Sounds good to me, couple of things:

1) There are two options to get through the ward.

a) Break through it
b) Pass through it

If you choose option A for the spirit, it is going to set off alarms.
If you choose option B for the spirit, then there is a chance (and a pretty good one) that it doesn't get through.

My assumption is that you want to go for option B, am I correct?

@Lobo:

Mel is going to get a handle on what other devices are running in the artifact room.

In addition to the cameras, there are 3 maglocks and 1 sensor suite in the room.

Okay, sensor suite...what info can I get on it? I assume I have to Snoop it? If so, I will.

Yes, and no problem:

Hack on the fly:
18d6.hits(5)=8

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=2

Now the Snoop
15d6.hits(5)=4

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=3

The suite itself has the following sensors:

Ultrasound
Motion Detector
Omni-Directional Microphone
Camera w/ Lowlight and Thermographic

I need to read on that (and I don't have my book at work), to make sure I understand how wards work in this edition. I'll post about this tonight or tomorrow.

My idea was to intentionally set off an alarm, just to see what it is that they do to protect themselves against spirit intrusion, which is always a possibility when you maintain a ward. Maybe it's not such a great idea if it's likely to increase the on-site security, or if Snap can likely pass through the ward without setting off an alarm.

If it helps... an astral form can synch and push through a Ward by rolling MAG + CHA [Astral] vs. 2 x (Ward's Force) Basically in this case, it would pit your spirit's Fx2 limited by its astral limit vs. the Ward's Fx2

No problem.

Here is the relevant passage from the book:

If you’ve got a mana barrier in your way, you’ve got a
couple options other than “give up.” You can try breaking
through violently, or you can try passing through
subtly.
If you want to break through a mana barrier, you need
to deal with its Armor and Structure Ratings, just as you
would with any other barrier. A mana barrier has Armor
and Structure ratings equal to its Force. Break it quickly,
because they regain their full Structure at the end of every
Combat Turn. The creator of a mana barrier is instantly
aware of any attack on the barrier.
Awakened characters have discovered other methods
of forcing their way through an astral barrier besides
the use of brute force. You can press through
a barrier with a Magic + Charisma [Astral] v. barrier’s
Force x 2 Opposed Test. If you get any net hits, you
pass through the barrier and emerge on the other side.
You can bring a number of friends, spirits, active foci,
sustained spells, or other astral forms with you, one for
each net hit you score. If the barrier scores more hits,
you fail to break through.

Hmm.

This brings up the question can Spirits actually pass through the barrier?

It says "Awakened Characters can press through" and you can bring spirits with you.

Any thoughts? After rereading it, it seems to indicate that the only recourse a spirit would have to get through ward is to break through it.

ETA - I was posting at the same time as Jack - Jack, you think spirits count as Awakened Characters? Or does it say somewhere else that they too can pass through?

I think it counts as being not particularly well written. "Awakened Characters" is a heavily meta term. I'd allow it, but I'd probably have the spirit give up if it doesn't get through the first time. I haven't checked Street Grimoire to see if there are updated rules or not. For instance, I think a free spirit could probably do this with no question.

Ok - I didn't want to overthink it - my concern was that it said Awakened Characters and then that they could "bring spirits with them" - seeming to indicate that spirits couldn't.

My first instinct was that spirits could do it.

Ok this is even more complicated than I anticipated. A couple of questions for now.

1) Can an awakened character pass through freely when it's not carrying anything magical with her, and she is not perceiving the astral?

2) Does pressing through alert the creator of the ward? Can pressing through be retried at will?

Of course I'm interested to hear what the conclusion will be about spirits going through wards. I tend to think that awakened characters is just a terrible wording here, that just basically assumes (wrongly) that only characters care about this.

Here's my feeling - feeling mind you, as it doesn't say otherwise.

1) An awakened character who is not astrally perceiving can walk right through a mana barrier, the same as a mundane.

2a) I don't know. I'll have to think about it, as it has LOTS of in game repercussions.
2b) I would say trying again would be like failing a task, you could do so, but at -2 dice each time.

I'm thinking that spirits can try to get past wards, but will not attempt to do so more than once per service.

I think that goes without saying. Wards prevent astral forms from passing through. If you don't have an astral form (i.e. you are not projecting, perceiving, or otherwise dual natured), a Ward doesn't really do anything.


I think the attempt to press through is not supposed to alert the owner. With that said, I think a glitch/critical glitch on the test should alert the owner, maybe with a critical glitch counting for astral intersection. I also agree that a spirit would consider trying to pass through a ward as a service.

You might want to check Street Grimoire, there are a bunch of new wards in there and their description may shed light on how these wards are supposed to work.

