTE (Odsh) |
| Note that I would never allow this in my games anyway, I'm just wondering about the official rule. |
I see no reason not to allow it (if they do stack, I'll need more research to determine)
its no more powerful than a white knight on full auto. and more restrictive
| QUOTE (Odsh) |
| Which would make in total +7DV ? |
For a total worth of 70 Karma.
The real question is: Is it cheaper than Critical Strike 7?
To stack all those you'd need a higher level of martial arts then available. One advantage per level, 4 levels. Max bonus to DV would be +4.
For around the same amount of BP's an adept can get killing hands and critical strike 3, and still have room for other cool adept abilities. So for a point by point basis it's not overpowered.
| QUOTE |
| To stack all those you'd need a higher level of martial arts then available |
The quality Matial Arts is in a single style, so you can invest 5-20BP in for example Boxing giving you 1-4 of the Boxing advantages. There's nothing to say you can't also invest 5-20 BP's in Karate and then get 1-4 of the Karate advantages.
Oops, reading comprehension failure on my part there. Totally managed to skim over the relevant part where you could take the quality at different levels multiple times.
If anything I'm not worried about the stacking in and of itself. It'd be the stacking of it and adept powers that would cause problems. I don't think it's game breaking though considering how much needs to be invested in it to get that.
If anything I'm not worried about the stacking in and of itself. It'd be the stacking of it and adept powers that would cause problems. I don't think it's game breaking though considering how much needs to be invested in it to get that.
I don't think it's game breaking or a good use of karma. I just find it silly in its implications. What are they saying? That you study boxing for a year and learn the secret ways of hitting someone with boxing, and then you study karate for another year and learn how to stack karate punching techniques with it. Then you study Kung Fu and add their secret punching techniques etc? I'm just having trouble rationalising this. It's like someone saying "I was a champion boxer but then I started karate and they taught me that I could also move my hips when I punched. Now I'm hitting harder than I ever did when I just competed as a boxer."
No. Doesn't work. I'm keeping unarmed combat abstract and being content with flavour description and sensible specialisations.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
For a total worth of 70 Karma. The real question is: Is it cheaper than Critical Strike 7? |
[edit - Chargen example deleted as a character can only start play with a maximum rating equal to her MA]
Picking the power up after Chargen it actually can be due to the cost for initiation + MA improvement. To get the +2 PPs (starting at an MA of 6) would cost a total of 73 Karma [34 to increase MA to 7 + 39 to increase it to 8]. Even starting from an MA of 5 it would take 52 Karma, and that's taking into consideration you didn't burn a PP for bioware along the way.
...square brackets & italics instead of "(...)" because of the "(
bug."
I agree it's silly for several reasons, I've studied several martial arts and they've all taught me to throw a punch in pretty much the same way. And even if they didn't it's not like you can punch 3 different ways simultaneously.
I know the only reason I'd take a 2nd martial arts style wouldn't be to max out the DV, it'd be to pick up one of the "non combat" or alternate combat style advantages. (Ninjitsu's bonus to infiltration for example).
To me that part makes sense, You learn a different skill set which is used for a specific thing, and you don't combine them in any way.
Stacking of DV's while not game breaking just feels wrong.
| QUOTE (Ezeckial) |
| Stacking of DV's while not game breaking... |
...actually it can be. Had a character named Hurricane Hannah who maxed out her Critical Strike at 5 (5 MA) based on a 5 Strength along with penetrating strike 3 that gave her the punch equivalent of a sniper rifle. Just about every combat she was in ended up a "one punch" affair even without using her Killing Hands. And she was Human.
If I would have given her the Boxing MA style, her DV could have increased to 9 had I taken the +1 DV option adjustment. Add a pair of Hardliner Gloves and burn a PP for Plastic Bone Lacing and it goes up to 11 (and this is before adding net hits).
Going back to Odshs original post. If you want to be strictly RAW is does only say dice modifiers stack and then only up to a cap of the skill. Doesn't mention the DV's...
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||
...actually it can be. Had a character named Hurricane Hannah who maxed out her Critical Strike at 5 (5 MA) based on a 5 Strength along with penetrating strike 3 that gave her the punch equivalent of a sniper rifle. Just about every combat she was in ended up a "one punch" affair even without using her Killing Hands. And she was Human. If I would have given her the Boxing MA style, her DV could have increased to 9 had I taken the +1 DV option adjustment. Add a pair of Hardliner Gloves and burn a PP for Plastic Bone Lacing and it goes up to 11 (and this is before adding net hits). |
So, your melee-focused physical adept could reliably kill people. And that broke the game?
| QUOTE (Shrike30) |
| Pg 91: "Demolitions skill applies only if the character wants to actually work out how the quantity of explosives needed, as explained under..." Does this make no sense to anyone else? |
I think what this is attempting to say is, if you are creating an explosive from scratch you need the demolition skill. You need to demolition skill to measure and cut the explosives, and to set up the devices associated with it (priming cord & detonator for example.) But to use the explosive you don't need the skill, you just need to click a button.
At least that my interpretation of the line.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) | ||||
So, your melee-focused physical adept could reliably kill people. And that broke the game? |
...I felt so since she didn't need to carry around some easy to notice high powered rifle to do that. Just by looking at her, who would have suspected (unless they were a mage and had a reason to assense her) she was capable of causing that kind of damage. And I almost was going to give her Smashing Blow as well. In one session she totalled up a whopping 21DV (using edge because she was pissed). Let put it this way, can you say head separated from rest of body? Her average final DV was in the 13 - 14 range (with -3 AP) It would take someone in Military Grade Armour to shake off her punch.
[/Derail]
thats been the problem of magic since SR1 or so...
but i think there are some toys in arsenal to help in that area for the average door guard...
but i think there are some toys in arsenal to help in that area for the average door guard...
| QUOTE (the_dunner) | ||
Don't forget Object Resistance. A cyborg is an extremely high tech device, and anything that's targetable constitutes a non-living, non-magic target. (So, physical spells only.) It's got an Object Resistance of at LEAST 4, and arguably higher. This creates a threshold that's nothing to shrug at. |
waitaminute . . he's still got positive essence, so mana-spells would be effective too or not? O.o
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||||||
...I felt so since she didn't need to carry around some easy to notice high powered rifle to do that. Just by looking at her, who would have suspected (unless they were a mage and had a reason to assense her) she was capable of causing that kind of damage. And I almost was going to give her Smashing Blow as well. In one session she totalled up a whopping 21DV (using edge because she was pissed). Let put it this way, can you say head separated from rest of body? Her average final DV was in the 13 - 14 range (with -3 AP) It would take someone in Military Grade Armour to shake off her punch. [/Derail] |
Unless her punch also had the range of a sniper rifle, it isn't game breaking.
| QUOTE |
| he's still got positive essence, so mana-spells would be effective too or not? |
Nope, Cyborgs are treated as objects as far as spells are concerned. The brain isn't targettable unless you take it out of the CCU, in which case the cyborgs pretty much dead anyway, why use a spell when you can just squish it.
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