I had forgotten about the bankruptcy hearing on Friday. That explains why it was released before being final.


I noticed that as well, she has a public LinkedIn profile (linked above).


What?!? You mean we aren't the most important thing in the world to Shadowrun?!?

-M&P

According to her public profile, she has managed gaming companies before.

-M&P

Gaming sounds wide to me. Pen and paper, as you know MindandPen, is a different biz than computer. Which again is a different biz than CCG. And none of which are gambling. Yet they are all gaming.

BlueMax

How long does "final review" usually take, out of curiosity?

Well, my other problem is that the core rules are no different. There have been a lot of little things that need to be fixed in BT for quite a while now. But with how long they've lacked proper unit design software and record sheet capabilities (at least capability to do them quickly and in large batches), that was never going to happen with Total Warfare. It's a shame, but it was a big lost opportunity to fix some long-lingering problems.

And yes, I've very curious to see how A Time of War does. One of these days, I should really get around to reading that PDF.

Depends on what's being reviewed. It's possible that Topps is going to keep things in "final review" through con season, so they can have a publisher for that, then yank the rug out afterwards.

So check the linkedin profile? It nominates specific companies and IPs she has managed - hence my comment on the previous page. for her, Shadowrun is a demotion - it will either be a portfolio of properties, or they are planning to flog something else (wizclicks or something)

It's possible (likely?) this thread has just passed me by, but any chance we can turn back to talking about things that we can control. Like this?

I actually have a long post written to address that, which I'll have to finish this afternoon - promise

-M&P

Amy was hired after our previous accounting person resigned.

I disagree with the "demotion" idea. Check out the bold sections below (a quote from her linked in profile.)



I'm willing to bet these are the reasons she was selected to handle this situation. Total speculation here, but seems likely to me.

I'm pretty ambivalent about this recent announcement. I'm not even certain what it means in terms of the license and it says nothing about the issues that matter to me: the professional relationship with freelancers and the quality of the products. What I can gather from it is that CGL has more time to either radically turn their business around or continue to wallow in past mistakes. I'm not sure which it will be yet.

I'll be hanging out and playing the wait-and-see game. I'm still in touch with current freelancers, they'll give me the honest scoop on how things are going with CGL as time goes on. I'm not too terribly excited about the current product slate anyway, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on much that I wish I were writing. I'll work on some unofficial material and finally put some work into a website I've owned for two years and haven't done much with. And I've dropped a line to Rob about writing for Eclipse Phase, so we'll see where that goes.

Yah!

Street level noir? This mean we'll be seeing more early Dresden Files kind of stuff coming around?

Might be interesting...might fall on it's face...

You mean "after Loren couldn't convice her predecessor to screw Topps"?

I'll be taking the wait and see approach. If I start hearing on these boards, or anywhere else, about freelancers not being paid again, I'll be voting with my wallet against CGL. I would have preferred that the license go to another company so that folks like Adam Jury and AH could get back on board. Then again, Eclipse Phase deserves attention and frankly I'm much more excited by the prospects of future EP releases than I am for the slate of upcoming SR releases.

She has a fascinating background.

9 years in nuclear energy, 8 of those involved the disposal and handling of radioactive waste, apparently. I suppose she's still handling radioactive material to this day. "Decontamination & Decommissioning" or D&D studies, as it says on her profile. No wonder WotC hired her!

Hopefully not. If Topps buys IMR, then look for things to last about a year or less before there's a major shakeup, after which they'll consolidate, dropping extraneous products like Leviathans and Shadowrun, so they can focus on Battletech. And by 'dropping' I mean 'no more', it's done. About a year or two after that, they'll just suddenly close up and spend another year or so trying to sell off that portion of the company.

I think large companies have learned that RPG and miniature gaming is not a market that they really want to be in directly.

Hah, I got two years on her there.

At my FLGS, Shadowrun has a game or two a week and Battletech is shelf dressing. That's despite a healthy trade in 40k, Warmachine/Hordes and a few other miniatures games.

I would love to hear news that IMR wants to drop Shadowrun. That would allow some other company with the right staff to take it over and give it the attention that it deserves.

I think you missed the point of my post. It was prefaced by 'if Topps bought IMR'. It was patterned after what happened to WizKids, and what's happening now to WotC.

Essentially, it would mean the death of the company and eventually the lines. With at least a year of dead time after the company killed each line. A strong license like Battletech or Shadowrun could survive, but I think in Shadowrun's case it would mean 2 years or more of nothing at all. I'm not talking about Topps handing it off to another company.

