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WinterRat1
QUOTE
Oh you are soooooo leaving yourself open.


Like that comment didn't also? nyahnyah.gif
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Voorhees @ Mar 18 2008, 09:44 PM) *
After looking at a few pages of muscled male models for something that might have been Aziz, I have decided to go to the gym more.

QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 18 2008, 08:14 PM) *
Sheesh, now where do you find pictures of people who aren't hamming it up for the camera?


Even if I were tall, buff and super handsome there'd still be no way I could make it as a male model. There is absolutely no way I could grease up my hair and lift up the bottom of shirt to show off my abs all while maintaining that super serious "Come hither" face without bursting into laughter. Thanks to roughly 5 minutes looking for pics that might work for Cuervo I now completely understand why my sister used to get the giggles watching Victoria's Secret commercials.
Slipshade
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 18 2008, 08:55 PM) *
Like that comment didn't also? nyahnyah.gif



Shush! Vegas doesn't need your help. nyahnyah.gif
Neuntöter
funny, it only just now occurred to me that Will could be easily set up as an advocatus diaboli kind of character with the Adversary Mentor. To bad that Death has grown on me.

anyhow, i wondered if i could copy Shade's General Education Knowledgeskill for Will. And also if we are already supposed to finish up all the takes on the other Gangers and Gangs or if they are done as we actually meet them IC.
Whipstitch
I kinda envision Rat or any Mentor Spirit with a behavioral requirement as often playing devil's advocate. I mean, what good is having a li'l voice in your head if they don't disagree with you all the time?

Easily imagined scenario:

Cuervo's Internal Monologue: "Shit, mis hermanos are pinned down by that Raider with the SMG. If I sneak up on him though I can take him easy."
Rat: "Or maybe we can go get sandwiches. And not get shot. And come back later to strip the corpses."
Cuervo's Internal Monologue: "You're not helping."


* Added a picture and changed Cuervo's physical description to be more slimey pretty boy and less young warrior. Shouldn't really change anything though. Besides, I think this way rather fits his personality. Also made it clearer how my gear is accessorized.
Neuntöter
Death works for me.

*Chain-smoking Will*
Death:"You know, you should really quit those."
Will:"Why, will they be the death of me?" *smirks*
Death:"Awww, it won't be much fun if i give that away already, will it?"
Will: O_o *chokes on cigarette*
Slipshade
QUOTE (Neuntöter @ Mar 19 2008, 09:46 AM) *
And also if we are already supposed to finish up all the takes on the other Gangers and Gangs or if they are done as we actually meet them IC.


Yes, you need to complete your Questions and takes before you start in the game. You are also expected to update your takes as your character evolves and interacts with everyone.

I did the takes for Baby from her point of view as if she had been in the gang for a few months and had time to interact with everyone. Not saying you need to do the same, but you do have to fill out all of your takes (gang members and other gangs) before you can start in IC.
Eyeless Blond
Well, what if you have no idea until you actually meet them? I mean, first impressions are everything in this sort of business.
Slipshade
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 19 2008, 11:37 AM) *
Well, what if you have no idea until you actually meet them? I mean, first impressions are everything in this sort of business.


If your take changes after you meet someone then modify it at that point. Takes are not set in stone.
Dantic
Anyone taking a look at Twiggs for final again?
Slipshade
QUOTE (Dantic @ Mar 19 2008, 02:24 PM) *
Anyone taking a look at Twiggs for final again?


Sorry Dantic I haven't yet. I am pushing a deadline at work this week and I have the In-Laws coming in on Friday. I have barely been able to keep up with you guys on this thread. smile.gif
Whipstitch
I'm finally done tinkering away for reals now, promise. For my own good I will now be stepping away from the wiki for the rest of the week. On the upside, I think I've got the wiki commands down pretty good now. embarrassed.gif

Went with a novacoke addiction as my final 5 point flaw instead of Astral Beacon (it just felt like too shady of a choice, even if it did give your opponents a bonus when assensing you for magical potential). Novacoke just made too much sense since the LoCoS specialized in it. I kinda wanted deepweed instead, but apparently the stuff is like 400 nuyen a hit, which is pretty ridiculous in terms of Barren's economics.
Fresno Bob
I put up a take for Baby, Cuervo, and Twiggs for those who are interested.
Slipshade
QUOTE (Voorhees @ Mar 19 2008, 11:47 PM) *
I put up a take for Baby, Cuervo, and Twiggs for those who are interested.