I guess we're playing with Street Grimoire? I haven't looked at it at all, nor have I bought it. Is it going to be meaningful to the game and my character?

It's been in the Dropbox for several months, I believe it's available. It gives some new spells and new initiation stuff. Probably have to check with Lobo to see what he's willing to allow into the game. It's not written particularly well and there's not a small amount of broken stuff.

I would say we can look at stuff in Street Grimoire on a case by case basis if you want to use it - in case something is broken.

As far as Spirits passing through Mana Barriers, I found the Weakness "Evanescence" on page 101 of the Street Grimoire, which gives spirits with it +3 dice to pass through Mana Barriers, thus answering the question as to whether or not they can.

I definitely think that an unsuccessful attempt to cross through the barrier would not alert the owner. However, as Jack said, a glitch would, and a critical glitch causing intersection certainly sounds reasonable.

I think that I'm going to make passing through the barrier not alert the owner, otherwise wards become something that is literally impossible to bypass without setting alarms off all over the place, which I think makes for bad games - it definitely skews in favor of the players, but I'm not all that opposed to that.

Does that help?

Any more info that you need?

Just checking in with everyone, been quiet the last couple days.

Is there anything you guys need from me?

Just in case Chrome is waiting, here is the summoning for another Force 4 Spirit of Man

12d6.hits(5)=5 - reduced to 4 by limit

Spirit Resists
4d6.hits(5)=0

So four services

Snap resists Drain
13d6.hits(5)=4

No Drain.

What else can I do to help?

We are also waiting on Grease to pick what exact sensors he has in his drone - which I think will modify what Jack does next.

Oh sorry, my bad.

So I'm still debating about just having the spirit go attack the ward and see what kind of response is triggered. If we were planning to hit the place in a day or two, I wouldn't hesitate, but since we want to come back in like 5 hours or something, it might be a bit risky to let them know there might be magic involved in an attack.

So instead, I'm thinking of either having the spirit scout the place for drones and weapons, to get a better idea of the opposition, have the spirit search for the top security guy, so we know at least where he is specifically, since I suspect that he's the top threat to us, or just having it scout the entire property for auras.

Anyone has thoughts on this?

Ahh- I missed you were allowing me to do that

So currently, the fly-spies have: "Camera, Omni-directional microphone, directional microphone, laser microphone, ultrasound, radio signal scanner, olfactory sensor, motion sensor."

I think I would like to swap out thermographic vision for the directional microphone. The other sensors seem like they would be handy enough that we'd want to keep them. I will also edit my IC post to reflect meeting Stone, as opposed to just talking like I already knew him.

-DrZ

Thermographic and Low-Light are modifications to the camera rather than an additional sensor in the suite. I believe it is supposed to be paid for separately, just like it was a pair of glasses or goggles. I know we're hand-waving this, just wanted to try to explain how I understand it works.

Re: The Spirit. I would definitely not do anything that might risk tipping them off to our presence.

Makes sense about the thermo and lowlight - i.e. they are upgrades to the camera rather than sensors.

Which means Grease is going to have to pay 500:nuyen: per drone for the thermo, since it isn't free, and while I don't mind retroactively installing it, it shouldn't be free on top of it

I modified my post to indicate that Jack saw the guards through the thermo vision - Jack, do you need any more info from me?

Don't think so. I'll update my post in a bit to account for seeing the patrols.

One drone will remain aloft recording the movements of the guards on a wide-angle thermo. The other drone is going to follow the previous orders I gave it to start checking out the eastern entrance to the house, starting at the carport area and then checking out the mudroom area, staying 100m away at all times and hiding to the best of its ability.

Anything particular that it is looking for?

How long are you all staying and watching?

Mel, any actions?

In case you missed this Grease, are you haggling over the price, or should I just post IC what time the stuff will be ready?

She'll quietly watch the others for a few minutes.

The drone is going to use its sensor suite to attempt to perceive any cameras/sensors/locks at the two entrances. It will also record what it is seeing. Following that, I would like it to attempt to use the laser microphone on any windows to rooms that have lights turned on to try to pick up any conversations.

I don't want to be onsite for longer than 30 minutes.

@Jack,

Ok:

1) The guards maintain a fairly standard pattern over the time you are there.

2) The drone sent to the carport shows a camera above the door, and then another camera over the east entrance to the house, but no sensor suite that you can detect.

1) Are they moving around or mostly static? How far out are they patrolling? Staying by the house or are they covering all of the estate?

2) Cool, good place to start. Is there anyway to cross-reference the list of slaved devices Mel pulled up to try to figure out what's what?

