So there are now 5 threads on CGL and whats happening Jeez!

However this thread seems to have become a topic for EP rather than CGL so seeing as alot of people are going off topic I shall take this time to point people at a fairly new game I played at Megacon check it out it pretty cool.

Alpha Omega

Alpha Omega isn't exactly brand new. The corebook was released by in 2008. It's a beautiful book, a beautiful setting, and a relatively awful ruleset. Interesting mechanic, but really, really overcomplicated.

Hang on, isn't Alpha Omega the name of one of the first roleplaying games ever?

*thinks Metamorphsis Alpha Omega*

Set on a ship floating through the stars, run automatically by a AI gone mad and with a population onboard nuked by radiation and mutated?

Players had to ascend the various levels of the ship with different environments and find a way to unlock the AI of the ship?

Or am I just thinking crazy talk now?

I believe it was Metamorphosis Alpha, no Omega.


Grexul

Has there been any further news regarding the situation? From what I've seen here so far, CGL's loss of the Shadowrun license seems a guarantee; in which case, anybody know of a company that's likely to buy the rights from Topps, or even a group that will form a new company to do so?

Yeah, not paying and/or lying about royalties has a long and dishonorable tradition in the RPG industry. But that doesn't mean that Topps will tolerate it.

Not trying to be funny in the least, but blatant embezzlement to the tune of 100s of 1000s of dollars ((in cash or product)) seems to be a growing trend in the industry as well.

Ah, okay, good to hear that ^^

A friend who has seen companies rise and fall in the gaming industry for years told me yesterday that financial mismanagement is (in his opinion) the leading cause of game company failures. Including his own crash and burn. In his case he blames insanity on his part, but 'mysteriously missing funds' is a significant amount of the rest of the industry failures.

Topps isn't well known to pay on time either and has been sued before because of it, so maybe that doesn't bother Topps as much as we would assume:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/08/28/N..._Autographs.htm

As for Topps knowing about what's going on, it really depends on how well Topps is run. My experience is that certain, rather important things, can be quickly overlooked due to miscommunication or just plain ignorance (not knowing that the information you have in your hands is important to someone in the company). There's a lot of information that someone in the company might know, just not all the folks that need that information.

Which was later turned into a setting fro the Amazing Engine RPG, called Metamorphosis Alpha to Omega


Lars

Whilst we are doing some threadjacking re: Metamorphosis: Alpha, here is the Wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphosis_Alpha

I remember reading an old magazine which had a review of the original game, and later bought the Amazing Engine version.

Never got into the later editions.

I'm hoping that Frank's efforts to shine light on the scandal caused a chain of events to let Topps be better informed of the circumstances; even better, result in the new company knowing who they can and cannot trust when/if they rehire old CGL employees.

Also, because of the sheer volume of this thread's off-topic-ness, which books are now on hold until this legal fiasco is over? And when will CGL lose its license again? I'm not wholly familiar on the time frame, but it matters to me because I'm not buying e-books until I'm certain Catalyst isn't getting any of the profit.

And, if CGL does not lose the license? Because, until we see something official announced, nothing has been decided.
Additionally, if CGL *DOES* lose the license, mot likely what will happen is: New company will not keep those books
in any way, shape, or form(unless it is founded by people who were already involved in Shadowrun, which is unlikely),
and the sellers of those pdf's would no longer be able to sell them, since the company that made them no-longer has
the license or permission to sell them.

This is all speculation at this point, because who can predict these things, but what you said isn't necessarily true. As far as I'm aware of the situation, when FanPro ended and Catalyst took over, part of the arrangement was Catalyst bought FanPro's existing stock, including books that were in development. They stamped a Catalyst logo on them and out they went to the distributors. Adam or Rob Boyle would know more about this than I would, but there were a couple of books I wrote under the FanPro establishment that later came out as Catalyst books.

Again, we can't say that is what would happen in this hypothetical case, because no one knows. But either outcome is a possibility.

Again, I'd ask people to refrain from speculation. Nothing is guaranteed in this situation. CGL management has had various discussions with Topps management; once there is some kind of outcome from those discussions, I'll be sure to tell people here.

Also, I hope to have an updated list of what books are not available later today.

Jason H.

I thought it was pretty well established that Topps knows what's going on. Unless I'm misremembering from previous threads, the Randall letter indicated they were informed by CGL management. Additionally, I thought some of the uhh...less happy freelancer crowd had commented on providing a different opinion to Topps. Why would we be thinking they aren't aware at this point?

That's not the point: Jason was referring to "CGL's loss of the Shadowrun license seems a guarantee". And I haven't seen any fact that confirms this.

Agreed. I haven't seen anything that guarantees either side of that equation yet. I highly doubt anybody will until after the decision is made. My post was referring more towards virgileso and Cergorach. Sorry, I should have quoted.

Catalyst didn't acquire FanPro's physical stock, actually.

The SR and BT license comes up for renewal May 16th.