I'm always interested in peoples takes. smile.gif
cREbralFIX
I'm not sure what to do on the wiki...do you want Moe's info here in posts or somewhere else? I use the background questions on the other PC sheets.
Vegas
cREbralFIX

We're kinda waiting on you to show us more about Moe before we start building you pages on the wiki. You had mentioned last weekend your plans to work on him, but we hadn't seen anything from you since then.

Can you give us some more of his history/background and give us a better "feel" for the character?

Thanks!
cREbralFIX
Additional details on Moe:

[ Spoiler ]
Fresno Bob
Do you think you could spoiler tag that to keep people from scrolling down? Or just put it on the wiki and link to it?
Slipshade
Spoiler would be good. He doesn't have a wiki page yet.
Vegas
QUOTE (Voorhees @ Mar 20 2008, 05:45 PM) *
Do you think you could spoiler tag that to keep people from scrolling down? Or just put it on the wiki and link to it?


He can't put it up on the wiki because he's not approved... not yet at least.

cREbralFIX

Can you toss that big background post behind spoiler tags pretty please? We'll still read it I promise. One thing of note as I was breezing through it on a first pass, some of the things you've made "TBD" are pretty important (Where he grew up, neighborhood, appearance) those will need to be fleshed out sooner as opposed to later.

I'll sit down and digest him tonight.

Dantic + Whip

You guys are also both on my radar to be point counted and first checked tonight too smile.gif
Dantic
QUOTE (cREbralFIX @ Mar 11 2008, 10:21 PM) *
2) Moe "<street name TBD>"

Ork

Age <Ork military age + 3> (17-19ish)

Unfortunately, he also tended be insubordinate and was mustered out of service after only two years past Boot Camp. It is for this reason he has a SIN, though the dishonorable discharge shows up on his record.

(No magic, no cyber, no weird stuff, not even really a bad attitude.)


The 30 questions BG isn't realy what the GM's are looking for here, speaking for myself and my char gen so-far, by all means I am no expert as to what is wanted here. That being said, You should probably flesh out your concept more, by posting here about "Moe" personality quirks, physical description, personal motovations (ex. Why he runs with a gang, what he gets out of gang life, is he a stone cold killer or just a survivor). Keep in mind these are gangers not just underpowered shadowruners, I had to keep reminding myself of that while I developed my character, even though I started my concept, with this in mind, as I was statting him, I fell into old habits of trying to "fit" the character into a role for the "team". Any Details you can think of, put it here, they will ask you for more detail continualy, so get as much in now as you can, and by all means, look at The Wiki Roster, to see what other members have for descriptions, and the Background Story. Some of the stories would be several pages of printed or written text. Hope this helps. grinbig.gif
Dantic
QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 20 2008, 08:02 PM) *
Dantic + Whip

You guys are also both on my radar to be point counted and first checked tonight too smile.gif


Whoot, do a little dance, make a little love... or if you're Twiggs, love yourself, and get down tonight. grinbig.gif
Slipshade
QUOTE (Dantic @ Mar 20 2008, 04:03 PM) *
The 30 questions BG isn't realy what the GM's are looking for here, speaking for myself and my char gen so-far, by all means I am no expert as to what is wanted here. That being said, You should probably flesh out your concept more, by posting here about "Moe" personality quirks, physical description, personal motovations (ex. Why he runs with a gang, what he gets out of gang life, is he a stone cold killer or just a survivor). Keep in mind these are gangers not just underpowered shadowruners, I had to keep reminding myself of that while I developed my character, even though I started my concept, with this in mind, as I was statting him, I fell into old habits of trying to "fit" the character into a role for the "team". Any Details you can think of, put it here, they will ask you for more detail continualy, so get as much in now as you can, and by all means, look at The Wiki Roster, to see what other members have for descriptions, and the Background Story. Some of the stories would be several pages of printed or written text. Hope this helps. grinbig.gif


Dantic - Yeah that is all true. We expect a lot of background and personality information.