1) Two of the teams are mobile, maintaining a sweeping pattern, one on the west side of the house, one on the east side. The third team is relatively stationary, near the house, no more than 20-25 meters from it - acting as a bridge between the two other teams. At most, the moving teams (at least in the time you watch) never travel more than 300 meters from the house.

2) She can probably narrow it down to 4 or 5 cameras, of which 2 of them are the actual ones. It would then require Marking and Snooping to verify which is which.

@lobo: I am not haggling over price. 5 hours seems like a long time to wait for something as trivial as a hardened case, especially since it isn't illegal. I suppose we have the advantage of not running our SIN (fake or otherwise) on a purchase in the CAS zone, in particular for this type of item. Stone won't be replacing Chapel anytime soon!

@lobo2: as long as I'm paying for it, could I also get low-light on the drones cameras?

Finally- is there anything else you need from me? Ill check in periodically tonight to see if you'd like to post in response. Did I end up learning anything from my networking I could share with the group (Or is that something that is going to take a few more hours?)

-DrZ

So Grease's agenda: to gather more intel, make the deal with Stone, analyze the floor plan that the team is providing for weak spots for drone entry, dissiminate any intel gathered to the rest of the team, and meet up with the team after he's got the cases from Stone. I can either post these types of things IC tonight; or I don't have a problem with Lobo posting the gist of them during the day to keep the plot moving along.

Thanks!
-DrZ

First off, let me apologize for not posting last night - bunch of stuff going on at home, and my son had a basketball game. I realized this morning that I left my computer on with me logged in to this website, so it appeared I was logged in the whole time

Anyway:


@Dr. Z

1) You are correct - the delay indicates him having to get a couple of stolen cases - you could walk up and try and buy one, but then that would potentially be an issue with your Fake SINS.

2) No problem adding lowlight, that brings your cost up to 1,000 per drone (so 2,000 in total). This will only be for the Fly Spies, so any other drones are out of luck (and you are almost out of money - this will bring you down to 890

3) If you go to Post #349 in the OOC thread, you have learned the first piece of information (marked as "a)") for all three topics. You can share those, but the rest will take you a little while to find out.

@Chrome

Ok your spirit attempts to pass through the barrier:

8d6.hits(5)=4

The barrier resists and succeeds (I am not going to post the roll because otherwise that lets you know the force of the barrier)

The spirit leaves, having failed its remote service.

Ok:

Chrome, do you want to summon another spirit and have it try again?

Mel, any other Matrix Actions?

I assume that Grease communicates what he has learned, to save you having to go back and find it, this is what he says:

1) The Triads:

a) There is a dispute between the Golden Triangle and the White Lotus, and the violence is continuing to escalate.

2) The Target (the guy, not the stuff)

a) Chen Huiquing? Never heard of him.


3) Any Street Rumors in the CAS, goings on, etc.

a) Getting harder and harder to find a Tin Man on the take with the new Sector Manager Bianca Cuthbertson.

I can post something to that effect IC if you wish.

I was holding off, waiting to see if Jack or Snap wanted to say anything, but let's just jump forward.

Jack back in on Hot Sim...ASDF still at 3,6,5,5. Let try to identify those two cameras that we're looking for.

Ok - so you'll go back in, enter the Host

Hack a mark on Camera 1
18d6.hits(5)=7

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=3

Snoop that camera footage
14d6.hits(5)=4

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=1

Not the camera you were looking for


Hack a mark on Camera 2
18d6.hits(5)=4

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=3

Snoop that camera footage
14d6.hits(5)=3

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=2


This is the camera over the east door to the house.


Hack a mark on Camera 3
18d6.hits(5)=3

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=0

Snoop that camera footage
14d6.hits(5)=3

It resists
6d6.hits(5)=2


This is the camera by the garage.

@Mel,

One thing - not a tremendous deal, but I am pretty sure that once you jack out, the feeds would immediately stop, because at that point all your Marks disappear, and you can't Snoop the cameras without a Mark on them.

So you may want to wait a minute just in case Jack or Snap want to ask you a question, or at least realize that if you do Jack out and they want to see that footage again, you'll have to do that all over again.

Jack, Snap - do you have any more info you need from Mel before she jacks out?

I think the main thing I was shooting for was trying to identify which devices go where so that Mel can hopefully spot and hack them more easily when we actually make the attempt. Jack would use the feeds to update the floor layouts with the likely location of the cameras based on viewing angle. That way, in case we get burned during the recon, we may be able to put together a route that would let Mel get a direct connect on the camera without being seen.

Copy that...adjusted IC.

No, this was informative in itself, and there's a limit to the number of spirits I'm willing to summon in sequence for remote services. I would do it only if it was really important, and this isn't. The drones will give us better recon anyway (hopefully). I'm just paying the cost of not being able to project like a full mage, and I accept that.

