I think a lot of people will be house ruling the Matrix Bonuses. In fact I thnk that was stated waaaay back. The big issue most have with the way they're implemented is a 100% lack of Setting basis for the mechanics as are. I don't care that they don't match the last system, because they don't match the SR3 system, but throughout its years there has been a strong consistency of Setting to Rules in Shadowrun and for three editions the information was backwards compatible for how things worked too. That's why I dislike SR4, the Wireless Matrix 2.0 that appeared almost overnight in a poor implementation (IMHO) when it could have been evolved out of what was already in place. The mechanical differences between the two Magical Traditions vanishing and being purely flavour (I dare say there were later mods to this, I don't know, but in the core...) for a single one system for all. Decking becoming a far more mundane feeling hacking and rigging being rolled into that too (not like you couldn't be a decker-rigger before, classless system) eliminating the "tech identity" to one umbrella.

I like a lot of what I am seeing for SR5 and will be getting it. I can happily tie in the setting material from my SR123 library with the decade gap to make sense for the SR5 setting material. But the lack of sensible canonical reasoning for the Boni system. Nope. Houseruled to fit the universe. All the coming up with plausible "maybes" for how it works doesn't work with the Setting Material that is presented. It's not Lazy Game design as some have said (mostly people are happy with the concept) its just poor Workd Building that's created an inconsistency with Mechanics vs Setting (or Gamey as has been said) its bad for my noggin and I've already said I'm rewriting bits of the 10year gap to make it fit with the Sixth World I love and doubles so for folks who know the SR4 "decade" material.

I guess one way they could address this is if we flip the logic around and think of the wireless bonus as an extreme SOTA issue.

Normal gear you basically have to upgrade/maintain periodically to keep your damage/bonues/effects at same level.

I guess one way they could address this is if we flip the logic around and think of the wireless bonus as an extreme SOTA issue. <snip>
Just one way of thinking, not saying it covers all bases though.....

Except it's actually isn't as you can get that dice pool mod back if you bend your ass for matrix raping.

Also i love how nobody has yet managed to explain how this change to smartlink makes any sense what so ever in world(i mean smartlink straight up stopped doing what it's supposed to do by fluff unless you connect it to matrix)

Because, as with every new edition, there's been a shift. A change, an overhaul in how the universe works, a rippling reality-warp that shifts every paradigm a little bit to match the new rules. Smartlinks straight-up stopped giving a -2 TN about eight years ago, which was "what its' supposed to do by fluff," right? Same thing, here.

Because, as with every new edition, there's been a shift. A change, an overhaul in how the universe works, a rippling reality-warp that shifts every paradigm a little bit to match the new rules. Smartlinks straight-up stopped giving a -2 TN about eight years ago, which was "what its' supposed to do by fluff," right? Same thing, here.

The new Smartlink doesn't actually make it easier to hit when it's offline, it only makes it easier to hit if you're already so good at hitting that you're outperforming your gun on a regular basis, and even the online version doesn't give you a huge improvement (+2 dice again?) and presumably the difference between Internal and In-My-Glasses Smartlinks will again be nil, which leads to the following questions:

"Why play a character with cyberware?" becomes a very valid question in SR5.

Because, as with every new edition, there's been a shift. A change, an overhaul in how the universe works, a rippling reality-warp that shifts every paradigm a little bit to match the new rules. Smartlinks straight-up stopped giving a -2 TN about eight years ago, which was "what its' supposed to do by fluff," right? Same thing, here.

That's the kind of question that's probably worth having a thread dedicated to it.

Seriously why the frak is this so hard to understand?

"Why play a character with cyberware?" becomes a very valid question in SR5.

"Why play a character with cyberware?" becomes a very valid question in SR5.

Skinlink solved that problem in SR4, for the most part.

Additionally, executives have learned to store some of their private data in wired nodes, meaning that runners have to track down those specific pieces of machinery if they want a portion of that reward."

Signal rating 0 was good enough, no need for magical skinlinks.

Honestly I do love the fact you are bashing the new rules taking smartlink as an example. The SR technology which should be inferior to using iron sights to begin with.
It is (since like ever) one of those technologies which can't work under no circumstances, if physical laws apply.

Not if you took the mesh network idea seriously.

Skinlink solved that problem in SR4, for the most part.

I'm not sure what you mean - how can a hacker hack an ivory-tower-mode signal 0 PAN?

Huh? It's a nearly retrotech piece of technology now, with the capabilities of modern sights with embedded targeting computers. The only handwavy part is how it syncs the targeting reticule on your field of vision.

Honestly I do love the fact you are bashing the new rules taking smartlink as an example. The SR technology which should be inferior to using iron sights to begin with.
It is (since like ever) one of those technologies which can't work under no circumstances, if physical laws apply.

By routing his signal through the flower pot, color-change wallpaper or gang RFID in a meter radius round your character. Makes hacking a mobile target harder, but everyone has to stop moving eventually.