I will be doing a follow up check on both yours and whips stats tomorrow. Though be ready to hear....we need you to flesh out <insert character name here>'s background a little more...or a lot more. smile.gif
WinterRat1
QUOTE
Some of the stories would be several pages of printed or written text.


Red October from Shade's Journal and the opening of Black November are about 25 pages long, just to give you an idea of what we mean when we say 'thorough'. biggrin.gif

(Don't worry, we don't expect your character BG's to be that long though. My point is simply that background matters a lot in this game, so any time you put into it up front is less time you have to put into it later. smile.gif)
Vegas
Dantic + Whipstitch

Here's my first thoughts on a once-over on your characters biggrin.gif

Cuervo:
He's pretty much good to go. Stats and gear check fine and you've got the takes done for all the characters with enough info up to write anything about them and the background seems pretty solid.

Twiggs:
Stats check fine, takes are done. By my count (and yes I counted twice) you've got $400 more to spend in gear. My only concern is in parts of Twiggs' background. There are a lot of one-liner answers there that I would LOVE to see fleshed out to get a better feel for how Twiggs operates. Things like questions 8 and 9 about where he got his skills and gear... the possibilities of grand stories of just how he stole something out from right under the owner's nose and the like... How did he scrounge and steal his gear, it makes for an interesting read if there's more there. Same for his thoughts on Magic... he just think's it's "Wiz" and that's it? biggrin.gif

Other than that I think you guys are pretty good to go... pending a second look over by Slip and the final review when WR's ready and Dantic, you get the few things straightened out we'll get WR to give you the final once over too smile.gif

Thanks guys for all your work, it shows and we appreciate it!
Dantic
QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 20 2008, 09:19 PM) *
Dantic + Whipstitch

Twiggs:
Stats check fine, takes are done. By my count (and yes I counted twice) you've got $400 more to spend in gear. My only concern is in parts of Twiggs' background. There are a lot of one-liner answers there that I would LOVE to see fleshed out to get a better feel for how Twiggs operates. Things like questions 8 and 9 about where he got his skills and gear... the possibilities of grand stories of just how he stole something out from right under the owner's nose and the like... How did he scrounge and steal his gear, it makes for an interesting read if there's more there. Same for his thoughts on Magic... he just think's it's "Wiz" and that's it? biggrin.gif

Thanks guys for all your work, it shows and we appreciate it!


I'll work on detailing some of the questions more, but I have to stand by my magic takes, Wiz stuff I guess, sums it up realy well, that's exactly what he thinks, his exposure to magic has been limited to say the least, it's subject to change of course, but for now, yeah. grinbig.gif
Eyeless Blond
Should we bother building our contacts? And, if we do, do they follow the same BP/Availability limits?

And does anyone have a good BTL dealer that I can pilfer? smile.gif
Dantic
Hey! I've got 400 more nuyen.gif to spend rotfl.gif
WinterRat1
QUOTE
I'll work on detailing some of the questions more, but I have to stand by my magic takes, Wiz stuff I guess, sums it up realy well, that's exactly what he thinks, his exposure to magic has been limited to say the least, it's subject to change of course, but for now, yeah.


Why is magic wiz? What in particular does he think is wiz about it, magic is quite diverse after all.

Does he say 'wiz' in an enthusastic way, or in a 'blah, I don't really care' kind of way?

If his exposure to magic is limited, does he even know what it can really do, or only what he thinks it can do because he saw it on the trid?

Describe his exposure to magic, however limited and the effect it had on him. If he has limited exposure yet thinks it's wiz, it must have made an impression. If he really hasn't had much exposure but thinks it's wiz anyway for no real reason, that also reveals something about his character and personality.

You don't have to answer all the above questions, they're ideas to get you started.