If we were lucky Topps would just stick it in a closet for a few years. At worst, some subsequent manager would torch the entire line, destroying any remaining material. There were rumors of such happening to dead lines at WizKids, though it's a bit more significant in that case where you're talking about molds, prototypes, and in-house material that outside parties have never seen. At best Tornante (which owns Topps) would produce some other media property 'based' on Shadowrun, much like the 360 game was.

Doesn't matter how it does at your local venue. I've got my own stories of how MechWarrior or DDM was doing well locally compared to HeroClix or SWM. The company sees a bigger picture. If Battletech is what makes more money on a whole than Shadowrun, that's the line that would last longer and be picked up first. After HeroClix, WizKids' #2 line was Pirates. NECA got Pirates as part of their purchase, and has expressed intent to resume the line, but it's been a year and nothing has come of it yet or been previewed to any degree.

That's why I think the last thing any of us want is to see Topps take over IMR and move the production in house. It wouldn't last, it's just not profitable enough, and it would truly have the potential to drive the licenses into the ground, deeper than IMR's bad rep is capable of.

Fortunately, with Topps having had some experience with buying WizKids and running them into the ground, I think that's the last thing they'd want to do as well. Unless Tina, who was brought in essentially post-WizKids, has the itch to run an RPG/Miniatures division as part of Topps.

Boy this crowd is rough.

I don't mean to seem insulting, as that's not the goal here. But what exactly does that matter, or how does it relate? I don't quite understand how your experience with a single store should be an example as a statement across the whole industry. Additionally, I'm really not sure what the relevance was to the topic at large? I can understand you aren't interested in Battletech, but it seems as if you're more interested in bashing the game simply because it is there (at CGL). If there's issues with CGL management (and there are), keep them with the management. Don't let that bleed over onto an unrelated target. Battletech isn't to blame for the problems the company had. Some folks long associated more specifically with Battletech? Sure. But not the game.

Ah, but it may be that Battletech is to blame because it's keeping Catalyst afloat enough to hold on to Shadowrun.

More seriously, I think that's where some of the analysis we've seen has slipped up. It was coming from people who were Shadowrun people, and almost completely ignored the fact that Battletech exists. I wouldn't say Shadowrun is insignificant to the equation, but it is only part of the equation. A part, I suspect, that is smaller than Battletech in terms of generating income for the company.

I used to think this, until SR4A was at Borders and Barnes and Noble. Ain't never seen a Battletech book at a bookstore in the 21st century. I wouldn't doubt if the SR sales were higher. When they finally get off their duffs and print A Time of War, they could make some money. Especially , if they started printing books to go with A Time of War. And I can't wait for the 27th Anniversary Boxed Set, I hope its being sold at a profit.

Whoever got SR back into bookstores, they deserve some massive kudos.

Bluemax

Its funny you say that because not two years ago, I saw a Battletech display at my local Borders.

But I wouldn't spend too much time trying to reading the tea leaves. Only the folks with the sales data know the answer to this question.

I'm saying what I said; where I live Shadowrun is a stronger seller than Battletech. I'm not attacking Battletech by saying that it has no play anywhere I shop or game, I'm saying that it isn't a going concern. That may be different where you live, but I don't personally know anyone who still plays it.

I think when they finally get the Anniversary Boxed Set out, whatever Anniversary that happens to be, will be a great time for a display at Bookstores.

Boxed Set, A Time of War, the new Map Packs. If that wouldn't make a good display of new material, what would?

I can't think of anything new for SR4A that says display. Can you lads help me?

BlueMax

See, and this is the issue with what is entirely anecdotal information. I can walk into the local Borders and find at least the last six BT books. They do not even have SR4 anywhere on the shelves. Does that mean anything at all? Nope. Without actual sales data, there's no way to guess at which was the larger seller. I'd throw a WAG that Battletech was selling more, simply because they've put out more products in recent years than SR. But again, that really means nothing. It just seems odd to even throw the anecdotal information out there at all. *shrugs*

Easy one. Hot Lone Star babe in armor bikini on a unicorn with a chromed out cyber-drill horn piercing her own belly button. In the background: a troll with cyber limbs eating a hand grenade with one hand and carrying around his motorcycle in the other. Hiding in an alley: roach bug spirit with shoulder mounted sawed off assault cannon and cyber foot anchors.

Mesh

I am in, how do I buy this?

BlueMax

I'm still writing the module, but the primary objective of the project is to make it into a display.

Mesh

Oh. I thought you meant an actual collar and leash, never mind then.

Sure and the people who initially started this point were giving anecdotal battletech points to show why it is taking time away from SR. The entire point start to finish is just based on personal opinions from anecdotal information. So why rail against the SR side of the argument?

According to her yes.