You need to know that the fact that the character is withing a meter of this or that meshed device, which is itself quite difficult if you don't have a visual and the character isn't on the matrix.

And hopefully it will do the same for SR5.

Thats nice to say the only. It is also the only function this thing has....And really we are talking hard physics there.

but if you want to eliminate the threat of yourself being hacked, skinlink, not signal 0, is the way to go.

smartlinks can use induction pads.

Which, incidentally, are what skinlink is.

That starts to really stretch credulity given the timeframe that hacking attempts are made in Shadowrun, and the ease by which they can be conducted. A single hacker can just sit in a public area and grief a person every few seconds by bricking or disrupting their electronics and cyberware. The game obviously doesn't get into the full logical consequences of its mechanics, and everything is written under the assumption you are facing opponents at some level of cyberwarfare parity, but it should be kept in mind when writing the background details and shadow-comments for what is rather obvious inference from the rules.

The other think to remember about wireless connections is what happens as soon as the guns come out?

At least with my players, the jammers get turned on to max.

All of a sudden all the wireless connects go on the fritz!

And it pretty much puts the decker right back to where he was in edition 1.

The geeky guy who is a lousy shot and carries a deck.

Which, incidentally, are what skinlink is.

WOW that is Soooo cyberpunk!

It makes perfect sense to play a cyberpunk game with no cyberware.

Because I don't need an edge.
I mean it is not like there is magic out there where someone can roast you by just looking at you, or summon a spirit to ruin your day, or can run on walls or break the laws of physics.

No reason what so ever.

I tell you the more powerful the magic gets, the more everyone else is going to be using cyberware just to stay in the game.

And they are going to set it up so that it can't be nerfed by a hacker.
Especially when most cyber ware was first developed for the military.

No, it's not. An induction pad only communicates with another induction pad. A skinlink allows an external device to communicate with the user's brain via DNI using the body's electromagnetic field. Induction pads require one in your hand and one in the grip of your firearm. In the case of the skinlink, the second pad is your body.

You need to know that the fact that the character is withing a meter of this or that meshed device, which is itself quite difficult if you don't have a visual and the character isn't on the matrix.

When a wireless device needs to pass information to another device in mutual Signal range, it simply sends the data. If the destination is not within this range, for example when you are in the UCAS and trying to speak to Mr. Johnson in Lisbon, the information travels from device to device in a process called routing.

When information is routed between devices, it is non-sequentially sliced into a number of pieces and sent to the recipient via multiple paths; this makes it almost impossible to intercept the traffic except within Signal range of the sender or the receiver, the only places the information is in one readable piece (Capture Wireless Signal, p. 229).

The routing functions of a device are handled by a separate component of hardware than the other functions of the device. This makes the routing process invisible to the user, and allows the device’s node to connect to the Matrix even when it is operating in Hidden mode (p. 223).

Signal rating 0 was good enough, no need for magical skinlinks.

Not if you took the mesh network idea seriously.

You need to know that the fact that the character is withing a meter of this or that meshed device, which is itself quite difficult if you don't have a visual and the character isn't on the matrix.

In summary, sending info to a hidden node is a matter of throwing the information out in random packets, and then letting mesh electronics do the rest.

3 meters. ~10 feet. Almost always going to be within this distance of something that is a meshed device, since pretty much everything is a meshed device in the SR world.

No, it's not. An induction pad only communicates with another induction pad. A skinlink allows an external device to communicate with the user's brain via DNI using the body's electromagnetic field. Induction pads require one in your hand and one in the grip of your firearm. In the case of the skinlink, the second pad is your body.

Ivory Tower isn't hidden, it's not connected to the matrix. You're not using the flower pot as a matrix relay, you're using it as a universal radio emitter. But since your target isn't on the matrix at all, you have to know where it is physically or you don't know what to use as a radio-emitter.
Yes, but how do you know which one to use as your relay if you don't know where the target is because he isn't connected to the matrix at all?

Ivory Tower isn't hidden, it's not connected to the matrix. You're not using the flower pot as a matrix relay, you're using it as a universal radio emitter. But since your target isn't on the matrix at all, you have to know where it is physically or you don't know what to use as a radio-emitter.

Then perhaps you should stop using personalised descriptions and stick to the conventions given in SR4 for the purposes of discussion. That would be active, passive, hidden and offline.

So it's impossible to use another wireless communication protocol between your devices and just block/ignore anything coming from the matrix? Everything wireless has to use stuff that the matrix can interpret?

So it's impossible to use another wireless communication protocol between your devices and just block/ignore anything coming from the matrix? Everything wireless has to use stuff that the matrix can interpret?

Then I admit I had a very wrong picture of how things were working. In my mind, a wireless device could work without ever communicating with the matrix and form a PAN with its own wireless protocol, unintelligible from a matrix standpoint. Which I think should seem like a relatively sound way of being much more secure against hacking.