What they should demonstrate, however, is just saying magic is 'wiz' is like saying you think a particular girl is 'cool'. Well...what does that mean exactly? It could have any number of meanings for any number of reasons, in fact so many that your answer essentially is a non-answer. That is why Vegas is asking for more detail. A couple sentences to a paragraph or so will suffice, but it has to actually tell us something, which your current answer does not.

Does that make sense?

QUOTE
Should we bother building our contacts? And, if we do, do they follow the same BP/Availability limits?


If you want contacts for your character, why would you not build them?

If you don't want contacts for your character, then obviously you don't have to build them.

If you do build contacts, they have certain BP/Availability limits specified on the wiki.
Dantic
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 20 2008, 10:29 PM) *
Why is magic wiz? What in particular does he think is wiz about it, magic is quite diverse after all.

Does he say 'wiz' in an enthusastic way, or in a 'blah, I don't really care' kind of way?

He never said magic is wiz. It said, Magic ? Wiz stuff I guess ? He has no real exposure to magic. it is meant to be flippant and short, it conveys exactly what he thinks on the subject, he Guesses it is wiz stuff, he doesn't actually know. I really don't understand why this one question is such a sticking point, I don't want to beat a dead horse (had enough of that) or be difficult, it's just how I picture him responding to such a question, he is a notorius smartass after all, so if there is ever any doubt as to what kind of way Twiggs would say anything, just go with sarcasm. I'll try and explain it further, but I'd realy rather it remain as was. question.gif
Slipshade
Dantic - Maybe this will help a bit.

When I did Baby's takes and background I had some of those same issues. So what I did is give Baby's short one line answer and then dropped in a break line and just talked about it like I would normally describe in.

Example:

6. What are your character’s physical quirks?

“Do you think I look fat?�

Baby is pretty short and at first look you wouldn’t place her as a gang member. Maybe one of their little sisters or girlfriends. Her slightly round face and cheeks make her look soft. Something that she has had to prove over and over again that she is not. It may be part of the reason she took such a risky job in the gang, to prove that she has edge like the rest.


So in essence you could write it something like:

"It's wiz stuff I guess."

Twigg has never been around magic and only knows it by what he sees on the trids. I thinks that it would be cool to be able to sling spells and all, but since he can't he really doesn't much care. If he really saw someone sling a fireball it would probably scare the crap out of him..etc...etc....


Does that help?
Dantic
QUOTE (Slipshade @ Mar 20 2008, 11:15 PM) *
Dantic - Maybe this will help a bit.

When I did Baby's takes and background I had some of those same issues. So what I did is give Baby's short one line answer and then dropped in a break line and just talked about it like I would normally describe in.

Example:

6. What are your character’s physical quirks?

“Do you think I look fat?�

Baby is pretty short and at first look you wouldn’t place her as a gang member. Maybe one of their little sisters or girlfriends. Her slightly round face and cheeks make her look soft. Something that she has had to prove over and over again that she is not. It may be part of the reason she took such a risky job in the gang, to prove that she has edge like the rest.

Ok, thanks, good idea, I can do that. grinbig.gif
Slipshade
Cool. Really all the things you have been using to justify your one liner is what you should be adding. smile.gif

If you are in need of inspiration take a look at what others have done on the wiki.
Eyeless Blond
Can I have it? biggrin.gif

Re: enemies. How do we run these? SR4 doesn't force you to take enemies based on resource level (which IMO was always a stupid rule); do we necessarily need to start with specific enemies, especially ones we don't get BP for?
WinterRat1
Dantic - In fairness to you, I didn't actually read your answer, I was simply whipping out a quick reply during a break to try and give you a different perspective on it. If Slipshade succeeded where I failed...well great!
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 20 2008, 08:19 PM) *
Cuervo:
He's pretty much good to go. Stats and gear check fine and you've got the takes done for all the characters with enough info up to write anything about them and the background seems pretty solid.