I'll post IC at some point today, to let the team know of what Snap found out.

Ok then - is there anything else I can help with?

I don't think so. It's challenging trying to think of everything we need to account for...

I guess once the drone finishes doing the laser microphone check of windows of rooms with lights on, I'd like to try to have it trace a route out to the closest fence line with a direct path to the east entry, using the Radio Signal Scanner to try to detect devices running silently along the path.

Understandable - look on the bright side, you have days to think about it in this format, as opposed to PnP where you would have to do it effectively on the fly

Ok - I made some Perception tests, and you have the following information:

Ground Floor:
Lights are on in basically every room.

Laser Microphone reveals
Living room - sounds like someone is watching a trid show

2nd Floor
Again, the lights are basically on in every room (the guy can afford to pay the electric bill I guess

Laser Microphone reveals
Bedroom immediately east of the Gallery Walkway - classical music playing
West Corner bedroom - someone speaking in Mandarin, voice sounds male, but young.

As far as tracing a path with the other one - I just want to point out that the range on the Bug Scanner (or Radio Signal Scanner whichever you want to call it) is 20 meters, and the range of a motion sensor is 25. So you would theoretically set off motion sensors if you pass near one (and you might not even be able to detect it).

Still want to do so?

Depends. I've always figured a Fly-Spy is probably supposed to be about the length of a forearm (it's a minidrone rather than a microdrone). Would motion sensors be calibrated to pick up something the size of a pigeon? I would think it wouldn't be so sensitive. Then again, I'm not living in the 2070s where drones are ubiquitous.

What do you think?

I think that due to the ubiquitous nature of drones, I don't see that it being calibrated that sensitive would be that unusual.

Especially if you think about the increase in the dog brain of relevant systems.

A sensor suite with a motion sensor and camera picks up movement and then trains the camera on it, snapping infrared/lowlight video - sending that back to a spider or guard's commlink to review.

This one I'm less sure about, but I wouldn't be too surprised if advances in computer technology would allow some form of image recognition to filter out squirrels or other small animals.

Remember, it isn't a done deal - even if there is such a sensor suite, it doesn't automatically detect the drone - I just don't want you to be caught unaware of something you probably would know.

That's not how we should typically go about it. It should be about how we want the game and setting to be like. A number of existing or almost-existing technology is absent from Shadowrun. What you describe about the squirrels is a good example of that.

In the game, I think Agents can do some of that stuff though.

ETA: How are we ever going to manage our B&E? This is a very well protected target we're going against.

Great. Timing wise- how long do I need to stick around the bar until our gear arrives? 5 hours from the conversation I just had? Would it be fruitful to continue talking with people there, or does it make sense to have Grease try some new places to dig up intel? I don't really know the zone, so I'm not sure how helpful that would be. I'll take my answer off the air, so to speak if you wanted to post the 3 pieces of info in keeping with moving the plot along tonight/tomorrow that's fine by me- otherwise, I may be on later to post to that effect.

-DrZ

I'm with you - I just think that a security system that wasn't designed to detect something as cheap and omnipresent as drones would fall into disuse pretty rapidly.



I have faith you guys will find a way.

The equipment isn't getting there until the full time has elapsed - which is 4 hours from Jack's conversation for his stuff, and 5 hours for the stuff you ordered. You've still got about an hour to go before you get the rest of the info I listed.

I'm not sure if Jack's plan is to head back to O'Roarkes or to go somewhere else first.

As far as going somewhere else, I think one issue is exactly what you said - Grease doesn't know the zone, so you may have to get creative unless you want to randomly pick somewhere and start asking people what they know about the Chinese Mafia

Since the FlySpys also have ultrasound, they can set them to passive to pick up Motion Detectors if they move slowly. They would need to get within 5 meters of the ultrasound field generated by the motion sensor but could stop and then attempt to spot the location of the device. It would at least indicate "hot zones" we would need to be aware of...

With that said, I'm not sure if Jack would really know all of that... it seems like we're basically going to have to go in mostly blind and hope Mel can hack all of the security devices we might encounter.

I also think it's all about the hacking on this one. If she can turn off sensors, open/close doors as we need and so on, it's really not too bad, but it's a lot to ask for. I think creating a diversion (or be prepared to create one) might be very useful.

Does anyone have the locksmith skill?

Unless Mel has it, we do not. We identified this as a potential problem last run, but I didn't want to spend 10K nuyen for a R1 ActiveSoft. We toyed with picking up an autopicker, but that would only help on old school locks. We're basically relying on Mel being able to hack them.