Let me ask, supposing I bought an SR3 pdf. Who would the money go to? Catalyst didn't write any of the SR3 material. Would the money go wholly to Wizkids? Would it go wholly to Catalyst? Or is this all secret? Would buying pdfs help the people who put in the hard work, compared to buying them as used books?

Catalyst. Regardless of who originally published Shadowrun material, Catalyst is the publisher of it currently.

Okay, thanks, I wasn't sure. But they did take over books in development, correct?

Yup.

That may be because Catalyst terminated (as in employment, not SR style) Troy Garner, who ran the BattleShop and did all the in house shipping and answered all the customer service emails.

Tara Bills is now doing those jobs for CGL, and she's only working one or two days a week, I believe (to the best of my knowledge). You may want to try emailing more frequently, and/or emailing some other CGL emails. "Invoicing" followed by @catalystgamelabs.com will get through to Randall Bills (her manager) directly.

Odd question: I have a poor memory. Is that Troy's full name? For some reason its firing some of the neurons but not all of them.

/me hits the soykaf harder.

BlueMax

I'm sorry to hear that. Troy took care of some difficult billing for me via email when I bought Vice. I was impressed that someone was able to address my emails in real time and bring a solution right away.

It's these positive experiences with CGL folks that make hearing about all the current situation feel like such a betrayal. Plus it's a bad time for anyone to be out of work.

So it goes to the owners and, indirectly, to anyone with a permanent salary over there. So if I were to sit on my hands until the matter is settled, and publicly say "please settle this matter because I can't support a company which is failing to properly pay its creative people", that would be a good thing, even if it's only a tiny good thing.

Just remember that if matters don't get settled, it's quite likely that those nag-free PDFs are gone like tears in rain.

When there is extreme embezzlement, attempts at tax fraud, failure to pay its writers on larger than normal scale for an RPG company, a number of employees no longer working for the company (up to and including ethical reasons), and absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator, I don't see how I'm committing 'rampant speculation'. It's more along the lines of a logical conclusion barring narratively strange events some would decry as a Deus Ex Machina (his uncle dies and leaves him a couple million in inheritance). True speculation would be theorizing that SR4LE is locked in customs because the IRS is seizing his inventory.

It's still speculation, even if you can make an argument that it's likely. Topps may decide to give CGL breathing room to pay for the license over time, meaning they would not have to come up with the money immediately. And it's still possible that CGL may be able to borrow money from somewhere, even now. No one can really say anything for certain at this point.

I can't imagine that's how it'll go.

I mean, we're talking about Fan Pro holding a product, already made, that costs $0 to produce, $0 to ship or maintain, and is guaranteed income. They'd have to be stupid to let them just disappear.

First, not everyone would characterize the facts as you have. Second, your phrase "absolutely nothing positive being done by the owner/perpetrator" is speculation. Thus, conclusions based on it are also speculation.

Jason H.

Any statement about the future is speculation by definition, anyway.

I can, vividly: The traditional publishers are very sceptical about PDFs – even more after WotC tried & cancelled it.

I'm sorry, do you mean "Topps" in this statement?

There wasn't extreme embezzlement? Jennifer Harding & Adam Jury didn't leave for ethical reasons, at least one of them being asked to commit fraud? A number of employees (freelancers included) are no longer working for the company, and it's firmly established some are upset with what's being done. The Limited Edition book isn't locked in customs? These facts look pretty cut and dry to me. The very fact a fair number of people are exceedingly upset, enough to feed Frank accurate information so it can be brought to light and I've yet to see/hear of anything positive about the situation concerning the Colemans to ease concerns; and I don't count vague "we are doing fine, please ignore the fire", because that's honestly more speculative than the conclusions I'm reaching.

Even then, speculation isn't against the rules. This thread is specifically titled to be about speculation. Being told that I shouldn't do it is kind of insulting.

It's also not against the rules to ask someone to refrain from being too hasty. Nobody's threatening you with the banhammer, they're just disagreeing with some conclusions that you seemed to be treating as an inevitability in your earlier posts. Put down the soykaf, everything will be OK.

We've got Ken Lay going to withdraw $4.2 billion while executing a 720 with a half twist. Can he do it folks? Wait and see, right after we watch Robert Vesco wire $56.3 million to his Caymans account at 425 miles per hour! Extreeeeeeeme embezzlement this Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!

Sorry. What's funny is I already edited it once to change it from "Wiz Kids". These corporate shennanigans get me all messed up.

Jason is doing his best to play damage control within the limits of his capacity. He just wants to keep wild and unconfirmed rumors to a minimum.

That's not a nice thing to say.

I mean that only within the capacity of his position, not his mental abilities. Obviously he is not allowed to give out much information.

I should point out at this point that I don't really have a dog in this hunt any longer, so those who want to say I'm toeing the company line can politely go and get stuffed. I prefer to take the only logical course open to any of us: Wait and see what shakes out. We can't see the future, any of us, so we're all just kind of in a holding pattern for the time being.