But since this is a conspiracy I mean speculation thread lets look at it.

She and the other defectors about non-payment(batteltech guys weren't getting paid and were willing to wait for some reason) made a fuss when oh about 2 months before the license was renewed. Hmm why would game people who like write games try to spoil things for a company they work for right before the license is renewed. I wonder, could it have had nothing to do with the non-payments and could many of there facts been lets say skewed (I wouldn't want to call them liars after all, unhinged maybe but not liars) in order to get the license for themselves. I mean no one would back stab, skew facts, misrepresent people, defame people in order to acquire a license where they could make more money right?

Well since he was talking about inserting a cyber penis somewhere leashes definitely could have been involved. For pain, fun or both.

I'm just letting you know what it looks like where I live. I don't concider myself a pillar of the community or claim to have my finger anywhere near the pulse, but there's no market for BT here. You can go ahead and infer what you want on that.

But you are right that Battletech has gotten more money and attention and has gotten more product to shelves under IMR. That would be the very reason why I believe another company would be a better fit. I'd love to see the sales numbers though, but I think we have about as much chance of that happening as seeing Loren Coleman face the consequences of his actions.

I think you should name names or not make posts like this.

As someone who left Catalyst to do my own thing[s], I don't like being lumped into a group of "defectors," "defamers," etc.

I think people should stop making insulting posts in general on this issue. I think my point is why is it okay when bashing one side of the argument but not the other?

And to jump on Adam's bandwagon, I would like to once again ask people not to cast aspersions on the people who left Catalyst. They did so for their reasons, and trying to have a public conversation about it puts them in a very difficult position if they want to keep private things private. It's unfair to them, so I'd like it not to happen.

Jason H.

I must not have gotten the conspiracy memo, since I started my fuss in 2008.

Also, the reason why so many of the freelancers acted up when they did was because the whole thing about Loren L. Coleman and the bank account draws started to come to light. That impacted the confidence many freelancers had in the ability to get long-delayed checks.

Oh yeah totally. I called it a conspiracy for a reason. There can be legitimate reasons for why people left and why they were angry. But there does seem to be a common theme going in this thread that there is Mr. Evil and everyone else on the other side has done no wrong. I suspect both sides could of handled things better and most acts were mistakes and not intentional wrong doings. But I trust in incompetence.

Bashing anyone on any side is not ok.

Maybe SR is still outselling BT, just like it was confirmed back in 2007 by Adam:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18131

Lars

If Tiger Eyes isn't sick of these threads she'll likely come in here to set the record straight again but if my recollection of events is correct she has stated repeatedly that.

1) She left of her own free will. She had certain interpersonal choices and relationship issues, even ethical ones but ultimately she walked out the door, she wasn't forced to do so.

While I want to distance myself quite a bit from what Killfist is suggesting I do get his salient point. Dumpshock has become the attack vehicle of choice for slinging mud at CGL/IMR Jason and others. It's gotten quite personal to be honest and the amount of accusations that get flung here are just shocking. But no one calls the folks who call IMR/CGL thieves and liars on their behaviors from a moderation standpoint usually. It's become acceptable, but somehow questioning Jennifer or the other sandstorm's folks motives seems to be beyond the pale.

EDIT AND ADDENDUM: I want to be absolutely clear that I'm not accusing them of trying to undermine to get the license, however frankly I can't see it as beyond the realm of possibility. Some of them are very passionate about the game but have burned their bridges with the company and people that currently make the game. Passionate people do strange things all the time. I want to believe the best about everyone involved even people I disagree with or even people like Loren who by confirmed accounts F'd up, or like Bobby who did the same on a much smaller and different scale. But I cannot rule out the possibility or how some could get that perception.

Maybe we should make it a custom to re-post quotes of all the people who left where they state that there is no evil conspiracy™ and that they left for the reasons they stated? Might save them the trouble of having to come in here every iteration of this thread to set the record straight...

Lars,
Facts? information? This is a speculation thread. Tone it up a little. sheesh.
Next thing you know, people will be calm and rational.
You are on watch buddy.

/me puts on his "Who watches the Watchmen?" button.

BTW, I *totally* remembered this but my search foo failed me and I gave up. OK, I remembered something like it but not enough to search effectively.

BlueMax

This isn't about sides. It's about accuracy; saying "She and the others" is not clear. I wasn't telling you not to say what you were saying, but to be clear about who you were saying it about, so they could reply in turn, as necessary.

But it is a conspiracy theory we don't know who could be involved. It could go all the way to the top. And this conspiracy is so deep we do not know who the top is. Dud duh duhhh.

The covers for both Attitude and Sixth World Almanac, in my opinion, say "Show me off!!"