Sounds like a good sign, although I do have one last li'l request to make: I don't suppose I could swap 1 point of Strength to Body and switch the fancy jacket to an Armored Jacket and 10 more hits of novacoke, could I? (the costs match up exactly the same and I only bought the Victory Globetrotter 'cuz I couldn't think of anywhere else to blow the cred). I forgot that you round Strength up when determining melee damage (I'm notorious for forgetting this fact while GMing too; my players find it really convenient when suddenly a lot of my NPC trolls turn out not to hit so hard after all ohplease.gif ). Besides, I imagine Cuervo as more fit and supernaturally healthy than muscular anyway, I was just loathe to lose that extra point of damage. Just give me the word and I'll happily do it myself, and after that I swear I'll be done tinkering! I've just been rather excited at the prospect of getting in the game so it's been tough to leave things alone.

If ya guys don't wanna see any changes this late in the game that's cool too though. I may be an incorrigible tinkerer, but I can always console myself with the idea of maybe someday scrounging up the resources to go up a Magic point and then burning it on Muscle Replacements biggrin.gif.
Spike
I found the wiki first so I'm waiting on a provisional acceptance of my Notional Character, Maus from PM's.

Since I doubt He'll fly I'm reluctant to post anything concrete that might require extensive reworking later. I'm a pessimist, I know.

Still, I guess I should open up (Hi, my name is Spike and I'm a....) a bit and post the idea:

[ Spoiler ]
Eyeless Blond
Er, use [ SPOILER ] tags, Spike. Actually type them in; the board for some reason likes to use that blackout stuff if you don't.

Oh, and you may want to reconsider the Vory contact. The early stuff, sure, but the part where he is a part-time enforcer? If the guy's good enough for the Vory, he's probably too good for this gang. smile.gif


Okay, Drip's pretty much ready. The 30qs are up, the charsheet is up, the gear... isn't pretty, but it's all there. GMs may want to take note, there are a few surprises in there, especially:

the Genecrafted Edge and the Used vehicle modifier. Contact me if there's a problem.

I'll pretty everything up and do some more sanity checks this weekend.
Bearclaw
OK, my character sheet is mostly up. I'm working on the thirty now. Any feed back is appreciated and will be accepted in the spirit it's offered biggrin.gif

I really need help with the contacts. I didn't want to flesh them out at all, so you guys can fit them into THIS world.
Vegas
Bearclaw

My best advice to you is do SOMETHING with your contacts. Because if the GM gets the "privilege" to flesh them out.. you might not like the end result. Ok, you will MOST likely not like the end result smile.gif

I'll take a peek, but I'm just giving you a heads up smile.gif

EDIT: ok, the ones you didn't flesh out are the BTL suppliers, which WR said he'd more or less take care of the BIG details, but you can still give "life" to them by giving them a name/street name, quirks, etc. And it won't hurt to add more details to the guys you did come up with. The more you do, the less we can screw you over on vegm.gif
WinterRat1
QUOTE
I really need help with the contacts. I didn't want to flesh them out at all, so you guys can fit them into THIS world.


QUOTE
My best advice to you is do SOMETHING with your contacts. Because if the GM gets the "privilege" to flesh them out.. you might not like the end result. Ok, you will MOST likely not like the end result


QUOTE
EDIT: ok, the ones you didn't flesh out are the BTL suppliers, which WR said he'd more or less take care of the BIG details, but you can still give "life" to them by giving them a name/street name, quirks, etc. And it won't hurt to add more details to the guys you did come up with. The more you do, the less we can screw you over on


If it’s something I said I would flesh out (e.g. the BTL suppliers) then you have no need to worry. Vegas is correct though, at a minimum you should at least have a name/street name. I can live without the fluff quirks, but if you can give me something to help clarify your picture of them in my head, that would be really helpful too.