It hasn't been proved one way or the other as yet whether embezzlement actually occurred at all. While I'm inclined to think that yes, there was embezzlement, my opinion doesn't actually count for much. Nor does yours. In any event, nothing's been conclusively proved; that makes this statement speculation.


That is, indeed, why Jennifer says she left. Adam has steadfastly refused to comment publicly on the matter, and more power to him for that stance. Again, speculation (at least as far as why Adam left CGL).


I speak for no one but myself here: I didn't leave because Loren may or may not have been dipping into the till. It didn't help the situation, to be sure, but that's not why I left. I left for two reasons. First, I hadn't been paid for my work on Running Wild (a situation that has since been rectified). Second, I'm not all that wild about the current slate of products; they don't match up with my tastes or my views on the game world, and they certainly don't lend themselves to my writing style. At least I don't think they do.

So, I'm not a freelancer for CGL anymore. This could change in the future, with the right set of circumstances, and Jason and I have had what I consider very productive talks to this end. Again, we'll have to wait and see what shakes out.

But saying why any particular employee or freelancer has left the company...unless you're quoting a particular individual about their particular circumstances, you're speculating.


Can't really argue with you there, I suppose. Everyone involved seems to agree that there is, in fact, a container filled with SR4A LEs somewhere in the customs system. You're automatic assumption elsewhere that it's a tax lien against Loren L Coleman is the sheerest of speculation.


A fair number of those facts are suppositions, on your part and the part of a lot of other people.


Oh, yes. It's obviously not speculation because someone fed it to Saint Frank Trollman, the patron saint of shit-stirrers, axe-grinders, and the profoundly negative everywhere.

Frank's self-righteous hatchetjobs have been the cause for a lot of trouble in the past, and this present situation is no different. People putting too much weight in his statements are setting themselves up for a series of falls, IMO, and I hope when they start happening they're not too severe, because some of the people I think are going to fall along with him are people I consider friends.


No, but most of the speculation that's come out of this has been, shall we say, hyperbolic at best. While it's not against the rules, it doesn't help anything, either.

You're young. You'll bounce back.

"Extreme embezzlement" is a very loaded term. Until you can come up with a definition that people can objectively agree to, I'm going to politely disagree that the term represents a cut-and-dry fact. I would also not put the claim of fraud into the cut and dry column.

The fact that people leaked information shows that they are angry. I don't blame them for being angry; I'm angry too, at a wide number of things. That anger, though, does not "guarantee" that CGL will lose the Shadowrun license. It indicates that there are problems at CGL, which no one is disputing. That's why I've been on these boards frequently, talking to people, etc., to try to communicate what I can and relieve some of the tension that has cropped up to the best of my ability.

I never said speculation was against the rules. I asked you not to do it because it doesn't help the situation and further inflames a situation that has already caused severe strain on a significant number of people. I'm sorry you find the request insulting; it was not intended as such.

Jason H.

Well Jason, the numbers we've seen seem to indicate between $600,000 and $800,000 dollars.

To the average RPG buyer that seems pretty extreme. Now.. it's not on par with multibillion dollar firms or international banking embezzlements, but over half a million to almost a million dollars is a lot of coin.

I don't think acting like that term is strange is being 100% forthright. Even the low ball number is over half a million dollars. That's pretty extreme.

I didn't say the term was strange--I said it was not cut-and-dry fact. You have your interpretation of it. Others have theirs. All I'm saying is that not everyone will agree that "extreme embezzlement" is the proper label for what happened. Some may feel it is completely appropriate, and that's their right (and to be clear, I'm not going to argue that point one way or the other). But that does not suddenly turn a subjective term into an objective one.

Jason H.

Do you not consider White-Wolf a traditional publisher(at leased in terms of RPG companies they are)? They have had the Digital Initiative for awhile and the announcement was made earlier this year on rpg.net that they should begin phasing out there print books in favor of POD and PDF before the year is over as it now looks like they have a POD publisher again after Lulu raised their prices. Its still not official yet but White-Wolf would like to go totally PDF. Steve Jackson also mentioned in his shareholders thing he does every year that while PDF sales are abysmal, they are going up in sales where as the print books are going down. He was guessing in the next 2-3 years PDFs may start to break even in initial sales for the time invested in making them.

Ugg. I hope they don't go totally PDF.. that would NOT be a good way to go till more people have Padds in hand. I have collected WW for over a decade and have over 4 GB in whitewolf pdfs but yeah... even I would be aginst that.

Keep your hard copy and sell the PDF's to augment your hardcopy sales.

Part of the problem with PDF's is the fact that you don't get anything in 'hand'. People hate paying money for a few electrons flying over the air. It feels like they're paying for something that costs nothing to produce (( I know it's not so. I'm just saying)) they want something in hand to show for their money.

I've got a dozen bookcases full of RPGs, and I'd choose them over PDF everytime. But I ALSO buy the PDFs to augment the hardcopy.

Make the Hardcopy normal price. Sell the PDF for half or a third of hard copy cover price. Make loads of money.

No personal attacks.

ToS