If it’s something I did not say I would flesh out (e.g. random prostitute; I’m making this up, I didn’t actually look to see whoever you or anyone else didn’t flesh out yet), and you’re just trying to make me do all the work, given how utterly swamped I am, I absolutely GUARANTEE you will not like the end result. You’d probably be better off just flushing your BP down the toilet, because at least that way they won’t actually hurt you, unlike a contact you’ve spent BP for but decided to make me do all the work on…

Does that clarify my position? smile.gif
Eyeless Blond
In other words, quick! Look for someone else's contact and use him/her too! smile.gif
Whipstitch
Yeah, there's an npc page on the gutter wiki that could be rather helpful if you're really pressed for details. That's where I found Vincente Bernanke, and he just made too much sense not to use, since he'd be useful without having an over-the-top Connection rating. I just kinda regret I didn't have the bps leftover to buy up enough loyalty to try converting him to something of a surrogate father figure, which would be kinda fun 'cuz he sounds like an otherwise kinda creepy guy who just sticks to his work. I noticed Adam didn't put down a street or anything for where Bernanke's basement shop would be located though. I just kinda assumed it'd be somewhere fairly near Touristville because owning a business anywhere else is kind of a dicey proposition, but it'd be nice to know the details. I'd hate to have a contact that turns out to be buried deep in the Black Hole. biggrin.gif

Plus, as far as our Lawyer Mage is concerned, I think it'd be borderline criminal if he didn't take Max Stuckie as a contact, since he apparently is just dying to work on actual suits for once. Seriously, I don't even care if you have to give the Mage some freebie bps. Throw that poor ol' tailor a bone.
Neuntöter
holy hell, i didn't even notice that guy. I was planning on not giving Will any contacts since he hasn't really mingled with the street crowd so far (apart from his late street kid posse) and hasn't dared to contact anyone from his former life, but now i am almost compelled to dig up some Bps somewhere.
Spike
I tried typing [spoiler} but for some reason the tags, they did nothing. Maybe a typo.

As for the Vory bit: As I imagine it, he doesn't really 'work' for the vory directly. He's just, to them, one of the many faceless muscles that they use for grunt work. Technically, he only works for a guy who happens to be a Vory, not actually the vory themselves, and that only because originally his gang had him doing their vory scut work for them, not out of any inate ability.

Though, really, I only put that there because I was hard pressed to fill out his contacts. I usually don't think about 'street level' much so its a nice change. How closely the gangs and the OC syndicates work is something I'd need to hear more about from the GMs, I think the book is rather vague on the subject.

I'll go back and edit the tags again. Seems like he's getting a pretty heavy make-over on the rules side, so I'm glad I left out important identifiers that would have been... embarrassing to have to retcon.


EDIT::: changed due to accidental discovery of how to make spoilers work...
Slipshade
Spike - 1st Tier gangs can have contacts with the syndicates, but the gang you would be joining would be 3rd Tier. So the syndicates don't even look at us. Really it helps to think of this game as being the lowest of the low. You wouldn't work for a guy in the vory. You would be working for the friend, of the guy, of the guy, of the guy that thinks he works for the vory. Pretty much any contacts that are directly or even close to directly syndicate connected will be shot down.


Dantic - I looked over your number as well and they look good and jive with what Vegas found. We will past it on up the ladder to WR to look at.
Whipstitch
Background wise, with Maus you may wanna make him a former Brickhouse Boy, since I think they were more involved in chopping rides than the LoCoS, who are really more of an ethnic niche gang specializing in Novacoke than anything. Of course, the problem there is that the other Brickhouse PCs appear to be on the Inactive list, but I'm there's ways of working with that too. Just a suggestion. Such things are hardly my call. biggrin.gif
Spike
I'll have to look again, I thought the BBs were into RIDING rides... though since I seem to have an extra 50+ points to spend now, picking up a piloting skill isn't out of the question either.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.


EDIT::: You're right. Don't know how I missed that utterly. I suspect I got caught up in looking for gangs that both had active members and were appropriate across the spectrum. I'll make a note to change it on submission once the kinks are worked out.
Neuntöter
another quick question, is there any chance that we can get more than the usual 35 bp points worth in negative qualities?
Vegas
QUOTE (Neuntöter @ Mar 21 2008, 02:36 PM) *
another quick question, is there any chance that we can get more than the usual 35 bp points worth in negative qualities?



Nope, 35's the max for Negative qualities. You can freely take MORE negative qualities if you wish, but they will NOT carry a points bonus for doing so.
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